Gunman Kills Five People at Trolley Square
Trolley Square's winding hallways became
a shooting gallery for an 18-year-old gunman in a trench coat who
fired a shotgun randomly at customers, killing five and wounding
four before being killed by police, authorities and witnesses said. February 13th, 2007 @ 8:00am
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My friend is trapped in the backroom of pottery barn kids and she says people were being gunned down in the entry way. and in the parking lot. they hurried to the back and are safe at this point. Not sure of casulaties, but definately wounded.
@James A. - so what? People get hurt all the time, everywhere why is everyone so worried about this particualr event?
@aaronjscarbs - ya well we'll be sayin that when you get shot, or a victim of a tragic event.
@Robbie S. - And I thought terrorism in America was finished following Bush's invasion of Iraq, or at least that is what we have been told since just before the "thumpin'" last November 2006.
@Jim F. - Jim F.
Your non-sequitir comments on the Bush administration are no longer required here. We do not cater to traitors nor cowards and are not interested in your diatribes on life.
Back to Quizno's with you. My sandwich is getting cold. Hold the onions.
Your non-sequitir comments on the Bush administration are no longer required here. We do not cater to traitors nor cowards and are not interested in your diatribes on life.
Back to Quizno's with you. My sandwich is getting cold. Hold the onions.
@Cletus_Lives - Before Jim's comment was very appropriately removed by the moderator, Mr. Jim made a smart remark about how the war in Iraq was supposed to prevent "things like this".
Non-sequitir means "doesn't follow". His remarks make no sense and are irrelevant other than to re-state the usual statements of the anti-Bush crowd.
Make more sense now?
Non-sequitir means "doesn't follow". His remarks make no sense and are irrelevant other than to re-state the usual statements of the anti-Bush crowd.
Make more sense now?
@Cletus_Lives - It's non-sequitur!
@Jim F. - thanks.
@Cletus_Lives - By the way, my friend, it turns out that this young shooter was a Muslim from a foreign country. Maybe you all jumped to conclusions about my comment a bit too quickly! Ya think??
@Jim F. - No. Sounds like he was your usual nutjob without a coordinated mass attack plan.
The government cannot nor will not cover everything. That includes health care. Believe me, you don't want that.
The government cannot nor will not cover everything. That includes health care. Believe me, you don't want that.
@James A. - I hope your friends are ok. Im definitely getting a concealed weapons permit this weekend.
I love www.Ksl.com and www.beehivereport.com
@Inigo montoya - Been saying it for years. One armed citizen could have ended this all...
Victims and families...so sorry this happened to you.
Victims and families...so sorry this happened to you.
Johnny D
@Johnnyd - Sure appears one armed citizen did end this all. Thank the Lord!
That officer is a hero. I want to buy him a drink, or a steak.
That officer is a hero. I want to buy him a drink, or a steak.
I love trolls.
@Nicu grad mommy - God bless the officer who took action and risked his life to save the lives of others. I will not call him an "off-duty" officer as most police officers are never truly off-duty, as this officer proved.
Remember anytime you hear about a law to restrict guns in certain buildings, like a church or a college, or to restrict guns in any way from a law abiding person that it will only restrict men like this from protecting you when a criminal decides to start killing everyone in sight. "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
Condolences to those who lost a loved one. To anyone who escaped or had a loved one escape, never forget the officer walked into the line of fire to save the lives of complete strangers.
To all news media: We do not care what the killer's middle name is, what excuses people may make for him, what his favorite TV show was or how good or bad his grades were. He was a coward, a loser, a murderer and should be boxed, buried and forgotten so those who entertain an ending like his will know there is no glory and publicity associated with such a low act.
Remember anytime you hear about a law to restrict guns in certain buildings, like a church or a college, or to restrict guns in any way from a law abiding person that it will only restrict men like this from protecting you when a criminal decides to start killing everyone in sight. "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
Condolences to those who lost a loved one. To anyone who escaped or had a loved one escape, never forget the officer walked into the line of fire to save the lives of complete strangers.
To all news media: We do not care what the killer's middle name is, what excuses people may make for him, what his favorite TV show was or how good or bad his grades were. He was a coward, a loser, a murderer and should be boxed, buried and forgotten so those who entertain an ending like his will know there is no glory and publicity associated with such a low act.
Reason & Accountability!!!
@Nicu grad mommy - I totally agree. He was doing his duty as a policeman. I cannot thank policemen enough for all that they do. That officer is a hero. I am glad people like that are among us.
@Johnnyd - that is only if an armed citizen has the guts to pull the trigger w/o hesitation. else wise, they are just another casualty. so pack only if you are willing to use it.
@Fregado - oh, and you have to know how to use it, shooting accurately takes alot of practice especially under stress. I'd hate to accidently shoot someone else. Also, an off duty police officer sees two people firing guns, you might get shot also, there is nothing to identify the civilian as a good guy. Just some things to consider, if you were in that sort of situation. Thank GOD for the POLICE, it would be complete anarchy without them.
@Johnnyd - Just because you have a CFP doesn't mean you have the training and/or the experience to save lives! If YOU do pass and get your CFP, continue to practice what you were taught and shoot at targets that are human photo targets (like the ones law enforcement shoot at) since that is why you are caring a CFP!!
Remember, we can all "arm-chair-quarterback" but at that very moment you better hope you have what it takes (training, pratice, skill i.e. marksmanship, kill or be killed instinct).
Remember, we can all "arm-chair-quarterback" but at that very moment you better hope you have what it takes (training, pratice, skill i.e. marksmanship, kill or be killed instinct).
@Johnnyd - It's only just beginning folks. It was only a matter of time that something like this would happen. And what's even scarier is it will only get worse. Now brace yourself for the copy cats. YIKES!!!!
@Eric C. - He is a copy cat, this has happened at other malls in the past, I think last one I remember was in the Tacoma Mall in Washington.
Hell hath no fury like Tg scorned!
@Eric C. - This is not the first time in SLC, remember the Geneological library and the Triad center? just recently some nut detonated a bomb in the library!!!
God bless the U.S.A.
@Eric C. - Watch for this to happen in a church. Consider the irate husband whose wife has just divorced him and she is now seeking counsel from her ecclesiastical leader. Knowing that people don’t carry weapons in church he can enter and take out his hatred and rage on all those she holds dear and associates with, fearing no immediate resistance or reprisal.
A couple of points:
1. The police show up to these things AFTER the fact. The pure luck that an off duty officer was at Trolley Square is incidental and rare.
2. Note that these shooting NEVER happen at police stations. This is because these people who commit these crimes are ultimate cowards. We can not rely on the police for our safety, as committed and wonderful as they are, they RESPOND, they rarely PREVENT. It is up to us as citizens to take on the responsibility for our own immediate safety. I applaud those here who are seeking concealed carry permits. I always feel safer in my community knowing there are law abiding citizens capable of at least giving a fighting chance for survival against these acts of pure evil.
A couple of points:
1. The police show up to these things AFTER the fact. The pure luck that an off duty officer was at Trolley Square is incidental and rare.
2. Note that these shooting NEVER happen at police stations. This is because these people who commit these crimes are ultimate cowards. We can not rely on the police for our safety, as committed and wonderful as they are, they RESPOND, they rarely PREVENT. It is up to us as citizens to take on the responsibility for our own immediate safety. I applaud those here who are seeking concealed carry permits. I always feel safer in my community knowing there are law abiding citizens capable of at least giving a fighting chance for survival against these acts of pure evil.
I wonder how many lentils i've ever eaten? Neil
@Eric C. - You know, this sort of thing has been going on since the beginning of time. Only the beginning..? Cmon. This is as old as the hills, and happened much more frequently when Utah was in it's infancy.
Now the airliner thing and bomb thing is the deal we need to worry about.
The armed nut in a store could be anyone at any time. The fact that he only hurt and killed as few as he did is a testament to the fine law enforcement present.
Now the airliner thing and bomb thing is the deal we need to worry about.
The armed nut in a store could be anyone at any time. The fact that he only hurt and killed as few as he did is a testament to the fine law enforcement present.
@Cletus_Lives - This is not new. However, they seem to be happening more frequently and escalating in fatalities. Had the Ogden police officer not been there, I shudder to think how much blood would have been shed. And the problem is the media glorifies these criminals and never the victims. Just like Columbine. We all remember Dylan and Eric, but who can name one Columbine fatality? We remember Hitler, Stallin, Bin Laden, Saddam Insane, Gary Gilmore, Charles Manson, but who can name all they people they massacred?
If you can, you're a rarity. When teenagers or younger kids see these people getting the publicity they get it makes them legends in their own minds. Ever since Jesse James, Butch Cassidy, etc etc, rebellious teenagers look at these madmen as heros. That's why I say the stone is really starting to roll.
If you can, you're a rarity. When teenagers or younger kids see these people getting the publicity they get it makes them legends in their own minds. Ever since Jesse James, Butch Cassidy, etc etc, rebellious teenagers look at these madmen as heros. That's why I say the stone is really starting to roll.
@Johnnyd - Don't you mean, one armed citizen CAUSED this all?
@L S. - Don't you DARE call this a-hole a citizen.
Psycho, a-hole, criminal... plenty of other things you can label this guy with, but a CITIZEN he was definitely NOT.
Psycho, a-hole, criminal... plenty of other things you can label this guy with, but a CITIZEN he was definitely NOT.
Johnny D
@Johnnyd - He was armed and he was a citizen.
Just because you got your gun the right way, does not make you immune to mis-using it.
I just can't believe that guns solve the problem of guns.
Just because you got your gun the right way, does not make you immune to mis-using it.
I just can't believe that guns solve the problem of guns.
@Robert B. - (Semantically, guns can't solve anyone's problems let alone their own, since guns are inanimate objecst and can't do anything of their own accord... but moving on in a more mature vein...)
If we state your last comment replacing the word "guns" with the word "fire" we get:
I just can't believe that fire solve[s] the problem of fire
And yet the old maxim "fight fire with fire" is true. Fire is used to fight fire.
Would you recommend taking guns out of the hands of law enforcement? If not, why not? You don't can't believe that guns solve the problem of guns, so you must have a hard time believing that law enforcement should carry.
However, let's be practical and logical. Law enforcement officers carry guns for what reason, if not to use them with sometimes lethal force against those criminals who also have them? Deterrence only, perhaps? Well that doesn't stop the shooter in the school/mall/church etc.
Now, if you are suggesting that all guns everywhere should be removed from circulation and all gun production ceased and all previously made guns be melted down and forged into railroads and spoons and skyscrapers, well then yeah, that's a lofty ideal and it would be super if we could really ever expect to be able to "beat our swords into plowshares" as a global community.
The reality is that as long as there are people with a pension for violence, there will be people who will find a way to have a physical advantage over others and they will use that advantage to cause harm. If we were to get rid of the guns, the swords, the knives, the chemicals that when combined create explosives, and every other weapon around the world, where would we be? Would we be peaceful? If all we had were farm implements such as rakes and hoes and spades and shovels so that we could at least grow vegetation and still feed ourselves, it stands to reason that one of these people will get hold of a spade and put it through somebody's skull.
Take the story of Cain and Abel, for example. The story of the first murder. Whether you're religious or not, the story has a moral value, and more than that you can't suppose that Cain shot Abel, and it's doubtful that Cain killed Abel with a sword, as killing other people was unknown at that time. Maybe he used a knife, I imagine they existed for slaughtering animals, however Cain was a gardener, so it stands to reason he used a shovel or other farm tool.
So getting rid of guns won't stop murder. It would slow it, probably, you can't swing a shovel as quickly as you can squeeze off a few rounds from a handgun, so maybe its a step in the right direction.
And yet...
Pragmatically, disarming the world would be virtually impossible. I don't like to say anything is impossible, but disarming the world is one of those things that is so unlikely that the difference between it's probability and impossibility is so fine that impossible would get the point accross better than improbable.
So what are the proposed solutions? 1) Disarm law abiding citizens, 2) Arm all law abiding citizens who believe themselves capable of returning fire.
Well, there are many more propositions than these, but these are the two extremes that get the most "air time". Neither are great, ideas at all. Both seem kind of foolish and dangerous. There needs to be a balance between the two, but that's actually what we currently have. Is it working? Maybe. It's hard to know without inching towards one or the other and seeing how that changes things. But dare we?
The bottom line is that an armed populace may give rise to more opportunity for such displays of violence, while an unarmed populace gives rise to more opportunity for those who remain armed to exercise their violent power more liberally.
An armed populace offers a deterrence factor that an unarmed populace does not. However, this guy who opened fire last night, he knew he would eventually be shot and killed. He had to know that he wouldn't get out alive, so knowing he would die wasn't much of a deterrence factor for him (or any of the other shooters over the past several years), so does that mean having an armed populace doesn't deter? Of course not. It just means it doesn't deter this particular kind of shooter. One thing it may do, however, is end the shooting spree before 5 people are killed.
In summary, to bring us full circle: Guns don't solve the problem of guns. That is up to people. The guns in the hands of the officers who finally killed the shooter last night didn't solve the problem of those who had been killed or injured. However they did solve the problem how to prevent other people being shot and possible killed if the cops had not been armed.
If we state your last comment replacing the word "guns" with the word "fire" we get:
I just can't believe that fire solve[s] the problem of fire
And yet the old maxim "fight fire with fire" is true. Fire is used to fight fire.
Would you recommend taking guns out of the hands of law enforcement? If not, why not? You don't can't believe that guns solve the problem of guns, so you must have a hard time believing that law enforcement should carry.
However, let's be practical and logical. Law enforcement officers carry guns for what reason, if not to use them with sometimes lethal force against those criminals who also have them? Deterrence only, perhaps? Well that doesn't stop the shooter in the school/mall/church etc.
Now, if you are suggesting that all guns everywhere should be removed from circulation and all gun production ceased and all previously made guns be melted down and forged into railroads and spoons and skyscrapers, well then yeah, that's a lofty ideal and it would be super if we could really ever expect to be able to "beat our swords into plowshares" as a global community.
The reality is that as long as there are people with a pension for violence, there will be people who will find a way to have a physical advantage over others and they will use that advantage to cause harm. If we were to get rid of the guns, the swords, the knives, the chemicals that when combined create explosives, and every other weapon around the world, where would we be? Would we be peaceful? If all we had were farm implements such as rakes and hoes and spades and shovels so that we could at least grow vegetation and still feed ourselves, it stands to reason that one of these people will get hold of a spade and put it through somebody's skull.
Take the story of Cain and Abel, for example. The story of the first murder. Whether you're religious or not, the story has a moral value, and more than that you can't suppose that Cain shot Abel, and it's doubtful that Cain killed Abel with a sword, as killing other people was unknown at that time. Maybe he used a knife, I imagine they existed for slaughtering animals, however Cain was a gardener, so it stands to reason he used a shovel or other farm tool.
So getting rid of guns won't stop murder. It would slow it, probably, you can't swing a shovel as quickly as you can squeeze off a few rounds from a handgun, so maybe its a step in the right direction.
And yet...
Pragmatically, disarming the world would be virtually impossible. I don't like to say anything is impossible, but disarming the world is one of those things that is so unlikely that the difference between it's probability and impossibility is so fine that impossible would get the point accross better than improbable.
So what are the proposed solutions? 1) Disarm law abiding citizens, 2) Arm all law abiding citizens who believe themselves capable of returning fire.
Well, there are many more propositions than these, but these are the two extremes that get the most "air time". Neither are great, ideas at all. Both seem kind of foolish and dangerous. There needs to be a balance between the two, but that's actually what we currently have. Is it working? Maybe. It's hard to know without inching towards one or the other and seeing how that changes things. But dare we?
The bottom line is that an armed populace may give rise to more opportunity for such displays of violence, while an unarmed populace gives rise to more opportunity for those who remain armed to exercise their violent power more liberally.
An armed populace offers a deterrence factor that an unarmed populace does not. However, this guy who opened fire last night, he knew he would eventually be shot and killed. He had to know that he wouldn't get out alive, so knowing he would die wasn't much of a deterrence factor for him (or any of the other shooters over the past several years), so does that mean having an armed populace doesn't deter? Of course not. It just means it doesn't deter this particular kind of shooter. One thing it may do, however, is end the shooting spree before 5 people are killed.
In summary, to bring us full circle: Guns don't solve the problem of guns. That is up to people. The guns in the hands of the officers who finally killed the shooter last night didn't solve the problem of those who had been killed or injured. However they did solve the problem how to prevent other people being shot and possible killed if the cops had not been armed.
@Robert B. - United States has by far the highest rate of gun deaths. I don't think we can reduce the number of gun related death and tragedy by increasing the number of guns in the society. If you compare the number of gun related death in U.S. with other countries, you will see that something needs to be done in this country.
@Bob S. - Is that including the countries like Iraq and Somalia where the corrupt governments slaughter their own citizens by the tens of thousands? Saddam was a firm believer in gun control, so was Hitler.
While I do believe in some measure of societal control, we have to draw the line somewhere. Benjamin Franklin is credited with making the statement, "He who trades freedom for security deserves neither." How far are you willing to sacrifice your freedom for security? I would prefer to maintain my freedom and contribute to providing my own security. Just as our founding Fathers did for themselves and tried to pass on to us.
While I do believe in some measure of societal control, we have to draw the line somewhere. Benjamin Franklin is credited with making the statement, "He who trades freedom for security deserves neither." How far are you willing to sacrifice your freedom for security? I would prefer to maintain my freedom and contribute to providing my own security. Just as our founding Fathers did for themselves and tried to pass on to us.
@L S. - No. I'm betting an 18-year-old kid didn't have a conceal carry permit. That doesn't make him a legally armed citizen. It makes him an illegal weapon carrier, the kind who gets their hands on weapons with or without a permit. I'm also betting that if he knew that 1/2 the patrons at the mall were packing, he'd have thought twice before attempting to unload on them.
@Loni S. - So does it matter to the 5 dead if he got the gun legally or illegeally? No. The bottom line is this, statistics show that he most likely got the gun from home. According to the Brady institute, of the James Brady that was shot in the Reagan assassination attempt, 43% of US households with kids also have guns. More than 1/2 of those households keep those guns unlocked. 1 in 10 keep the guns loaded AND unlocked.
So, and this is speculation, but the odds are that he didn't have to buy the gun off the street, he didn't steal it, he simply got it from home....
So, and this is speculation, but the odds are that he didn't have to buy the gun off the street, he didn't steal it, he simply got it from home....
@L S. - If you truly believe this, then there's no helping you. Otherwise, this is a pathetic troll attempt. "Statistics show" and then you don't post any statistics linking VIOLENT CRIME to a REGISTERED GUN OWNER. That's the important point you were trying to make, is it not?
CRIMINALS commit these acts, with VERY few exceptions, with or without weapons of all shapes, types, and sizes. The random 18 year old that goes on a rampage is an anomaly. Thanks to the media, we hear about it the second it happens, but it's not the norm. I am a concealed carrier, and am a veteran of 10 years of active military service. I am an expert marksman, and can assure you that I hit what I shoot, and know when to shoot.
You're silly anti-gun position only works until your very life is on the line, and then I might happen to be there to give you a fighting chance against such a criminal or psychotic. Then I'm sure your opinion would quickly change.
CRIMINALS commit these acts, with VERY few exceptions, with or without weapons of all shapes, types, and sizes. The random 18 year old that goes on a rampage is an anomaly. Thanks to the media, we hear about it the second it happens, but it's not the norm. I am a concealed carrier, and am a veteran of 10 years of active military service. I am an expert marksman, and can assure you that I hit what I shoot, and know when to shoot.
You're silly anti-gun position only works until your very life is on the line, and then I might happen to be there to give you a fighting chance against such a criminal or psychotic. Then I'm sure your opinion would quickly change.
@Johnnyd - Just because you get a CFP doesn't mean this would have ended any sooner. It mostly likely means that there would have been one more casualty or that the police would have shot you also because they didn't know who the true suspect was. If everyone is running around carrying guns, how are the police to know who is who????
@Treimee - This shooting was ended by an armed citizen (an off duty Ogden Police Officer) and he was not shot by the arriving Salt Lake Police. Without that armed citizen the death toll would likely have been a lot higher.
Carthago est delenda!
@Johnnyd - Don't you think that there were armed citizens there? It's one thing to talk and write about confronting and killing this sor of evil monster, and it is quite another to actually do it. There are actually a number of strong disicnetives to doing so. First among them is the very real possibility of getting oneself killed, either by the gunman, or by another citizen or police who mistakenly think you are the killer. Another is the many hours of interrogation and investigation you will face at the hands of police, the DIstrict Attorney's Office and perhaps even a Grand Jury.
In a situation like this one, the safe thing to do is run out of the mall or hide somewhere and shoot only if you yourself are directly threatened.
In a situation like this one, the safe thing to do is run out of the mall or hide somewhere and shoot only if you yourself are directly threatened.
@Johnnyd - unfortunately, one armed citizen STARTED it all!
My heart goes out to the families and victims as well. God bless you and the officers who risked their lives to help you.
My heart goes out to the families and victims as well. God bless you and the officers who risked their lives to help you.
@Johnnyd - The obvious reply is....
IT WAS ONE ARMED CITIZEN THAT STARTED THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!
Sorry...but I'd still rather the police did the disarming.
IT WAS ONE ARMED CITIZEN THAT STARTED THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!
Sorry...but I'd still rather the police did the disarming.
@Robert B. - you or somone you care about weren't the second, third, fourth..... person to get shot by this creep. Had there been a armed civilian there they could have stopped this guy well before the cops got there.
@30 cal - You don't know anything about me or my past.
But since we are just throwing out guesses....
I'm guessing you haven't been to Somalia.
That's a GREAT example of what happens when everyone has guns.
But you probably haven't been outside the country. So how about the "hood" in huge urban cities in the 90s?
Wait...I'm guessing you haven't been outside Utah.
Of course...I could be wrong. I'm just guessing.
But since we are just throwing out guesses....
I'm guessing you haven't been to Somalia.
That's a GREAT example of what happens when everyone has guns.
But you probably haven't been outside the country. So how about the "hood" in huge urban cities in the 90s?
Wait...I'm guessing you haven't been outside Utah.
Of course...I could be wrong. I'm just guessing.
@Robert B. - armed and trained citizens with permits to carry small arms are NOT "skinnies" with AK-47's, no matter how you try and spin that.
We're not talking about the "hood" either, with criminal records longer than Brigham's pedigree chart.
So let's stay on topic, which is that gun control or lack thereof caused this issue.
Leave the crap flinging to the ape cage.
We're not talking about the "hood" either, with criminal records longer than Brigham's pedigree chart.
So let's stay on topic, which is that gun control or lack thereof caused this issue.
Leave the crap flinging to the ape cage.
@Robert B. - I never made mention of caring about your past.
You read pretty deep into my post.
The fact of the matter is my guess was right all of yours are wrong.
Your comparison between places where there are many more criminals with guns than good law abiding citizens to Utah is bull. If everyone in Utah had a gun we wouldn't even remotely resemble the ghetto or the cities in Somalia you might have seen.
I appreciate what the police do but they can't be there every second holding my hand to keep a crazy kid from shooting me while I shop.
Sorry...but I'd rather I have the option to disarm if needs be.
You read pretty deep into my post.
The fact of the matter is my guess was right all of yours are wrong.
Your comparison between places where there are many more criminals with guns than good law abiding citizens to Utah is bull. If everyone in Utah had a gun we wouldn't even remotely resemble the ghetto or the cities in Somalia you might have seen.
I appreciate what the police do but they can't be there every second holding my hand to keep a crazy kid from shooting me while I shop.
Sorry...but I'd rather I have the option to disarm if needs be.
@Robert B. - I also have never been to Somalia. But, if for some reason I had to go....I would want to have a gun.
@Robert B. - To understand this issue one only needs to study atrocities throughout history. In almost every case it is easy to spot the victims. They are the ones that don't have a means to defend themselves. Your natural rights are those that you have without anyone “giving” them to you. You have a natural right to defend yourself. A gun is a tool to do that. It is not dangerous all by itself.
No one has the moral right to take the ability to defend yourself away from you. Not an individual. Not society. If you don't feel safe with a gun then don't have one. But when you start wanting to strip others of that choice you are taking away their natural right that they were born with.
It is as simple as that. This heartbreaking tragedy illustrates this truth.
No one has the moral right to take the ability to defend yourself away from you. Not an individual. Not society. If you don't feel safe with a gun then don't have one. But when you start wanting to strip others of that choice you are taking away their natural right that they were born with.
It is as simple as that. This heartbreaking tragedy illustrates this truth.
@Inigo montoya - I hear ya. I will finally be getting that license I have been putting off. The world couldn't have enough trustworthy people with guns on them.
@James A. - If only they would put up a "No guns" sign at Trolley Square this would never be able to happen.
@Besserwisser - You can carry at all the malls,I carry all day long, no matter where I go. I feel sorry for the people who where hurt, god bless them! Protect your familes, get a concealed weapons permit, please! Bad guys can pop up anywhere--- protect your familes now.
@Copforlife2 - Just a note of caution friend. The officer who was in plain clothes was caught in a dangerous cross fire. It is very fortunate that the uniformed officers had cool heads and did not engage him. Just remember that if you find yourself in a situation where you might have to use deadly force; you are a potential target to people who out-gun you in a major way. Not to mention that most of them are expert shots. They have no way of knowing who you are. Think about it. Don't be afraid to act, just think about it.
Nevertheless, the off duty officer is a hero.
Nevertheless, the off duty officer is a hero.
Freedom Isn't Free... thank a soldier today.
@Copforlife2 - So how do off duty cops identify themselves to other cops? If you were an off duty cop trying to engage a monster like this and a swat teams stormed in, how would you let the swat team know that you are one of them?
Just curious. I'm not trying to dissuade you from getting involved in something like this - I'm genuinely curious.
Just curious. I'm not trying to dissuade you from getting involved in something like this - I'm genuinely curious.
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
@Jennifer z. - Well, for all the repeat posters who keep asking, here's a way we do it...
When law enforcement shows up, the hands go up in the air, with the weapon safe. The psycho is the one still shooting and doesn't put down the shotgun.
Contrary to popular belief, SWAT and L.E. doesn't run up and shoot anyone holding a weapon, especially when subject A is pointing a small handgun at subject B who is holding a shotgun and randomly shooting.
Does that clear things up a bit?
When law enforcement shows up, the hands go up in the air, with the weapon safe. The psycho is the one still shooting and doesn't put down the shotgun.
Contrary to popular belief, SWAT and L.E. doesn't run up and shoot anyone holding a weapon, especially when subject A is pointing a small handgun at subject B who is holding a shotgun and randomly shooting.
Does that clear things up a bit?
@Besserwisser - Freaks like this are still going to come in weilding a weapn even if there was a "No Guns" sign this idiot would still have had his hay day at others expense.
Once again DUH!
Once again DUH!
Christy84065
@Christy84065 - Freaks like this are still going to come in weilding a weapn even if there was a "No Guns" sign this idiot would still have had his hay day at others expense.
Once again DUH!
Thanks Christy for making the point that gun laws will not stop the freaks!!! Only bullets will stop the freaks in cases like this.
My wife and I both carry and we attend tatical shooting classes to help us in situations like this. My wife is a deadeye at 25 yards and pitty the soul who wants to confront her.
When freaks do this it is a suicide mission and the only way you can stop them is with force.
America better brace itself because the bad guys will be here very soon. The crazys who live in the other world of ratical religions will be on our doostep in the not to distant future. They want to kill you.
Once again DUH!
Thanks Christy for making the point that gun laws will not stop the freaks!!! Only bullets will stop the freaks in cases like this.
My wife and I both carry and we attend tatical shooting classes to help us in situations like this. My wife is a deadeye at 25 yards and pitty the soul who wants to confront her.
When freaks do this it is a suicide mission and the only way you can stop them is with force.
America better brace itself because the bad guys will be here very soon. The crazys who live in the other world of ratical religions will be on our doostep in the not to distant future. They want to kill you.
Rustyman
@Dogface - Hey Dogface,
Instead of stopping them with force, why don't we try to reach them before it gets to that point?
Instead of stopping them with force, why don't we try to reach them before it gets to that point?
@L S. - Reaching them before the fact would be ideal. (of course)I think most anyone would have done something to help this kid if they new he was going to do something this awful.
Dogface is right,
once it gets to that point it takes a gun to stop a gun.
