Yawn... Nice...let's keep giving them press coverage.

This kiss in will not be so bad @Dan - they will pass out barf bags for the people walking by.

Again... @Ang Pinakamakapangyarihan - George Washington said, "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."

So much has been attempted, and been successful, to subvert religion in this land. You see one religion, one denomination after another sacrificing their long held principles and standards for the sake of what is popular at the moment. I don't recall God ever caving in to the masses be it great or small when it concerned being obedient to his commandments.

Second, this quote comes from a series of books I read recently authored by Chris Stewart and entitled, "The Great and Terrible". "...Now listen to me, people, for this is the key – evil can be twisted into virtue if you phrase it just right. Any vice is acceptable if you cloak it as an issue of freedom. Any immorality is worth fighting for if you tell them they are fighting for choice, if you wrap it in the mantle of privacy and freedom. So take their moral agency and turn it on them. But be patient…be patient…it takes time to turn the truth upside down..."

This comment speaks so accurately to the state of our society in America.

Lastly, Mosiah 29:26-27 states,
26"...Now it is not common that the voice of the people desireth anything contrary to that which is right; but it is common for the lesser part of the people to desire that which is not right; therefore this shall ye observe and make it your law—to do your business by the voice of the people.
27 And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land..."

As of right now, I believe the voice of the gay community is the voice of "the lesser part of the people". They are just loud and obnoxious so they get lots of press. One day we might find that the majority voice of the people desires the same thing as the lesser part does right now. If and when that time comes the warning is given in verse 27 above.

The voice of the people in California spoke and despite the attempts of a biased court, won out in the end because of the nature of the government which we have in this country.
It is too bad that other states who consider legalizing gay marriage/rights don't put the matter up for a vote among it's citizens. Rather, they try to pass these laws in their legislature thereby circumventing the peoples' voice.

BTW, 1,360 signature on the petition mentioned in this article is small beans. Heck, I put a petition online in support of Utah State Senate Bill SB81 just a few months ago and received over 1,000 signatures alone with the majority of those being KSL readers. To think that 1,360 signatures were obtained through a website that reaches people on a nationwide scale, that's not much at all.

If anything, the gay community owes the LDS church an apology for targeting them unfairly. There were so many other churches and organizations that supported Prop. 8. Not to mention the fact that the majority of voters in California voted their conscience in favor of Prop. 8.

The LDS church isn't going to apologize for their stand much less change any policy. These people know that. By taking these steps it just gives them one more thing to gripe about to the liberal press and present something good and right, like the church, as an evil entity.

@konakula29er - The Sexually Confused will be giving citizens nationally
a reason to vomit on public and private property.

Using the word "kiss-in" is incorrect.

The correct term is "grope-in".

Isn't that how it all started?



'Tail.

Kiss in good for public morals @Steve S. - I really believe this kind of in-your-face, blatant display of morally offensive conduct will ultimately backfire on the homosexuals and be good for basic morality.

Hollyweird and the media have very carefully created a positive, sympathetic image of homosexuals over the last 20 years. They have carefully limited portrayals of homosexual sexual conduct while playing up a false image of happy, talented people. They never delve into the dark side of this culture including rampant promiscuity, high suicide rates, drug and alcohol abuse, and so on. And they have very carefully avoided depictions of male homosexuals engaged in overtly sexual conduct, knowing that such depictions are offensive to most of society.

We have been the proverbial frog in warm water getting gradually hotter.

Well, these kiss-ins are the pot of boiling water that might just wake up the public to exactly how disgusting and deviant homosexual conduct is. It is NOT about a couple of attractive women fulfilling some guy's threesome fantasy. It is about men, and butch women, doing stuff in public that nobody wants to see.

Consenting adults ought to be left in peace to live their private lives as they see fit. But deviant conduct ought to be kept out of the public eye.

Good reason to be intimidated @Steve S. - An incident of lewd PDA aside, which I do not support for any orientation...

