In this Sunday Edition, KSL's Bruce Lindsay explores perceptions on immigration with an economist, a pollster and reporters with KSL and the Deseret News. Utahns have strong feelings on the issue of immigration, and this program explores the reasons.

The news this week has been filled with headlines about immigration. Utah's Department of Workforce Services terminated two employees as the source of that infamous list outing purported illegal immigrants.

Gov. Herbert on Tuesday convened an immigration summit with dozens of government and community leaders to look for some common ground in the immigration policy debate. The Obama administration went to court Thursday to argue for a preliminary injunction to block Arizona's controversial immigration law from taking effect this week.

Deseret News:

The myths and realities of illegal immigration

The Deseret News sets out to confirm or debunk what's being said about illegal immigration.

KSL released the findings of a comprehensive Dan Jones & Associates survey of Utahns' attitudes toward illegal immigration. And all week long, KSL has been trying to take a broad look at the situation in a series of reports called, "The Dream Divided."

Segment 1

Sunday Edition welcomes Pam Perlich, senior research economist at the University of Utah, and Dianne Meppen, pollster from Dan Jones & Associates, to discuss Utah's attitudes toward illegal immigration.

"This is one of the most interesting surveys we have ever done," says Meppen of the KSL/Dan Jones & Associates survey on perceptions of illegal immigrants. She says more people answered the questions than ever before.

People wanted to give their opinion. "Everyone wanted to justify their response and explain their response," explains Meppen.

According to Meppen, the survey found 81 percent of Utahns say they feel the impact of illegal immigration in the areas of police protection, public education and medical care. Also, 77 percent feel Utah's business and economy is impacted.

These views were likely affected by the recession, says Perlich because "a lot of this has to with the fact that we have lost a lot of jobs here in Utah."

She goes on to explain, "People are making the classic correlation/causation error. The recession was not caused by immigrants."

"The literature is very definitive that immigrants increase production, increase productivity, increase creativity, and in this case because people are coming from so many different source regions, increasing the social, cultural and linguistic diversity in our community and enriching us in many other ways beyond just economic," Perlich explains.

Although there are no studies limited to Utah, she says there is no reason why data would be any different.

Segment 2

For the past week, KSL 5 News has presented reports on illegal immigration under the title, "The Dream Divided." Candice Madsen, the producer of the project, Jennifer Stagg, one of the KSL contributing reporters, Lee Davidson, one of the reporters of the Deseret News' recent project, "Fact or fiction? The myths and realities of illegal immigration," and Patricia Dark, editor of the Deseret News' Spanish Language paper, El Observador, participate in a roundtable discussion.

"We didn't know what we were going to find," explains Madsen. "Our biggest goal is, this is a topic that is important to a lot of people and we felt that it deserved more comprehensive coverage. We have also heard a lot of claims and a lot of what we have heard are anecdotal and so we really tried hard to get to the bottom of where those claims were coming from."

"Illegal immigration is a complex issue," Madsen continues. "It is a lot more complex than I realized."

The Deseret News' project was similar to KSL's.

"We were trying to get away from the rhetoric and find out what the facts are. It can be very simple. We heard that all Mexicans here are illegal, that's false," explains Davidson. "It's about 30 percent, according to the census and some other studies."

He says both sides overreact. "I wish all sides could get together and talk to each other and realize that they are all really pretty good human beings," Davidson says.

Jennifer Stagg was tasked with determining if illegal immigrants commit more crime. "We started looking at the prison population and how many of those inmates actually have ICE detainers on them," Stagg explains. "And it's about 5 percent for the past eight years."

"I was bracing myself for angry emails. The most direct feedback I have got through emails and phone calls... were a lot of very thoughtful conversations," describes Stagg. "People craving this information, wanting to know why we focused on the prison... and also people saying, ‘Why is there this perception out there that there are so many illegal people, illegal immigrants, committing crime? Is it the media's fault?'"

"It is important to point out that Hispanic does not mean illegal," says Stagg.

El Observador has a slightly different angle to the issue of illegal immigration.

"We are talking to the Hispanics. They are coming to us, they are calling us with stories about how it has taken them hundreds of thousands dollars and decades to get their papers straight," Dark explains. "Our readers are calling us and thanking us and saying finally people are out there talking about this and how difficult it is, and people realizing that maybe we are not all illegal and that we're not all bad And that we are actually all here for the good of this community and this state."