Dogface is right,
once it gets to that point it takes a gun to stop a gun.
@L S. - koumbayah koumbayah
you will never understand that they do not want to be reached, they want you indfidels DEAD!
you will never understand that they do not want to be reached, they want you indfidels DEAD!
@L S. - Nice troll attempt, for the 3rd time. I think this poster was referring to the "bad guys" from the extremist standpoint. "Reach them" is a fantasy devoid of any serious thought.
@L S. - What in the heck are you talking about? Maybe if we tried to reach this guy he would not have done what he did; I don't think so!
America has become a bunch of Eunuchs, where is my John Wayne? I know, he has gone to the other side where we talk our way out of conflicts and essentially lay down and kiss the feet of all who want to hurt us.
The world is a tough place and here in America we have become just like the French. Russia is on the move and will have their empire back, Europe is now part of Iran and America is hiding under the bed.
America has become a bunch of Eunuchs, where is my John Wayne? I know, he has gone to the other side where we talk our way out of conflicts and essentially lay down and kiss the feet of all who want to hurt us.
The world is a tough place and here in America we have become just like the French. Russia is on the move and will have their empire back, Europe is now part of Iran and America is hiding under the bed.
Rustyman
@Besserwisser - sarcasm when you see it.
Besserwisser is just making a point about how STUPID gun legislation is. He's being sarcastic people!
Actually, facetious is more like it.
I get your disdain for the law and sign crap, man.
ONLY LAW ABIDING CITIZENS OBEY SIGNS AND LAWS!!!!
Gun control is about how tight a pattern I can put in the chest of a%#holes like this guy (perp at Trolley).
Glad he's dead!!!
Besserwisser is just making a point about how STUPID gun legislation is. He's being sarcastic people!
Actually, facetious is more like it.
I get your disdain for the law and sign crap, man.
ONLY LAW ABIDING CITIZENS OBEY SIGNS AND LAWS!!!!
Gun control is about how tight a pattern I can put in the chest of a%#holes like this guy (perp at Trolley).
Glad he's dead!!!
Johnny D
@Besserwisser - A no guns sign would have only prevented those who obey the law
@Cheif - I think they could've used/should demand metal detectors in all malls. People are NUTS anymore. I mean...C'mon where ya gunna find a really powerful "plastic" gun!
I'm so glad I wasn't there last night. I almost was. I HOPE God has some level of mercy on the poor distubed young man's soul! I feel soo bad for all of those involved! God Bless you, and your all in my prayers! UTAH SHOULDN'T COME TO THIS!!!!
I'm so glad I wasn't there last night. I almost was. I HOPE God has some level of mercy on the poor distubed young man's soul! I feel soo bad for all of those involved! God Bless you, and your all in my prayers! UTAH SHOULDN'T COME TO THIS!!!!
@Pray-er! - Didn't this start in the parking lot?
Put a metal detector and a rent-a-cop at the front door and your rent-a-cop will be your first victim in a rampage type shooting (alarms and all).
Maybe the malls should hire plain clothing, armed security guards and advertise that these people are always roaming the malls ready to bring you down if you try something like this.
Put a metal detector and a rent-a-cop at the front door and your rent-a-cop will be your first victim in a rampage type shooting (alarms and all).
Maybe the malls should hire plain clothing, armed security guards and advertise that these people are always roaming the malls ready to bring you down if you try something like this.
@Besserwisser - I really don't think a sign that says "No Guns" would keep this guy out.
If someone is on a rampage to kill people.....they're not going to read the sign and say to themselves "Oh, I can't take my gun in there....I had better go to another place that allows guns so I can kill people".
I'm really hoping that your comment was sarcasm.
If someone is on a rampage to kill people.....they're not going to read the sign and say to themselves "Oh, I can't take my gun in there....I had better go to another place that allows guns so I can kill people".
I'm really hoping that your comment was sarcasm.
~~~I Am Fortunate To Live, Walk & Breathe Among The Bravest Of Heroes...I Am A Proud Navy Wife & Mom~~~
@Besserwisser - I'm sorry, if this "waste of skin" had no disregard for human life, a sign is not going to stop him.
@Besserwisser - would have "prevented" this scumbag from gunning down all of the innocents. I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic and verbose, otherwise, your naivete' makes you a blithering idiot.
@James A. - WOW i missed all the BANGS. I was at Trolley Square eating dinner at "the old Speghitti factory" right about the time it happened but heard nothing so i must have left just prior to it all happening.
A co-worker i work graveyard with was there when it happened he was at the West end of Square on the second floor and said it sounded like a big stack of heavy scaffle planks being dropped to the ground from the 50th floor of a construction site over and over.
Man this is so messed up some one obviously does not have their head screwed on right but man House Bill 0050 comes up in committee today and the argument is crap like this is not instigated by video games but now if i am that sponsor i walk in and say committee committee another incident i want my substituted resolution changed back to my original bill. I can see Scott Wyatt doing just that.
It will be interesting to learn the background of the person.
A co-worker i work graveyard with was there when it happened he was at the West end of Square on the second floor and said it sounded like a big stack of heavy scaffle planks being dropped to the ground from the 50th floor of a construction site over and over.
Man this is so messed up some one obviously does not have their head screwed on right but man House Bill 0050 comes up in committee today and the argument is crap like this is not instigated by video games but now if i am that sponsor i walk in and say committee committee another incident i want my substituted resolution changed back to my original bill. I can see Scott Wyatt doing just that.
It will be interesting to learn the background of the person.
xXxKidsItIsAPleasureToBringFineThingsToYouxXx
@Dumb computer geek - I find it interesting how your opinion all the sudden flip flopped over night! talking on the log about the correctional officer who stole money you hate police and think they are all scum, but here you are, with life in the hands of police and all the sudden they are glorious? make up your mind. I think you are nuts.
@myramaines - Nope not at all man. I have said "certain" lets say it again so you get it "CERTAIN" Police have major attitudes but some are actually pretty cool like the Murray PD guy at Starbucks in Murray on certain days the guys that patrol my neighborhood. The guys that patrol my neighborhood are way cool they know pretty much every one by first or last name. I would buy these guys dinner if they could except but they can not departmental policy.
Bro i was eating dinner last week at a restaurant and had my lap to pwith me. No way do i leave my lappy unattended but that night there was a Police officer eating with some one. If those two were not sitting right by my table no way would i have walked off to make a call outside but i did. He looked pretty upstanding. Your perception of what i think is way off.
Do i have a certain standard that civilian personel should live by count on it. You should have that same standard you pay their salary but the reality is they are normal people just like you and i, they do things aside of Policing just like i do i am not sure if you do.
I do not think i praised or bashed anything i mearly stated i was at Trolly Square at the time the media reported this tragedy i must have just barely missed it because it was all calm and quiet when i left. Did i hear sirens well of course but by the time it all happened i was already far enough away to discount anything of this magnitude having happened until i learned of it later reading the news.
Just for the record what does your psychic mind say i think??? I would really like to know.
Some Salt Lake Valley agencies "definitly" need improving.
Bro i was eating dinner last week at a restaurant and had my lap to pwith me. No way do i leave my lappy unattended but that night there was a Police officer eating with some one. If those two were not sitting right by my table no way would i have walked off to make a call outside but i did. He looked pretty upstanding. Your perception of what i think is way off.
Do i have a certain standard that civilian personel should live by count on it. You should have that same standard you pay their salary but the reality is they are normal people just like you and i, they do things aside of Policing just like i do i am not sure if you do.
I do not think i praised or bashed anything i mearly stated i was at Trolly Square at the time the media reported this tragedy i must have just barely missed it because it was all calm and quiet when i left. Did i hear sirens well of course but by the time it all happened i was already far enough away to discount anything of this magnitude having happened until i learned of it later reading the news.
Just for the record what does your psychic mind say i think??? I would really like to know.
Some Salt Lake Valley agencies "definitly" need improving.
xXxKidsItIsAPleasureToBringFineThingsToYouxXx
@James A. - Ok for everyone who wants to go out and get your CFP I'm glad you feel that way. Email training@strategictacticalgroup.com to set up a class. This is a tradgedy that could have been ended before more people we killed and injured. I'm sorry for those that have lost loved ones or had to witness this incident.
we're trapped in the backroom of pottery barn kids and we witnessed people being gunned down in the second floor and in the entry way. police are aware we're here. and we just want everyone to know we're okay.
pbk staff
pbk staff
@James A. - James A.,
I'm Utah's Time Mag. reporter and I would be very interested in talking to you about what you witnessed and experienced tonight at Trolley Square. You and anyone else that might have been with you. You can reach me at peta@liston.com or call 414-5652.
I'm Utah's Time Mag. reporter and I would be very interested in talking to you about what you witnessed and experienced tonight at Trolley Square. You and anyone else that might have been with you. You can reach me at peta@liston.com or call 414-5652.
@Peta L. - Just for that comment, I will never pick up an issue of Time magazine. That was about as sleazy as it gets. In fact, perhaps your competition would be interested in seeing just how tactless you are.
Perhaps a little more compassion and concern for their situation was in order. You can worry about your meal ticket later.
Perhaps a little more compassion and concern for their situation was in order. You can worry about your meal ticket later.
@Spencer F. - Last night KSL, along with every other news station, was asking anyone who was in Trolley Square, or had witnessed the shooting to call in. Peta is just doing his job. He wants information just like all you bloggers want it, so get over it.
@Peta L. - Typical reporter getting the "Dirty Laundry" that Don Henley sings about. I can't believe this guy is for real. Would anyone be dumb enough to make that comment and post his/her phone number too?
I do wish people would learn to control their anger. It is sad when innocent by-standers are put in harms way. I do hope no one was seriously hurt.
We were in the desert edge brewery and a guy sitting by the window saw someone cock a gun and then fire shots before entering the building. Everyone started running out and we are now safe at home. my friends were trapped inside hiding in a closet for about 25 minutes before he was able to run out.
Very scary. Still breathing hard.
Who does this?!?!
Very scary. Still breathing hard.
Who does this?!?!
@Roger M. - Nobody commenting on TV has given a description of the shooter, though many saw him...what did the shooter look like?
@Roger M. - This is why some of us have availed ourselves of concealed weapons permits.
I hope and pray I never have to use a gun in self-defense. But if I ever need, I intend to have it with me.
Why? Because I can't throw a rock, or chair, or anyting else at 1300 feet per second.
I hope and pray I never have to use a gun in self-defense. But if I ever need, I intend to have it with me.
Why? Because I can't throw a rock, or chair, or anyting else at 1300 feet per second.
@Charles h - I wish someone with a concealed weapons permit and a gun would have been the one to put this guy down - it would go a long way to showing that owning such is a good idea. I still just don't understand why people think that outlawing guns will prevent this type of thing from happening - people that want to kill are not worried about breaking a law that says they can't have a gun.
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. - Bertrand Russell
@Thurbermingus - Considering how responsible CFP-holders are, and how many CFP-holders there are, why haven't they stopped anything like this mass-murder yet? We hear constantly that CFP-holders will make society safer. Are we to believe that there were no CFP-holders at Trolley Square last night? Or at any similar situations around the country. I have yet to hear of a CFP-holder actually making society safer. At some point, all of the talk gets old.
I'd rather be rich than stupid.
@Walter s. - Every MONTH there is a story that showcases this very thing in NRA magazines. EVERY month. Too bad the media at large misses this. They name time, places, and so forth and state from the carrier's point of view what happened and under what circumstances.
@Cletus_Lives - So, the NRA puts it in their magazine, told by the CFP-holder's point-of-view? It doesn't get much more objective and credible than that. Thanks for straightening me out.
I'd rather be rich than stupid.
@Walter s. - "They name time, places, and so forth" was posted so that one wouldn't come back with "oh, it's all made up" (or whatever it is you said...).
But nice try nonetheless.
But nice try nonetheless.
@Cletus_Lives - So, if the articles in the NRA magazine list names, dates, and places, it has to be true and unbiased? I just don't think that a magazine published by the NRA is the ultimate source of unbiased truth about gun violence issues. I know that you blame the liberal media conspiracy for covering up the truth about CFP heroes, but I would think that some of those stories would leak into the mainstream media.
I'd rather be rich than stupid.
@Charles h - And thank the lord for the NRA. They will always protect the psychos right to gun down innocent bystanders.
@David P. - it is the NRA and other pro-gun organizations that protect the right of innocent bystanders to defend themselves from the psychos.
It is the Brady Bunch, and people like David P who seem to think that leaving innocent people unarmed and defenseless in the face of violent crimminals will somehow reduce crime.
Gun Control: The theory that a woman found raped and strangled to death with her own nylons is morally superior to the woman explaining to police how her attacker got those fatal bullet wounds.
It is the Brady Bunch, and people like David P who seem to think that leaving innocent people unarmed and defenseless in the face of violent crimminals will somehow reduce crime.
Gun Control: The theory that a woman found raped and strangled to death with her own nylons is morally superior to the woman explaining to police how her attacker got those fatal bullet wounds.
@Charles h - When does a person with a gun in hand and good intentions become a suspect or a target for another concealed weapons holder? I do wish that was the best answer however this creates as many if not more problems than it solves.
@My bad - We have over 80,000 permits valid in Utah. Florida has several hundred thousand permits valid. I'd guess there are several million permits valid in the 47 States that now issue permits, plus Vermont that does not issue, but does not require a permit to carry a self-defense weapon. How many cases can you cite where your concerns have materialized?
Or are your concerns NOT based on solid facts, but instead on paranoid fantasies?
And would you disarm off-duty or plains clothes police officers as well? EXACTLY the same "problem" is present. How does anyone know he is a cop?
It is not real tough to tell the difference between a bad guy mowing down innocent people and a good guy--be it an off duty cop or a concealed permit holder--who is carefully defending himself.
Bottom line, it does NOT create problems except for the criminals.
Or are your concerns NOT based on solid facts, but instead on paranoid fantasies?
And would you disarm off-duty or plains clothes police officers as well? EXACTLY the same "problem" is present. How does anyone know he is a cop?
It is not real tough to tell the difference between a bad guy mowing down innocent people and a good guy--be it an off duty cop or a concealed permit holder--who is carefully defending himself.
Bottom line, it does NOT create problems except for the criminals.
@Charles h - With all these guns in the hands of "law abiding citizens" why isn't crime dropping?
Because more guns = more sick people getting their hands on one.
Because more guns = more sick people getting their hands on one.
And This Too Shall Pass
@Kalifornya kid - You apparently do not under the dynamics of most crimes such as this.
The truth is, violent crime is the worst in all of the US cities with the most restrictive gun laws.
There is no direct link between sick people and guns. Evil is evil. Violent is violent. Ever take a look at the alarming number of murders in some other countries? Violent people will find what ever weapons they can if they intend to kill.
As a soldier you should know that it is foolish to take a knife to a gun fight. Peace is obtained through the use of superior firepower. Period.
Take care kid.
The truth is, violent crime is the worst in all of the US cities with the most restrictive gun laws.
There is no direct link between sick people and guns. Evil is evil. Violent is violent. Ever take a look at the alarming number of murders in some other countries? Violent people will find what ever weapons they can if they intend to kill.
As a soldier you should know that it is foolish to take a knife to a gun fight. Peace is obtained through the use of superior firepower. Period.
Take care kid.
Freedom Isn't Free... thank a soldier today.
@Hueydriver - Hate breeds hate. Superior firepower works for a time but has ALWAYS throughout history has been defeated (think USSR and Afghanistan, us and Vietnam). Every great nation has fallen by the wayside for a verity of reasons.
My reasoning says that every day more and more people get weapons to defend themselves. Therefore, everyday crime should drop a bit as more and more people arm themselves. How many weapons were sold last year? A million? Crime should be dropping like a rock. But is isn't.
Bad guys can not go out and legally buy a gun but the ALWAYS has access to getting one. Why? Because there are so many out there. We need to control them (not disarm as some people advocate). If it suddenly cost ten thousand dollars for a "Saturday night special", crime would drop.
On another note Hueydriver, I don't know how I gave you the impression I was ever in the service but they wouldn't take me. In fact after failing to get in, I was classified as 1-E on my draft card (If I remember right). It was, I could be called up after everyone else was dead and they were really desperate.
Anyway, it's good to hear from you again. Hope all is well with your kids. I think we all agree this is a real tragedy that need to stop.
My reasoning says that every day more and more people get weapons to defend themselves. Therefore, everyday crime should drop a bit as more and more people arm themselves. How many weapons were sold last year? A million? Crime should be dropping like a rock. But is isn't.
Bad guys can not go out and legally buy a gun but the ALWAYS has access to getting one. Why? Because there are so many out there. We need to control them (not disarm as some people advocate). If it suddenly cost ten thousand dollars for a "Saturday night special", crime would drop.
On another note Hueydriver, I don't know how I gave you the impression I was ever in the service but they wouldn't take me. In fact after failing to get in, I was classified as 1-E on my draft card (If I remember right). It was, I could be called up after everyone else was dead and they were really desperate.
Anyway, it's good to hear from you again. Hope all is well with your kids. I think we all agree this is a real tragedy that need to stop.
And This Too Shall Pass
@Kalifornya kid - Not trying to plug the NRA... but you would not see this happen at an NRA meeting.
If good people looked to empower themselfs more with the CFP - these evil folks wouldn't beable to fantisise as easlly about "hunting" people, when the thought is there to remind them, there might be some armed folks that CAN shoot back and defend themselves.
Death unknown is scarier than a death that is known and fixed to these sorts.
Goodspeed to those that have fallen today.
Peace to those that love them.
If good people looked to empower themselfs more with the CFP - these evil folks wouldn't beable to fantisise as easlly about "hunting" people, when the thought is there to remind them, there might be some armed folks that CAN shoot back and defend themselves.
Death unknown is scarier than a death that is known and fixed to these sorts.
Goodspeed to those that have fallen today.
Peace to those that love them.
@Neilson - I would agree about the NRA meeting. I am guessing the wouldn't even consider serving alcohol drinks before one.
It looks to me like the NRA types think MORE weapons will solve the problem. I beg to differ. More weapons = more killing in my book. In anthropology you can see over and over again, few weapons, little killing. Bring in new weapons and the killing increases. Study the history of the Native American, for example. Before Europeans there were wars where dozens died. After the Europeans supplied them with horses and rifles, hundreds and hundreds died in tribal wars.
It looks to me like the NRA types think MORE weapons will solve the problem. I beg to differ. More weapons = more killing in my book. In anthropology you can see over and over again, few weapons, little killing. Bring in new weapons and the killing increases. Study the history of the Native American, for example. Before Europeans there were wars where dozens died. After the Europeans supplied them with horses and rifles, hundreds and hundreds died in tribal wars.
And This Too Shall Pass
@Kalifornya kid - In most cultures where there was not a strong stance of equal defense, there is a strong record of abuse by others more stronger. This would bring to mind the fact the UK and Canada have seen an increase of home burglary's and personal assaults in homes since their disbarment.
The evil thugs are still out there getting guns as the factory's have not stopped making them nor has the need dropped, period. A 45 min. plane ride across the water to Belgium and two hour ride back to the England, will fix you lack of a gun in the UK.
In a global society that has and creates a culture where weapons are "cool" and so needed by our hero's and so wanted by bad people to abuse, a good person needs to realize pretending that the utopia of "no weapons" is being truly deceived, and should travel a bit more to see the world they live.
I for one would gladly lay down my weapon... after the armed threat to my home, family and life does as well. But even then, in the world we live... I would keep an eye on where I laid it down.
The ideologues for a gun free utopia have a great idea... it just hasn't worked out, yet. Fix the fight then lose the weapon... not the other way around.
The evil thugs are still out there getting guns as the factory's have not stopped making them nor has the need dropped, period. A 45 min. plane ride across the water to Belgium and two hour ride back to the England, will fix you lack of a gun in the UK.
In a global society that has and creates a culture where weapons are "cool" and so needed by our hero's and so wanted by bad people to abuse, a good person needs to realize pretending that the utopia of "no weapons" is being truly deceived, and should travel a bit more to see the world they live.
I for one would gladly lay down my weapon... after the armed threat to my home, family and life does as well. But even then, in the world we live... I would keep an eye on where I laid it down.
The ideologues for a gun free utopia have a great idea... it just hasn't worked out, yet. Fix the fight then lose the weapon... not the other way around.
@Neilson - As long as the bad guy can easily get guns, I think it is foolish to disarm people. My goal would be to make it expensive and difficult for everyone to get guns by getting rid of most of them and the ones that are left would cost so much, bad guys would need to rob a dozen banks to buy one.
This won't happen because the NRA and gun manufactures care more about $ than they do victims. I find it most ironic that the people that make guns to protect you are the very same people that make guns to be used against you. Gun manufactures have got it made.
This won't happen because the NRA and gun manufactures care more about $ than they do victims. I find it most ironic that the people that make guns to protect you are the very same people that make guns to be used against you. Gun manufactures have got it made.
And This Too Shall Pass
@Neilson - I would agree about the NRA meeting. I am guessing the wouldn't even consider serving alcohol drinks before one.
It looks to me like the NRA types think MORE weapons will solve the problem. I beg to differ. More weapons = more killing in my book. In anthropology you can see over and over again, few weapons, little killing. Bring in new weapons and the killing increases. Study the history of the Native American, for example. Before Europeans there were wars where dozens died. After the Europeans supplied them with horses and rifles, hundreds and hundreds died in tribal wars.
It looks to me like the NRA types think MORE weapons will solve the problem. I beg to differ. More weapons = more killing in my book. In anthropology you can see over and over again, few weapons, little killing. Bring in new weapons and the killing increases. Study the history of the Native American, for example. Before Europeans there were wars where dozens died. After the Europeans supplied them with horses and rifles, hundreds and hundreds died in tribal wars.
And This Too Shall Pass
@Kalifornya kid - Where were you hiding during all the chaos San Francisco kid? You missed your opportunity to save lives and demonstrate the value of "education" and "negotiation" in a time of crisis. If only you could have been there. Certainly all this guy needed was a friend and a lisenting ear. You could have walked in with your "I'm gay and pro-abortion" shirt and smoked a peace pipe with this guy and put an end to the whole ordeal. He just needed someone to "educate" him about the evil nature of guns in his misguided frenzy. You let us all down kid. Now you'll have to live with that for the rest of your meaningless life.
@Jason T. - with the response to Kalifornya Kid(I believe it's a poser), the Kumbayiah folks think holding hands and expressing "love" will resolve the sick low lifes who commit these heinous actions. News Flash for the "Kid"-it won't. Not ever. Get real, and quit being afraid to get involved in reality, not your fantasy world of marginal bud.
Thanks Jason for your articulate response to these poser cretins.
Thanks Jason for your articulate response to these poser cretins.
@Jason T. - Hiding? Do you mean letting the police do the job they are paid to do? I supposed I could have gone in and done my "Dirty Harry" thing and saved them all a bunch of trouble but I was in LA at the time. Crime won't wait.
On the other hand where were you last night when they needed you? You could have worn your "I hate gays and everybody else" t-shirt, walked up to the bad guy and pulled out your mommas 45 and said "go ahead, make my day, cause I'm your worse nightmare". He would have started laughing so hard at you he would have dropped his gun and you could have shot him. Then you would have finally been that hero that you dream of being every night.
Oh well. Thanks to the NRA you will soon get another chance and another and another...
On the other hand where were you last night when they needed you? You could have worn your "I hate gays and everybody else" t-shirt, walked up to the bad guy and pulled out your mommas 45 and said "go ahead, make my day, cause I'm your worse nightmare". He would have started laughing so hard at you he would have dropped his gun and you could have shot him. Then you would have finally been that hero that you dream of being every night.
Oh well. Thanks to the NRA you will soon get another chance and another and another...
And This Too Shall Pass
@Kalifornya kid - Where do you get your info. A lot of places have had violent crimes drop. Maybe you should do some reading. Take a look at California and Chicago. Some of the most strict gun laws. Are they free of crimes involving guns. No, Infact some of the most crimes. There is one city that has almost no crime. They have a law that you have to own a firearm.
Criminals are going to target people they know cant protect themselves.
Someone should ask the politicians like Hiliary Clinton and Ted Kennedy if they are willing to give up having armed body guards. Lets find out just how much they believe those laws will save them from harm!!!!
Criminals are going to target people they know cant protect themselves.
Someone should ask the politicians like Hiliary Clinton and Ted Kennedy if they are willing to give up having armed body guards. Lets find out just how much they believe those laws will save them from harm!!!!
@Mark W. - Same place you get yours. Many more have not have a drop in crime or a very small drop. In Calif, when I was living there all you had to do to get around the gun laws was go to a gun show. No waiting, any name would do, especially if you bought from out of state collector/dealer. Most of the gun crimes in Chicago and LA are by young gang members. Where do they get their guns?
And This Too Shall Pass
hope nobody got hurt...
enough tragedies had happened lately
NO MORE PLEASE!
OR pretty soon we won't be able to leave our homes just to protect ourselves and loved ones from getting hurt just because of the morons that play around with guns, alcohol and driving, and doing drugs.
enough tragedies had happened lately
NO MORE PLEASE!
OR pretty soon we won't be able to leave our homes just to protect ourselves and loved ones from getting hurt just because of the morons that play around with guns, alcohol and driving, and doing drugs.
***
@Vmarshall - These gunman are nothing but a bunch of losers trying to act tough while gunning down innocent people. How evil is that? I hope they catch the second gunman soon.
my daughter is working in the hard rock cafe. she says they're on the floor in a back room an they're ok. please pray for everyone affected by this. Heavenly Father listens.
@Mary R. - I have a good friend who works at Hard Rock and know many of her friends who work there. I've been leaving voice mail messages all night - no reply. THANK YOU for the Hard Rock employee report!!!
Second shooter still in building.
@Knwldge - Did I miss something? I thought there was only one shooter? I did not see this in the article on ksl or on the tv. There was a second shooter?
@Gail B. - A person from inside one of the stores called in and said someone was shooting in the store. This was after the first shooter was confirmed dead by PD. It now seems that the woman who called in was confused.
@Gail B. - They thought that temporarily. They've now ruled it out.
@Jencw3 - Hey mom,whats up?
Thinking is not an option
@Bajo de perro - Not much. You staying out of trouble, or are you out trolling again?
@Jencw3 - subject you and son are s-um
@Lurch - Explain to me what is trollish about my post. Underdog (that's his original name) for SOME reason always calls me "mom" on these boards. Don't ask me why. He asked me what's up and I asked if he's staying out of trouble on the boards or if he's out trolling, because he's a KNOWN troller on the boards and he's usually saying something completely absurd. And now I get voted a troll??? Apparently people didn't read the definition of a troll before they just start randomly voting people as a troll! If you don't know what "troll" means, here's a hint... DON'T VOTE PEOPLE AS TROLLS.
For all of you who like to bash cops..... That's why we're here.
@The germ - Thank heavens for that cop, and all of those out there risking their lives for us! I am in awe that he, as well as the other police officers, would risk his life to protect us all. He even went as far as to warn (Police! Drop the gun!) the shooter and give him one last chance to save his own life. To any officer of the law that may be reading, thank you!
5 People dead, Multi-agency response...... For all of you who like to bash cops. That's why we're here
@The germ - they are cops best friends.
Cops are best friends to Concealed Carry Holders too.
At times like this, I wish I could go help.
All i have to say is what kind of coward does this?
Cops are best friends to Concealed Carry Holders too.
At times like this, I wish I could go help.
All i have to say is what kind of coward does this?
--< SLC Climber >--
@Slc_climber - I hope it was a concealed weapon holder that killed the 'suspect'.
What is the proper role of government?
@The germ - ...the front line.
fast. straight. safe. practice. carry.
fast. straight. safe. practice. carry.
Cynthia McKinney is one of the most intelligent democrats in the country.
-- Ann Coulter
-- Ann Coulter
@Agnoscet - If you, the reader would like more information go to http://www.packing.org/state/utah/
--< SLC Climber >--
@Agnoscet - I wonder if any of the people who fled the mall in fear were concealed weapons permit holders. You guys are all thumping your chest and saying that a concealed weapon permit holder is just like, or even better than, having a cop there, but there is a big difference. A cop is sworn to protect us and trains constantly to do so. I’ve said it before on this comment board, there is a big difference between firing on a paper target and drawing a bead on a live person. In the heat of a real crisis how many would run towards the sound of gunfire? I’m pretty sure that most of you, unless directly threatened by the shooter, would retreat and let the cops handle it. You may now proceed to call me a troll.