I'm pretty sure gays have good reason to feel intimidated and most likely unsafe, considering there are more than enough people that would be willing to bash out their teeth on the curb over something as minor as preference.
I just don't see how someones sexual orientation is threatening. Religions teach love, tolerance, and acceptance, but members seem to draw a line well behind their own prejudices - condemning those they do not personally know as sinners or immoral, simply because they do not share their own particular beliefs.
Aren't we all entitled to live happily and share our lives with the ones we love? How is this demanding privileges above other citizens?

@renton - Renton,

Be more careful with your words.

No qualified Christian religion teaches "acceptance" of
the Sexually Confused lifestyle.

Jesus Christ taught love and aid to the less moral of
society, but never, ever taught "acceptance".

"Acceptance" is the Hollywood version which
religion abhors.


'Tail.

Renton = Olbermann @renton - "Religions teach love, tolerance, and acceptance..." This is a classic example of deception being wrapped in a thin layer of truth. Keith Olbermann pulled this argument on Meet the Press and only won the support of those who don't know jack about what religion, the Bible, Jesus, or God has clearly taught. Repentance, morality, marriage, sanctity, family, self-control/self-restraint, and EVEN a God-given duty to STAND UP for what is right... even if that means denying some people government-sanctioned immorality.

You are correct! @Callin' the Shots - You couldn't be more right. Only people who don't know about religion would say that it teaches love, tolerance, and acceptance. How religion ever became associated with such good qualities I will never know. Too often Christianity teaches fear, bigotry, and hatred. It divides people and causes war. Unspeakable acts have been committed in the name of god... but of course you will just tell me that those were the people who were really evil and misguided... your god is the correct one... your actions are just... unlike all of those other religions throughout history. Right? Guess what, that is what every single one of those people and religions were convinced of when they committed atrocities. It all began with an overwhelming sense of righteousness. Religion is truly dangerous.

Every religion has a different viewpoint on what is right. So many of you on this forum talk about how corrupted our society is becoming and say that the only way to maintain morality is through religion. Well I'm sorry, but without organized religion I believe that we would find that less separates and divides us than you might think. Perhaps it is organized religion that is perverting and corrupting society. There is so much immorality inside of religion it makes me wonder, what exactly is the point of it? Do you all really think that people must have religion to be good moral people?

There are @renton - places that I would feel uncomfortable kissing my wife in public too. Does that mean that the world needs to change so I can have the "right" to kiss her anywhere and anytime I want? Or can we just learn that there are places it is appropriate and places it isn't?

Haven't they already tried this a few times? @Ang Pinakamakapangyarihan - They must not have gotten the reaction they wanted. How long will it be before they figure out that most people don't care?

Yeah? @cdub - Well, this story is already approaching 300 comments, and from what I can see most of them are from people taking the anti-gay or anti-kiss-in stance.

So.....who is it that doesn't care, exactly?

For all of these people who just don't seem to care about this topic, you've all sure posted a heckuva lotta comments about it.

A lot of them are... @4Brtndr1 - from a shut up, you're annoying me standpoint. It's kind of like the mall Kiosks; I really don't care what you're selling but as soon as you get in my face I get annoyed. If you read a lot of the comments they seem annoyed at the media coverage.

I see your point....but.... @cdub - .....I don't stop and converse with the annoying hounds that man those kiosks at the mall. I keep walking past them on my merry way.

Same rule applies here. If you're annoyed at the over-coverage of this story, just keep on clicking and don't bother with the comments.

The people who have no stake in this story yet constantly whine about it and post comments about it are no better than the whiners and grandstanders staging the actual kiss-ins, IMHO.

But... @4Brtndr1 - the comments are the only reason I read the news:)

4Brtndr1 @4Brtndr1 - I see your point. But, this is not a kiosk. This is an issue that you walk by this is a group of people coming to your house and protesting you. (Do not try to compare this to missionaries it is not the same. They ring your door bell and offer to share something with you and if you do not want it they leave.) These groups come to your house, violate it, and then protest you when you make them leave. Then after you make them leave they continue try to try and fight with you and protest you. Also this is a issue that you need to stand up against if you are a religious person that believes contrary to their stance. A kiosk has no political or religious repercussion.
Not the best example.

