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SALT LAKE CITY -- Two detectives put their own boss on the spot Thursday at a legislative hearing on pension reform.
Ogden Police Chief Jon Greiner, who defends and practices double-dipping -- the perfectly legal procedure of hiring retired public employees so they can draw both a salary and a pension -- is also a state lawmaker in the middle of a big battle that has tens of thousands of public employees worried about their future.
Reforming the double-dip system is just one of many things lawmakers are considering as they wrestle with the long-term financial health of the pension system.
The context for Thursday's battle is that the economic meltdown battered public employee pension funds across the country by reducing the value of their investments.
Utah lawmakers are facing tough decisions, like how to make sure -- long term -- that enough money comes in to finance what's being paid out to retirees.
The legislative hearing was packed with police officers, teachers and other public employees plenty worried about pension reform. They're afraid benefits they've sacrificed for could be undermined if the legislature moves too swiftly.
"We're concerned about making rapid changes that could have unintended long-term consequences," Christie Scribner, of the Fraternal Order of Police, told the lawmakers.
Jan Johnson, of the Utah Alliance of Government Employees, said, "We would just encourage you to take these peoples' lives into consideration."
They fear that pension cuts might undermine promises that drew many to the job in the first place.
Kory Holdaway, of the Utah Education Association, testified, saying, "Often teachers or public employees have entered this profession realizing that the salary hasn't been great."
That thought was echoed by the hearing chairman, Rep. Melvin Brown of Coalville.
"Our public employees have been willing to give up salary increases for benefits," Brown said. "And it's not their fault the economy went upside down."
A second factor is a state law unique to Utah: when retirees are rehired as public employees, their employer is required to make payments to their personal 401(k) account instead of into the pension fund. Overall, auditors found the program has reduced the pension fund by 401 million dollars over the last eight years. They predict it will cost the state another 897 million in the next ten years.
"When you hire somebody new, you have an additional cost, by the way, for training," said Michael Galieti, of the Utah Retirement System Membership Council.
Greiner -- who is a lawmaker, a police chief and an unapologetic double-dipper himself -- said he deliberately seeks out retirees from other police departments.
"I already have a known commodity," Greiner said. "I know they've been trained. I already know what their background is. I can talk to people who have worked with them."
But two of Greiner's detectives put him on the spot by testifying about double-dipping in front of the legislative committee he sits on. They accused Greiner of systematically reserving jobs for retiring lieutenants, freezing out sergeants qualified to move up.
"Laws were violated," said Ogden police Detective Brian Eynon, "both with the Utah Retirement System, the civil service code and the Ogden Police Department's city code."
Greiner vigorously disputed the detective's interpretation.
"Nothing from my office was ever done without running it through the legal system, the city attorney; nothing," he said.
Are the detectives worried about taking on the boss in such a public fashion?
"It doesn't cause me concern because he's a fair guy, and he's my chief," Eynon said. "Today he had the senator hat on, and tomorrow he'll have the chief hat on."
The lawmakers' comments in the hearing suggested they plan to move cautiously on reform.
The main thing the public employee groups asked for is time. They want to study reform proposals carefully instead of acting quickly during tough economic times.
E-mail: jhollenhorst@ksl.com
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