It's showtime!
What can we do to stop this. This is like columbine, but on a full public basis. Do we put metal detecters in shopping centers? This is very serious!
@Corey H. - ...by Dr. John Lott, there is very little that dissuades a suicidal mass shooter. Harsher sentences mean nothing to someone who intends to die in the act of his crime either at his own hands, or by committing "suicide by cop." The disarming of law abiding citizens certainly does NOT stop criminals.
The ONLY thing that works is to make it easier for law abiding citizens to legally carry guns for self-defense.
As others have pointed out, these criminals are cowards. He picked a downtown shopping mall where he figured most everyone would be defenseless. He did NOT attack a police station, or a gun store or a shooting range.
Arm the law abiding citizens and these kinds of things happen less often, and when the do happen, they end a lot sooner, with few causalties.
The ONLY thing that works is to make it easier for law abiding citizens to legally carry guns for self-defense.
As others have pointed out, these criminals are cowards. He picked a downtown shopping mall where he figured most everyone would be defenseless. He did NOT attack a police station, or a gun store or a shooting range.
Arm the law abiding citizens and these kinds of things happen less often, and when the do happen, they end a lot sooner, with few causalties.
@Charles h - If he would have known that there was a possibility that at least a few dozen of the mall shoppers might have their guns on them he might have reconsidered. Who knows? The world couldn't have enough guns in the hands of trustworthy people. We all need our concealed licenses.
@Charles h - You're stretching awfuly far on that one Charles H. For all the garbage you give people for making up their own statistics and facts you sure have a knack for blowing wind up peoples asses.
Your logic is biased and flawed.....it's called fallacy.
Your logic is biased and flawed.....it's called fallacy.
@Aron H. - your talking points "Little Quote Book" issued to the hysterical masses of non-thinking reactionaries.
Dr. Lott's statistics, often are used to de-bunk the hysteria and blatant pandering of those who seek to take away our civil rights in the name of "security and freedom". The only flatulence comes from the intentional and horrible mistating of "facts" by Handgun Control, Inc and others like them who consistently refer to drug dealers as "youths". Instead of misleading the public, how about you getting a real education and SEEING more than your own myopic viewpoint? It's O.K., you are an adult(I'm assuming and taking a risk in implying that) and can make good decisions all on your own, without your hand-wringing drum circle associates.
Dr. Lott's statistics, often are used to de-bunk the hysteria and blatant pandering of those who seek to take away our civil rights in the name of "security and freedom". The only flatulence comes from the intentional and horrible mistating of "facts" by Handgun Control, Inc and others like them who consistently refer to drug dealers as "youths". Instead of misleading the public, how about you getting a real education and SEEING more than your own myopic viewpoint? It's O.K., you are an adult(I'm assuming and taking a risk in implying that) and can make good decisions all on your own, without your hand-wringing drum circle associates.
@Corey H. - Get educated on firearms and get a ccw and a good carry weapon so the next time this happens in our community it will be short and there wont be injuries/fatalities by the masses.
if I was there and saw the shooter. no doubt about it 14 rounds right into the suspect's upper torso problem solved.
what a terrible event to happen. My prayers and thoughts are with all those effective by this incident.
if I was there and saw the shooter. no doubt about it 14 rounds right into the suspect's upper torso problem solved.
what a terrible event to happen. My prayers and thoughts are with all those effective by this incident.
Homeland security is an armed citizen
Quick justice. Get rid of them right on the spot. No questions. No expense.
Where Is Wisdom?
@Hardtaill - If only that could really happen. Idiots like these should just be put down, like rabid dogs. Why should we as a society give them a paid vacation for the rest of their lives? Why not put it toward education etc. for those of us who appreciate life and want to see it get better?
@Hardtaill - If only that could really happen. Idiots like these should just be put down, like rabid dogs. Why should we as a society give them a paid vacation for the rest of their lives? Why not put it toward education etc. for those of us who appreciate life and want to see it get better?
@Kenny A. - You, my man, are a fool.
Where Is Wisdom?
@Hardtaill - A one line statement doesn't do much to support the "fool" assertion. Which part didn't you agree with? The fact that a bullet saved thousands in taxpayer dollars, or the fact that the criminal's rights were someone impacted?
Or is it possible that you are currently enjoying taxpayer privileges at this very moment?
Which one is it?
Or is it possible that you are currently enjoying taxpayer privileges at this very moment?
Which one is it?
@Kenny A. - What is wrong with you, One thing is if this was happening in another city. But this is happening in your home town. What if it was someone you know that got shot. I bet you will feel like a jerk then. What if it was your friend or realative or maybe you dont have friends that shop? Kenny A. get a life or cable the progtaming wont get interupted on those channels.
@Adamari O. - Adamari O. says:
What is wrong with you, One thing is if this was happening in another city. But this is happening in your home town. What if it was someone you know that got shot. I bet you will feel like a jerk then...
Then, I likely wouldn't know about it anyway because, at this point in time and, likely, by even the 10 p.m. news, no names are being released and, I'd likely find out about it from the police department before I'd hear it on the news, in the first place.
Further, my hearing the breaking news continuously isn't going to save him/her...is it?
What is wrong with you, One thing is if this was happening in another city. But this is happening in your home town. What if it was someone you know that got shot. I bet you will feel like a jerk then...
Then, I likely wouldn't know about it anyway because, at this point in time and, likely, by even the 10 p.m. news, no names are being released and, I'd likely find out about it from the police department before I'd hear it on the news, in the first place.
Further, my hearing the breaking news continuously isn't going to save him/her...is it?
@Kenny A. - what's wrong with you, people are dying and you're worried about a stupid tv show?
@Moon River - Moon River says:
what's wrong with you, people are dying and you're worried about a stupid tv show?
People are dying every second of our individual lives. If I were to dwell and fret over every single person that was dying in this world on a moment-by-moment basis, my life would be a wreck.
what's wrong with you, people are dying and you're worried about a stupid tv show?
People are dying every second of our individual lives. If I were to dwell and fret over every single person that was dying in this world on a moment-by-moment basis, my life would be a wreck.
@Kenny A. - I was wondering the same thing when the crazy lady walked up on the big mormon dude and screamed that we we are all going to die while he was speaking!! Just let them be okay, and tell me the rest at 10 tonight. KSL rules!
@Kenny A. - Kenny didn't say it very well, so let me try.
A shooting incident is more important than out mindless entertainment - even "24" (close call). But I got pretty annoyed when they broke into programming for the THIRD time with NOTHING new to add. The talking heads went on and on, speculating about what happened, repeating themselves, and stumbling like drunks because they had no script on the teleprompter. By 9:00, even the police weren't giving out any details yet, so all we were getting was mindless DRIVEL from the talking heads.
But I think the "babble" award goes to Terry Wood on KTVX. They stayed on the air with continuous "coverage" (of nothing) for two hours. As I tuned around the stations, I started wondering if there was more than one Trolley Square. Either that, or each TV station was being broadcast from an alternate universe. There was one (or two) shooters. There was 1 or 5 or 12 dead, and "several" injured. The media was so desperate for facts, and there were none to be had. But that didn't deter the talking heads - they just made up something. This isn't news, it's sensationalism. I'm writing this just before 10:00, and no one has any "facts" yet. I think I'll just go to bed and see if anyone has sorted out the "facts" by morning.
A shooting incident is more important than out mindless entertainment - even "24" (close call). But I got pretty annoyed when they broke into programming for the THIRD time with NOTHING new to add. The talking heads went on and on, speculating about what happened, repeating themselves, and stumbling like drunks because they had no script on the teleprompter. By 9:00, even the police weren't giving out any details yet, so all we were getting was mindless DRIVEL from the talking heads.
But I think the "babble" award goes to Terry Wood on KTVX. They stayed on the air with continuous "coverage" (of nothing) for two hours. As I tuned around the stations, I started wondering if there was more than one Trolley Square. Either that, or each TV station was being broadcast from an alternate universe. There was one (or two) shooters. There was 1 or 5 or 12 dead, and "several" injured. The media was so desperate for facts, and there were none to be had. But that didn't deter the talking heads - they just made up something. This isn't news, it's sensationalism. I'm writing this just before 10:00, and no one has any "facts" yet. I think I'll just go to bed and see if anyone has sorted out the "facts" by morning.
I'm fascinated by work. I could watch people do it for hours.
My mom works at Green Street and she's called multiple times. Everyone from Green Street is OK. They finally evacuated but now they are all sitting out on the street and can't leave and well someone please tell the police that they feel like sitting ducks.
because some of us have family and friends there. my mom has called multiple times. she works at green street and they are all okay they finally got evacuated but now someone please tell the police they feel like sitting ducks out there on the street corner where they CAN'T leave.
The live tv breaking news seems to only consist of "live shots" of an empty parking lot, "terrified eye witnesses" waving at the cameras and spelling their names who witnessed nothing more than gunshots and broken glass, and stalling reporters.
Way to make your quota for breaking news airtime, KSL.
Way to make your quota for breaking news airtime, KSL.
Just because you have seen it on t.v. doesn't mean others have. Perhaps people have family members that are trapped inside, or worse, dead. Don't you think you should have respect for those people who count on the news to bring them the news as they get it? Have a little respect. Those poor people. Like "24" is more important--try a little perspective.
"shooter was about 6’1”, wearing a dark trench coat, carrying a backpack. That witness says the suspect was wielding a shotgun at his shoulder and taking aim"
First the schools, now the malls?
First the schools, now the malls?
there is a guy that got grazed by a bullet, but another guy says that the shooter had a shotgun. a shotgun would blow a head off
@rapid12367 - A shotgun blast at a 20 foot distance will stay in a 3 inch diameter. If the guy was on the second floor it is highly possible to be hit by one of the buck shot pellets!
@Chrystal C. - a shotgun will spread 5 times more than that in 20 feet. where did you come up with that info?
@Goldmember - From a short barrel or sawed-off yes, but a standard shot gun takes more than 20 feet to spread more than six inches apart. Whatever the case who knows how far apart they were from each other when the shot was fired. All I do know is it is possible he was just grazed on the head!
@Chrystal C. - Sorry, but I have taught hunter ed for years and am an AVID duck hunter.
A shotgun with a full choke in will spread almost 4 feet across in less than 20 feet. Closer to 15 feet. If you use a turkey choke (the tightest choke made) you can have a 12 inch patter at about 10 feet. Less than 5 feet, the pattern is tight and almost always the shape of a square. (for more info go to firearmsid.com)
A sawed-off or home defense type barrel (18") will achieve a full spread in under 20 feet.
One possible explanation on what happened at Trolley Square is that 1 oz. lead slugs could have been used or the plastic wading may have hit him.
Not that it really matters, but I thought you should get your facts straight.
Utah, go get your Concealed Firearm Permits!!!
Take back the streets, your homes and public places.
DO NOT LET THESE LOOSERS CONTROL YOU!!!
A shotgun with a full choke in will spread almost 4 feet across in less than 20 feet. Closer to 15 feet. If you use a turkey choke (the tightest choke made) you can have a 12 inch patter at about 10 feet. Less than 5 feet, the pattern is tight and almost always the shape of a square. (for more info go to firearmsid.com)
A sawed-off or home defense type barrel (18") will achieve a full spread in under 20 feet.
One possible explanation on what happened at Trolley Square is that 1 oz. lead slugs could have been used or the plastic wading may have hit him.
Not that it really matters, but I thought you should get your facts straight.
Utah, go get your Concealed Firearm Permits!!!
Take back the streets, your homes and public places.
DO NOT LET THESE LOOSERS CONTROL YOU!!!
Johnny D
@Goldmember - I hear that 83 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.
@Alan E. - In light of the circumstances I think that comment was lame and offensive, so double offensive, and they who made the comment should just get the He#$ out.
I can't believe you people care more about a T.V. show than these poor people at Trolley Square. So they "interrupted" your T.V. show. Wah wah! At least you are not at Trolley Square. Insensitive.
@Gumbo Soup - Gumbo Soup says:
At least you are not at Trolley Square.
That's cuz I was more worried about my stupid TV show. Saved my life, probly.
At least you are not at Trolley Square.
That's cuz I was more worried about my stupid TV show. Saved my life, probly.
@Gumbo Soup - I live right by Trolley Square. I should have been in Trolley Square having dinner at Rodizio Grill. I am still angry about missing my shows. Not that I don't care about the people, but I can't do anything about it.
@RoxyDuck - What, so you could be lying in some morgue right now? Yeah, better than having to miss your precious shows.
@Littlemomma - You agree with Roxy? I'm just stating the truth. Life is real. There are 5 people dead today and five families left with pain, sorrow, and whatever else comes with tragedy. I've lost 2 brothers in life.
I live kitty corner from Trolley Square.
The shootings were in the south building where Rodizio's and Spaghetti Factory are located.
They got 1st gunman and looking for the 2nd one.
The shootings were in the south building where Rodizio's and Spaghetti Factory are located.
They got 1st gunman and looking for the 2nd one.
I have a friend that was eating dinner at a restraunt there. He said that he thinks there are at least five dead. he said his waiter was shot.
Tell us something else you don't know and show the repetitive footage of the same eyewitnesses again.
To all of the people worried about their precious television shows: people are dead! Show some respect. The media is covering this because the majority of people have souls and are worried about what is happening. They want to know what is going on and how the victims are doing. If you don't want to watch just turn off your t.v.-I'm sure you'll live if you miss an episode. Get a life.
@lwat19 - The reporters have not reported that anyone is dead. Only that five people are down - including one shooter.
@disappointed viewer - Shut it...seriously just bust your tv until you have some perspective on life.. you're pathetic.
@disappointed viewer - I believe the police have said "multiple" fatalities. In case you don't know what that means, more than one person is dead.
@disappointed viewer - It may very well be true. Someone who heard the police report, likely on a scanner, just posted a report of 5 dead. Someone else just posted that his friends waiter at the restaurant he was eating at was shot.
What about all the poor people who's family members work or are shopping or eating there? Don't you think they want to have a continual report to update them and find out about what is already known as soon as they turn on the TV. There may very well be people who come home and turn on the TV 30 minutes into this hour-long report and hear about this that really want to know. May be they need to call someone to see if they're OK or if they have been taken to the hospital. Just try for a second to put yourself into the situation.
Why in the world do you care so much about a stupid TV show? A TV show that is likely full of violence anyway. I peronally think the news gets too carried away and sensational about news events, but this one is significant. If you're so adicted to a TV show that interrupting it with this kind of report disturbs you, you should probably rethink your life or try to inmprove your character.
Think about someone besides "number one" for once!
What about all the poor people who's family members work or are shopping or eating there? Don't you think they want to have a continual report to update them and find out about what is already known as soon as they turn on the TV. There may very well be people who come home and turn on the TV 30 minutes into this hour-long report and hear about this that really want to know. May be they need to call someone to see if they're OK or if they have been taken to the hospital. Just try for a second to put yourself into the situation.
Why in the world do you care so much about a stupid TV show? A TV show that is likely full of violence anyway. I peronally think the news gets too carried away and sensational about news events, but this one is significant. If you're so adicted to a TV show that interrupting it with this kind of report disturbs you, you should probably rethink your life or try to inmprove your character.
Think about someone besides "number one" for once!
@Jonathan L. - Jonathan L. says:
What about all the poor people who's family members work or are shopping or eating there?
They likely got a cell phone call or breaking news e-mail in their inbox and, probably knew about it before the story even broke on TV.
Don't you think they want to have a continual report to update them and find out about what is already known as soon as they turn on the TV.
The key word here is: "continual report to UPDATE" them. However, there were no updates. It was nothing more than regurgitated repetition of what was already said.
There may very well be people who come home and turn on the TV 30 minutes into this hour-long report and hear about this that really want to know.
Actually, I find this highly unlikely with the advent of cell phones. Nine chances out of ten, they already knew about it and, no one came home 30 minutes into that hour-long report to find out anything they didn't already know. They either heard about it on the radio. Received a cell phone call. Received a text message. Or, received a breaking news alert on their cell phone e-mail account.
May be they need to call someone to see if they're OK or if they have been taken to the hospital. Just try for a second to put yourself into the situation.
If someone needs to be called to see if they're OK, nine chances out of ten, the individual they need to call to find out if they're OK has a cell phone and, they've already called them to tell them they're OK. And, as far as having to call to see if anyone had to go to the hospital? Who you going to call? If the individual who's being taken to the hospital is incapable of answering the phone, who are you going to call to see if they're OK?
Why in the world do you care so much about a stupid TV show? A TV show that is likely full of violence anyway.
Is this opposed to the real-life violence that we're discussing here?
I peronally think the news gets too carried away and sensational about news events, but this one is significant. If you're so adicted to a TV show that interrupting it with this kind of report disturbs you, you should probably rethink your life or try to inmprove your character.
Why, because we're not glued to our TVs 24-7 listening to the real-life crap that's going on in the world? Maybe, for some folks, their television programs take them away from all the real-life horse crap that's going on in the world and helps prevent them from going insane...huh?
Now, again, if they have something more than "Uhhh...I don't know," and, "we're still investigating," and, "no names have been released yet," and, "various different hostpitals
What about all the poor people who's family members work or are shopping or eating there?
They likely got a cell phone call or breaking news e-mail in their inbox and, probably knew about it before the story even broke on TV.
Don't you think they want to have a continual report to update them and find out about what is already known as soon as they turn on the TV.
The key word here is: "continual report to UPDATE" them. However, there were no updates. It was nothing more than regurgitated repetition of what was already said.
There may very well be people who come home and turn on the TV 30 minutes into this hour-long report and hear about this that really want to know.
Actually, I find this highly unlikely with the advent of cell phones. Nine chances out of ten, they already knew about it and, no one came home 30 minutes into that hour-long report to find out anything they didn't already know. They either heard about it on the radio. Received a cell phone call. Received a text message. Or, received a breaking news alert on their cell phone e-mail account.
May be they need to call someone to see if they're OK or if they have been taken to the hospital. Just try for a second to put yourself into the situation.
If someone needs to be called to see if they're OK, nine chances out of ten, the individual they need to call to find out if they're OK has a cell phone and, they've already called them to tell them they're OK. And, as far as having to call to see if anyone had to go to the hospital? Who you going to call? If the individual who's being taken to the hospital is incapable of answering the phone, who are you going to call to see if they're OK?
Why in the world do you care so much about a stupid TV show? A TV show that is likely full of violence anyway.
Is this opposed to the real-life violence that we're discussing here?
I peronally think the news gets too carried away and sensational about news events, but this one is significant. If you're so adicted to a TV show that interrupting it with this kind of report disturbs you, you should probably rethink your life or try to inmprove your character.
Why, because we're not glued to our TVs 24-7 listening to the real-life crap that's going on in the world? Maybe, for some folks, their television programs take them away from all the real-life horse crap that's going on in the world and helps prevent them from going insane...huh?
Now, again, if they have something more than "Uhhh...I don't know," and, "we're still investigating," and, "no names have been released yet," and, "various different hostpitals
Oh dear, people haven't been able to get to their cars for 40 minutes.
HEROES IS ON. Your "no news" breaking news is not more important than Matt Parkman taking a job as a body guard. Somebody flies and somebody dies. You've been pushing it all week, so let me watch it.
HEROES IS ON. Your "no news" breaking news is not more important than Matt Parkman taking a job as a body guard. Somebody flies and somebody dies. You've been pushing it all week, so let me watch it.
@disappointed viewer - it is no big deal that maybe up to 5 people are dead. Just another day, huh?
And isn't it a shame that Heroes will never be repeated even this week? OH? Maybe it will, yes indeed it will. On the Sci-Fi channel. If you don't want to know when tragedy strikes around you, watch cable. Your compassion is overwhelming.
And isn't it a shame that Heroes will never be repeated even this week? OH? Maybe it will, yes indeed it will. On the Sci-Fi channel. If you don't want to know when tragedy strikes around you, watch cable. Your compassion is overwhelming.
@Bonnie P. - I was shocked to hear about the shooting and my prayers go out to all the victums. For those of you who are upset about missing Heroes, get over yourself & download it off the internet. It will be on nbc.com tomorrow.
My prayers go out to all the victims and their families.
According to best research, by Dr. John Lott, this is exactly the kind of situation that begs for armed citizens. Private citizens being armed reduce the number of casualities in this multi-victim schootings.
I saw one fellow on the news who was looking for something to throw at the shooter. Which is exactly why I choose to be armed: because I can't throw rocks at 1300 feet per second.
According to best research, by Dr. John Lott, this is exactly the kind of situation that begs for armed citizens. Private citizens being armed reduce the number of casualities in this multi-victim schootings.
I saw one fellow on the news who was looking for something to throw at the shooter. Which is exactly why I choose to be armed: because I can't throw rocks at 1300 feet per second.
All this does is show other phsycos how to get attention and make me miss a TV show all you ever do is show all the Evil in the world it is no wonder the world is so crazy. Thanks again for making me miss a show. I am with the guy above it is movie time.
@Nick G. - Like your tv shows are that much better.... seen the previews... would rather watch the news.... when tv becomes more important than real people.. you better take a deep look at yourself...
@Nick G. - I do agree with the first part of this comment. Its very true that by showing something over and over, others are more likely to follow. I appreciate a good and informative news story but sometimes the media is pathetic. They are desperate for coverage of something- even if not all of the facts are straight. It is important that the community is aware of a tragedy like this and works to prevent it but it shouldnt be the focus of everyones lives for the next week or whatever. Instead of talking over and over about "the shooter" why not talk about something productive like how we might keep an individual like this from getting to this point and results in taking the lives of others.
Okay news stations. You told us what happened - what can we learn from it?
Okay news stations. You told us what happened - what can we learn from it?
Will these be shown later on? I see no point in this live coverage. Sure let us know about it, and then save it for 10PM.
@zammsmom - is having useless information going to do anything? is anyone going to do anything different than go "oh my, my prays go out to them"? so why interrupt the programming? that is why people watch the news, for the news. if you were anyone important to someone down there, they would call you on their cell phone. if they died then they wouldnt release names at that time anyway until family members are notified.
It is a big deal and TV can wait how would you feel if you or someone you knew was living or working around the area that this shooter was running around in. Wouldn't you want people to know about this so they could help spot the guy! It is repetitive but that is how they catch people like that!!!
@Jenika P. - I know, people are dying and all these people can talk about is their dumb tv show. And also, i dont know why people are bragging about carrying around guns too...aren't they just supporting that behavior?
@Jenika P. - Jenika P. who might've worked at ZCMI 10 years ago? Just wondering.
@Littlemomma - I know it was off-topic. Save your voting for someone else.
@Littlemomma - Then use your personal email and not on this board
This is a story about some nut killing someone that might have been a firend or relative and your trying to rekindle old friendships?
Your an Id--t
ijmho
This is a story about some nut killing someone that might have been a firend or relative and your trying to rekindle old friendships?
Your an Id--t
ijmho
People are dead. People are wounded. This is horrible. And you are worried about missing a tv show that you can watch again in 6 weeks when it reruns. Would you be this insensitive if any of these people were someone you loved?
If you're not outraged...You're not paying attention
@Lil\' red - People that make comments about missing their T.V. shows care about one thing and one thing only, themselves. They are the type of people that if someone close to them was killed or injured they would probably not really be phased. That is, if they allowed themselves to be close to people. They are heartless people and unfortunately the world is full of many of them. Shame on the people that were more interested in fictional T.V. then real life tragedies/happenings.
All this does is show all the phsycos out there how to get attention and make us miss good TV shows. All you ever show is the evil in the world no wonder it is so crazy. Thnanks again for making me miss my show.
@Nick G. - Not reporting on the evil in the world doesn't make it disappear. Would you rather pretend that everything is peachy?
@Nick G. - Like the tv shows you wanted to watch don't show the physco's how to do things... you must be physco to think those shows don't affect anyone.... Wow.. when did fake people become more important then real people... think about it...
@Nick G. - Last I checked, network tv has become almost worse to watch than cable. Your good tv shows aren't evil or don't have violence in them? No psychos there. Totally realistic!
@Littlemomma - Anybody know sarcasm when they see it? I was responding to Nick G. who missed his "good TV shows" which he believes do not portray evil or psychos going crazy on the network tv channels.
This is idiotic. It's all gawking and speculation. Let's get back to standard programmming until an official statement is released. This is not news its playing to the public interest in the horror of the moment.
@mwcarlson - I can't stand the speculation! It just raises fear and causes panic! Media is so crazy!
I think the media is doing a great job covering the shooting. I haved loved ones in the mall and I'd rather learn what's going as it happens. Sorry it's such an inconvenience for those that are missing their precious TV shows. Hopefully it doesn't happen to you! Have a little compassion for the folks that are in there or care for someone that's there!
i think we have seen enough coverage it been an hour of coverage . can we please get back to regular t.v . i'm sorry for all the people, but you have been repeating your self for an good hour enough is enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
An off duty Officer from Ogden shot the suspect.
He was having dinner and was there.
Just so you know.
He was having dinner and was there.
Just so you know.
@Macky - If this is in fact true, THANK GOD for men like him. If he hadn't been there and if he hadn't been carrying his weapon, who knows how high the body count could have been.
My prayers are with the families of the victims.
My prayers are with the families of the victims.
If its not the freeway than its the local networks. Come on, move on. Alright, there was a horrific scene of violence at Trolley Square. Can we get back to Hero's now? All this is just a bunch of gawking and speculation anyway.
I live right by this situation. I'm glad that there's news coverage so we know what's going on, and when it's safe for us to go out and such. Thank you, KSL!
My mom called again. They have moved some of the people outside inside the Hard Rock Cafe. Thank you for not letting them sit out on the streets like ducks.
All of you people whining about your show...You'll get to see your show. Some of us out here have friends and family down there. Some of us out here are scared right along with our friends and family. Try just for a moment to put yourself in our shoes. Try just for a moment to realize that the people of Utah no longer live in a glass bubble.
All of you people whining about your show...You'll get to see your show. Some of us out here have friends and family down there. Some of us out here are scared right along with our friends and family. Try just for a moment to put yourself in our shoes. Try just for a moment to realize that the people of Utah no longer live in a glass bubble.
@Jana S. - reporting this isnt going to change anything. police officers werent monitoring the chat forum, then realized they shouldnt have the people outside. i highly doubt they would have them outside if it wasnt safe.
MSNBC is reporting 5 dead, including the shooter, in a Philidelphia Navy Yard.
Weird coincident, IF that is all it is.
Weird coincident, IF that is all it is.
They keep repeating the same footage. This isn't breaking news and isn't promoting the cause.
I for one don't care about what the tv station doesn't know. I just want to know what they know. If I wanted minute by minute and what we knew twenty minute ago coverage, I would watch a station dedicated to news and not a prime time television station.
I for one don't care about what the tv station doesn't know. I just want to know what they know. If I wanted minute by minute and what we knew twenty minute ago coverage, I would watch a station dedicated to news and not a prime time television station.
[no swearing please] people, welcome to freakin' LA, every day.. I know this is big news for SLC but I'm pretty sure that a 2 minute update every 10 or 15 mins would suffice.. You've now been saying the exact same thing for over an hour.. Get real people, this happens daily in every other major city in the world.. It'd really not that big of a story.. I'm not trying to sound heartless, I'm sure I know people that were there when it went down.. I'm just saying that it's not the end of the freakin' world..
@Bob W. - i was in a mall in phoenix the other day and this shooter came in and started gunning people down and then the next day we went to another mall in
L.A. and there was another gunfight...but luckily jack bauer was there and shot the bad guy and then we went to another mall...oh wait this doesn't happen EVERY DAY...EVEN in L.A. so quite trying to diminuize the situation you jerk
L.A. and there was another gunfight...but luckily jack bauer was there and shot the bad guy and then we went to another mall...oh wait this doesn't happen EVERY DAY...EVEN in L.A. so quite trying to diminuize the situation you jerk
I just heard again from my daugher, a hard rock employee. They are letting people leave now, she just left. Please let's not be ugly. This is a stressful time for those of us with loved ones involved. But if it doesn't directly affect you, it probably does seem quite redundant. Let's hang in there together and pray for a successful outcome.
Yes, this is a tragedy and is horrible, BUT KSL really should stop covering until they have something to cover. The repetitive speculation only causes more problems. The media needs to back out and let the cops do their jobs.