Lance T. @Lance T. - You need to go back and re-read the thread carefully. I wasn't the one who brought up the kiosk scenario. And the kiosk scenario wasn't being related to what took place at the plaza. The comments on this site were what was being related to those annoying mall kiosks.

Sounds like you've got an axe to grind and you're so eager to grind away, that you didn't bother with any other details.

4Brtndr1 @4Brtndr1 - I am sorry, but your joking right? You have to be joking.
CDUB in response to Ang Pinakamakapangyarihan saying "
Well, "kiss-in" or "grope-in" it's all gonna result in...throw-up. states "Haven't THEY already tried this a few times? THEY (the gay protesters) must not have gotten the reaction they wanted. How long will it be before THEY (the gay protesters) figure out that most people don't care?" He is clearly speaking about the gay protesters trying this protest a couple of times and getting no positive results. He then is saying that it has not accomplished anything helpful to the gay protesters cause.
You then come in and say


"Well, this story is already approaching 300 comments, and from what I can see most of them are from people taking the anti-gay or anti-kiss-in stance.

(What are you talking about! CDUB said nothing about the comments on ksl. He is talking about the gay protesters. People clearly do not care to support their cause, because what has this positively accomplished for the gay community? Nothing.)


"So.....who is it that doesn't care, exactly?"

(The people that are not joining their cause.)

"For all of these people who just don't seem to care about this topic, you've all sure posted a heckuva lotta comments about it."

(Once again, no one is talking about the comments but you. The thread you want me to follow is the thread that you irrelevantly and sophomorically inserted into the conversation, with no pretext. Then you ask me to follow the thread. That is funny!
No one was talking about the ksl comments, at this point we were talking about the protesters being gross, people getting sick of the protesters, how they (the gay protesters) were not helping their cause, how they should pass out barf bags, and etc. No one at this point had said anything about the ksl comments.
Then you come in and say what you said, because you clearly have not followed the "thread"
Now after the response you made to CDUB He then starts to talk to you about the KSL comments.
I then respond to you, by saying I can see your point BUT.
Now I never said anything about you coming up with the kiosk example. I am simply stating that how you are now using it by saying
".....I don't stop and converse with the annoying hounds that man those kiosks at the mall. I keep walking past them on my merry way.

Same rule applies here. (NO IT DOESNT) If you're annoyed at the over-coverage of this story, just keep on clicking and don't bother with the comments."

(No one was talking about the coverage of the story they were talking about how they were sick of the gay protesters. You have inserted the idea of the ksl comments, and coverage.)

The people who have no stake in this story yet constantly whine about it and post comments about it are no better than the whiners and grandstanders staging the actual kiss-ins, IMHO."
(Who has the axe to grind. No one is talking about the people who have no stake in this story. I see a lot of religous people, WHO HAVE A MASSIVE STAKE IN THIS STORY, taking a stance against the protest.)

You take the example of the kiosk and add your take on it. This is where my comments come in and say

"I see your point. But, this is not a kiosk. This is not an issue that you walk by, this is a group of people coming to your house and protesting you. (Do not try to compare this to missionaries it is not the same. They ring your door bell and offer to share something with you and if you do not want it they leave.) These groups come to your house, violate it, and then protest you when you make them leave. Then after you make them leave they continue to try and fight with you and protest you. Also this is a issue that you need to stand up against if you are a religious person that believes contrary to their stance. A kiosk has no political or religious repercussion.
Not the best example.
I am simply saying in response to your walk by the kiosk attitude, that will not work because these people come to your house, protest you on your property, etc etc.
If you can not understand what is happening, and the irony of what you said to me about following the thread at this point I am not going to dumb it down any further for you.
I can admit I do have an axe to grind but do not act like you don't either.

Regardless @4Brtndr1 - we obviously need a venue to vent our annoyance at a group of people trying to obtain special rights that no one enjoys, like kissing in places that are "intimidating" or the like.

