May 8: U.S. debt ceiling; bin Laden's death; Redistricting

In this Sunday Edition, KSL's Bruce Lindsay discusses the United States debt ceiling with Congressman Jason Chaffetz, the release of information following bin Laden's death with military subject matter expert Dodge Billingsley, and redistricting in Utah with Senator Michael Waddoups and Represent Me Utah vice chair Susan Connor.

Segment 1: Debt ceiling

Negotiations over how to raise the federal debt ceiling got underway three days ago as Congressional Republicans and Democrats began meeting in talks chaired by Vice President Joe Biden.

When the current limit is reached a week from tomorrow, the government will need to find $125 billion each month to pay its bills.

The U.S. Treasury expects it can get by with smoke and mirrors until early August. Congressman Jason Chaffetz serves as a member of the House Committee on the Budget.

The debt ceiling is like the nation's credit card limit. That debt comes from spending decisions made in the past. Not from spending decisions to be made in the future.

"We've got to remember that about 95 percent of our GDP is now in debt. We can no longer afford it," says Chaffetz. "We're paying over $600 million a day in interest on that debt. We have to make some systemic changes, we just can't afford it. We've got to cut up that credit card and start going a different direction. There are those of us that understand we probably will have to raise the debt ceiling but we have to change the trajectory -- we can't just keep adding to the debt indefinitely."

He continued, "We can't keep punting this down the road. One of the frustrations, I'm fairly new to Congress, when I went there is they just keep punting this down the road. We keep raising the debt ceiling, raising the debt ceiling. It's always an election year so there's always an excuse not to do it. But there are those of us that are new saying, 'No, we're not going to do that anymore.' And if we're going to have to tie this to a balanced budget amendment or something serious where we actually change the trajectory, then we're going to need to use this deadline in order to get to that point."

Chaffetz likes the idea of tying it to a balanced budget amendment.

"Congress has shown through the years, on both sides of the aisle that they have no discipline in order to actually balance the budget. So yes, I think we're going to have to have a dramatic change like a balanced budget amendment," Chaffetz says.

But a balanced budget amendment is not the only option. Chaffetz wants to approach it in such a way to prevent tax increases.

"I think we are borrowing, taxing and spending too much money already," explains Chaffetz. "We're spending about 25 cents out of every dollar that is spent in this country is spent by the federal government. So if you can tie it to some spending limits and get those below 20 percent that's something I can support. It doesn't have to be in a balanced budget amendment."

Segment 2: Information of Bin Laden's death

A week ago President Obama stunned the world with the announcement that a Navy SEAL team had killed Osama bin Laden.

Bin Laden's death is now at the forefront of the war over message.

For the United States, it's a huge boost to morale, although the facts have shifted slightly. For al-Qaida, it's a call to action and may re-energize their movement.

Dodge Billinglsey, a subject matter expert for the military, teaches soldiers about information operations and counterinsurgency before they deploy to Afghanistan and Iraq.

"I think the White House is in a really tough spot," says Billingsley. "This is clearly the biggest story since 9-11, and kind of in a way will bring 9-11 to conclusion, though it won't be the actual conclusion. The war on terror will continue. They're in a tough spot. A few things they did right, we've learned over the last 10 years, you've got to get your message out. You've got to be first. You don't want the ISI or al-Qaida or, not even our enemies necessarily, other outlets to break a story as major as this. You want to break this story first. The problem with breaking a story first is that you in no way are going to have all those details correct, especially in war reporting, where it is just a given the first reports are always wrong. I was a little surprised in how in depth they went, considering how much they have had to back track and get some of the points right. They could have certainly just said they had a major operation and we killed bin Laden and that's it."

Billingsley does not think there will be any long-term consequences from the initial incorrect information.

"I think in reality information operations are very difficult to measure immediate success and failure because I think people are predisposed to believe what they want to believe. In other words, for America this is a huge rallying point."

Segment 3: Redistricting committee

Utah's redistricting committee began work on April 25. Sen. Michael Waddoups, R-Taylorsville, sits on the committee and Susan Connor, vice chair of Represent Me Utah, a group critical of the process, discuss redistricting in Utah.

During the previous redistricting efforts in 2001, the Utah Legislature received criticism for political maneuvering. Then-Sen. Bob Bennett called it the worst case of gerrymandering he had ever seen.

Waddoups says this year's efforts will be fair, as was the process in 2001.

"Most states have lawsuits over how the districts are drawn. Utah has never done that because we are fair, we try to make it open to the public and we make it a process where the Democrats, the Republicans and the Independents can all participate," says Waddoups. "This year we are going even further, we've got new software coming that will allow the public, whether they are affiliated with a party or not, to actually draw maps and submit them to Legislature for review and perhaps adoption."

He explains the process is more complicated than the public often realizes.

Represent Me Utah would favor redistricting by an independent committee. Connor says 13 states have independent committees and it would produce a better result.

"It takes out the politics," Connor says. "You have people from different community groups and they have principles that they need to follow to do the redistricting, but it's not the politicians themselves picking their voters. It's representatives from many aspects of the community who are picking their representatives and that's the way it should be."

According to Waddoups, the legislative committee operates under the same principles as an independent body.

"She talks about these regulations, these principles being in place. We actually put those principles in place, here in Utah, and we do adhere to them," Waddoups explains. "There is no such thing as an independent commission. Everyone has a conflict of interest. You have one, I have one, she has one. Everyone has a constituency that they want to make sure is treated fairly."

"We can't rule out all conflicts of interest," counters Connor. "But we are eliminating the biggest conflict of interest which is having a legislator being able to actually form his own district."

The most important guideline, according to Waddoups, is "one man, one vote."

"After that you get down to compactness, contiguous districts. We don't want to have non-connected areas. And then you get down to communities of interest," he says.

Connor says many people are skeptical of promises of fairness after 2001.

"Even though we have promises that this will be done fairly and that we will not be gerrymandering this time, it is at this point hard for many people in the community to trust that because we've seen issues that lack transparency, just in the last few months coming out of the Legislature," Connor explains.