What's wrong with you people? complaining about your dumb tv show. RELAX, they'll show it again. people are dying and families are worried and all you can talk about is your tv show?
And why do you brag about carrying around a gun? That's kinda contributing to the problem. If it weren't for guns in the hands of anyone but authority figures, we wouldn't have a situation tonight. And the other people wouldn't have missed the tv show! Seriously people.
And why do you brag about carrying around a gun? That's kinda contributing to the problem. If it weren't for guns in the hands of anyone but authority figures, we wouldn't have a situation tonight. And the other people wouldn't have missed the tv show! Seriously people.
@Moon River - As you and I exercise our 1st amendment right of Freedom of Speech, PLEASE keep in mind that there are other rights secured by the US Constitution including the right of citizens (not just the "authority figures") to keep and BEAR arms. (2nd amendment) Our founding fathers specifically included that right to ensure that the citizens of this great country could and would be able to defend themselves from a corrupt government. Every dictatorship in history has taken arms away from the citizens as one of the first steps in securing power. Please let us NOT go down that path...
If you take the weapons away from law-abiding citizens, then only the criminals will have them. Every country in the world that has outlawed private ownership of firearms has had a corresponding increase in violent crime. You figure it out...
If you take the weapons away from law-abiding citizens, then only the criminals will have them. Every country in the world that has outlawed private ownership of firearms has had a corresponding increase in violent crime. You figure it out...
@Aceohearts - i'm well aware of the amendments, thank you. but how do these people get guns in the first place? think about it...they're citizens too...i just think there should be more control on who should have a gun and for what purposes, etc. i re-read what i wrote and i can understand how you can mis-take it. i personally hate guns, and i have the right to think the way i do. if these people tonight didn't have guns available to them, whether by a more secure process or whatnot, innocent people would still be alive. if my father had not been able to obtain a gun, he would still be alive today. so many people have been struck w/ tradegy because of them. i just hate that anyone can just buy a gun.
@Moon River - There isn't a place in the world, including high security prisons, where people aren't shot and killed. You CAN'T seriously expect the problem to go away if they can't even solve it in countries with strict laws and strict police...or even in high security prisons.
I don't want to live in a high security prison (and still get shot anyway) so why much up our country and ourlaws so you can get a false sense of security?
I don't want to live in a high security prison (and still get shot anyway) so why much up our country and ourlaws so you can get a false sense of security?
@Moon River - If guns are outlawed than only outlaws will have guns. Lets see, this guy is an outlaw so he will still have his gun so......the idiot still shoots at people. outlaw all the firearms you want only law abiding citizens suffer in that scenario. once an idiot always an idiot you can't legislate people into being decent human beings. No law, be it with respect to firearms, or not can make anybody obey it just because it is written. it is already illegal to shoot people so how do you propose a law that absolutely guarantees all guns will be turned in by idiots that don't obey these laws to begin with.
@Moon River - If it weren't for our 2nd amendment right. The shooter would still have been gunning down innocent people instead of being put down by a good Samaratin with a concealed weapons permit.
@Moon River - moon you need to wake up ...just how would you keep outlaws from carring guns there is always going to be a way for criminals to get a gunthen that would leave the ones that want to defend ourselfs from nut cases helpless...if only authority figures were allowed to carry a fireare the off duty cop probably wouldnt have been packing and possibly dozens more ppl would have died tonight
@Moon River - What makes you think wackos like this guy legally purchase or obtain weapons? Do you think this person had a concealed weapons permit? I doubt it. More often than not, shooters have stolen weapons. I'm glad we have a right to bear arms. I don't think anyone should brag about it. But it is nice to be able to defend yourself, your family, or innocent people. I can't believe anyone is posting about missing a freakin network TV show. And for people talking about other cities-yeah, we know it happens and it is unfortunate. Maybe that's why we choose to live here-we hope it won't happen. There are a lot of transplanted Californians in Utah, and for reasons like LA..........
@Stephen R. - Before you start off on your gun control preaching. Think about if it happened and you were there and I was there too and I shot the retard just as he pointed the shotgun at you I bet you wouldn't want to take away my gun. or if the next school shooting ends because of a teacher carrying a concealed weapon would you take away that gun too?
Homeland security is an armed citizen
The coverage is the worst! The reporter won't stop talking in circles. It's an insult to my intelligence to watch. Please save the coverage for when you have actual information.
Put Heroes on or tell us it will be on later! This is not news, it is repeat over and over and over again, if you have some new information play it. If not let us watch our show, if people want to watch it 24/7 then they can watch another network.
Finally, we have something that qualifies as breaking news. KSL, this is breaking news. Why have we been watching 20 minutes of "looking for a second suspect" when there isn't one?
I work at Trolley Square Mall, I have coworkers who are there and I am conserned for their safety. I think that all of you people that are missing you TV shows, need to understand that people are Dead. And all you are conserned about your tv shows. Be glad that you were not there and shot to death.
I think that you should all be greatfull that you are alive and can still watch you tv shows later
I think that you should all be greatfull that you are alive and can still watch you tv shows later
Rolynos
@Rolynos - Has anybody really died besides the loser who started this tragedy? I hope not. The news is saying that they are all in area hospitals but nobody has died. So what's what? I am hoping nobody dies from this incident.
ooO_(_o__o_)_Ooo
http://videodaily.info
http://videodaily.info/go/parents.php
http://videodaily.info
http://videodaily.info/go/parents.php
@Rem - 6 if you count the shooter, which is tempting to not do.... Also 4-5 in the hospital 3 of which are in critical condition
Thanks for ruining Heros for us you morons. Yeah, thats smart, lets cover a story that we have no information about by cancelling the showing of our best show. Lets repeat over and over again the same nothingness we have. How about interrupt the commercials instead, oh yeah, that would cost you money....At least Fox 13 understood and made sure 24 rolled anyways with a message on top about the story. Good thinking there, not!!!
@broncosmo - fox 13 interupted '24' several times and then went right to commercials. they announced that '24' will be seen in its entirety tomorrow online.
"And the National Rifle Association says that, 'Guns don't kill people, people do,' but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps...just standing there going, 'BANG!' That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that happen...'" Eddie Izzard, Comedian
@BlaineFabin - Such as when an off duty officer happens to have his gun with him and STOPS the murderer from killing even more.
Guns in the hands of the law abiding preserve innocent life and are a threat only to crimnals.
Criminals, are criminals and will violate whatever laws you might pass anyway.
Guns in the hands of the law abiding preserve innocent life and are a threat only to crimnals.
Criminals, are criminals and will violate whatever laws you might pass anyway.
Thanks for deleting my other post, yeah, dont let people say that this station made a very bad decision by interuptting programing for 1 1/2 hours.
I have friends there that I have not been able to get in touch with. I keep watching hoping to see that they are okay. Please KSL keep airing this until I know they are okay.
Well once the Constituion is ammended to preclude my right to bear arms you can object to concealing and carrying a firearm. I for one would have loved to have been armed and not merely cowering in some corner waiting to be shot by that lunatic. A half-jacketed hollowpoint is quite a deterent.
I go to work everyday and I want to come home and relax and forget about this crazy world, why does every channel have to be covering this sad incident. Let us go on.
They will do anything to get on the air, including milking a tragedy like this. It has nothing to do with what's right or wrong, or what's a big deal or not, it only has to do with the egos of reporters.
Some people are just turning on the t.v. and haven't heard any of the news yet. If you don't want to hear the news anymore, why don't you turn off the t.v. and read a book for the next 20 minutes or something. You can watch your precious shows a little later.
Even if you had someone you loved at the mall, the repetative coverage isn't telling them anything anyway. It's not insensitive to not want to watch it repeatedly. The people who are glued to the T.V. because of this are probably the same people that have to stop to see if they can see any blood or gore during a traffic accident. I want my Heroes!!
@flosslady - some people actually care about other people that are not their family... not everyone goes for blood and gore! and i would think that you watch heroes every time it comes on, right? maybe you need a life...
@flosslady - I personally care much more about a local story than I ever could care about a TV show.
I love trolls.
I acknowledge the need for the public to know something is happening. I hope everyone is okay, and alive above all. However, an hour of vague details explaining the same story over and over again is pointless. I don't mind Deal or No Deal being talked over, because it's one of the worst game shows in all history. However, Heroes is so much better compared. I don't mean to be callous, but no new information of any importance had developed. Will I get to see my Heroes episode without having to become an internet pirate? No. Give me news when you know something don't waste my time with media hype. I apologize again for being so insensate to the gravity of this, but all I look forward to all week to break the monotony is this. I have the utmost sympathy for the persons injured, but I also have no patience for the lackadaisical approach news channels take to these issues. It is all hype and facts a day afterwards.
Your station makes its money through its programming not coverage of news getting no where because they are still trying to get more information. You will have more information at 10pm. Stop the insanity.
I hate how media turns these situations into a circus. We have a right to be informed, but people move your asses off the sidewalks, tuck your children into bed and give the response teams some respect and the families some privacy. We are a voyeristic generation raising a sociopathic one. When the dust settles thenyes, I would be very interested in knowing what happened, but I don't care to hear jibberish every 2 minutes just because there is a reporter on the scene.
I sure hope no children were shot, killed or hurt. There was a shooting in Philly about the same time tonight.
It sure looks like a good time to rob a bank in Salt Lake City, with every police agency involved at Trolley Square. Hope some real bank robbers don't think the same thing....
@Sharppointy1 - are all closed by 6:45 p.m.
There's no sense asking if the air is good when there is nothing else to breathe.
Okay, how many times can KSL and the other station keep regurgitating the same video information. ENOUGH ALREADY! Breaking news? 2 hours ago maybe...
The number of people watching your breaking news is not because we're watching the breaking news. This is the audience of your highly acclaimed, very popular primetime tv show waiting for our show in which we've been promised new twists, a death, and a new hero.
@disappointed viewer - I think you have your death... and your heros.... and lots of new twists... so forget about the stupid tv shows and have some compassion for those that are dead.. hurt.. or have family and friends that are... your shows will air again.. some of these victims wont...
@disappointed viewer - You've got a new hero you idiot, it's the off-duty officer from Ogden... your pathetic show will air again, you'll survive... five others tonite did not. They will not wake up to see the sunrise tomorrow. You missed "Heroes". Yeah, you can really relate...
How many channels have to air the same story??? None of the channels have any more information... The guy is dead, there is no more shooting, the news is not going to update anyone on anything. Everything is speculation. I don't care if anyone's programs are being missed, but I can not stand the lack of news. If you have news then broadcast it, don't create panic. Let the police do their job and stay out of their way. What is wrong with you people. Speculation... They even admitted that they have no more news, they are just prolonging the speculation.
you keep repeating yourselfs on what you dont know let alone the police sit back and let things unfold then tell us at 10 pm
Thank you for finally showing Heroes. Please do interrupt the program briefly to tell me any breaking news you may have. I wish you had started it from the beginning.
NBC has been promoting Deal or no deal and Heroes for a week now and KSL cancels it for redundant news. I am sure the are couple thousand people effected by this tragic event,t here are also an excess of 1 million people that is not.
Good news for those with internet speeds that can use NBC Rewind. You can watch the most recent episode online at nbc.com as of tomorrow when it becomes available.
You Stupid People!!! You would rather watch a TV program then worry about the people in that mall! for all that you know one of your family members of friends are in that mall and all you care about is your dang TV...GET A LIFE!!! I am scared every time something like this happens!!! One of my friends lives so close that she could see what's happening...and thats scares me to death!!! and all of you stupid people care about is heroes or 24 or some other stupid programs that you watch probably every time it comes on. That really makes me think what this world is coming to...
@~aries~ - First of all they don't have a full story.. They don't know the facts. And some of us like to be kept sheltered. Yes there is a real world out there. but we don't need to be bomb bared by it so that all we think about is depressing thoughts. Yes we all know it is scary. But the media need to gather their before repeated the same blast info over and over for an hour and a half.
@~aries~ - You know, if it was one of my family members or friends, I sure hope by everything good in this world that I wouldn't hear it from the news first! If that was one of my family members or friends, I would have heard about it by now, and not from the news.
The new should give us real information when theyhave it. Don't just stubble through facts that you don't even have. Every channel had a different story of how many gunmen there were and how many people were shot. It doesn't make any sense until the facts are out. Don't show 2 hours of empty parking lots until you know what's going on.
The new should give us real information when theyhave it. Don't just stubble through facts that you don't even have. Every channel had a different story of how many gunmen there were and how many people were shot. It doesn't make any sense until the facts are out. Don't show 2 hours of empty parking lots until you know what's going on.
You as KSL and other news media do not need to spend an hour and a half repeating what little you know. Gather your facts and then give your views brief summery segmented. I don't watch the news because I don't want here it. But you ruined my evening by not allowing me to watch my normal shows when I have limited free time as it is.
The circles are driving my insane i cant help it to yell at my t.v because id rather watch heros then a stupid loop of the same info ide seen 5 min. before that and they showed the same clip with the cops upstairs at least 3 times if you ask me 1 time is sufficent.
@flosslady - They keep saying the same exact thing and showing the same exact people saying the same exact quotes. I wish I could have seen Heroes, I've been waiting for it all week. They can cut in and tell updates but the same thing over and over and over isn't helping anyone out.
this could be kennecott's fault.
okay not really. i think it was a gang related shooting, thats my opinion, can't wait to find out what happened!
okay not really. i think it was a gang related shooting, thats my opinion, can't wait to find out what happened!
Thousands of people transit Trolley Square on their way to and from work and school at the University of Utah every day. Thousands right now have friends or family at Trolley Square today. This story has immediate concern for people throughout KSL's viewing area. Please keep us informed.
KSL and KUTV went to regular programming 45 minutes ago. I guess KTVX has no good shows anyway and need the ratings.
My tv shows are not on. My pathetic life is in shambles because I can't watch a television show of pretend life because my life is so boring.
Ha, they just said that your stupid shows will be on again............IN THE SUMMER DURING RE-RUNS, ha ha ha ha
Ha, they just said that your stupid shows will be on again............IN THE SUMMER DURING RE-RUNS, ha ha ha ha
It's very scary and sad what happened. I feel for everybody involved. I personally would rather hear news of the events. And not just ramble on for the sake of being on the air. Most people want to know the facts and not assumptions.
You are breaking in again to say you don't know anything... KSL is PATHETIC...
@Mark D. - I am sorry, but breaking in to say you don't know anything is actually quite pointless. I heard what happened and then turn off my tv, checking the internet for further updates. I really don't need to have you drone on unceasingly about what you don't know just so you can have your face and voice on the air.
I realize that what happened tonight was a tragedy and that there are many worried people out there. But did hearing that "We have no new information" really make you feel that much better?
I realize that what happened tonight was a tragedy and that there are many worried people out there. But did hearing that "We have no new information" really make you feel that much better?
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it - Aristotle
One problem with breaking news is that other crazy people see what happen and try to make the breaking news also. I personally don't care about the TV shows but the local news should have commented on it for a few minutes and then came back to it when they knew what they were reporting on. I know if I was laying on the stretcher I wouldn't want the whole state to see me. Also if I was one of the witnesses freezing my butt off. I'm sure a few more people flipped out when they saw their child or love one on the news.
Let the emergency crews do their job without 4 news helicopters flying overhead. It isn't even on CNN yet.
Let the emergency crews do their job without 4 news helicopters flying overhead. It isn't even on CNN yet.
@phileaglesfan - Hey bud Check MSNBC and FOX news they have both reported it and its on their websites as BREAKING NEWS
people i am 15 years old and i have more respect for the dead and injured, i like my tv shows too, but i like to know whats going on! stop being so disrespectful as some one said before, read a book, go enjoy time with your family if your sick of it. we should be thanking everyone for what they are doing not complaining that they are taking away our tainted and corrosive tv shows for 10 min
@Kalie C. - I know it is hard for you to count in middle school, but they have been covering the story for over an hour... not 10 minutes...
@Kalie C. - Its very sad that a 15 year old is much wiser than those That we have heard from earlier. Im happy to see that people are still installing values to our youth of today
@Kalie C. - Its sad to see that a 15 year old is much wiser then the people we have heard from earlier. Im very proud to see parents still taking the time to instill values and morles to our youth of today. I to was looking forward to Heros tonight but when lives are at stake and the well being of others is compromised I can not fathom Heros being more important.The dvd will be out this Summer unlike those who lost their lives tonight. Shame on you
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=265684
If you want updated information on the latest word.
The last update told us that the shooter is dead. They are saying they don't have a total count, 2 people are at the hospital. No motive yet, no firm numbers on fatalities.
Last update 9:03 P.M. channel 2 news.
If you want updated information on the latest word.
The last update told us that the shooter is dead. They are saying they don't have a total count, 2 people are at the hospital. No motive yet, no firm numbers on fatalities.
Last update 9:03 P.M. channel 2 news.
http://www.d00db0x.com
California crime has been decreasing since they added the 3-strikes you're out law. Utah needs to do the same so that these types of losers don't go out and shoot innocent people. IT won't stop them all but it should be a deterrent. This year has started out full of tragedies for innocent Utah families. Not good.
ooO_(_o__o_)_Ooo
http://videodaily.info
http://videodaily.info/go/parents.php
http://videodaily.info
http://videodaily.info/go/parents.php
@Rem - How would this help this obviously deranged psycho hell bent on murder? It would not.
I love trolls.
what if it was you standing out in the cold, i bet they want to watch their tv shows just as bad but im sure they want their faimilies to know that most of the people are safe and well
Mary R : Sorry that these insensitive morons seem to run rampant on these boards. I keep begging KSL to let me have a kick or ban button so we can stick to the story and not deal with IDIOTS trying to watch TV instead of hear about possible dead people they might know or love. Some people really make me sorry I am on this planet.
Thank goodness that off duty Ogden cop was there, who knows how many more would be dead.
I wish more people (that weren't insane) were carrying guns to protect everyone else.
Thank goodness that off duty Ogden cop was there, who knows how many more would be dead.
I wish more people (that weren't insane) were carrying guns to protect everyone else.
http://www.d00db0x.com
Is the news exploitive? Absolutely. Are they supporting the "rubbernecking" mentality? You bet.
But to those of you who have been sitting pale-faced in front of the television for the past hour, waiting with the anxiety of a meth-addict for your next "Heroes" fix...unable to turn away, much less turn the television off, but still able to complain that death is "ruining your evening"-- please know that tonight, you are supporting the opinions of any individual who happens to agree with these shooters: that humans are a scourge, selfish and complacent, made ignorant by petty indulgences, and what's more-- that they are undeserving of the life they have.
Turn off your television. Go outside. Go to the bathroom. Or just pinch yourself, and be glad that you can. Yes, "only" a handful of people have died here tonight, but hundreds have died all over the world today-- and you STILL have yet to take notice. What exactly will it take before you start to care?
But to those of you who have been sitting pale-faced in front of the television for the past hour, waiting with the anxiety of a meth-addict for your next "Heroes" fix...unable to turn away, much less turn the television off, but still able to complain that death is "ruining your evening"-- please know that tonight, you are supporting the opinions of any individual who happens to agree with these shooters: that humans are a scourge, selfish and complacent, made ignorant by petty indulgences, and what's more-- that they are undeserving of the life they have.
Turn off your television. Go outside. Go to the bathroom. Or just pinch yourself, and be glad that you can. Yes, "only" a handful of people have died here tonight, but hundreds have died all over the world today-- and you STILL have yet to take notice. What exactly will it take before you start to care?
@.lark. - .lark. says:
Turn off your television. Go outside. Go to the bathroom. Or just pinch yourself, and be glad that you can. Yes, "only" a handful of people have died here tonight, but hundreds have died all over the world today-- and you STILL have yet to take notice. What exactly will it take before you start to care?
So, what are you doing about it? Holding your head in your hands and weeping 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for all those who've died all over the world today? Are you in a constant state of depression and woefull patheticness over all the drama that dominates this planet on a daily basis? Are we all to turn off our TVs, stop reading our romance novels, stop posting on message boards and playing our video games and wollow in infinite sadness over it all? Fact is, we likely have a great deal of folks who are in here on this message board at this very moment who muse over the tragedy of it all and imply we're all supposed to go into mourning and break down into sobbing masses who've actually FORGOTTEN that, just not so long ago, over 3,000 people perished and countless families lost their loved ones. And, the fact is? There have been several news stories of which have been heart wrenching in the past several weeks. However, we weren't subjected to these for hours on end. Two examples are the incident in which a LDS bishop lost nearly his entire family in a drunk driving incident and, the incident in which the home exploded from the gas leak. Now, I could be wrong...but, I don't recall being subjected to 2 to 3 hours of breaking news coverage over these tragedies.
Turn off your television. Go outside. Go to the bathroom. Or just pinch yourself, and be glad that you can. Yes, "only" a handful of people have died here tonight, but hundreds have died all over the world today-- and you STILL have yet to take notice. What exactly will it take before you start to care?
So, what are you doing about it? Holding your head in your hands and weeping 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for all those who've died all over the world today? Are you in a constant state of depression and woefull patheticness over all the drama that dominates this planet on a daily basis? Are we all to turn off our TVs, stop reading our romance novels, stop posting on message boards and playing our video games and wollow in infinite sadness over it all? Fact is, we likely have a great deal of folks who are in here on this message board at this very moment who muse over the tragedy of it all and imply we're all supposed to go into mourning and break down into sobbing masses who've actually FORGOTTEN that, just not so long ago, over 3,000 people perished and countless families lost their loved ones. And, the fact is? There have been several news stories of which have been heart wrenching in the past several weeks. However, we weren't subjected to these for hours on end. Two examples are the incident in which a LDS bishop lost nearly his entire family in a drunk driving incident and, the incident in which the home exploded from the gas leak. Now, I could be wrong...but, I don't recall being subjected to 2 to 3 hours of breaking news coverage over these tragedies.
@Grump - I have to wonder why you assume the only possible response to knowing what's going on in the world is emotional excess, and inactivity. My recommendation is that people make an attempt to shed their own complacency and ignorance, then approach what problems they can from a pro-active standpoint. Rather than complaining about a missed television show, how about we discuss the implications of this incident and explore possible avenues to prevent future occurrences? The human brain and imagination is a remarkable thing when stimulated. I'm sure there are some creative solutions that have yet to be pursued.
As for reporting gas leaks and drunk driving-- you bet those are tragedies. However, a mass murderer tends to be more of a societal anomaly, which is why it's given more attention. This is not to suggest that certain tragedies take priority, only that deviance tends to attract more attention.
As for reporting gas leaks and drunk driving-- you bet those are tragedies. However, a mass murderer tends to be more of a societal anomaly, which is why it's given more attention. This is not to suggest that certain tragedies take priority, only that deviance tends to attract more attention.
...absolutely no updates, or names of people, who died during the "breaking news". Those of you worrying about loved ones, panicing, clinging to your televisions, screaming "people are DEAD!!".. yeah, we got that within the first 15 minutes of the breaking news. the other hour and a half was mind-numbing repetition.
if you are the sort that wants to cling to your fear, to palpitate and shake at the thought of trenchcoated villains messing up the world and how serious it all is.. good and well. but there are those of us who turn to our tvs with the hopes of escaping the brutalities of reality by watching shows that we enjoy.
if we wanted the news, we'd watch it at its regularly scheduled time. i don't mind a ribbon, i don't mind a 2 minute interruption.. but an hour and a half of them blathering on with no new information was pointless. and if you don't understand why, then i feel sorry for you.
while what happened was indeed serious, there was and will be no pertinent information released immediately. if you are next of kin or family, you'll most likely be notified before the names are released to the press anyways. it's gonna take some time, so let's let some of us enjoy our TV shows and not stress about what we cannot control or affect.
if you are the sort that wants to cling to your fear, to palpitate and shake at the thought of trenchcoated villains messing up the world and how serious it all is.. good and well. but there are those of us who turn to our tvs with the hopes of escaping the brutalities of reality by watching shows that we enjoy.
if we wanted the news, we'd watch it at its regularly scheduled time. i don't mind a ribbon, i don't mind a 2 minute interruption.. but an hour and a half of them blathering on with no new information was pointless. and if you don't understand why, then i feel sorry for you.
while what happened was indeed serious, there was and will be no pertinent information released immediately. if you are next of kin or family, you'll most likely be notified before the names are released to the press anyways. it's gonna take some time, so let's let some of us enjoy our TV shows and not stress about what we cannot control or affect.
Heck with this concealed carry crap,I think we ought to be allowed to pack a .45 on our hip out in the open,like Arizona.I think this coward might have thought twice if he saw a couple of .45s on hips walkin round that mall.
Liberalism is a disease,Im the cure.
@sturmgewehr44 - Better double check the law on that one. You don't need a permit to open-carry a weapon on city streets. Granted it can't have one in the chamber without a permit, but no officer is going to stop you from an open carry here in Utah.
KSL interrupting CSI to tell us Yassar Arafat died, and give us that terrorist scum's life story...now -that- was stupid any annoying.
But interrupting T.V. shows because of random murder at a local mall? Come on, people, you -have- to expect and accept that. Sure, they didn't learn much for almost two hours, but they did get to talk to the occasional witness and get the first statement from the police spokeswoman.
Anyhow, it's terrible that innocent people died. I'm glad the police got there quick and put the mad dog down.
I also expect concealed weapon permit holders did what they were supposed to do: make sure themselves, their families, and those immediately around them were safe and otherwise GET THE HECK OUT.
Society doesn't want armed civilians chasing down gunmen, and society will just have to wait the extra few minutes for the police to show up.
Maybe our society will eventually mature enough and change the laws, courts, and prosecutors' attitudes such that an armed citizen will be encouraged to chase such a madman down and put a few rounds in his head...but until then, the only legally acceptable thing to do is beat your own path to safety and only shoot the worthless scum if they are right there threatening you or those near you. It sucks, but there you have it.
But interrupting T.V. shows because of random murder at a local mall? Come on, people, you -have- to expect and accept that. Sure, they didn't learn much for almost two hours, but they did get to talk to the occasional witness and get the first statement from the police spokeswoman.
Anyhow, it's terrible that innocent people died. I'm glad the police got there quick and put the mad dog down.
I also expect concealed weapon permit holders did what they were supposed to do: make sure themselves, their families, and those immediately around them were safe and otherwise GET THE HECK OUT.
Society doesn't want armed civilians chasing down gunmen, and society will just have to wait the extra few minutes for the police to show up.
Maybe our society will eventually mature enough and change the laws, courts, and prosecutors' attitudes such that an armed citizen will be encouraged to chase such a madman down and put a few rounds in his head...but until then, the only legally acceptable thing to do is beat your own path to safety and only shoot the worthless scum if they are right there threatening you or those near you. It sucks, but there you have it.
@Greg D. - CSI is on channel 2, KUTV, not KSL, channel 5.
That was done at the national level, and the guy that broke into programing, was fired, because the decision was made earlier to not break into programing because of Araffats death.
Local shooting, 5 innocent people killed, break into live programing. That is what the news is for.
That was done at the national level, and the guy that broke into programing, was fired, because the decision was made earlier to not break into programing because of Araffats death.
Local shooting, 5 innocent people killed, break into live programing. That is what the news is for.
I love trolls.
@Nicu grad mommy - Whoops, my bad for calling out KSL. I do know it was directed at a national CBS level, not locally...but it was still stupid :)
And only goes to prove our point that this tragedy at the mall is a much better event to interrupt regular programming.
And only goes to prove our point that this tragedy at the mall is a much better event to interrupt regular programming.
@Greg D. - Great, so I could have you or some other random person deciding in the heat of the moment that I need a bullet in my head? Who gets to decide, any guy that happens to have a gun? I like the current system just fine.
If you really want to carry a weapon and chase down madmen, join the force.
If you really want to carry a weapon and chase down madmen, join the force.
@C W. - If you're running around in public, shooting people with a shotgun, sure.
Otherwise, you rely on dozens of people each day to show discretion and judgment to keep you alive. Or have you not noticed when people fail to show discretion and judgment, others die? Drunk drivers, anyone?
Otherwise, you rely on dozens of people each day to show discretion and judgment to keep you alive. Or have you not noticed when people fail to show discretion and judgment, others die? Drunk drivers, anyone?