We can vent on the boards, whereas venting in an environment where people can see our faces would result in some type of discrimination charge because we don't agree with their lifestyle choice. (Yet it doesn't work the other way, cuz they are always the victim--)

Right, you sure wouldn't want to feel discrimination yourself. @Utaitaiyo - Haha, very amusing. The whole issue here is that there is so much discrimination against the gay community that they do need to fight back. They wouldn't need to protest if people weren't treating them like second class citizens and often times like lepers. I don't know if the gay couple should have been kicked off of church property... I wasn't there so I will not pretend to know. But have you actually read the comments on this thread. They are full of hatred and discrimination. You don't know what it's like to really feel discrimination. I think my favorite part of your post is "(Yet it doesn't work the other way, cuz they are always the victim--)" hahaha, you are trying to play the victim here you hypocrite. The only difference is that you are claiming that you are a victim when you target people and tell them that they are evil and wrong (oh you mean people with fight back? poor picked on little majority! I didn't realize it was sooooo hard for you!) But see, the gay community is picked on solely because they are gay. Doesn't matter if they try to shun people as you do. People just hate them for being who they are whether they bother anyone else of not.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. The gay community puts up with discrimination on a daily basis, do you? Do people threaten your life for being yourself in public? Well MANY gay people I know deal with threats of violence (which unfortunately are not always just threats btw) and intimidation like that frequently. I am not talking about this one incident here (as most people in this discussion are not). I am talking about two people simply walking down the street holding hands or heck, just appearing and acting "gay"... attacked just for being themselves. It's pretty easy for you to sit back and hide behind your username. But they are the one's playing the victim right? Oh wait, they are standing up in public and asking to be treated the same as you are. You don't have the guts to even express your opinion in public. You think you are going to be somehow charged with discrimination by showing your face? Ya see... we have a little thing called the Constitution which guarantees free speech you moron. You are really just too big of a pansy to show your face because everyone will know that you are a bigot. Yup, you poor picked on bigot.

JJ @JJ_09 - No one is talking about gay people being beat up and picked on. What we are talking about is gay people pushing their view on a religion that clearly disagrees with them. The gay community is pushing so hard that they are actually protesting on the churches property.
Once again this is not about being unfair to the gay community. It is about the gay community never being able to do something wrong. This gay couple broke the law and they were dealt with as such. The church did nothing wrong, the gay couple did! I LDS church is not for beating, killing, abusing, and etc the gays, but they are not going to give up the principle that the LDS church believes in.
Furthermore the gays are not denied any rights.

PS MARRIAGE IS NOT A RIGHT.

How exactly are gay people pushing their view on you? @Lance T. - They are protesting on church property because the LDS church and most LDS people treat them like second class citizens. Have you actually read most of the posts on this forum? There are people saying that gays should be treated like lepers and rounded up... There are people saying that we should stone them... there a people comparing homosexuals to pedophiles... So why don't you actually read the posts on this forum and tell me again that no one is talking about beating up and picking on the gay community.

What you are failing to realize or mention is that what you call "gay people pushing their view on a religion" is actually the gay community reacting to the their treatment by the LDS church and it's members. In this case (as I have already said), I don't know if the couple should have been kicked off of church property and ticketed. I wasn't there and don't pretend to know how things really transpired, but this forum has gone way beyond talking about this one incident. Not only that but if it were this one incident there would almost certainly not be protests over it. The LDS church stuck it's nose into the political arena and struck first. Then, when the gay community protests, you all act like they are starting it and trying to initiate some kind of plan to force their lifestyle on you. It's completely ridiculous. You say "but they are not going to give up the principle that the LDS church believes in"... and no one is asking them to. The LDS church will always be allowed to marry only those couples that they feel are worthy in the temple. They will always be able to refuse membership to anyone they choose. They will always be able to teach their members that homosexuality is a sin. No one is protesting any of that. What is being protested is the treatment of the gay community. Now that the church has stepped into the political arena (and they did when they asked people to donate to a political cause) and started trying to force their views on others rather than preaching to their followers, they absolutely opened themselves up to these protests. The gay community is not trying to force their lifestyle on you. They want to be able to live their life in the same manner that you are allowed to live yours. That is all. They want the ability to live as they choose which is not the same thing as forcing their lifestyle on you. You can believe whatever you chose to believe. It is incredible to me that some people can't see the difference between believing something and trying to force the rest of society to follow their beliefs. Gay people wanting to marry is not them trying to force anything on you... it is about THEM wanting to marry the person that they love. It is between the two people who want to get married and does not affect you. You on the other hand want to stop people from getting married because you think it is immoral and wrong. You are affecting them. Really, do you people not see the difference? No of course not, fine, go ahead and just keep whining about how you are somehow being treated unfairly by the gay community.

