SALT LAKE CITY — Utah Sen. Mitt Romney opened up about China, the Republican Party, and whether President Donald Trump is an honorable man in a candid TV interview Sunday evening.

From his home outside of Salt Lake City, the senator sat down with Axios co-founder and executive editor Mike Allen in an interview on “Axios on HBO,” which aired Sunday evening. Romney didn’t shy away from talking about President Trump, saying the president was wrong to ask China to investigate the son of former vice president and current Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden.

“Going on TV and saying ‘China, will you investigate my political opponent?’ is wrong, it’s a mistake,” Romney told Allen during the interview. “It was shocking, in my opinion, for the president to do so and a mistake for him to do so.

“I can’t imagine coming to a different point of view,” he continued. “We certainly can’t have presidents asking foreign countries to provide something of political value. That is, after all, against the law.”

Romney said one senator can't convince other senators on a possible impeachment of President Trump, and added that he’d like to know the full background of all those involved in communications with Ukraine.

“What was said to them? What the intent was in the part of the president, the administration, with regards to Ukraine," he said. "I just want to get as much information as we can, make an assessment consistent with the law and the constitution.”

Trump and the Republican Party

When asked what has happened to the Republican Party, Romney said other Republicans have followed Trump’s lead, calling the president “the captain of the team.” Romney acknowledged that he has agreed with most of what Trump has done with tax policy and regulatory policy.

“I’ll call myself a bit of a renegade Republican,” Romney told Allen in the interview. “So I believe that deficits matter and we need to tackle the deficits.”

Allen countered, saying those political stances are “classic Republican,” to which Romney replied: “It may be classic Republican, but today, it’s a renegade Republican. I believe that deficits matter. I believe that debt matters.”

Seemingly talking about Trump, Romney added that “character counts” when it comes to being in a position of leadership. “A leader not only shapes policy, but also shapes the character of the enterprise that they lead,” he said.

“I vote with the president about 80% of the time,” he continued. “But I think in some of the things that he has said or done, that he has detracted from the mission of a leader in shaping the character of the country in a positive way.”

Over the past few years, Trump and Romney have gone back and forth on varying issues. Earlier this month, Romney said on Twitter that President Trump’s appeals to Ukraine and China to investigate his chief Democratic rival appear to be not only “brazen and unprecedented,” but also “wrong and appalling.”

Trump lashed out at the senator the next day on Twitter, saying, among other things, that Romney “never knew how to win.” Allen asked Romney what it felt like when President Trump said Romney "choked like a dog" in the 2012 presidential elect, the senator said being criticized "goes with the territory."

“If I worried about criticism, I’d be in the wrong job,” he said.

Allen then mentioned Trump's call for Romney’s impeachment, to which Romney laughed off and said: “Fortunately, I don’t think I can be impeached.”

“Look, I’ve been tough on the president, so he’s going to whack me back,” he added.

Romney said he's most critical of Trump in matters that “were divisive” and “appeared to be appealing to racism or misogyny.”

“Those are the kinds of things, I think, that have been most harmful long term to the foundation of America’s virtuous character,” he said.

Allen asked why more Republicans weren't publicly critical of Trump; Romney said there were two reasons: the desire to stay in power and that Republicans believe in any conservative in office.

“One reason is that we want to stay in power,” he said. “But there’s another reason which is more elevated, and that is people genuinely believe, as I do, that conservative principles are better for our country and for the working people of our country than liberal principles. And that if Elizabeth Warren were to become president, for instance, or if we were to lose the Senate, that it would not be good for the American people.

"So they don’t want to go out and criticize the leader of our party because they feel that might have the consequence of hurting our country longer term.”

China

Romney took aim at China in the interview and said the country is doing “bad stuff.”

“That, for me, is the single most important thing we can do long term: dealing with China and developing a strategy to deal with China,” he said. “We (America) don’t have a (strategy), China has a strategy. We just play it day by day.”

Romney added that one of the ways the United States stands up to China is by linking arms with its friends and allies; instead, “we’re pushing our friends away.”

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Syria

Romney, who is part of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he found out on Twitter the U.S. was pulling out of northern Syria. Thursday, Romney ripped the Trump administration’s decision to pull troops out of the area and said the decision to “abandon the Kurds violates one of our most sacred duties.”

“What we have done to the Kurds will stand as a bloodstain in the annals of American history,” Romney said on the Senate floor Thursday. “There are broad strategic implications of our decision as well. Iranian and Russian interests in the Middle East have been advanced by our decision."

Who is an ‘honorable man’ to Romney?

Allen asked Romney whether former President Barack Obama, Biden and Trump were honorable men. About Obama, he said, “I believe he is an honorable man. A good family man. He made a lot of mistakes. Most presidents do.”

The senator said he doesn’t know Biden well, but from his interactions with him, he seemed to be a man of honor.

Romney, though, couldn't give a firm answer about Trump.

“I know where you were going, but I’m not going to let you catch me in a corner,” Romney said. “He has elements, I’m sure, of honor in his life. And there’s things that I think are not honorable. And I mention that because of the payment to a porn star for sexual relations outside of marriage. Look, I’m one of those who believes that we have a responsibility to be honorable and faithful to our wives, and the president made a failing in that regard.”

Allen then asked whether Romney would challenge Trump for the 2020 Republican nomination, to which Romney replied: "I’m not going to run against President Trump. That would be a fool’s errand, I’m afraid, on my part. I’ve run twice before and lost, so I’m not going to do it again.

“With regards to speeches, we’ll see what the future holds.”

In September, Romney said he will not endorse any candidate in the 2020 presidential election.

Contributing: Associated Press

Xoel Càrdenas is the Breaking News Editor at KSL.com. He co-hosts KSL Cafecito, the podcast that talks all things culture.

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