As the wife of a cop this is one of those moments we fear the most because we know that our husbands (and wives in some cases) would be more then willing to do whatever it takes to protect those civilians that are in harms way. Not only is my husband an officer but also before he became an officer he was a concealed weapon permit holder. Those citizens who chose to make this commitment to carry a weapon do so knowing that one day that just might have to use it but hope and pray that they never do. If we continue to allow our constitutional right to bear arms slowly be eroded away then where are we left? In the exact position that Tim F. stated...where only the criminals have guns and we have to continually live in fear of our own communities! PLEASE support your local law enforcement officers and concealed weapons permit holders! They really truly are our last line of defense!
@Cowgirlut - It is possible (based on early information) that if that offduty officer hadn't been at Trolley Square, with his weapon, the casualties may have been greater. In reality the offduty officer was nothing more than a citizen with a CWP (and some specialized training). Avoid being a victim, learn to protect yourself and carry a firearm responsibly.
Okay so when something like this happens, where do you turn to get information, THE NEWS. Stop complaining. They are doing their best to report it to the demanding public like you!!!!! Where else are you gonna get you info the SLPD??? We can't just be appreciative of the news for being there and giving us the most information POSSIBLE!!!! Have a little thankfulness!!!
@Nathan L. - Nathan L. says:
Okay so when something like this happens, where do you turn to get information, THE NEWS.
The news, yes. Television news, not necessarily. I can get news on the computer. If I sign up for breaking news, I will get an e-mail alerting me of breaking news. I can get news from the radio. One can get news from a cell phone. And, most importantly, a great deal of folks can get news through local neighbors or, friends and family. Also, we can get news from this medium that we're employing now, message boards. So, we don't necessarily need 3 hours of non-stop, regurgitated TELEVISION news to keep ourselves updated and, to know what's going on.
Nathan L. says:
Stop complaining.
Yes sir. Right away, sir.
Nathan L. says:
They are doing their best to report it to the demanding public like you!!!!!
Who said I ever demanded that they bombard us with non-stop, regurgitated news of which tells me nothing?
Nathan L. says:
Where else are you gonna get you info the SLPD??? We can't just be appreciative of the news for being there and giving us the most information POSSIBLE!!!! Have a little thankfulness!!!
Thankfulness, for the news? Don't be absurd. And, reporters? You don't want to hear what I think of reporters. Let's just say that Dell Schanze may have been a little kooky. However, he was right on with respect to his views on reporters.
And, again, I can get my info from a variety of mediums besides the television news.
Lastly, all those whining about those who are upset because they missed their television programs and come off with "watch reruns" or, "download it"? Here's an even better idea. Watch your breaking news video on the computer or, catch the breaking news in print on KSL's, or others', Web sites.
Okay so when something like this happens, where do you turn to get information, THE NEWS.
The news, yes. Television news, not necessarily. I can get news on the computer. If I sign up for breaking news, I will get an e-mail alerting me of breaking news. I can get news from the radio. One can get news from a cell phone. And, most importantly, a great deal of folks can get news through local neighbors or, friends and family. Also, we can get news from this medium that we're employing now, message boards. So, we don't necessarily need 3 hours of non-stop, regurgitated TELEVISION news to keep ourselves updated and, to know what's going on.
Nathan L. says:
Stop complaining.
Yes sir. Right away, sir.
Nathan L. says:
They are doing their best to report it to the demanding public like you!!!!!
Who said I ever demanded that they bombard us with non-stop, regurgitated news of which tells me nothing?
Nathan L. says:
Where else are you gonna get you info the SLPD??? We can't just be appreciative of the news for being there and giving us the most information POSSIBLE!!!! Have a little thankfulness!!!
Thankfulness, for the news? Don't be absurd. And, reporters? You don't want to hear what I think of reporters. Let's just say that Dell Schanze may have been a little kooky. However, he was right on with respect to his views on reporters.
And, again, I can get my info from a variety of mediums besides the television news.
Lastly, all those whining about those who are upset because they missed their television programs and come off with "watch reruns" or, "download it"? Here's an even better idea. Watch your breaking news video on the computer or, catch the breaking news in print on KSL's, or others', Web sites.
KSL says:
DO NOT REPLY TO TROLLISH POSTS
Don't tell me what to reply to and, what not to reply to. You're not my mommy.
DO NOT REPLY TO TROLLISH POSTS
Don't tell me what to reply to and, what not to reply to. You're not my mommy.
I am in Yuma AZ. I think you have a great police force and they seem to have handled this very well. My question is what is the temperture and why are the young children standing out there isn't there some where they could have been taken to keep warm and out of the ear shot of this horriable act? A store or fast food place across the street maybe. Or maybe there parents should have taken them home. I lived in SLC for many years and this is how I keep in touch with the news there KSL does a great job with there website Thank You
@Becky M. - When police evacuate people in a situation like this, they always offer out blankets. Chances are, if you saw people standing outside without blankets, they refused them. The police immediately call the main transit system to get buses to hold people in until they can be questioned and released, they just had to wait outside until the transit authority could get buses out there. Hope that answers your question, and yes we do have GREAT police!!
Does anybody know if the Black Chandelier was fired at? Or if anyone in there was shot? Or does anyone know the girl who was working tonight??? Please answer if you do..she is a friend and i cannot get a hold of her or anyone else...it hurts so bad...and seriously those complaining about their shows..save it for later. Leave the fighting out of this because people are dead and hurt
@rachlee421 - I saw a couple who said they were in that store. The employee hid them in the back. They did not mention the shooter got into the Black Chandelier, or that anyone in that store was hurt.
I love trolls.
This is Ridiculous, Shootings happen everyday and just because it happened in SLC everyone makes a big stink about it, SLC is not very dangerous, actually its hardly dangerous, people need to get over it. There are shootings in California all the time you dont hear people whining all about it. Get over it and move on, i dont care that it happened a few hours ago, Just move on about it, feel sympathy for the people who got hurt or died and move on. Dont make a big deal about the situation.
@aaronjscarbs - I can't even begin to describe how I feel reading your post... you're a complete idiot.
@aaronjscarbs - It's a big deal because it is so close to home!!!! I was there today wasting money at the Pottery Barn and baby gap.
That is why it's a big deal. When they talk about the stores and the locations, I know what they are talking about because I've been there.
That is why it's a big deal. When they talk about the stores and the locations, I know what they are talking about because I've been there.
I love trolls.
@aaronjscarbs - Otherwise it becomes common, everyday, acceptable behavior, which it is NOT. These are human lives that were lost. Not an inanimate object destroyed. Human beings. Loved ones. Family, Friends. If we, as a society, stop caring, then what will happen to our society? Should it be a free-for-all? Maybe go to "Wild West" mentality with vigilante justice?
What if it was your loved one and NO ONE cared? No police showed up, no ambulance, no doctors at the hospital? What then? Maybe it is a good idea to have a community that works together for the greater good? Maybe that would make us a better society.
Or maybe everyone should just take care of themselves so that they can watch their tv shows. That is the community spirit.
What if it was your loved one and NO ONE cared? No police showed up, no ambulance, no doctors at the hospital? What then? Maybe it is a good idea to have a community that works together for the greater good? Maybe that would make us a better society.
Or maybe everyone should just take care of themselves so that they can watch their tv shows. That is the community spirit.
I moved my wife and kids from Los Angeles to get away from this sort of thing... Unfortunately this is proof there is nowhere on the planet totally safe from these sorts of nut-cases. Very sad.
Here is the fact...
Breaking news, a horrible thing, several possibly dead, the killer also dead. Our hearts go out to all thoses involved.
More details at 10:00 when we actually know more, can tell what really happened, how many effected etc.instead of making things up, boring us with stupidity and repeating yourselves.
AS FAR AS T.V. GOES...
Local program has no place overwriting network program.
Especially when they have no idea what they are talking about.
THE FACT IS EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD HAS A VALID POINT... LET IT GO PEOPLE.
Breaking news, a horrible thing, several possibly dead, the killer also dead. Our hearts go out to all thoses involved.
More details at 10:00 when we actually know more, can tell what really happened, how many effected etc.instead of making things up, boring us with stupidity and repeating yourselves.
AS FAR AS T.V. GOES...
Local program has no place overwriting network program.
Especially when they have no idea what they are talking about.
THE FACT IS EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD HAS A VALID POINT... LET IT GO PEOPLE.
@Sheri C. - Bad reporting, complaining and confusion... But sometimes that's the way it goes... I shutter to think how many newsworthy events would have been passed over if we followed the narrow-minded qualifications for news coverage most of you bozos have in mind... lemme see... ah, SLC Tornado, Elizabeth Smart Found, SLC Library shooting, Space Shuttle Columbia, The Twin Towers... Yeah, in most of these cases, nobody knew what the **** was going on... in many cases, for several hours... but hey, for all of you morons, it's not news unless we have all the facts... GET A LIFE!!!
To all those criticizing folks who are complaining about missed television programming:
I'm finding out as much, if not more, about what's going on here through this message board than I am from the continuous breaking news coverage. So :P, there.
I'm finding out as much, if not more, about what's going on here through this message board than I am from the continuous breaking news coverage. So :P, there.
this is BS, people all start to panic as soon as something bad happens here, people SLC is not that dangerous! Shootings happen all the time!! literally all the time, maybe not here in SLC but alot of other places and you dont hear people elsewhere making a big deal about it! JEEZ!!! People calm down, feel sympathetic to the families of the people who died, and move on!!! Dont go into panic mode! CHILL! I saw a comment on here that says, "when i go to slc i always have my handgun on me" Why??? Thats the dumbest thing i ever heard!! Everyone needs to stop freakin out and chill!
@aaronjscarbs - Fox news and MSNBC and more have all reported this story as BREAKING NEWS on tv and on the internet.
@Nathan L. - in the United States we live in a relatively safe place, so when things like this happen, it is national news. Say your prayers and thank God that He allowed someone like you to be born in this free and safe land.
@Leslie J. - I completely agree with you. I was disagreeing with the people that said "this was no big deal" and "it happens all the time in LA" So if that is the case why did it make worldwide news. Plus it was a big deal to those affected. To say this was no big deal is an understatement. I am on your side and I couldn't agree with you more!! Thanks for you response
@Leslie J. - I totally think the same thing. It is national news because it happened in SLC...there was a mall shooting where I grew up that killed seven people and there was barely a report in that state. We are lucky to live in such a safe place!
@aaronjscarbs - Hey Mr. Know it all! Take flying leap ok. You don't know how society is. We want to live in a safe environment, we want to be safe in public. This has happened, a shooting killing 5 people. This is a bad shooting and one of the worst things that has happened in long time here in Utah. when things happen like this, there is pain people fill everywhere
and being there can have traumatic problems. Please be respectful for the victims.
Aaron you are a idiot! do us a favor never post on this board again.
and being there can have traumatic problems. Please be respectful for the victims.
Aaron you are a idiot! do us a favor never post on this board again.
What happened at Trolley Square tonight cannot be reconciled with logic. There's both good and evil in this world, tonight we experienced evil.
I too am a concealed weapon permit holder. Rarely do I go out in public without my weapon. Honestly, it isn't for the protection of others, specifically its for my personal protection and to protect those I care about. I can't honestly say I would have taken on tonight's murderer and, if I had, its possible I may have been mistaken for his partner and been killed myself. But I can tell you that if I, or someone I care about, were in danger I would have had the will and ability to take action.
Those argueing that more liberal gun laws may have prevented tonights tragedy suffer from a John Wayne syndrome; I don't. The sad side of this is that I, like most CWP holders never go to places where our weapons are forbidden; i.e. The Delta Center(?), Church, the whatever amphetheater in West Valley, Rocky Mountain Raceway, and someday maybe the U, etc. By discouraging CWP permit holders they invite murders, they know they will be unchallenged. So the next time you're are one of these venues think of what happened at Trolley Square and know that you're there all alone with no potential John Wayne's to degend you.
I too am a concealed weapon permit holder. Rarely do I go out in public without my weapon. Honestly, it isn't for the protection of others, specifically its for my personal protection and to protect those I care about. I can't honestly say I would have taken on tonight's murderer and, if I had, its possible I may have been mistaken for his partner and been killed myself. But I can tell you that if I, or someone I care about, were in danger I would have had the will and ability to take action.
Those argueing that more liberal gun laws may have prevented tonights tragedy suffer from a John Wayne syndrome; I don't. The sad side of this is that I, like most CWP holders never go to places where our weapons are forbidden; i.e. The Delta Center(?), Church, the whatever amphetheater in West Valley, Rocky Mountain Raceway, and someday maybe the U, etc. By discouraging CWP permit holders they invite murders, they know they will be unchallenged. So the next time you're are one of these venues think of what happened at Trolley Square and know that you're there all alone with no potential John Wayne's to degend you.
@William M. - if you were out there using your gun to shoot at this loser, in the panic of the situation, many people might think that you were also a bad guy and you might end up getting killed by the cops by mistake. Unless the situation is 100% in your favor, it's not that easy to simply pull out your gun and shoot unless you have dozens of witnesses seeing that you're the good guy. Not all situations will be perfect fora hero citizen with a gun. NOt to mention the fact that if you missed the shot and ended hitting someone else hiding somewhere or in the way.
ooO_(_o__o_)_Ooo
http://videodaily.info
http://videodaily.info/go/parents.php
http://videodaily.info
http://videodaily.info/go/parents.php
@William M. - Plenty of people survived without concealed weapons -- they hid, they relied on strategies like closing the lights off, locking the doors. Concealed weapon permits do not make you John Wayne, just a John Wayne wannabe. And that's the last thing I would want if I were in a tragic situation like this -- to be surrounded by a bunch of machismo fools who think they can save the world and those of us with some sanity and peace in our hearts get caught in the crossfire.
@Blackberry z - Yes, at Columbine they hid under their desks and were executed. And yea, smart people sought refuge, some paniced and ran and I'm certain others were frozen with fear. John Waynes, civilians or police, scare [no swearing please] out of me. However, when it comes down to having to devfend yourself. there's nothing like a .45 calibre automatic.
After 40+ years in Law Enforcement I can tell you that when your time comes under the Trolley Square circumstances you better have something more powerful than fast feet. The police can't be everywhere, and often aren't as in control as might be expected.
Take this evening. With the over responce if the shooting had been ongoing your wouldn't have been able to control the police, there would have been pandamonium and many more people would have been injured or killed. Under those circumstances, I's rather be the master of my own destiny. Macho JOhn Waynes scare [no swearing please] out of me also. But, over zealous police scare me even more.
After 40+ years in Law Enforcement I can tell you that when your time comes under the Trolley Square circumstances you better have something more powerful than fast feet. The police can't be everywhere, and often aren't as in control as might be expected.
Take this evening. With the over responce if the shooting had been ongoing your wouldn't have been able to control the police, there would have been pandamonium and many more people would have been injured or killed. Under those circumstances, I's rather be the master of my own destiny. Macho JOhn Waynes scare [no swearing please] out of me also. But, over zealous police scare me even more.
@Blackberry z - If someone with a gun had not been there, whether he was a cop or not, the lunatic would have gone through the mall and killed everyone there. He came prepared with enough amo to accomplish the task. Hiding in a dark closet wouldn't have saved anyone if a gun-carrying good guy hadn't been there.
Isnt sad that a 15 year lod girl is wiser than alot of you out there tonight. Im proud to see the parents are taking the time to instill vaules and morals to our youth of today. I too was looking forward to Heros tonight but when lives our lost and others are compromised I can not fathom a Tv show being more improtant. The Heros DVD will be out this summer the people who lost thier lives tonight will not. Shame on you
@summerbleu - The tv show's only became more important when the tradgey was crammed into our faces with meaningless rambelings. As of 10:00 p.m. they seem to know nothing more. Such as,
How many lost, have their families been contacted, is the community safe again.
With such hate in the world, having the CHOICE to enjoy a fictional world filled with "HEROES" is not wrong or stupid, what was repeated over and over was defined as wrong, inaccurate, incomplete, and most importantly, the media gave no kind of reassurance to their audience!
SHAME ON OUR LOCAL MEDIA!!!
How many lost, have their families been contacted, is the community safe again.
With such hate in the world, having the CHOICE to enjoy a fictional world filled with "HEROES" is not wrong or stupid, what was repeated over and over was defined as wrong, inaccurate, incomplete, and most importantly, the media gave no kind of reassurance to their audience!
SHAME ON OUR LOCAL MEDIA!!!
@Sheri C. - What good does it do to say the media didn't do their jobs well enough? I'm glad they covered it to the extent they did, even if they were fumbling in spots. If they knew who the killer was, they would have told you. I did see some reporters do a little more speculation than they should have, and the KUTV guy apologizing for his gym suit was a little embarassing. But it's more real news than we usually get on those stations. Breaking news is by definition spotty. I thought they did well to get what interviews they could. If you flipped your channel around enough, you could kind of piece together what was happening. But that requires some active critical thinking, not relying on the news to be the snoops for you.
Umm...
Here we are, one week aniversary of the Bears' super stinkeroo, and someone shoots up a mall.
Another thing to lay at Mr. Grossman's feet?
Here we are, one week aniversary of the Bears' super stinkeroo, and someone shoots up a mall.
Another thing to lay at Mr. Grossman's feet?
To bad they couldn't have just shot out both of this losers legs. Like shattered his knees and make him live with it. He more than likely went into it planning to die. That's to easy. To live behind bars for the rest of his life with no one that would really care about him is more worth it to me. And to give him some permanent scars and pain to live with would be more justice.
@Catherine M. - Dead was the right justice, so he can't do this to anyone else. Letting him live so he can continue to cause fear and pain ... ??
For those of you bashing the police force there in Utah, I invite you to spend a night in Southern Florida. The horrific news I hear on a daily basis would send the entire State of Utah into a panic. You have no idea what a corrupt police force or a lawless area is until you leave your warm cocoon there in Utah. This is a horrible tragedy that happened and I am so sorry for the loss of good honest God loving people that happened today.
The only reason why incidents like this are not on the news every day in Utah is because Utah is the safest place on earth. When your schools require security officers at every entrance, and schools resemble prisons more than schools and there is STILL major crimes that happen in them every day, then you will know how the rest of the world lives. Be grateful that you don't have to put bars up on your windows and doors to prevent strangers from breaking into your home to hurt your family on a daily basis.
A situation like this happened here on Christmas Eve at a crowded mall. There was only a blip of news about it as I watched that evening. The reason why? Because horrible things happen in Florida EVERY DAY. A boy was found brutally murdered and left at a dumpster at a school nearby. Again just a blip of news even though they can't determine the exact cause of death because of the brutal condition of the body. Men break into women's homes and rape them in thier sleep as close as 3 blocks from my home. You have NO idea how safe and lucky you are, even though this horrible thing has occured.
Sleep easy tonight because the perpetrator is dead. That is the justice in Utah. The perp is almost ALWAYS found for haneous crimes in Ut. Here they walk the streets free for life. Whether or not his death was justice is for the Lord to decide. Some of the comments regarding killing the perp are disgusting.
The only reason why incidents like this are not on the news every day in Utah is because Utah is the safest place on earth. When your schools require security officers at every entrance, and schools resemble prisons more than schools and there is STILL major crimes that happen in them every day, then you will know how the rest of the world lives. Be grateful that you don't have to put bars up on your windows and doors to prevent strangers from breaking into your home to hurt your family on a daily basis.
A situation like this happened here on Christmas Eve at a crowded mall. There was only a blip of news about it as I watched that evening. The reason why? Because horrible things happen in Florida EVERY DAY. A boy was found brutally murdered and left at a dumpster at a school nearby. Again just a blip of news even though they can't determine the exact cause of death because of the brutal condition of the body. Men break into women's homes and rape them in thier sleep as close as 3 blocks from my home. You have NO idea how safe and lucky you are, even though this horrible thing has occured.
Sleep easy tonight because the perpetrator is dead. That is the justice in Utah. The perp is almost ALWAYS found for haneous crimes in Ut. Here they walk the streets free for life. Whether or not his death was justice is for the Lord to decide. Some of the comments regarding killing the perp are disgusting.
@Utah Girl in FL - I have a spouse from Florida. It's so much crazier there that everyday in Utah feels like a picnic. I'm glad I live here.
@Utah Girl in FL - I grew up in south Florida, I have some sympathy for you. If you want to escape the area, Florida still has many places that remind people of Mayberry. Small towns with good folks away from the beaches. Many Floridians call it the 20 mile buffer zone: 20 miles from any beach and Orlando you can find peace and quiet (mostly).
In the meantime, check your locks often, get a dog, and by all means get qualified on a weapon that you can carry. I would suggest that if I were in Florida or Utah. Florida ranks 10th nationwide for crimes, but Utah isn't far behind at 21st.
Take care, tell me about the good motorcycle weather I'm missing, and pray for those who lost their lives and their families.
In the meantime, check your locks often, get a dog, and by all means get qualified on a weapon that you can carry. I would suggest that if I were in Florida or Utah. Florida ranks 10th nationwide for crimes, but Utah isn't far behind at 21st.
Take care, tell me about the good motorcycle weather I'm missing, and pray for those who lost their lives and their families.
I'm a WEM (Western European Mutt for those who want to classify everyone)
(CBS 3) PHILADELPHIA A gunman fatally shot three men at a business meeting before committing suicide Monday night in an office building at the old Philadelphia Navy Yard, police said.
Another man was critically injured with a gunshot wound to the abdomen, and two other men were bound with duct tape but were not seriously injured, Deputy Commissioner Richard Ross said. The victim that suffered the gunshot to the abdomen was rushed to Thomas Jefferson University Hospital.
Another man was critically injured with a gunshot wound to the abdomen, and two other men were bound with duct tape but were not seriously injured, Deputy Commissioner Richard Ross said. The victim that suffered the gunshot to the abdomen was rushed to Thomas Jefferson University Hospital.
Ok...after reading many of the comments and seeing that many are on the same thing. Uh, Hello....yes, there is no threat anymore, gunman dead, and some innocent poeple are wounded or gone now.
Did any of you really think of a show when the WTC went down on 9/11? They aired the same thing over and over and over again for days. That was against the entire USA, and this is against ?? who knows? But the same thing should be realized....this is reality!! Not 24, Heroes, etc. These are REAL tragedies!!!!
Please hope that the families that are involved in any way, can heal somehow. I'm not sorry for the gunman, but for his family also.
Did any of you really think of a show when the WTC went down on 9/11? They aired the same thing over and over and over again for days. That was against the entire USA, and this is against ?? who knows? But the same thing should be realized....this is reality!! Not 24, Heroes, etc. These are REAL tragedies!!!!
Please hope that the families that are involved in any way, can heal somehow. I'm not sorry for the gunman, but for his family also.
Wooohooo!
@Mamw - DO NOT COMPARE 5 DEAD TO 5000.
@Sheri C. - I see your point Sheri, mathematics prove that 5 is much less than 5000. The affected of 9/11 existed on a much wider scale, but nonetheless a life is a life and we continue to be desensitized. Does it really have to be 5000 to be important? News worthy? people died tonight and the opinions will fly both ways, those that lost loved ones and those that lost their normal programing. Amazing the avenues of communication and information that we have, readily at our fingertips, and how we take for granted all of it. Just feel lucky you can even share your opinion.
@Sheri C. - The next time 3 family members in your family are killed in one instant, then you can talk.
@Littlemomma - How about the bishop who lost his wife, unborn child and 2 of his 4 children in one fail swoop! 10 min. total that horrible incedent got, and that is only due to the tremendous compassion he showed toward the boy who KILLED THEM.
WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PEOPLE.
It was all about what attention the media could get. Reportes asking the same questions over and over again, and the answers were not changing.
My point was, do not compair 9/11 to an incedent that sadly happens almost every day somewhere to someone.
WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PEOPLE.
It was all about what attention the media could get. Reportes asking the same questions over and over again, and the answers were not changing.
My point was, do not compair 9/11 to an incedent that sadly happens almost every day somewhere to someone.
@Sheri C. - And when Sep. 11 happened, we had continuous coverage for several days, compare that to one hour last night. That's exactly the story I'm talking about, the Williams family. I've lost 2 brothers in this life. I agree that the media goes too far, the stupid questions they ask, etc. When it first happens let us know the important details, and then keep us posted. You don't have to yell. And last night started with one person; it had a lot to do with people, the one that took lives and those that lost lives.
@Sheri C. - The article is about the Trolley Square Tragedy and the reply that I answered was on the people who were upset that they missed TV shows. Did they cancel shows to talk about the coverage of the family that was in the wreck? No!! It was news. It's horrible that even their tragedy happened, I can't talk about every tragedy that happens everywhere. It's sad and horrible when anything bad happens to anyone.
I think I covered everyone everywhere now.
I think I covered everyone everywhere now.
Wooohooo!
@Mamw - I was not responding to you. I could've cared less what shows were on that night. I realize that reporters can't give us the full story up front. But when a reporter asks a witness who was running from the shooting what he was feeling? Well, I don't know, reporter, what do you think he was feeling. Scared and probably not thinking anything, just running for his life. I didn't agree with "YOUR KIDDING." Even if there were only 3 or 5 people killed compared to the 2000+ on Sep. 11, it is still a tragedy and needs to be acknowledged. That's why I was comparing the coverage to Sep. 11. I didn't agree with those complaining about missing their precious shows. The shootings at Trolley Square deserved the coverage it got, and I am not one to get upset when there is breaking news.
@Sheri C. - Uh.....it's a gap in comparison, but it's still a real tragedy. So it's ok that we only lost 6 poeple?? NOT!! Would you change you opinion if one of those 6 were a friend or family member? I think you would!!
Do you think that none of the victims in the shooting were innocent?? What about 9/11?
The point I was making was the fact that it was a terrible thing that any of these deaths or injuries have occured. Why did this happen??
There are people that are gone now....oh, maybe those are strangers to you and the fact that it wasn't a tragedy against the nation means it doesn't matter.
Maybe you should think before you reply next time.
Do you think that none of the victims in the shooting were innocent?? What about 9/11?
The point I was making was the fact that it was a terrible thing that any of these deaths or injuries have occured. Why did this happen??
There are people that are gone now....oh, maybe those are strangers to you and the fact that it wasn't a tragedy against the nation means it doesn't matter.
Maybe you should think before you reply next time.
Wooohooo!
I am posting this note from Southern Alberta Canada after learning about the incident from my wife who lives in SLC.
As a firefighter I feel for all those involved from those who had to witness such horrific events to the emergency workers who were called to deal with the situation. Most of all my heart goes out to all the family and friends of those who lost their life in such a cowardly act of violence.
It is sad that their are people who value life so little that something so insane would appear to be the "thing to do". If only there were a magic cure to all the ills we are facing on this planet.
I wish you all well in Salt Lake City and want you all to know that you will be in the hearts and prayers of many of your neighbours here in Canada especially those of us who have loved ones among you!
God Bless you ALL
Darin C in Alberta, Canada
As a firefighter I feel for all those involved from those who had to witness such horrific events to the emergency workers who were called to deal with the situation. Most of all my heart goes out to all the family and friends of those who lost their life in such a cowardly act of violence.
It is sad that their are people who value life so little that something so insane would appear to be the "thing to do". If only there were a magic cure to all the ills we are facing on this planet.
I wish you all well in Salt Lake City and want you all to know that you will be in the hearts and prayers of many of your neighbours here in Canada especially those of us who have loved ones among you!
God Bless you ALL
Darin C in Alberta, Canada
6 confirmed dead from Fox 13, last update 10:05 P.M.
A caller said the shooter was 20 years old and had murder on his face.
Valley Mental Health is urging anyone involved to call 261-1442 if anyone needs to talk about this horrible tragedy that has taken place tonight in Salt Lake City, Utah.
A caller said the shooter was 20 years old and had murder on his face.
Valley Mental Health is urging anyone involved to call 261-1442 if anyone needs to talk about this horrible tragedy that has taken place tonight in Salt Lake City, Utah.
http://www.d00db0x.com
@mrd00d - Who do you think it is that drugs the large majority of these shooters into a violent psychotic episode? That's right Valley Mental Health! In 1999 we had three in a row and you have seen plenty of them since then. WAKE UP UTAH!!! You are being drugged out of your minds by good old Valley Mental Health and many others.
How long do you really think it will be before you hear that this shooter was being "treated" for depression or bipolar disorder or post traumatic stress, etc. and taking or had just quit taking an antidepressant or antipsychotic?
Remember that these same people used to prescribe LSD, PCP, Ecstasy, etc. - all were prescription medications made by the same companies giving you antidepressants today that are little different than these older drugs. Go to www.drugawareness.org and read how many other Utah cases involved these drugs. There are hundreds of news articles there of similar cases linked to the drugs.