You are wrong on several counts: @Lance T. - First of all, it is not against the law for any couple, even a gay couple, to kiss in public on a popular, much-trafficked thoroughfare even if it is church property.

Second, marriage is, according to the U.S. Supreme Court, "one of the basic civil rights of man, fundamental to our very existence and survival" (Loving v Virginia, 1967).

And third, gay couples are denied rights, and plenty of them: 1,138 rights, responsibilities and protections to be exact. These rights were reported by government itself in 2004. If you don't believe me, you can read them all for yourself here: www.equalitymatters.org

Tsk @Hardtaill - Dear one, the LDS is being targeted because it is especially rancorous and deluded, yet politically and financially able. One nut on the street we step around. Many nuts who are wickedly organized we defend ourselves and our rights against.

Equal? @Stoic One - Once again ill state I am not religious at all. That being said how is someone acting and quoting from their beliefs (scripture) insane, but those wanting their point of view or beliefs respected sane?

There is a difference @Mykle A. - between stating your point of view that you derive from your religious beliefs rather than just throwing Bible verses out there as if everyone should know that is Gods will.

That's why they are throwing out scripture @CharlieMerfy - so you can read Heavenly Father's will for yourself. Then you don't have to know, it's there in print.

@CharlieMerfy - Stoic One and CharlieMerty,

Why is it that the Liberal Pukes of society cannot
fathom the Bible?

What is it about the word "NO" that you do
not understand?


'Tail.

@Hardtaill - Why can't you understand that the bible and Christianity are both lies?

@R D. - Maybe to you, but not to others.

Why must you challenge all the believers. They have a right to believe just as you have the right not to.

@Brook M. - These people are using the bible and Christianity to limit other people's rights. They are making these judgments from false pretenses. I don't care if you wish to believe in the bible or Christianity, I'm not trying to stop you from doing that, but Christians need to stop trying to take away other people's rights.

R.D. you have got to be kidding me @R D. - Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens.... Let it simply be asked, where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation deserts the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education... reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
George Washington
Farewell Address
by Chris Stewart and entitled, "The Great and Terrible". "...Now listen to me, people, for this is the key – evil can be twisted into virtue if you phrase it just right. Any vice is acceptable if you cloak it as an issue of freedom. Any immorality is worth fighting for if you tell them they are fighting for choice, if you wrap it in the mantle of privacy and freedom. So take their moral agency and turn it on them. But be patient…be patient…it takes time to turn the truth upside down..."

You have got to be kidding me. What rights are being taken away by christianity and the bible?

@Utaitaiyo - Sorry if you weren't able to marry the one you love because she didn't love you and married someone else, but if two consenting adults who love each other want to get married, I don't see how that is anyone's business except theirs. Christianity and the bible are what people are using as a reason not to allow this.

I was simply @R D. - stating that they make it sound like it is their right to marry anyone they want. Obviously the other person has to consent.

If they want to get married, no one is stopping them. All they have to do is find someone of the opposite sex and get married to them.

It is my business, because that behavior is not restricted to just "between them". They will act it out in public (as we have already seen and knew would happen) and try to push the acceptance of their lifestyle onto all those around them so they can be "part of the in-group". The problem is, they are making choices deliberately leading them out of the "in-group".

While some people might be using Christianity and the bible, others might be using the Koran or Torah, while others still are using the words of Buddha or Confucious, and others are just using common sense. It doesn't matter what they are using, it is not acceptable behavior to the majority of people still--or it would be accepted as the gays want it to be.

@Utaitaiyo - They are being stopped from marrying the one they love. I am able to marry the one I love, why not allow them the same right?