Viewer Feedback

Brad:"In the "Dream Divided" you want to pretend that the Mormons and illegal aliens of today, are somehow the same. They are not. The Mormons wanted to be left alone, they went where no one else lived. Even the Indians where not in the Salt Lake valley. If you go back in time to justify illegal aliens, then you can do that with many, many other laws we obey today. Back then you could kill a neighbors dog. Wife and child beating was not illegal yet. We now have laws that we all want enforced today. Then there is the issue of language. I do not want to see our country end up like Canada, the English and French want to divide the country mainly because of the two languages. This is happening with most Mexicans, they can not speak English and can not "melt" into a community when so many don\'t understand each other. There should be one common language, English must to the common denominator in the USA. We must end English as a second language in our public schools. I am very mad that some people would give illegals amnesty. That is so wrong. I have many friends that came here legally, they had to wait and do it the correct way. I find nothing wrong with any legal foreigners, but the terrible impact of illegals has been documented by the harm they do to our economy, culture, our very lifestyle. Only the short sighted and greedy employers benefit by having low paid workers that also have no voice to complain. They should not be given amnesty, this will only reward the law breakers and encourage more and more illegals to do the same. If amnesty is given then we should open up ALL the boarders to let everyone come to the USA, no restrictions, of course that is not the solution. We need to enforce the law and become Americans the American way."

**Luciano Oliveira:**"I have been leaving in this country legally with visas for 11 years, I am married with 4 kids and they are all US-citizen. No one can really say how much they understand the immigration process in this country unless if they work with it or deal with it. The immigration process now in US is a mess. I can show a great example on that with my wife situation. She has been in this country legally since she came here, got a Nurse degree from BYU with a GPA of 3.8, and immigration gave her a year work permit to her so she could practice her profession. She worked for that year at a very known institution in Utah and love what she does, therefore, she couldn't keep working anymore because the US Congress haven't approved Nurses visas for the US since 2003 even though US has one the biggest nurse shortage in the century. On the other hand, we know people that have no education whatsoever and they had apply for different visas that will allow them to work in this country and in areas where the shortage does not even exist. The price to be in this country legally is unbelievable and sometimes we wonder if it is worthy of doing so. Most of the immigration laws now are outdated. We came to America to obtain a better education, in fact, I graduated with a Bachelor degree from BYU and my wife graduated in Nursing from BYU. My biggest frustration or worry with all this immigration battle is that no one is taking in consideration how much this immigration battle is emotionally affecting the kids that are US citizen and see their parents' worries, fears and desperation because they leave illegally in this country. I wonder how much appreciation will these kids that are Americans have for this land while seeing their parents being treated the way they have been treated lately just because they are illegal or Latino in this country. Also, I wonder if anyone is taking in consideration as well the fact that those kids will possibly be some of the leaders on this nations? I love being in this country and I am grateful for all the opportunities we have had here to grow and developed our talents, and at the same time I worry about what my kids (Latinos/Americans) will have to deal with in the near future because of the way i have seen latinos being treated in this country. My wife and I are even considering moving out of the US because of all that we have seen going on here."

Mark Petrie:"I just wanted to say that I completely disagree with the study about whether or not illegals commit more crime than the normal population. They may not commit more violent crime that sends them to prison for a time, but I am 100 percent certain that they commit more fraud than citizens or legal immigrants. I work for DWS and I see every day false and/or stolen Social Security numbers, fake Social Security cards, fake passports, etc. This is not considered violent crime but it is blatant fraud. One of my customers uses a Social Security number that's also being used by eight other people. I've seen 2-year-old citizen children having wages reported on their Social Security number. I see illegals working high-paying construction jobs but they don't get check stubs from their employer because they are paid in cash under the table. Some of these people make more than I do and don't pay a lick in taxes. Employers are frequently unwilling to talk with DWS because they don't want anyone knowing that an illegal immigrant is working for them. So, saying that they don't commit more crime than the rest of society is misleading. Ninety-five percent of my cases have an illegal immigrant on them and I would confidently say that the vast majority are committing crimes in one way or another... be it tax evasion, false ID, etc."