Ann Blake Tracy, Ph.D., Executive Director, International Coalition For Drug Awareness
Website: www.drugawareness.org
How long do you really think it will be before you hear that this shooter was being "treated" for depression or bipolar disorder or post traumatic stress, etc. and taking or had just quit taking an antidepressant or antipsychotic?
Remember that these same people used to prescribe LSD, PCP, Ecstasy, etc. - all were prescription medications made by the same companies giving you antidepressants today that are little different than these older drugs. Go to www.drugawareness.org and read how many other Utah cases involved these drugs. There are hundreds of news articles there of similar cases linked to the drugs.
Ann Blake Tracy, Ph.D., Executive Director, International Coalition For Drug Awareness
Website: www.drugawareness.org
Did you notice AP carefully avoided any description of the gunman? No witness quoted said anything either? Wonder if he was Arab?
@rmwenschhof - I heard several times that he was wearing a long, tan trench coat, had short hair, a 6'1" white man. What were you watching?
I was watching the BBC News only to see that news about the shooting at the square made all the way to London, England to be broadcasted!
@Wd - heaven forbid that the local stations actually try to cover it... oh noes!!!
Lemme think... Story carried by national and international news networks. Should we be concerned about the selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed bozos who are upset they missed a fantasy show? Oh sure, why not, we can't be sure if there were 4 or 6 people killed, so let wait till we have 100% confirmation on that fact.
Hey I also heard that there was a tanker overturned somewhere... nobody knows exactly what is in the tanker, so we will wait till the 10pm news to say anything about it..
What? it was cyanide? Oh shoot... well at least they didn't miss Desperate Housewives... that would have been a REAL tragedy...
Lemme think... Story carried by national and international news networks. Should we be concerned about the selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed bozos who are upset they missed a fantasy show? Oh sure, why not, we can't be sure if there were 4 or 6 people killed, so let wait till we have 100% confirmation on that fact.
Hey I also heard that there was a tanker overturned somewhere... nobody knows exactly what is in the tanker, so we will wait till the 10pm news to say anything about it..
What? it was cyanide? Oh shoot... well at least they didn't miss Desperate Housewives... that would have been a REAL tragedy...
@Billmcneal - Billmcneal says:
heaven forbid that the local stations actually try to cover it... oh noes!!!
Lemme think... Story carried by national and international news networks. Should we be concerned about the selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed bozos who are upset they missed a fantasy show? Oh sure, why not, we can't be sure if there were 4 or 6 people killed, so let wait till we have 100% confirmation on that fact.
Hey I also heard that there was a tanker overturned somewhere... nobody knows exactly what is in the tanker, so we will wait till the 10pm news to say anything about it..
What? it was cyanide? Oh shoot... well at least they didn't miss Desperate Housewives... that would have been a REAL tragedy...
What are you going to do when communications are interrupted and you're denied access to your O' so precious news? Maybe you ought to start thinking about what you're going to do when you have no news of which you can rely on to tell you what to do and lead you around. Further, if a tanker with cyanide overturned, we'd likely all be dead before all the facts were out and it was actually confirmed that, indeed, the tanker contained cyanide. But, then again, we may all panic and head for the hills, only to find out it was milk. Go figure. And, lastly, there's a difference between clear, concise and obvious news and, vague and speculative news.
heaven forbid that the local stations actually try to cover it... oh noes!!!
Lemme think... Story carried by national and international news networks. Should we be concerned about the selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed bozos who are upset they missed a fantasy show? Oh sure, why not, we can't be sure if there were 4 or 6 people killed, so let wait till we have 100% confirmation on that fact.
Hey I also heard that there was a tanker overturned somewhere... nobody knows exactly what is in the tanker, so we will wait till the 10pm news to say anything about it..
What? it was cyanide? Oh shoot... well at least they didn't miss Desperate Housewives... that would have been a REAL tragedy...
What are you going to do when communications are interrupted and you're denied access to your O' so precious news? Maybe you ought to start thinking about what you're going to do when you have no news of which you can rely on to tell you what to do and lead you around. Further, if a tanker with cyanide overturned, we'd likely all be dead before all the facts were out and it was actually confirmed that, indeed, the tanker contained cyanide. But, then again, we may all panic and head for the hills, only to find out it was milk. Go figure. And, lastly, there's a difference between clear, concise and obvious news and, vague and speculative news.
SACRAMENTO -- Rudy Giuliani addressed a potentially troublesome issue with conservative voters, saying his policies as mayor to get handguns off the street helped reduce crime in New York.
"I used gun control as mayor," he said at a news conference Saturday during a swing through California. But "I understand the Second Amendment. I understand the right to bear arms."
He said what he did as mayor would have no effect on hunting.
"I used gun control as mayor," he said at a news conference Saturday during a swing through California. But "I understand the Second Amendment. I understand the right to bear arms."
He said what he did as mayor would have no effect on hunting.
Why can't the TV reporters simply say "this is what we know, and this is what we don't know" and quit going on and on with PURE speculation? The anchors back in the studio were even worse. And why does the "spokesperson" from the SLPD come out to do a "press briefing" if she doesn't know anything or have ANY information. All it was was a bunch of "I don't know" or "I didn't ask". Some of the questions were ones that certainly she should have asked and had answers for BEFORE she came on at the "briefing". This was certainly not unique to any one TV station. All were guilty of the same coverage. Guess we will have to wait until morning and read the Newspapers who traditionally know to answer the questions that KSL and the rest of the networks never do: What, when, where, who and how. (Did I forget any?) Why can't the TV stations simply say we have no "new" information and will come back on if we do. I am sort of thinking that they were staying on the air to be the first with coverage of additional fire fights that they could get on the air first with. The way the coverage was, it made me think of the footage they always show at accident scenes where they have to get footage of every little detail, like a shoe a chalk mark, every piece of the car. Did we really need to see the SAME footage OVER and OVER and OVER again? Fox 13 was even worse than KSL.
@Baja Bum - The local news coverage was embarrasing, to the so called reporters. I really tired of the stupid, asinine questions they insisted on asking. (You too, KSL) Probably just so they can get on camera and say they were there. This was an incredible thing that happened.
Leave it there.
Let the cops do what they do first, get answers later when they make sense. My thanks and Kudos to the Ogden officer who was there and stopped it in it's tracks.
Leave it there.
Let the cops do what they do first, get answers later when they make sense. My thanks and Kudos to the Ogden officer who was there and stopped it in it's tracks.
I live on 700 s and 600 east and let me tell you how frightening it was to be sitting in my living room and having 6 fire trucks go flying past your house followed by multiple cop cars. The helicopters have been flying over head for hrs. I am amazed at how quickly the police were able to respond to this incident. They say it began at 6:45pm well the cops were flying down my street at 6:48! (I know cuz I looked at the time) Way to go SLC PD! My heart goes out to any one involved whether a victim or a witness.
I am who I am, so there!
I love the NRA comments. Let's not forget to thank FORD for giving us the rights to run over people (also happend in SLC, FORD explorer. Crazy lady who drove through a building to kill her husband). Honestly, the guy could have used a car, swords, knives etc. It doesn't matter what he used, it's how he used it. Think about it. There were 2 people with guns there. One using it in a horrific manner, and the other using it to save lives. Both guns have the same ability and function. It's who's behind it that determines the outcome. It's a shame that more people there weren't armed. How much better would the story be if the headline was this. "Armed citizens kill would-be Mass Murderer." I don't know about you, but I'd much rather see that what we're seeing now. "At least five victims were gunned down, with 4 more in critical condition."
i'm confused; does it make sense that the answer to gun violence is more guns?
@Michael B. - The suspect was using a shot gun. You dont need a CWP to buy one or shoot one.
happy to help
This is a sad event, a tragic incident that will effect may people for the rest of their life.
That being said, people this is going to happen until the murderer quits being immortalized by the media they will always be infamous' that is what they want. They are craving attention and this is the way they get it. I encourage you, write your lawmakers the problem is not the gun, it is the idiot using the gun. Write your politician make them enforce longer sentences for people who use guns in their crime. And do not buy or watch anything that is making a profit off everyone loss.
Look at what took place after Columbine, Michael Moore made millions promoting the murders of innocent kids (and then blamed it on the president). This has to stop, start punishing the guilty, and stop handicapping the innocent! There should be more CFP holders, there are not enough cops when thing like this happen.
That being said, people this is going to happen until the murderer quits being immortalized by the media they will always be infamous' that is what they want. They are craving attention and this is the way they get it. I encourage you, write your lawmakers the problem is not the gun, it is the idiot using the gun. Write your politician make them enforce longer sentences for people who use guns in their crime. And do not buy or watch anything that is making a profit off everyone loss.
Look at what took place after Columbine, Michael Moore made millions promoting the murders of innocent kids (and then blamed it on the president). This has to stop, start punishing the guilty, and stop handicapping the innocent! There should be more CFP holders, there are not enough cops when thing like this happen.
@Mike D. - Sounds like you're confusing Bowling for Columbine and Farenheit 911. If you'd actually seen Bowling for Columbine you'd realize that it doesn't blame the president at all. The question raised by the movie echos tonight: why are there so many violent gun crimes in the US and what in our culture contributes to them?
With the comments that have been posted here tonight I'm not surprised that things like this happen. Maybe if we weren't so worried about our t.v. programs, and more concerned about what is going on around us things would be different. It is pathetic and embarassing that we are more concerned about fictional characters and stories then we are about what is happening around us. Maybe if we stop caring about ourselves so much and start taking a more proactive role in helping with whats going on around us things like this wouldn't happen. Those comments make me just as sick as the actual event. When did you stop valuing a humans life? Have a little more compassion towards your fellow human beings.
@SLCgirl - I'm interested to hear exactly what pro-active role you're professing people should take to prevent acts like this in the future. The way I see it, the only person to have taken a pro-active role in this case is the hero with a concealed weapon who ended this murderer's life.
Either way, I don't see how this is supposed to help anything apart from the rubber-neckers need for tragedy.
I don't see how staring at that makes you anymore of a humanitarian.
Either way, I don't see how this is supposed to help anything apart from the rubber-neckers need for tragedy.
I don't see how staring at that makes you anymore of a humanitarian.
Did you know that there were people who called the local TV stations to complain about their soaps not airing on Sept 11, 2001...
what the **** were the networks thinking. They didn't have a clue of what was going on. Next time they need to wait for all the facts before they break into my hallowed programming...
what the **** were the networks thinking. They didn't have a clue of what was going on. Next time they need to wait for all the facts before they break into my hallowed programming...
This isn't just a little story that should go away because you wanted to watch your stupid shows. This story is actually being broadcast all across the US because it DOESN'T happen everyday everywhere.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families, as well as the family of the shooter.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families, as well as the family of the shooter.
May the victims and families of tonight's horrible scene have peace and comfort, and heal quickly from their pain...both emotional and physical. For the rest of us, never forget to say "I love you".
Do right and fear no one! Max von Stephanitz
Hello, people.
Sit down, shut up, and watch the real "heros" in action. These people have come out KNOWING that there's someone in the building WANTING to kill others, with a GUN - and RISKED THEIR LIVES (not to mention families AND mental health) for a measly paycheck and people who are complaining that their TV show isn't on as expected.
Give it a rest. Watch the real heros, thank them, pray for the victims, and if you don't like the coverage, Read a book.
Personally, I'm in Germany with friends and family back in salt lake. I saw/heard of it on CNN international when I got up this morning. I'm as worried as those who knew they had friends and family in the mall - and hope that none of them are hurt. Prayers for all the victims and their families as well as those first and second responders at the scene.
~Rose
Sit down, shut up, and watch the real "heros" in action. These people have come out KNOWING that there's someone in the building WANTING to kill others, with a GUN - and RISKED THEIR LIVES (not to mention families AND mental health) for a measly paycheck and people who are complaining that their TV show isn't on as expected.
Give it a rest. Watch the real heros, thank them, pray for the victims, and if you don't like the coverage, Read a book.
Personally, I'm in Germany with friends and family back in salt lake. I saw/heard of it on CNN international when I got up this morning. I'm as worried as those who knew they had friends and family in the mall - and hope that none of them are hurt. Prayers for all the victims and their families as well as those first and second responders at the scene.
~Rose
Wow! This is just too much. What is happening to all of us. Everyone is going crazy. The explosion in Saratoga Springs, then the car accident that kills 3 in a family and a baby that had no chance to live. Now this. Another gunman gone crazy.
I can't believe what has happened this past week. It is all too much.
So many people hurting because of the loss of loved ones.
I am glad the gunman is dead. They saved us the trouble of putting him to death. The grieving will go on for a long time to come.
It is hard to imagine what they are going through. I feel for them all.
I wish everyone could forgive as easily as the Bishop has forgiven the kid who killed half his family. He deserves the award for the year.
I feel bad for the 17 year old kid too. But he has to pay for his mistake same as everyone else. But not as an adult. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life. It will never leave him. He has a cross to bear that is going to be a hard one.
God help us all.
Janet in Duchesne
I can't believe what has happened this past week. It is all too much.
So many people hurting because of the loss of loved ones.
I am glad the gunman is dead. They saved us the trouble of putting him to death. The grieving will go on for a long time to come.
It is hard to imagine what they are going through. I feel for them all.
I wish everyone could forgive as easily as the Bishop has forgiven the kid who killed half his family. He deserves the award for the year.
I feel bad for the 17 year old kid too. But he has to pay for his mistake same as everyone else. But not as an adult. He will have to live with this for the rest of his life. It will never leave him. He has a cross to bear that is going to be a hard one.
God help us all.
Janet in Duchesne
I hope the gunman suffered greatly before expiring. My heart goes out to the victims and their families.
For 2 hours on this comment page you all have repeated how stupid it is to interrupt heroes with no new information. But you guys keep repeating the same information. Stop unless you have something important or new to add....
Thank you kindly....
Thank you kindly....
Earlier in the afternoon at 5:00 I was sitting in front of my bedroom window looking into the street when a thought crossed my mind that something really bad was going to happen today. I thought of turning on the news, but then another thought told me “No, not yet”. Just then my daughter fell and hit her head on something so I thought to myself “Oh that must have been what the feelings was.” So I comforted her then I turned on the news anyway. There were a few stories, including that of a body found in the Provo river, so I thought “Is that where the feeling came from? Do I know this person who died in the Provo river?” quickly my mind scanned over all the names of those I know who live in Provo and I couldn’t come up with anything. The feeling nagged me a few times more and I turned off the TV.
Later that evening I spent watching a movie. My sister called and told me to turn on the news, so I did. As soon as I heard I knew that was what the feeling was all about.
These feelings have happened before and they are getting progressively scarier. I want to know if anyone else felt this too. Am I normal or does this happen to everyone? I feel so sad about this, especially for those who are hurt and killed and their families. Please post if you had a similar feeling.
Later that evening I spent watching a movie. My sister called and told me to turn on the news, so I did. As soon as I heard I knew that was what the feeling was all about.
These feelings have happened before and they are getting progressively scarier. I want to know if anyone else felt this too. Am I normal or does this happen to everyone? I feel so sad about this, especially for those who are hurt and killed and their families. Please post if you had a similar feeling.
@Alison L. - But I felt it after, not before. Maybe because I was busy with FHE and puting kids down. Afterward, I had a feeling something was wrong. I couldn't figure it out until I saw the story on the Drudge Report. Then I turned on the tv.
get a life you fat lazy people! Its a tv show!!!!!!!! You live in the real world, care about someone other than yourself
what hits me is that tomorrow when we wake up tomorrow, going to trolley square is just as safe as it was at 6:46 pm today. there is nothing you can do about things like this. it wasnt gangs. its not a high crime area. its just the randomness of our existance. lets hope its a long time before our community has to deal with human garbage again.
Woh I found a picture on Yahoo of an officier with his gun drawn standing over a dead body, so sad. Here the link:
**GRAPHIC CONTENT**
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070213/480/utsal11002130428
**GRAPHIC CONTENT**
**GRAPHIC CONTENT**
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070213/480/utsal11002130428
**GRAPHIC CONTENT**
@B B. - Yahoo has 17 photos of the crime scene. A couple show a body but on a scale graphic-wise it's on the lower scale. But tragically it's absolutely the most heartbreaking. Senseless violence. My heart goes out to anyone who was there. How utterly frightening to fight for your life while at the mall. So sad.
The saddest thing about this whole situation is six people will not be coming home tonight (five of whom were innocent bystanders in the wrong place, at the wrong time) and here are dozens of comments whinning about a fictional television show. Just think if it was your daughter who didn't come home, just think of it being your husband who won't be kissing you tonight when he was supposed to walk in the door. How can you equate this tradegy with a piece of fiction? Are you too lazy to read about it the sgiw the next day? Are you too lazy to get on your knees and pray for those who lost family and friends? Yes shootings happen daily, but not a random multiple murder in a highly populated public place. I'm so grateful for all of the police officers, paramedics, and firefighters who saved lives today. We can never thank them enough for putting not only their lives, but the well-being of their families, on the line everyday. I just pray tragedies like this will be far and few between.
If you don't know how to use a gun, please learn how to use it correctly. If you know how to use a firearm safely and you are a good person, get a CFP. The evil elements of society will continue to do things like this regardless of laws, let's stand up to it.
I am so sorry for all the men, women, and children who were affected by tonight's tragedy. SLC is a wonderful place with friendly, compassionate people; this validates that psychopaths live among us and they are not indigenous to any city, country, and continent.
Peace and healing to all who experienced and witnessed the Trolley Square tragedy.
Renee
Peace and healing to all who experienced and witnessed the Trolley Square tragedy.
Renee
Those of you that were more concerned with watching your programs on TV need to make good use of your sedetary bodies and hug the loved ones around you and make sure that they know you care for them. If you are reading this then you are presumably ok and should be grateful for that. Not everyone is as lucky as you. If you listen closely, I bet you can hear the victims apologizing profusely for the inconvenience of interrupting your show!
I used to live in SLC and I am in total shock about this incident. I hope those of you whinning about missing your shows aren't the ones who will soon get a knock on your door telling you that a member of your family won't be coming home or that a family member of your family is lying critically ill in the hospital and they are not sure whether they will pull through. Will your show be so important then. There are such things as reruns.
For the poster who like to shop at WalMart. I live in Idaho Falls and their was a shooting last night at the Ammon (Idaho Falls) WalMart and I certainly wasn't complaining because I couldn't watch a television show. I probably stupid enough to go down and make sure everyone was all right. (I work in that store). As I was running in to make sure everyone was all right. I ran into my youngest son who had done exactly the same thing I had done--wanted to know if everyone was all right. We knew by this time that the shooter had fled. Yes, I was watching television when the bulletin came across my television set. I was out of there in two seconds with my husband following closely behind.
For the poster who like to shop at WalMart. I live in Idaho Falls and their was a shooting last night at the Ammon (Idaho Falls) WalMart and I certainly wasn't complaining because I couldn't watch a television show. I probably stupid enough to go down and make sure everyone was all right. (I work in that store). As I was running in to make sure everyone was all right. I ran into my youngest son who had done exactly the same thing I had done--wanted to know if everyone was all right. We knew by this time that the shooter had fled. Yes, I was watching television when the bulletin came across my television set. I was out of there in two seconds with my husband following closely behind.
>
>WOW, WHAT A WAKE UP!
>
>Dear God:
>
>Why didn't you save the school children at ?. .
>
>Moses Lake , Washington 2/2/96 Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97 Pearl , Mississippi
>10/1/97 West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97 Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97 Jonesboro ,
>Arkansas 3/24/98 Edinboro , Pennsylvania 4/24/98 Fayetteville , Tennessee
>5/19/98 Springfield , Oregon 5/21/98 Richmond , Virginia 6/15/98
>
>Littleton , Colorado 4/20/99 Taber , Alberta , Canada 5/28/99 Conyers ,
>Georgia 5/20/99 Deming , New Mexico 11/19/99 Fort Gibson , Oklahoma 12/6/99
>Santee , California 3/ 5/01 and El Cajon , California 3/22/01?
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Concerned Student
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>Reply:
>
>Dear Concerned Student:
>
>I am not allowed in schools.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>God
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>How did this get started?
>
>-----------------
>
>Let's see, I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
she
>didn't want any prayer in our schools.
>
>And we said, OK..
>
>------------------
>
>Then, someone said you better not read the Bible in school, the Bible that
>says "thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbors
as
>yourself,"
>
>And we said, OK...
>
>-----------------
>
>Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehaved
>because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their
>self-esteem.
>
>And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we won't
spank
>them anymore..
>
>------------------
>
>Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children
>when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no faculty member in
>this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't
want
>any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued.
>
>And we accepted their reasoning...
>
>------------------
>
>Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want,
and
>they won't even have to tell their parents.
>
>And we said, that's a grand idea...
>
>------------------
>
>Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're
>going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want, so
>they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have
>
>to tell their parents they got them at school.
>
>And we said, that's another great idea...
>
>------------------
>
>Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do
in
>private as long as we do our jobs.
>
>And we said, it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President, does
>in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good....
>
>------------------
>
>And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published
>pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them
>available on the Internet.
>
>And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....
>
>------------------
>
>And the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that
>promote profanity, violence and illicit sex... And let's record music that
>encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...
>
>And we said, it's just entertainment and it has no adverse effect and nobody
>takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead.
>
>------------------
>
>Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they
>don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill
>strangers, classmates or even themselves.
>
>------------------
>
>Undoubtedly, if we thought about it long and hard enough, we could figure it
>out. I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...
>
>"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"
>
>------------------
>
>Pass it on if you think it has merit! If not then just discard it... but if
>you discard this thought process, then don't you dare sit back and complain
>about what bad shape this country is in
>WOW, WHAT A WAKE UP!
>
>Dear God:
>
>Why didn't you save the school children at ?. .
>
>Moses Lake , Washington 2/2/96 Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97 Pearl , Mississippi
>10/1/97 West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97 Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97 Jonesboro ,
>Arkansas 3/24/98 Edinboro , Pennsylvania 4/24/98 Fayetteville , Tennessee
>5/19/98 Springfield , Oregon 5/21/98 Richmond , Virginia 6/15/98
>
>Littleton , Colorado 4/20/99 Taber , Alberta , Canada 5/28/99 Conyers ,
>Georgia 5/20/99 Deming , New Mexico 11/19/99 Fort Gibson , Oklahoma 12/6/99
>Santee , California 3/ 5/01 and El Cajon , California 3/22/01?
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Concerned Student
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>Reply:
>
>Dear Concerned Student:
>
>I am not allowed in schools.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>God
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>How did this get started?
>
>-----------------
>
>Let's see, I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
she
>didn't want any prayer in our schools.
>
>And we said, OK..
>
>------------------
>
>Then, someone said you better not read the Bible in school, the Bible that
>says "thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbors
as
>yourself,"
>
>And we said, OK...
>
>-----------------
>
>Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehaved
>because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their
>self-esteem.
>
>And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we won't
spank
>them anymore..
>
>------------------
>
>Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children
>when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no faculty member in
>this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't
want
>any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued.
>
>And we accepted their reasoning...
>
>------------------
>
>Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want,
and
>they won't even have to tell their parents.
>
>And we said, that's a grand idea...
>
>------------------
>
>Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're
>going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want, so
>they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have
>
>to tell their parents they got them at school.
>
>And we said, that's another great idea...
>
>------------------
>
>Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do
in
>private as long as we do our jobs.
>
>And we said, it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President, does
>in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good....
>
>------------------
>
>And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published
>pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them
>available on the Internet.
>
>And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....
>
>------------------
>
>And the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that
>promote profanity, violence and illicit sex... And let's record music that
>encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...
>
>And we said, it's just entertainment and it has no adverse effect and nobody
>takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead.
>
>------------------
>
>Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they
>don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill
>strangers, classmates or even themselves.
>
>------------------
>
>Undoubtedly, if we thought about it long and hard enough, we could figure it
>out. I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...
>
>"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"
>
>------------------
>
>Pass it on if you think it has merit! If not then just discard it... but if
>you discard this thought process, then don't you dare sit back and complain
>about what bad shape this country is in
If in doubt just ask Kim Peek
@Truth seeker - ">And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published
>pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them
>available on the Internet.
>
>And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech...."
You are an extremely confused fundamentalist. First, this is NOT the appropriate forum into which you should cut and paste your very skewed preaching. Secondly, how very offensive your cut and pasted comment above. For your information, Freedom of Speech is a right...the right for you to show your ignorance. Child pornography is what's called a FELONY in the United States. Get it? Doubt it. So tape bible pages over your entire family's eyes and ears and double up on everyone's butter churn chore hours and sing hymns and pray for a better world from your ridiculously skewed "superior" stance and hide behind your sick and skewed "organized religion" where you're told how and what to think. Be a good member of your "flock"....it's ONLY because of separation of church and state, and Freedom of Speech...that you HAVE that right. But I don't expect you to understand any of this.
>pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them
>available on the Internet.
>
>And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech...."
You are an extremely confused fundamentalist. First, this is NOT the appropriate forum into which you should cut and paste your very skewed preaching. Secondly, how very offensive your cut and pasted comment above. For your information, Freedom of Speech is a right...the right for you to show your ignorance. Child pornography is what's called a FELONY in the United States. Get it? Doubt it. So tape bible pages over your entire family's eyes and ears and double up on everyone's butter churn chore hours and sing hymns and pray for a better world from your ridiculously skewed "superior" stance and hide behind your sick and skewed "organized religion" where you're told how and what to think. Be a good member of your "flock"....it's ONLY because of separation of church and state, and Freedom of Speech...that you HAVE that right. But I don't expect you to understand any of this.
@FromChicago - Is there anything ? whinners have forgotten to blame others for? If there is, I am sure you will think of it given enough time. Grow up Interesting how those who so readily accuse others of fault, are those who are the most absorbed by it.
If in doubt just ask Kim Peek
@FromChicago - Seperation of church and state is a good thing. Seperation of church from state is a disaster.
Guys, this is on the front page of FREAKIN BBC. I don't think it's a minor story, and I don't think anyone should be complaining about it. I was a little annoyed that they interrupted 24 a couple of times for it, BUT I MOVED ON. I GOT OVER IT. I FIGURED OUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE SHOW! It's not that difficult! 24 is fake, this shooting is real. These are real people we're dealing with here (wait? Jack Bauer isn't real?! [no swearing please]!). 6 people just died in a matter of minutes, right here in SLC, in a popular shopping mall, and you guys are concerned about your TV shows?
People are incredibly self-centered. No wonder I have such a problem with them.
People are incredibly self-centered. No wonder I have such a problem with them.
@Jason B. - Jason B. says:
People are incredibly self-centered. No wonder I have such a problem with them.
Maybe you should watch a television program and get away from us all. :-)
Further...and, I've tried to post this several times and the KSL police feels a need to prohibit my freedom of speech rights. Would you be of the same sentiment if, during the duration of which television programs are being pre-empted, they also pre-empted your ability to post a message, read a message or, otherwise access other areas of the Internet, in order that they could get this breaking news to you post haste? Or, would you get annoyed and find it obnoxious that your precious Internet activities are being interrupted for regurgitated, repetitious news in which no new information is being brought forward?
Lastly, of course it's on BBC. Considering, of course, England is one of the gun-opponent meccas of the world. Certainly, although they likely pretended real hard, they weren't reporting it in terms of the tragedy of it all. They were just merely reporting it for the "gun factor" of the situation and the "look how great we are because guns aren't as prevalent here" factor. They're just using this tragedy as fodder in an attempt to somehow make themselves look better.
People are incredibly self-centered. No wonder I have such a problem with them.
Maybe you should watch a television program and get away from us all. :-)
Further...and, I've tried to post this several times and the KSL police feels a need to prohibit my freedom of speech rights. Would you be of the same sentiment if, during the duration of which television programs are being pre-empted, they also pre-empted your ability to post a message, read a message or, otherwise access other areas of the Internet, in order that they could get this breaking news to you post haste? Or, would you get annoyed and find it obnoxious that your precious Internet activities are being interrupted for regurgitated, repetitious news in which no new information is being brought forward?
Lastly, of course it's on BBC. Considering, of course, England is one of the gun-opponent meccas of the world. Certainly, although they likely pretended real hard, they weren't reporting it in terms of the tragedy of it all. They were just merely reporting it for the "gun factor" of the situation and the "look how great we are because guns aren't as prevalent here" factor. They're just using this tragedy as fodder in an attempt to somehow make themselves look better.