@R D. -

Why? @Stoic One - Give a reason why, don't just say they are "not worthy of any public consideration." That is not a very smart way to argue.

Anyone who judges @Stoic One - someone who uses scriptures as clearly insane and not worthy of any public consideration, is a humongous git and can't see past the nose on their own face.

konakula29er @konakula29er - Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens.... Let it simply be asked, where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation deserts the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education... reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
George Washington
Farewell Address

I agree 100%. Right is right and wrong is wrong. The gay comunity does not want to change the church because the believe it is true, and want to join. They want to change it because they want to push their lifestyle on everyone. They have no tolarance for anyone but those who agree with them.
The church did not break the law here the gay couple that waw drunk, and molesting each other broke the law. Yet for some reason they gays can do no wrong. In their eyes it is never their fault they are so picked on.
I have had debates with people on here about "GAY RIGHTS" and it always ends up the same way. I Prove to them there are no such things as gay rights. The constitution does not provide rights for being GAY. It provides rights for being a human. After I have proven them wrong a common thing happens. They will say "maybe we should get rid of the constitution." What the gay community wants is not for the benefit of society. It is for their own selfish desires.
I am now to the point of the hell with gays and anything they want. I used to not have a big problem with domestic partnerships. I am now to the point that I will treat them like a person but I will not tolerate anything homosexual. I will tell them it is wrong, sick, unnatural, unhealthy, and deviant. I will not support it in any way.
Before it was live and let live. Now I am so sick of hearing about them. They will not leave anyone alone. They are constantly pushing their life on others. To hell with them and what they want. I will vote against them on everything.
Now, I will still treat them like a human. But I will at the very least treat them with the same respect they treat me with.

@Lance T. - Kona your last few paragraphs hit it exactly. As the gays push, those being pushed will start pushing back.

As a blacksmith strengthens steel with constant pounding and hammering, so will the righteous be strengthened through the constant attacks.

Homosexuality is a sin, but it was acceptable if it was kept confined to behind closed doors. I supported civil unions to help the community deal with rights issues. I do not support gay marriage because it brings to the table acceptance of the lifestyle, which I do not accept.

With the constant in-your-face actions by the gay community and the defense of the disrepsect, I find myself moving from anything that will justify the lifestyle, including civil unions.

In other words, they have hammered me enough and I have been strengthened and will now fight against it.

Brook m @Brook M. - My name is Lance T :)

It seems like the gays support breaking the law. I mean after all that is what the gay couple did.
If these gay groups really think they are good for society they are not showing it by supporting a gay couple who broke the law. If anything they should condemn the inappropriate actions of the gay couple, not condone them. The choice of these gay groups to support the illegal actions of this couple goes to show that gays do not support society. The gays just want what they want, with complete disregard to others.
I for one do not support their cause. I do not think they have gone about their cause in an appropriate way. Once again I say the Hell with them.

George Washington quotes huh? Heres a few from some other founding fathers... @konakula29er - For those of you who don't bother to actually look into such things, I would like to point out that MANY of our founding fathers were NOT religious men at all. Below are just a few quotes. You may recognize a couple of the names in there. ;) It is a myth that our country was founded on Christianity people. It's an out right lie by people who wish that it were the case. But don't just believe me. Why don't you look up some unbiased information for yourself some time.

"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." - John Adams

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." - Thomas Jefferson

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison

"My parents had given me betimes religious impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself." - Benjamin Franklin

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson

"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?" - John Adams

JJ @JJ_09 - That is fantastic, but they all still signed the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution. Which claims that our Rights are GOD GIVEN. So what is your point? That they have a problem with the clergy, with man made church, with what?

jj @JJ_09 - Furthermore your quotes do not refute the idea that I have posted. The quotes that I have posted speak of morality and religion, in general, being indispensable. Never does it name a religion. None of your quotes really say that morality is wrong or dispensable.
Do you honestly think your refined education can think of a better way to teach national modality, and practical functionality in a complex social environment? I don't. Anything you believe can be your opiate, so what are we left to do?