Salvador Alonzo:"I'm very thankful for the immigration report that you guys have done in Utah. I think is wonderful! This will open the hearts and minds of all those people that have been contaminated with hatred. In my opinion, hatred and ignorance don't let you see the big picture and it can destroy. I was brought to this country when I was 12 years old and it has changed my life since then. I love this nation and I feel that I'm from here, but on the other hand I have this feeling that I'm not! Most of my friends are Latinos and it's not that I'm racist, but I can tell that I'm not very welcome with white people. I have some friends that are white, I'm not saying that I don't, but I'm just referring to those that ignore me or accept me because they own a business or because they have to. I have this feeling at school, church, stores or anywhere I go. It might only be in me, but is something that I wanted to share. I truly believe that something can be done and it needs to be done soon before hatred destroys the minds and hearts of this great nation."

Andrew McKnight: "Thank you for today's (July 25) "Sunday Edition" program on the issue of immigration. In addition, thank you for the entirety of your informative series, "A Dream Divided." Over the course of these programs I have been reminded of a quote by Alexander Pope which states: "Some people will never learn anything, for this reason, because they understand everything too soon." Thank you for using your influence to help defuse the divisive rhetoric and to help Utahns (including this one) more clearly understand both sides of this important issue. Please continue to bring viewers these wonderfully beneficial programs."

Frank G. Noel: "Enjoyed the show, but the study regarding the number of crimes committed by undocumented immigrants may be seriously flawed. If the reporter only considered the prison population, as she said she did, then she missed all those illegals who plead guilty to felonies and in return are not sent to prison but simply deported as a condition of their plea. This in fact accounts for a very large percentage of "first-time offenders." To miss this group is a serious flaw in the study. I have no opinion about whether illegals commit a disproportionate number of crimes, but it is clear to me that this study, if only considering prison population, has missed a very large category of felonies committed by illegal immigrants."

Frances Soulam: "KSL TV, I wish to thank you for your efforts to shed some facts on the issue of illegal immigration. I have some concerns: so far, for me, you have only added more questions rather than answers. This is good as it has started more constructive thoughts.

1. Sunday's program's panel: one commentator stated that only five percent of prisoners were listed as being in this country illegally. But was this five percent in the jails or prisons or both and did this include federal as well as local facilities? If, as another commentator indicated, this study showed that only 30 percent of Hispanics in Utah were considered in the country illegally, and even assuming that not all of the illegal prisoners were Hispanics, that five percent of 30 percent is a larger percentage of illegals, proportionate to the total population, that commit severe crimes which require jail time. I also assume that when a lesser crime is committed that deportation is the only action taken rather than going through the cost of prosecution. The nature of illegal leads to more hidden transactions to stay hidden from exposure.

2. The children of illegals who are, by birth in this country, U.S. citizens are victims of the life their parents are required to live. Many parents in order to "give the children" a better opportunity than their country of origin are left out of the mainstream America. The language barrier of family members, the fact that parents' time is spent on working rather to being home to raise the children, and the children left to their own devices at a very early age. The gang replaces the family life. Children raise themselves and they are not provided help to keep up with English school work. Dropping out or falling behind in school is common. The children are the real victims, unintentionally, of the very well-meaning parent's choices.

3. Back in the 60s we had a guest worker program which unions pressured the government to get rid of. This in my opinion was a mistake and one cause of good willing and needed workers to be forced to be enticed by companies who wanted to lower wages enticed people to come illegally. I am for a comprehensive "guest worker program".

4. If the government revised the immigration laws and included some "road to legalization" program for those who currently are here illegally, this will leave us with millions of undereducated work force which will at least initially overwhelm our welfare system. The food stamps, subsidized housing, medical coverage for the poor, etc. will surely bankrupt our already-rocky economy.

I again thank you for your willingness to tackle this complex problem. I am for open legal immigration which requires background checks, a rudimentary understanding of our language, and the proof that their skills will allow them to hold a job and not be a burden on the taxpayers. Thank you for the opportunity to voice my opinion."

Graciela:"First of all, I like to thank you for this edition very objective only informing. I have lived in Utah for 10 years. All this time I always felt just like a human being. I have never felt discriminated until now that some people at the store look at me twice wondering if I'm legal or not. It is very sad for me to know that because of the color of my skin they already have a bad impression of me. I love this country as much as they do and all this has been very distressing for me. Hopefully they see this edition."