@Grump - Show where the constitution garantees you an uncensored voice on a privately owned board.
Secondly....way to generalize an entire country you've probably never been to.
Thirdly....countries like Japan and England DO have a MUCH lower gun crime. It's amazing how many rightists stick their head in the sand about that.
Secondly....way to generalize an entire country you've probably never been to.
Thirdly....countries like Japan and England DO have a MUCH lower gun crime. It's amazing how many rightists stick their head in the sand about that.
Someone walks into a public shopping mall and opens fire killing 5 people, and all you ignorant people can think of is getting a concealed weapons permit to put MORE guns in public places!!! RIDICULOUS! That is what TRAINED security and police are there for! There could have been just as many if not more tragedies and fatalities had some civilian carrying a concealed weapon whipped it out and started shooting too, not to mention the fact they could easily be confused as another killer themselves by the police/security or even some other moron carrying a concealed weapon hoping to save the day but instead killing that other person as well. What an amazing society! If to be safe in any city requires everyone to carry a gun around, we are obviously doing something wrong, thats the whole reason this was able to occur tonight, some psycho civilian was able to get hold of a gun! And now the OBVIOUS solution to this problem is to give EVERYBODY one!!!! You people are RIDICULOUS. My heart goes out to the families involved in this HEINOUS crime and tragedy, and to my friends that were there, I thank GOD you are ok.
@CaliCorbs - I’ll take my chances with a permit carrier who hopefully would use sound judgment and skill to put this thing to a rapid end.
A ship in harbor is safe - but that is not what ships are for.
@CaliCorbs - They ran like dogs just like everyone else because they were unarmed just like everyone else. I wonder what would have happened if off-duty officers weren't allowed to carry a concealed weapon like the one that might be credited with killing this lunatic? By the time the on-duty police showed up, he could have easily killed 15 more people. Use your head Calicorbs and pray you never have to rely on a civilian to save you from a someone on a shooting rampage.
@CaliCorbs - Sorry I not going to RELY on an unarmed security officer, they are told to run to back halls if a bad guy with gun starts shooting in a mall. All malls in SLC have unarmed security. I'm been trained at POST, and worked as a police officer, sorry but protecting my family is the most important thing I'm going to do. The bad guy is going down and it's not going to be pretty. Sorry but the psycho had a shotgun, people who carry a concealed weapon and have permit are honest citizens and have that right to carry. Your statement is lame and you don’t have the facts. People have the right to carry CCW, and protect themselves and their families. Bad guys will carry a gun, and they don’t care about any stinking laws! Do us a favor, never post on this board again.
@CaliCorbs - Why do fools like you think wack jobs are going to follow rules and do things the right way! Trained security- they didn't have weapons, they fled like everyone else, and probably right to do so under the circumstances. Police- they will not always be there and need to respond to emergency calls, how many died while police were en route? Yes, a civilian could be mistaken for a shooter. However, the Ogden police officer was in plain clothes and police were well trained enough to hold their fire. They even told the gunman to put his weapon down. They fired after he opened fire on them. You don't even know how the psycho civilian got a gun.... nobody does at this point. He most likely stole it from someone. You are crazy and "ridiculous" to even suggest I don't have a right to defend myself or my family.
What's amusing is that, likely, 90% of these people in here criticizing those who are upset about missed television programming found out about this breaking news story on the Internet or other medium and weren't watching the breaking news story on television at all but, were in fact, watching reruns of The Simpsons or South Park and just simply felt a need to tell these folks that they were heartless because they wanted to watch their television programs rather than be bombarded by regurgitated repetitious breaking news of which no new information was released by the 10:00 p.m. news. It's easy for certain folks to level such criticisms when there is no possible way we can know for certainty whether or not they, too, were watching their favorite programs and were finding out about the events with respect to the news on the Internet or other medium besides television.
@Grump - It's easy for certain folk to level such criticism because we are not heartless, self-absorbed [no swearing please]s..
@Billmcneal - Billmcneal says:
It's easy for certain folk to level such criticism because we are not heartless, self-absorbed [no swearing please]s..
And, you showed your O' so benevolent compassion and overwhelming heart by trundling through approximately 3 hours of continuos regurgitated, repetative news coverage...how? Because you suffered through approximately 3 hours of breaking news, this shows that, without a doubt, your compassion is unmatched? Is that what it takes these days to show one has a heart? Stay glued to a TV to be subjected to non-stop news coverage in which nothing new is being revealed? Elaborate. What makes you so special and overwhelmingly compassionate because you, essentially, watched the news? No one's impressed because you watched the news.
It's easy for certain folk to level such criticism because we are not heartless, self-absorbed [no swearing please]s..
And, you showed your O' so benevolent compassion and overwhelming heart by trundling through approximately 3 hours of continuos regurgitated, repetative news coverage...how? Because you suffered through approximately 3 hours of breaking news, this shows that, without a doubt, your compassion is unmatched? Is that what it takes these days to show one has a heart? Stay glued to a TV to be subjected to non-stop news coverage in which nothing new is being revealed? Elaborate. What makes you so special and overwhelmingly compassionate because you, essentially, watched the news? No one's impressed because you watched the news.
I have been astonished again and again tonight watching the media. I have been very impressed with the way that all the seperate police, fire and ambulance agencies have gathered together to help SLC PD, Southwest and Salt Lake City Fire to contain the scene and to help treat the patients without questions. During one press conference a close up of one of the EMS workers is shown sitting down holding his head- it's hard on them as well.
This horrible tragedy is being dealt with incredibly professionally and I am very impressed with how it is being handled. This stuff is not easy to deal with. I feel incredible sorrow towards the families of the victims, of the shooters and for everyone who is involved.
This horrible tragedy is being dealt with incredibly professionally and I am very impressed with how it is being handled. This stuff is not easy to deal with. I feel incredible sorrow towards the families of the victims, of the shooters and for everyone who is involved.
Might as well bring the soldiers home from Iraq, we need them here now.
@Temple of rock - Temple of rock says:
Might as well bring the soldiers home from Iraq, we need them here now.
Generally, employing the use of the military in a domestic incident such as this is, for all intents and purposes, illegal. You might want to think about reading up on the Posse Comitatus Act.
Might as well bring the soldiers home from Iraq, we need them here now.
Generally, employing the use of the military in a domestic incident such as this is, for all intents and purposes, illegal. You might want to think about reading up on the Posse Comitatus Act.
My daughter works at Trolley Square. She and her co-workers were locked in the office of Pottery Barn Kids for three hours, and had to be walked out by a cordon of police because the shooter was gunned down IN THEIR STORE. We did not know for hours if she was OK. She has a husband and children. And there are countless other people in SLC and all over the area who were in the same condition and hanging on every word of the news for hours tonight. I am delighted that both NBC and CBS affiliates Ch. 2 & 5, as well as ABC and Fox 13, decided that the lives of real people were more important than fictional events. All I can say to those on this board and elsewhere who are whining about missing their evening's entertainment is that I am glad it was not
you and your family...and I would be a little careful of what kind of selfishness and lack of compassion you choose to put out into the Universe. What goes around comes around.
you and your family...and I would be a little careful of what kind of selfishness and lack of compassion you choose to put out into the Universe. What goes around comes around.
@Aisling - I agree completely. I'm also very sorry your daughter had to have this experience. This kind of incident can have long-lasting psychological effects. The severity of this incident is paramount. MANY will have to "work through" a LOT of emotions and thoughts in order to be "OK" with certain situations once again. This incident was extremely traumatic. Also, it's being considered by the media as important enough to be broadcast world-wide. I'm glad your daughter is ok. I also had someone close to me in the building and didn't know for many hours if she was OK or not. The stress was unbearable. I encourage everyone to discuss their stress regarding this situation. Even if people weren't IN the building......stress levels can soar out of control and talking about how we feel will help. If friends and family are not able to listen, I encourage contact with your physician, clergy or even try Valley Mental Health at 261-1442. Even if you were not IN the building and need assistance with the stress this incident as caused. Stress is stress and is not something for which anyone should be ashamed. TALK ABOUT IT. This was a very frightening incident.
@Aisling - Thank you for your post Aisling, and I am glad your daughter is ok. Your post explains exactly why networks were right to be interrupting television, even if items were being repeated... hundreds, thousands of people had family or friends down there that they were concerned about and were hanging by every word... and to think, elsewhere some of these fools were worried they were missing "24" or "Heroes"...
I work in the mental health field.
An interesting fact is that Governer Huntsman has been cutting the budget for mental health almost every year he has been in office. That means fewer of the people suffering from severe mental illness can't afford the meds that could cost them hundreds of dollars a month. Pretty soon we have a significant increase in the number of unmedicated mentally ill individuals walking the street.
The last time the budget cuts got this low, the triad center shooting occured. I'm all for concealed weapons and citizen intervention but I also seriously question if this is a case of some one who needed help and wasn't getting it.
An interesting fact is that Governer Huntsman has been cutting the budget for mental health almost every year he has been in office. That means fewer of the people suffering from severe mental illness can't afford the meds that could cost them hundreds of dollars a month. Pretty soon we have a significant increase in the number of unmedicated mentally ill individuals walking the street.
The last time the budget cuts got this low, the triad center shooting occured. I'm all for concealed weapons and citizen intervention but I also seriously question if this is a case of some one who needed help and wasn't getting it.
Is the only thing I can think of to describe what happened this last evening. I hope and pray for all those affected by this. It is a horrible day for all of us here in Utah.
To bad this happend, sorry for the families who lost a member. I don't think that giving everybody a shot gun is a solution. Maybe the gunmen could have been killed earlier. But what if the armed citizen aimes for the gunmen and misses his target and maybe shoots another citizen? What if...
If one lunatick freaks out there's nothing you can do about it. You can't prevent this. But ... Oh wait... Security level will be raised, there will be armed officers in front of the mall, everybody in the neighbourhood will buy a shotgun. It can all start over again.
A belgian (europe) opinion
If one lunatick freaks out there's nothing you can do about it. You can't prevent this. But ... Oh wait... Security level will be raised, there will be armed officers in front of the mall, everybody in the neighbourhood will buy a shotgun. It can all start over again.
A belgian (europe) opinion
Does anyone know if the shooter was a Radical Islamic Terrorist? or a guy fired from the Trolley Square Mall? or a Druggie high and out of his mind? Or a Gang minority kid doing his initiation?
If we find out more about this murderer, perhaps we can better prepare and protect our great state of Utah against this ever happening again!
If we find out more about this murderer, perhaps we can better prepare and protect our great state of Utah against this ever happening again!
For those who may be interested. Besides KSL's comment boards, the following might also be a good place to discuss local news and issues concerning Utah. I'm actually quite surprised that I don't ever see anyone posting to this board.
[http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=496566&func=3&channel=CityGuide] Here, though, you have the option to employ the use of bold, italics and other format options plus other options of which aren't available on KSL's comment boards.
[http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=496566&func=3&channel=CityGuide] Here, though, you have the option to employ the use of bold, italics and other format options plus other options of which aren't available on KSL's comment boards.
Average citizens in America have become 'drunk' with the idea that they are immune or not accountable for their attitudes and actions in our modern culture. This goes both 'ways'. It's a great tragedy what happened and on the same day another case of 'rage' took place on the other side of the USA. When a society loves money and what it can buy more than people, that society will get more of these types of crimes. The 'middle class' of America needs to take responsibility for their part in destroying our nation instead of ignoring the plight of the poor and playing games with those who are more well off than them for personal selfish gains. I wish we all would stanad up against those who 'rationalize' these situations away with 'pop' psychology and several gallons of bleach. It's an insult to those who died and the family and friends of the 'killer'. Enough is enough. It's an old cliche, but it's true...'Love Is The Answer'. Take time to care about those around you, especially strangers. You might stop a mentally disturbed person from doing something like this again. There's war in the Middle East, but there's a silent spiritual war here in America.
You ask why the American people are so angry and why things like this happen , its not a simple question but i think it has a lot to do with the fact that this nation is bleeding from the inside out , and the fact that we are helpless to stop it , as we watch our country being destroyed it destroys us as well.I wish i had more time but got to go to work.
You ask why the American people are so angry and why things like this happen , its not a simple question but i think it has a lot to do with the fact that this nation is bleeding from the inside out , and the fact that we are helpless to stop it , as we watch our country being destroyed it destroys us as well.I wish i had more time but got to go to work.
We all watch the news and never think we shall be part of it. Television is still the main communication tool and on a Monday night when more people were watching “24”, seeing Jack Bauer save the world with bodies and explosions being found every which way we turn. We are far from reality. Then the story breaks and “real” death and drama are unfolding in your own backyard.
It is fact that viewers of both Fox’s “24” and NBC’s “Heroes where calling complaining that the “real” world was interfering with their viewing pleasure. Just where are the minds of these individuals? Have we been desensitized to point that death or community concerns don’t matter anymore? Logic it seems is missing!
This is a city that houses the head of the Mormon Church, it has the Salt Lake Temple and churches nearly on every corner and the main theme is the family. Why on God’s earth would someone want to blatantly take a life? With the information at hand a single 18 year old white male killer snuffed out six lives and wounded four others with a pump action shot gun and a hand gun, wearing a trench coat and possibly emulating a scene from a movie.
What happened? Why? Who and what triggered this killer to randomly change ten families lives including his own, with the continuing pulling of a trigger?
This the nightmare you don’t ever think will happen on your own doorstep. Whether it is a local Mall, commercial building or just your local small town office, death can be a moment away. Are there signs that someone is preparing for these events or was this killer just silently living his own dream and he alone knowing how it would all end?
This is a lot of information from the general public, important information when added to police statements that will assist in understanding why this occurred. Shootings happen every single day around the world. In the Western world we analyze and look at the social events that are the forerunner to this horrific circumstance. The killer’s family, friends and colleagues will know the answer to all of the questions and will be using such words and phrases as: “I should have done something”, I always knew he would do something stupid”, I was afraid he would hurt me”, why didn’t I tell someone”, “I told him it would kill him”, “why?”
Somewhere along the line we shall find that this killer had a web site or a diary that will allow us to understand his mode of thinking. Others will ask more questions than we have answers for and we only hope that we can learn from the gleaned information. In fact we better learn so preventive measures can be established. The latter is farfetched because all humans are different or are they? We are a nation of copycats in many respects, just look at our fast food eating habits, clothing, social viewing habits and recreational exploits.
Are you seeing the pattern?
Are you a creature of habit?
Domestic violence is not confined to the home. We have all heard of someone going “Postal”? Meaning an individual going berserk and taking out personal frustration on fellow workers, normally or abnormally using a gun and killing people before he or she takes their own life. Cowards that cannot face the facts and flip beyond our imagination. Harsh reality that as our society expands and grows that seems to be exacerbating our sensibility.
It is our responsibility to know our surroundings, the people we associate with, whether we like it or not, there are weird people everywhere. It doesn’t mean you can’t trust anyone; it is just that you must set a precedent of personal standards. If in doubt get out!
What can you, yes you do to cut down or eliminate these types of actions? Simple, be aware of what is going on around you, at work, in the family and with your friends. Snitching saves lives, especially when it is your own!
Start thinking, because life can be so short, ask six families in Salt Lake City…
It is fact that viewers of both Fox’s “24” and NBC’s “Heroes where calling complaining that the “real” world was interfering with their viewing pleasure. Just where are the minds of these individuals? Have we been desensitized to point that death or community concerns don’t matter anymore? Logic it seems is missing!
This is a city that houses the head of the Mormon Church, it has the Salt Lake Temple and churches nearly on every corner and the main theme is the family. Why on God’s earth would someone want to blatantly take a life? With the information at hand a single 18 year old white male killer snuffed out six lives and wounded four others with a pump action shot gun and a hand gun, wearing a trench coat and possibly emulating a scene from a movie.
What happened? Why? Who and what triggered this killer to randomly change ten families lives including his own, with the continuing pulling of a trigger?
This the nightmare you don’t ever think will happen on your own doorstep. Whether it is a local Mall, commercial building or just your local small town office, death can be a moment away. Are there signs that someone is preparing for these events or was this killer just silently living his own dream and he alone knowing how it would all end?
This is a lot of information from the general public, important information when added to police statements that will assist in understanding why this occurred. Shootings happen every single day around the world. In the Western world we analyze and look at the social events that are the forerunner to this horrific circumstance. The killer’s family, friends and colleagues will know the answer to all of the questions and will be using such words and phrases as: “I should have done something”, I always knew he would do something stupid”, I was afraid he would hurt me”, why didn’t I tell someone”, “I told him it would kill him”, “why?”
Somewhere along the line we shall find that this killer had a web site or a diary that will allow us to understand his mode of thinking. Others will ask more questions than we have answers for and we only hope that we can learn from the gleaned information. In fact we better learn so preventive measures can be established. The latter is farfetched because all humans are different or are they? We are a nation of copycats in many respects, just look at our fast food eating habits, clothing, social viewing habits and recreational exploits.
Are you seeing the pattern?
Are you a creature of habit?
Domestic violence is not confined to the home. We have all heard of someone going “Postal”? Meaning an individual going berserk and taking out personal frustration on fellow workers, normally or abnormally using a gun and killing people before he or she takes their own life. Cowards that cannot face the facts and flip beyond our imagination. Harsh reality that as our society expands and grows that seems to be exacerbating our sensibility.
It is our responsibility to know our surroundings, the people we associate with, whether we like it or not, there are weird people everywhere. It doesn’t mean you can’t trust anyone; it is just that you must set a precedent of personal standards. If in doubt get out!
What can you, yes you do to cut down or eliminate these types of actions? Simple, be aware of what is going on around you, at work, in the family and with your friends. Snitching saves lives, especially when it is your own!
Start thinking, because life can be so short, ask six families in Salt Lake City…
Nick A.
IM A BROTHER OFFICER IN TEXAS, BUT IM FROM SALT LAKE. I ACTUALLY INSTRUCT OFFICERS ON HOW TO RESPONDED TO ACTIVE SHOOTER SITUATIONS JUST LIKE THIS ONE. YOU OFFICERS DID EXACTLY WHAT YOU HAD TO DO. THESE TYPES OF CALLS ARE WORSE CASE SCENARIOS. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO SAVE EVERY INDIVIDUAL. BUT BY TAKING ACTION YOU CAN SAVE AS MANY AS POSSIBLE. BECAUSE OF YOUR HEROIC EFFORTS MANY MORE LIVES WERE SAVED. YOU MAN NOT FEEL LIKE HEROS BECAUSE IN YOUR MIND YOU WERE JUST DOING YOUR JOB. YOU DID YOUR JOB AND YOU DID IT VERY WELL. GOD BLESS YOU ALL AND YOUR FAMILIES.
A BROTHER OFFICER
MY HEART, AND PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE FAMILIES THAT LOST IN THIS TRAGIC EVENT.
[Please don't shout with ALL CAPS.]
A BROTHER OFFICER
MY HEART, AND PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE FAMILIES THAT LOST IN THIS TRAGIC EVENT.
[Please don't shout with ALL CAPS.]
I went to Trolley Square last night to pick up something at Bath & Body Works. Little did I know that something like this was going to happen. I was in the restroom when I heard a loud bang. I thought something had fallen. I left the restroom upstairs and started walking over towards the stairs to go back down and i heard another shotgun blast. I thought it was a dry ice bomb cause i saw a guy ducking by a brick column and thought he might have thrown it downstairs or something. He looked over at me and yelled, "It's ok, I'm Ogden City PD!" He then stood up and started pointing his gun towards what I'm guessing was the shooter. I still wasn't sure what was going on, but figured it wasn't safe to stay there. I ended up crossing over the glass bridge over 6th south and walked over to my car that was in the same parking lot where I guess someone got shot. I was lucky enough to get into my car and leave before they locked the place down. Last thing I expected to happen to me last night. I'm just lucky I didn't go into the Bath and Body Works store first. Anyway, just thought I'd share a first hand account. It was insane!!
If I had my concealed weapons permit and was there that guy would have only got off one shot instead of killing all those innocent people. Burn in hell man.
I am sooo sorry for the people who lost loved ones my prayers are with you.
I am sooo sorry for the people who lost loved ones my prayers are with you.
CaliCorbs : Trained security, and an off-duty policemen didn't save 5 people. One of the dead people was 15 years old. All of you anti-gun people need to re-think your stance, one day you may be in the same situation as these people. If you are unarmed, you probably won't be able to complain about it.
I am not attacking the cop who is undoubtedly a hero, nor am I saying the security gaurd is at fault. I am simply stating that even a trained professional who was there and was armed, who took his life into his own hands to stop a madman, wasn't enough to save everyone.
I know that if I was shopping and I had a chance to react and had a concealed gun permit, I would rather take my chances being shot by a cop, than by a crazy person, when all I could do is say 'please don't shoot'. You can't reason with people who go on a killing spree...a bullet has to do the talking in some cases. This is one of those times...I feel horrible that innocent people were gunned down like animals in my hometown, and in my own state.
I will be finding out about a concealed weapons permit, I would rather take the chance of having something bad happen BECAUSE I tried to be prepared, than have to sit by and watch someone murder my entire family or innocent people.
I am not attacking the cop who is undoubtedly a hero, nor am I saying the security gaurd is at fault. I am simply stating that even a trained professional who was there and was armed, who took his life into his own hands to stop a madman, wasn't enough to save everyone.
I know that if I was shopping and I had a chance to react and had a concealed gun permit, I would rather take my chances being shot by a cop, than by a crazy person, when all I could do is say 'please don't shoot'. You can't reason with people who go on a killing spree...a bullet has to do the talking in some cases. This is one of those times...I feel horrible that innocent people were gunned down like animals in my hometown, and in my own state.
I will be finding out about a concealed weapons permit, I would rather take the chance of having something bad happen BECAUSE I tried to be prepared, than have to sit by and watch someone murder my entire family or innocent people.
http://www.d00db0x.com
I was listening to the local Fox13 TV station last night, and they were interviewing SLC mayor Rocky Anderson .... about the shooting at Trolley Square ... and being the liberal/leftist that he is, he stated, at one point ... criticizing the "prevalence of guns" in our society. What an idiot! And how stupid the liberals are that cluster close to the U. of Utah - that vote for him. Further, how cowardly a people we've become ... everyone so scared, near panic over this event and the "news" stations all preaching everyone that was in the mall that night to call this "valley mental" institution for "counseling" ! They've been traumatized and need help! Note also, that apparently the person that finally confronted this young (and obviously suicidal) shooter was an Ogden off-duty polcie officer .... hmmm , sounds like almost an "armed" citizen scenario except people will say the officer is 'trained" ... but people (and the establishmetn media) will fail to recognize that it wasn't "the police" that stopped him, but an armed citizen that was on the scene and armed ... armed because he happened to be an off-duty police officer and I think they are required to be armed, even when off-duty. Granted, he is trained but still ... had the victims been armed they might've had a chance to fire back and ... live. So, rather than claim it's the "prevalence of guns" that allowed such an event to occur, it's the "prevalence of being unarmed and defenseless" that allows such mini-massacres to occur. We have become a nation of cowards.... I bet, and this will not be reported in the liberal establishment media, that the shooter was either on prozac (or one of the other mood-altering drugs) or had just gotten off them .... what we have here is a "prevalence of drugs" in our society. We are given the propaganda image that we are "awash" with firearms when IN FACT we are disarmed ... the guns are at home, unloaded. We are not an "armed society" but a "disarmed populace" ... had we been an armed society, such incidents would find citizens defending themselves and most likley, fewer innocent victims!
@Chip H. - Armed police are shot and killed everyday. Having a gun on your person is no guaranteee that you can defend an attack to any degree of certainty. We are a violent society and guns contribute a great deal to that.
@Chip H. - so much to read,so little time.....now when I see your name I can just skip over your dribble.
@Chip H. - Chip H. I must disagree with you. If every citizen had a gun it would lead to MANY more incidents then what we currently have. We would have people shooting each other all the time over petty quarrels. As well as many police officers accidently shooting armed citizens.
I don't think any laws should be changed and every law abiding citizen should have the right to carry a gun if they choose, it is near sighted to believe more guns will lead to less innocent deaths.
I don't think any laws should be changed and every law abiding citizen should have the right to carry a gun if they choose, it is near sighted to believe more guns will lead to less innocent deaths.
I am guilty. Last night I was shocked, shaken, and really didn't want to here all this crap on the comment board that people write in. I wrote stuff that should have been used somewhere else. I APOLOGIZE.
I should be directing my attention to the grieving families and do everything I can to help them heal. WE SHOULD ALL use this comment board as a place where we can give sympathy and express our feelings about the situation.
We shouldn't be using this comment board as a place to argue with one another. They victims families of this icident will be reading these and do you think that they will be pleased to see all the nasty comments people have made
NOOO!! THEY ARE LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY.
TO EVERYONE WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THIS ORDEAL IN ANY WAY ESPECIALLY THE VICITMS FAMILIES YOU I AM TRULY SORRY FOR YOU LOSS.
I should be directing my attention to the grieving families and do everything I can to help them heal. WE SHOULD ALL use this comment board as a place where we can give sympathy and express our feelings about the situation.
We shouldn't be using this comment board as a place to argue with one another. They victims families of this icident will be reading these and do you think that they will be pleased to see all the nasty comments people have made
NOOO!! THEY ARE LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY.
TO EVERYONE WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THIS ORDEAL IN ANY WAY ESPECIALLY THE VICITMS FAMILIES YOU I AM TRULY SORRY FOR YOU LOSS.
It seems like so many people are focusing on the political issues surrounding his (gun control issues) that we are forgetting that there are a lot of people trying to cope with a lot of pain, fear and loss as we speak. Take a breath, say a prayer and think about someone else instead of emphasizing your own platform.
@Concerned Mommy - Thank you so much for your comment. I back you 100 percent!!! More people need to heed to this message
THANKS
THANKS
Folks might want to consider that drunk drivers have taken a harsher toll on families in our lil' innocent city in just the last two months than this event. Admittedly, a random shooter is better press fodder, but an unexpecting family ripped apart in a car is just as random and violent.
@Jesse B. - I agree with your comment, but in this incident a huge amount of more people were affected. All the people in the stores and restaraunts, all the emergency personal on the scene, and all the families of this man's victims. Not to mention the poeple who are going to have to get counseling from the trauma.
The families are in my prayers and I have the deepest sympathies for you!!
The families are in my prayers and I have the deepest sympathies for you!!
In the 1950's, Salt Lake City was a place where children could stay out until 10 or 11 PM and not be worried about being molested, kidnapped or killed. People could shop or just walk down the street and not be assulted by the "bad guys". These days, the Republicans encourage people into the SL valley to get their money, Democrats encourage people (including the illegals)into the SL valley to get their votes. When you get good people, you also get the bad people who commit these tragic atrocities. Money and votes are far more important to these politicians than the quality of life. The native residents are oblivious to what's going on around them as long as they're not affected. The more people, the more crime you get, anywhere. It's a fact of life that you have to take the BAD with the GOOD. This time, the BAD won, but population growth is encouraged now, more than ever. People get what they deserve. Are votes and dollars worth more than the quality of life, itself.
Okay - let me get this straight- people are actually thinking that if a certified gun-carrying citizen was there this would have ended faster? Are you really that clueless?
If cops were to come into a situation and see guns drawn how in the world are they supposed to know who is the bad guy? If all the gun-happy citizens pulled out their weapons to "protect" themselves imagine the tragedy! How in the world would the police know who is the correct perpetrator? How would the police know if in fact they had the right person? How would police know to not shoot someone who was simply "protecting" themselves or someone else? Get your minds & thinking out of the old west - these are new times. Police do not need gun-hyper citizens playing COPS just because they have a gun. They need people to stay calm & alert - not to pull out handguns and have a "justice" free-for-all!!! GET A CLUE!!!
If cops were to come into a situation and see guns drawn how in the world are they supposed to know who is the bad guy? If all the gun-happy citizens pulled out their weapons to "protect" themselves imagine the tragedy! How in the world would the police know who is the correct perpetrator? How would the police know if in fact they had the right person? How would police know to not shoot someone who was simply "protecting" themselves or someone else? Get your minds & thinking out of the old west - these are new times. Police do not need gun-hyper citizens playing COPS just because they have a gun. They need people to stay calm & alert - not to pull out handguns and have a "justice" free-for-all!!! GET A CLUE!!!