Did I say anything about morality? @Lance T. - Your quote was about morality and religion, yes. What's your point? I was talking about the religion part. You see, not everyone believes that morality and religion are tied together and good old George seemed to be tying them together. Of course none of my quotes say that morality is wrong… I can't imagine what your point is here. I have very strong morals, hence the reason I am speaking up about what I believe is right.

Perhaps you do not understand what moral means:

Moral
of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.

For you, right and wrong is determined by a book, for me it is determined by reason and common sense.

I strongly believe that it is wrong to discriminate against people based on their sexual orientation.

The reason that I brought Christianity into this was not actually based specifically off of your post. It was simply that I am sick of hearing that we are a Christian nation. Our laws should not be governed by the bible or book of mormon as most people on this forum seem to believe. Worship as you will but remember that this country was founded on the freedom of religion and that different religions have different sets of “morals”. Why as one of many religions in this country do you believe that YOUR religious ideology should be forced on everyone else?

Perhaps more relevant to your post would have been a quote from Thomas Jeffereson:

"The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg . . . . Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error."

Give it a rest KSL! @Ang Pinakamakapangyarihan - This isn't even news and you have given it more attention than even the farce for socialized medicine barak hussein is trying to shove down our throats. All this is about is a group of people who have taken sexual perversion to such a level that they will stop at nothing to escape the intolerable guilt and regret that must accompany such degrading and demeaning behavior. They desparately and wrongly hope that if only society would publicly condone their private perverted escapades they might find temporary releif. It ain't that simple and its time for ksl to move on to something newsworthy.

That's the problem... @Jason T. - the media in this country promotes this sort of perversion by over reporting it. KSL already ran this article yesterday. It is now put up this morning again as though it is a new headline. Seems KSL is going to milk it for all its worth. They know its a hot topic issue in Utah and very controversial. The continued reporting only emboldens the gay community to misbehave even more, to be louder, to be more offensive. Shame on KSL.
Another thing, the guy organizing this "kiss-in" may be asking participants to keep it PG or G rated - it would be interesting to hear his opinion on what makes a G rated kiss and what makes a PG rated kiss -, however in my opinion two men kissing one another or two women kissing one another is R rated at least. Funny how in a movie theater movies that depict this sort of behavior are PG-13 or R. However, on our streets, in our cities, I guess those kind of standards don't apply and this deviant behavior is not only tolerated but pushed upon our youth, our children.

The problem with the new media is we the people @konakula29er - We seem to be all about reallity shows and if thats what we want to see thats what they will give us. It's just another ploy to distract us from the real issues at hand

maybe it's time to clean our own house @Jason T. - We can start with the media and move on to the local and state governments and then really have a house cleaning in the senate and congrass.

@Jason T. - KSL will quite publishing these stories if we the readers quit making comments on this board. KSL is simply interested in driving traffic to the web site to make money. They are not in business to provide public service news reporting. When the editors at KSL see a large number of posts to a specific article they will find ways to keep that "advertising" momentum going.
If we all go silent and quit reading and posting to this "news" story they will stop publishing it.

I disagree @K S. - because there are plenty of articles that get no comments on them--you know the ones about someone saving another person's life, etc., but those articles seem to keep appearing...

A "G" and "PG" kiss-in @news435reader - to protest the halting of "R' activity that required police involvement.

Does this qualify as trying to "call evil good and good evil"....?

@Greenly - I had a similar thought. Does no one see the irony in the call to stage G and PG protests when had "the couple" kept their original behavior at that level, this incident would never have occurred? I think the gay community knows what exactly how to spin their actions. Engage in inappropriate public behavior to cause a scene, then claim victim status, and finally stage nationwide protests asking people to now be polite and respectful so as not to sway public opinion against them.

Mr. Badash said: @Legal Eagle - "I know so many same-sex couples who live in different parts of the country who do feel a major concern, and feel very, very intimidated," he said.
I think if Mr. Badash would reprt the whole story, those couples would have their fears put to rest. Why is their no mention of the public intoxication and belligerency when asked to leave private property? This couple was NOT arrested for kissing in public.