@Grand-Living - The cops would arrive at the scene with a dead gun-man. They would know who the bad guy is by the thousand of bullet holes in his chest. The good guys would be the ones all pointing their guns in the same direction.
We can take solace in the fact that everything happens for a reason. The Lord's ways are not man's ways.
Call me crazy, but why didn't the cops cover the girls body with a blanket. That was somebody's loved one laying there. Her picture is all over the media. And please...media. Have some sensetivity and common decency. Was that photo necessary to print?
I was in Rodizio Grill when all this was taking place and it was the scariest thing I have ever been through. I am so glad that only the police officer was the one firing back, due to the fact that he had the training and there were already fatalities. I am so sad for the people who lost their lives in this tragic event, and I am so glad that so many got out safe. Please pray for the victims and their families, and also for all of the others who are traumatized!
Grand-Living : Ok, one more time, let me recap the facts. The off-duty Odgen City police officer was the one who cornered the guy. He was eating dinner and stepped in to stop this guy or more people would probably be dead. The shooter had a handgun too and probably have ammunition for that as well. If the Ogden City cop hadn't been ON THE SCENE AT THE TIME, more people would be dead. I don't find this logic tricky or hard to follow.
You asked how would the cops know the citizen from the killer? They have these things called radios, they have scanners, don't you think they got a ton of calls to Dispatch from people in the stores? Yes they did, they probably got a description of the shooter minutes after the first shot was fired. Don't be niave and think that the cops aren't trained. if I have to take my chances at being killed by a cop instead of a maniac, again, I will take my chances with the cops warning me before they shoot me, versus trying to communicate with the killer and ask him nicely to put the gun down.
How closely have you been following this story? There are reports that people threw chairs at the guy to try to stop him. If some of these people had guns, maybe only a few people would have been injured and the day may have been saved by a normal citizen. This is the point people are trying to make. Do you think that just because someone has a gun that they are a danger to you? A gun can protect you and kill you, the difference is the person carrying it and the training or lack of training they have had. Stop for a second and put yourself in this situation. You are at the mall minding your own business, and someone starts shooting people...taking aim and killing people like they mean nothing.
Now put yourself in the situation of the people hiding in closets. I bet they would be happy to have a weapon TO PROTECT THEMSELVES. If you think you can defend yourself with karate or by throwing a chair at someone with a 12 gauge, you are not on planet earth. A shotgun is good at close range, but a handgun or a rifle at a distance will take out a threat of someone with a shotgun. You can't throw your 'anti-voilence agenda' at a murder and hope he will be stopped by a flying chair. WAKE UP. I am not saying we should all be 'packing heat' but people who fear guns are the same people who are ignorant, and those are the same kind of danger if you ask me.
You asked how would the cops know the citizen from the killer? They have these things called radios, they have scanners, don't you think they got a ton of calls to Dispatch from people in the stores? Yes they did, they probably got a description of the shooter minutes after the first shot was fired. Don't be niave and think that the cops aren't trained. if I have to take my chances at being killed by a cop instead of a maniac, again, I will take my chances with the cops warning me before they shoot me, versus trying to communicate with the killer and ask him nicely to put the gun down.
How closely have you been following this story? There are reports that people threw chairs at the guy to try to stop him. If some of these people had guns, maybe only a few people would have been injured and the day may have been saved by a normal citizen. This is the point people are trying to make. Do you think that just because someone has a gun that they are a danger to you? A gun can protect you and kill you, the difference is the person carrying it and the training or lack of training they have had. Stop for a second and put yourself in this situation. You are at the mall minding your own business, and someone starts shooting people...taking aim and killing people like they mean nothing.
Now put yourself in the situation of the people hiding in closets. I bet they would be happy to have a weapon TO PROTECT THEMSELVES. If you think you can defend yourself with karate or by throwing a chair at someone with a 12 gauge, you are not on planet earth. A shotgun is good at close range, but a handgun or a rifle at a distance will take out a threat of someone with a shotgun. You can't throw your 'anti-voilence agenda' at a murder and hope he will be stopped by a flying chair. WAKE UP. I am not saying we should all be 'packing heat' but people who fear guns are the same people who are ignorant, and those are the same kind of danger if you ask me.
http://www.d00db0x.com
In reading over 400 of these comments it is sad to realize how in the majority of them, the dominant theme is anger. Anger, not just directed at the gunman or the tragedy, but rage and anger in speaking to one another. This seems to be a time of great tragedy, of sorrow and an unbelievanle sadness about what our world is becomming. As parents and citizens how are we contributing to this? Do we have the fortitude to turn away from the ugly. To unplug the violent? To teach the philosophy of beauty and the search for meaning in the life we have been awarded? A wake up call to us all. Fred Rogers has stated that in every television news tragedy, we must search and teach our children of the heros and the good which was also present. May Utah begin to heal from yet another tragedy by focusing more on those who displayed such a natural compassion for saving lives, and may thist instinct be the thread which holds us together.
i agree with George S. Things do happen for a reason and now is the time when the community needs to come together and help eachother out.
There are people who live around the Trolley area who are also affected by this act of evil.
I have lived near Trolley Square most my life. Before it was a mall I remember the buses lined up in the yard, going with my mom to pay our light bill in an upstairs office there. It is where I played my first video game, where I hung out as a teenager. It’s also a place where my kids hung out and where my daughters worked for a short time during her teenage years. We go to eat and shop there frequently. It was always a "safe place" I am heart stricken and sick about what has happened there last night.
This is not the same place I was raised. The Trolley Square community has now been changed forever, and now we join those who thought it could not happen here.
My heart goes out to the families who lost a loved one last night and to those injured.
To those who witnessed this terrible crime and those who were present, I wish you strength and peace.
Thanks goes out to the SLPD and other responding agencies.
I have lived near Trolley Square most my life. Before it was a mall I remember the buses lined up in the yard, going with my mom to pay our light bill in an upstairs office there. It is where I played my first video game, where I hung out as a teenager. It’s also a place where my kids hung out and where my daughters worked for a short time during her teenage years. We go to eat and shop there frequently. It was always a "safe place" I am heart stricken and sick about what has happened there last night.
This is not the same place I was raised. The Trolley Square community has now been changed forever, and now we join those who thought it could not happen here.
My heart goes out to the families who lost a loved one last night and to those injured.
To those who witnessed this terrible crime and those who were present, I wish you strength and peace.
Thanks goes out to the SLPD and other responding agencies.
Simple point folks - if there weren't guns so easily available - there wouldn't be idiots using them to kill people. I understand the need for people to feel safe - but look at the stats around the world. We allow guns - more people die of guns.
And yes - I know all about radios - thanks. That does not mean that in the heat of a gun battle the police will know exactly who is who. If you read all the reports of the description of the shooter - they are very, very different. So - guarantee me that everyone who carries a gun is completely trained, has the knowledge of how to use that gun in a crowded area, knows how to identify themselves in a hostile situation to law enforcement, has taken some serious anger management classes and does not drink to excess or overmedicate - then sure - I would feel safe....but that is not possible...is it?
And yes - I know all about radios - thanks. That does not mean that in the heat of a gun battle the police will know exactly who is who. If you read all the reports of the description of the shooter - they are very, very different. So - guarantee me that everyone who carries a gun is completely trained, has the knowledge of how to use that gun in a crowded area, knows how to identify themselves in a hostile situation to law enforcement, has taken some serious anger management classes and does not drink to excess or overmedicate - then sure - I would feel safe....but that is not possible...is it?
Enough with the negativity. What we need to do is focus - as a community - on how to prevent these things from happening. What we do to each other as humban beings is just horrible....
@Grand-Living - Solejman Talovic a Bosnian Muslim refugee. I tried to post this once already by itself and it seems the press does not want this info to get out.
"Some say officers treated everyone like suspects -- ordering those hiding in storerooms, bathrooms or under stairwells, to lie on the floor with their hands on their heads until police were sure no one posed a threat." quote from article
I don't think there is any other way to handle that kind of situation. They had no choice but to ensure there were not other shooters. Shooters usually don't wear signs identifying them self as a murder.
Great police work, in a terrible situation.
I don't think there is any other way to handle that kind of situation. They had no choice but to ensure there were not other shooters. Shooters usually don't wear signs identifying them self as a murder.
Great police work, in a terrible situation.
that ran TO the sound of gunfire instead of away from it. This takes courage, it takes a willingness to suck it up for the common good of society. While I was not there last night, I do have personal experience with "active shooter" situations in another state, and my profound gratitude and admiration will always be ther for the off-duty Ogden Police Department officer who risked his/her own life for ours, with no thought of their own.
It is good that these kind of events are not "normal" for Utah (yet), but let us not let complacency and apathy overwhelm us. To think, "It can't or won't ever happen here..." is sheer idiocy. It can, and will happen again unfortuantely. If we become more oriented towards each other as a community, then the loonies who commit these ramapge/spree style events, will stand out and our public safety can deal with them far more effectively.
May peace be with the families, friends and loved ones of the lost and wounded.
It is good that these kind of events are not "normal" for Utah (yet), but let us not let complacency and apathy overwhelm us. To think, "It can't or won't ever happen here..." is sheer idiocy. It can, and will happen again unfortuantely. If we become more oriented towards each other as a community, then the loonies who commit these ramapge/spree style events, will stand out and our public safety can deal with them far more effectively.
May peace be with the families, friends and loved ones of the lost and wounded.
Is he trying to revive the "Hitler moustache?" and what's with the shaved head too - is this guy moonlighting as an Aryan Nation spokesperson? It looks like he tried to grow out the rest of his moustache overnight and paint in the rest for the news conference. Someone ought to tell that guy that having a moustache like that is an automatic frown! Jesus!
I will pray that I am never in such a situation, that I never have any cause to wish I was carrying a firearm. And chances are, that's exactly what will happen. I guess it's no surprise that so many commenters are singing the praises of an armed populace and, "if only more people with guns had been there to stop it, everything would be a-okay!" Especially in a state as conservative as Utah. The fact is, though, that most likely, none of us will ever have need to use a gun in self defense.
Just consider how many people here have said some variation on, "if only I'd been there with my gun, I'd have put that punk down!" But they weren't there, were they? How often have they ever been in any similar situation? If I could take bets at 100:1 odds that they will never be in any such situation I'd make myself a rich man.
What that means is there are thousands of people needlessly carrying around deadly tools. Whether it is their intent to use their guns "for good" or whatever, a firearm is still a deadly tool. And no matter how well trained they are, accidents happen. The more deadly tools we put in public, the more common those accidents will become. Stupid people do stupid things. The easier we make it for stupid people to carry around deadly tools, the more likely some stupid person is going to slip through whatever licensing process we put in place and do something stupid. Have a stupid accident.
Yeah, this is a very high profile case where it may have been helpful if John Wayne had shown up and blown away the bad guy at the first sign of trouble. Fortunately, thank the Lord, these catastrophic incidents are the exception. Unfortunately, stupid accidents aren't nearly as exceptional.
Just consider how many people here have said some variation on, "if only I'd been there with my gun, I'd have put that punk down!" But they weren't there, were they? How often have they ever been in any similar situation? If I could take bets at 100:1 odds that they will never be in any such situation I'd make myself a rich man.
What that means is there are thousands of people needlessly carrying around deadly tools. Whether it is their intent to use their guns "for good" or whatever, a firearm is still a deadly tool. And no matter how well trained they are, accidents happen. The more deadly tools we put in public, the more common those accidents will become. Stupid people do stupid things. The easier we make it for stupid people to carry around deadly tools, the more likely some stupid person is going to slip through whatever licensing process we put in place and do something stupid. Have a stupid accident.
Yeah, this is a very high profile case where it may have been helpful if John Wayne had shown up and blown away the bad guy at the first sign of trouble. Fortunately, thank the Lord, these catastrophic incidents are the exception. Unfortunately, stupid accidents aren't nearly as exceptional.
I will pray that I am never in such a situation, that I never have any cause to wish I was carrying a firearm. And chances are, that's exactly what will happen. I guess it's no surprise that so many commenters are singing the praises of an armed populace and, "if only more people with guns had been there to stop it, everything would be a-okay!" Especially in a state as conservative as Utah. The fact is, though, that most likely, none of us will ever have need to use a gun in self defense.
Just consider how many people here have said some variation on, "if only I'd been there with my gun, I'd have put that punk down!" But they weren't there, were they? How often have they ever been in any similar situation? If I could take bets at 100:1 odds that they will never be in any such situation I'd make myself a rich man.
What that means is there are thousands of people needlessly carrying around deadly tools. Whether it is their intent to use their guns "for good" or whatever, a firearm is still a deadly tool. And no matter how well trained they are, accidents happen. The more deadly tools we put in public, the more common those accidents will become. Stupid people do stupid things. The easier we make it for stupid people to carry around deadly tools, the more likely some stupid person is going to slip through whatever licensing process we put in place and do something stupid. Have a stupid accident.
Yeah, this is a very high profile case where it may have been helpful if John Wayne had shown up and blown away the bad guy at the first sign of trouble. Fortunately, thank the Lord, these catastrophic incidents are the exception. Unfortunately, stupid accidents aren't nearly as exceptional.
Just consider how many people here have said some variation on, "if only I'd been there with my gun, I'd have put that punk down!" But they weren't there, were they? How often have they ever been in any similar situation? If I could take bets at 100:1 odds that they will never be in any such situation I'd make myself a rich man.
What that means is there are thousands of people needlessly carrying around deadly tools. Whether it is their intent to use their guns "for good" or whatever, a firearm is still a deadly tool. And no matter how well trained they are, accidents happen. The more deadly tools we put in public, the more common those accidents will become. Stupid people do stupid things. The easier we make it for stupid people to carry around deadly tools, the more likely some stupid person is going to slip through whatever licensing process we put in place and do something stupid. Have a stupid accident.
Yeah, this is a very high profile case where it may have been helpful if John Wayne had shown up and blown away the bad guy at the first sign of trouble. Fortunately, thank the Lord, these catastrophic incidents are the exception. Unfortunately, stupid accidents aren't nearly as exceptional.
@mtwcmarsh - So why do police officers carry guns? They hardly ever use them anyway... so why don't we just take them away from them so they won't have an "accident."
The gunman was 18 yr old Solejman Talovic a Bosnian MUSLIM.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5218570
Looks like it's beginning....
God help us all.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5218570
Looks like it's beginning....
God help us all.
God bless the officer who took action and risked his life to save the lives of others. I will not call him an "off-duty" officer as most police officers are never truly off-duty, as this officer proved.
Remember anytime you hear about a law to restrict guns in certain buildings, like a church or a college, or to restrict guns in any way from a law abiding person that it will only restrict men like this from protecting you when a criminal decides to start killing everyone in sight. "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
Condolences to those who lost a loved one. To anyone who escaped or had a loved one escape, never forget the officer walked into the line of fire to save the lives of complete strangers.
To all news media: We do not care what the killer's middle name is, what excuses people may make for him, what his favorite TV show was or how good or bad his grades were. He was a coward, a loser, a murderer and should be boxed, buried and forgotten so those who entertain an ending like his will know there is no glory and publicity associated with such a low act.
Remember anytime you hear about a law to restrict guns in certain buildings, like a church or a college, or to restrict guns in any way from a law abiding person that it will only restrict men like this from protecting you when a criminal decides to start killing everyone in sight. "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
Condolences to those who lost a loved one. To anyone who escaped or had a loved one escape, never forget the officer walked into the line of fire to save the lives of complete strangers.
To all news media: We do not care what the killer's middle name is, what excuses people may make for him, what his favorite TV show was or how good or bad his grades were. He was a coward, a loser, a murderer and should be boxed, buried and forgotten so those who entertain an ending like his will know there is no glory and publicity associated with such a low act.
Reason & Accountability!!!
@Lyman DeKoquonut - "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
This is SO true.. why can't people get this concept?
This is SO true.. why can't people get this concept?
I can't believe people are making a gun issue out of this. I actually just heard a [to remain un-named idiot] on the radio say that he thinks this gunman targeted Trolley Square because there are not guns allowed there, and that if the signs hadn't been there saying "no firearms permitted", then he wouldn't have gone in for fear of being shot.
It's the biggest load of BS and ignorance I have ever heard.
Untrained hands have no place concealing weapons. Officers are trained for years to learn to handle these situations, and your average Joe gun-slinging citizen would NOT be capable of handling the situation properly.
Leave the gun-talk out of this. This is about a disturbed individual that somehow got his hands on plenty of guns & ammo.
It's the biggest load of BS and ignorance I have ever heard.
Untrained hands have no place concealing weapons. Officers are trained for years to learn to handle these situations, and your average Joe gun-slinging citizen would NOT be capable of handling the situation properly.
Leave the gun-talk out of this. This is about a disturbed individual that somehow got his hands on plenty of guns & ammo.
Where was mall security when all this was coming down? One witness--a store clerk--said she saw security run by. All malls have at least one security guard. True, he probably wasn't armed, but what happened to him?
to the people of SLC for their loss. I was in disbelief when I heard the news of the Trolley Square shootings. Salt Lake seems like the last place something like this would happen.
Earlier I read a post where the author wrote about the shooter possibly having a mental illness and because of having a mental illness that made his mind susceptible to Satan's influence and control I would like to respond by making the following comments.
To the person who wrote "Off Duty Officer" I do see that you were trying to be appreciative and complement the off duty officer. My thanks go out to him as well as all the others who acted so bravely last night. It concerns me greatly though when people refer to an illness as being Satan driven. My Aunt has diabetes - is that because of Satan? My mother has severe arthritis and her symptoms have nothing to do with Satan.
Everyone reading this hang in here with me please. I am not off topic. I knew this was going to come up sooner... First of all we do not know yet anything about this young man who went to Trolley Square and opened fire. We do know it is a tragedy and absolutely heartbreaking to so many (including the family of the young man who was the shooter. We just do not know anything yet to start making accusations. Yes, I do think it is very normal for us to want to try to make sense out of this horrible tragedy. Some of you have even said that you would like to think of this young man as being mentally ill rather than someone who is evil and/or a terrorist.
I would like to make two points: 1. People who have mental illness are more apt TO BE harmed than harm others. Still people with mental illness can harm others when not receiving appropriate treatment - and even after saying that the percentage is very low that a person with a mental illness is going to be harmful to others, and yet it can happen. (We are desperately needing new mental health reform programs in our country and state to assist and treat all people with mental illnesses!!!!) [Quick important note: Our prisons have become the psychiatric hospitals and treatment facilities of the 1960s since those hospitals and facilities were shut down. The majority of people in prison who have mental illnesses are there for non-violent crimes. Where else do we find an overwhelming percentage of mentally ill people? Yes, of course on the streets....among our homeless.] This is no way to treat the sick.
2. Again mental illness and Satan have absolutely NO correlation!!!!! A person does not become mentally ill because they are sinning or that have sinned in the past a sin that they have not yet resolved... A person is not stricken with mental illness because of sin or Satan. Mental illness is a neurobiological disorder: a no fault brain disorder
So, we do not know this young man's history as of yet. It is scary not knowing the motivation behind his behavior. If he indeed had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder(PTSD) and/or other types of mental illnesses let us learn form this incident and learn more about mental illness and the treatments needed for mental illness. Then we need to make sure there is funding available so individuals and families can afford treatment for mental illness without prejudiceness.
It seems in our society we often turn our heads when it comes to someone suffering with a mental illness. Maybe it is because we do not know how to help that person. Maybe it is because that the ill person is in our own family and we are afraid of the stigmatising that often is experienced with mental illness. Maybe because of ignorance we blame the ill person for his/her own illness. Plus, believe it or not statistics show that there are still many people who think mental illness is connected to sinning and/or Satan. It wasn't really that long ago in history when holes were drilled into the heads of people (adults, adolescents and children) who had mental illness with the idea that the holes would allow an escape for the evil spirits who had supposedly overtaken these individuals who showed symptoms of mental illness.
(I just heard on the news that it is highly thought by a medical team that the young man who ended so many other lives and was the cause of his own death was most likely suffering from PTSD) Hopefully there will be a lot we can learn and on many different levels from this sad and tragic incident that took place here in SLC, UTAH and USA just last night. Let's not let the six who died die in vain nor those who have been injured physically and/or emotional have to remember this painful ordeal without taking charge and taking back control by demanding that our community learn (become more educated about mental illnesses and what can be and needs to be done for growth in the mental health fields, government and our community and then put that knowledge into action that will make a positive difference) ...learn from this horrible experience and try to make tomorrow a safer and better day for everyone. We as a community must be active! My best to everyone who reads my post.
To the person who wrote "Off Duty Officer" I do see that you were trying to be appreciative and complement the off duty officer. My thanks go out to him as well as all the others who acted so bravely last night. It concerns me greatly though when people refer to an illness as being Satan driven. My Aunt has diabetes - is that because of Satan? My mother has severe arthritis and her symptoms have nothing to do with Satan.
Everyone reading this hang in here with me please. I am not off topic. I knew this was going to come up sooner... First of all we do not know yet anything about this young man who went to Trolley Square and opened fire. We do know it is a tragedy and absolutely heartbreaking to so many (including the family of the young man who was the shooter. We just do not know anything yet to start making accusations. Yes, I do think it is very normal for us to want to try to make sense out of this horrible tragedy. Some of you have even said that you would like to think of this young man as being mentally ill rather than someone who is evil and/or a terrorist.
I would like to make two points: 1. People who have mental illness are more apt TO BE harmed than harm others. Still people with mental illness can harm others when not receiving appropriate treatment - and even after saying that the percentage is very low that a person with a mental illness is going to be harmful to others, and yet it can happen. (We are desperately needing new mental health reform programs in our country and state to assist and treat all people with mental illnesses!!!!) [Quick important note: Our prisons have become the psychiatric hospitals and treatment facilities of the 1960s since those hospitals and facilities were shut down. The majority of people in prison who have mental illnesses are there for non-violent crimes. Where else do we find an overwhelming percentage of mentally ill people? Yes, of course on the streets....among our homeless.] This is no way to treat the sick.
2. Again mental illness and Satan have absolutely NO correlation!!!!! A person does not become mentally ill because they are sinning or that have sinned in the past a sin that they have not yet resolved... A person is not stricken with mental illness because of sin or Satan. Mental illness is a neurobiological disorder: a no fault brain disorder
So, we do not know this young man's history as of yet. It is scary not knowing the motivation behind his behavior. If he indeed had Post Traumatic Stress Disorder(PTSD) and/or other types of mental illnesses let us learn form this incident and learn more about mental illness and the treatments needed for mental illness. Then we need to make sure there is funding available so individuals and families can afford treatment for mental illness without prejudiceness.
It seems in our society we often turn our heads when it comes to someone suffering with a mental illness. Maybe it is because we do not know how to help that person. Maybe it is because that the ill person is in our own family and we are afraid of the stigmatising that often is experienced with mental illness. Maybe because of ignorance we blame the ill person for his/her own illness. Plus, believe it or not statistics show that there are still many people who think mental illness is connected to sinning and/or Satan. It wasn't really that long ago in history when holes were drilled into the heads of people (adults, adolescents and children) who had mental illness with the idea that the holes would allow an escape for the evil spirits who had supposedly overtaken these individuals who showed symptoms of mental illness.
(I just heard on the news that it is highly thought by a medical team that the young man who ended so many other lives and was the cause of his own death was most likely suffering from PTSD) Hopefully there will be a lot we can learn and on many different levels from this sad and tragic incident that took place here in SLC, UTAH and USA just last night. Let's not let the six who died die in vain nor those who have been injured physically and/or emotional have to remember this painful ordeal without taking charge and taking back control by demanding that our community learn (become more educated about mental illnesses and what can be and needs to be done for growth in the mental health fields, government and our community and then put that knowledge into action that will make a positive difference) ...learn from this horrible experience and try to make tomorrow a safer and better day for everyone. We as a community must be active! My best to everyone who reads my post.
from debber, wishing you a good and healthy life...
I feel deeply sorry the victims, friends, and families of this event. I prey that the families and friends of the loved and lost in this tragedy will be divinely comforted in their trial. Know that I, my family, and many people I know have you in our prayers. I believe that the perpetrator of this heinous act will realize his eternal accountability for the last 6 minutes of his life. It’s so sad to me how any human being could make the conscious decision that would forever alter his and the lives of so many. There is so much to live for and so much to let others live for. For one person to willfully take so much from so many people has got to be most selfish act committable. I’m convinced he has reserved for himself a spot in the hottest corner of hell for his actions and I’m glad that he’s there now because there is no punishment that we in this life can administer that would evoke justice.
Isn't it just wonderful.
@Europeanamerican - The problem is not multi-culturalism, but rather it is being not multi-cultural. In other words, not also being American. Immigrants do not have to shed their identity, but they must embrace their new one as well.
How exactly did multi-culturalism play a role in the previous 50 mass shootings? This looks like Columbine, that cafeteria in Killeen Texas, the Sandiego McDonald's, other high school shootings: just a person who went off the deep end and never came back. Tie it in to multiculturalism if you must, but do it for the other mass shootings as well.
Old Cletus has an ethnic back ground that he digs, but he's an American first. Shoot, the people from the old country stuck together from when they got off the boat back in the 20's right up until today. What exactly is wrong with that?
How exactly did multi-culturalism play a role in the previous 50 mass shootings? This looks like Columbine, that cafeteria in Killeen Texas, the Sandiego McDonald's, other high school shootings: just a person who went off the deep end and never came back. Tie it in to multiculturalism if you must, but do it for the other mass shootings as well.
Old Cletus has an ethnic back ground that he digs, but he's an American first. Shoot, the people from the old country stuck together from when they got off the boat back in the 20's right up until today. What exactly is wrong with that?
When we are faced with senseless tragedies like the Trolley Square shooting, we all want to know why. I have carefully read many of the news articles, searching for clues myself. I have read that Talovic's family is shocked and bewildered by his actions, and that Talovic seemed to remain expressionless during his murdurous rampage. I have read that some are questioning whether he suffered from PTSD from his early years in Bosnia.
Taking all of these things into consideration, I personally see many similarities to the tragic school shootings - Columbine, Red Lake and others- and I have to wonder if Talovic might have been on an antidepressant drug. The drug regulatory agencies in Canada and Australia have both strengthened the warnings on several antidepressant drugs, indicating that use of these drugs may lead to self harm or HARM TO OTHERS.....
We never question the fact that street drugs like LSD and heroin can lead some people to act out violently, yet we find it difficult to believe that prescribed drugs - even though they affect the same neurochemicals in the brain - could lead to such volatile outcomes. I encourage all of you to read throgh the news articles on this site: http://www.ssristories.com - and ask yourself if we all don't need to wonder if maybe there isn't a motive at all.... maybe this young man simply went ballistic because of a drug that didn't do what it was supposed to do.
If it is found that Sulejmen Talovic was using a prescribed psychiatric drug, then I believe the public has a right to know.
I send my deepest sympathy to the families and friends of the victims of this senseless tragedy, and I send my deepest sympathy to the family and friends of Sulejmen Talovic as well.
Taking all of these things into consideration, I personally see many similarities to the tragic school shootings - Columbine, Red Lake and others- and I have to wonder if Talovic might have been on an antidepressant drug. The drug regulatory agencies in Canada and Australia have both strengthened the warnings on several antidepressant drugs, indicating that use of these drugs may lead to self harm or HARM TO OTHERS.....
We never question the fact that street drugs like LSD and heroin can lead some people to act out violently, yet we find it difficult to believe that prescribed drugs - even though they affect the same neurochemicals in the brain - could lead to such volatile outcomes. I encourage all of you to read throgh the news articles on this site: http://www.ssristories.com - and ask yourself if we all don't need to wonder if maybe there isn't a motive at all.... maybe this young man simply went ballistic because of a drug that didn't do what it was supposed to do.
If it is found that Sulejmen Talovic was using a prescribed psychiatric drug, then I believe the public has a right to know.
I send my deepest sympathy to the families and friends of the victims of this senseless tragedy, and I send my deepest sympathy to the family and friends of Sulejmen Talovic as well.
could someone PLEASE explain to me why the story says feburary 13, 2007 and it's online??
Either way, still just as sad and scary as before..
Either way, still just as sad and scary as before..
@Marissa D. - This is exactly what I was wondering?!? I thought I had missed some major story on the news and then saw the date? Why are they putting it on here? Very strange!
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