You know @Corry C. - I saw an article posted about this on the Associated Press, and it didn't ever mention that they were behaving lewdly or that they were drinking beforehand nor did it really mention their disregard for authority, actually pushing the security to call the men in blue (I have read the actual police report too...).

They were definitely not arrested for kissing in public.

@Chris N. - Really? You can't think of a better way to handle the situation than execution? You are no better than the gay extremists.

@Chris N. - Grow up. When you want to have an adult discussion, I'll be happy to talk.

@Chris N. - Yes grow up. You attack me rather than address the real issue? You engage is extreme hyperbole wholly unrelated to the topic at hand.

If you had a clue, you would see that I'm far from calling evil good. But I also don't believe crude, summary execution is the answer. For those that choose to engage their brain, there is a better answer.

@Chris N. - Yes I believe in punishment for sin. What I don't believe is that you or I or or anyone else on this earth has the power or authority to punish anyone else for sin.

@Chris N. - Again with the hyperbole? Are you really that dense?

This is what the protest if for... @news435reader - To highlight your silly homophobia.

I'm not homophobic @bellsonhershoes - I have many gay friends. These men were arrested for trespassing, ot kissing. They were drunk, lewd, profain, groping and making-out. I don't want to see that no matter who or what sex.

Jules - read the police report @Jules Best - It doesn't mention lewdness, profanity, making out, or drunkeness (only that they had alcohol on their breath - BIG difference.) They were asked to leave simply for kissing.

And the police report @Carl L. - also said that when asked if the security guards tackled them, they said yes the first time and then no the second--completely discounting anything they said at all. Anyone drunk enough to not really know what happened deserves to have their side of the story thrown out.

BIG difference on proper accounting for the events that happened when one is sober and the other is drunk.

Big time ditto there Dan @Dan - If KSL didn't feel the desperate need to publish every little story about this subject, multiple times (they covered this a few days ago) this fake outrage would die.

you overestimate KSL's reach. @Zablde - .

Those stories were by the AP @Zablde - but this story has a byline (ksl writer?). And - finally - this story included the statement by the LDS Church that says this was much more than a peck on the cheek and that anyone behaving this way would be asked to stop.

For that reason, I'm glad ksl put it up - maybe some other news agencies will pick it up and in the spirit of truth (I know it's a reach here...) also publish those statements by the Church.

UTAH QUIT BEING JR. HIGH KIDS @Dan - We Are all adults here.
It's not the end of the world when two of the same sex kiss.
If they are gonna aresst same sex couples for that, they better aresst different sex couples for the same thing.
ABOSOLUTLY NO PROBLEM BEING GAY!!!!!!
DON'T TELL ME "GOD" HAS A PROBLEM WITH GAY'S WHEN HE "CREATED" THEM!
NO ONE SPEAKS FOR GOD!!

Quit your complaining over small stuff and focus on real problems.

UGLY SUB HUMAN SCUM

WHAT @Deevee - GOD did not create the people gay, they choose that lifestyle. I suppose the bible is all wrong too when god say's these are my word's.

@schmuck311 - Do you honestly think that these people want to be hated as much as they are?

THIS IS JUST AS BAD AS RASICISM!!!!! This is one of the many reasons we are the lowest animal.

I suppose my cousin chose to be gay at the young age he was?? yup you are soo right man! No gay gene at all. Dean Hamer is wrong about the gay gene. Sorry i am so dumb! I'll belive a book over a geneticist.

Keep religion out of this please. It has no place at all here.

@Deevee - Race? Haven't you seen how much these guys hate Mexicans and blacks? There is no surprise here..

And telling them to keep religion out of things that doesn't / shouldn't involve it is like telling Rosie O'Donnell to keep her hands out of a box of doughnuts. It's simply not going to happen.

@XBleed - HAHAHA!!!!
No i am sorry. I haven't seen how much gay's hate mexicans and blacks. PLEASE inform me..
I know more gay people of a different race than white.
So i dunno what you are trying to prove.

@Deevee - I'm not talking about the "gays"..

@XBleed - Wait i must of read your comment wrong hahaha. My bad

Deevee @Deevee - What is Rasicism?

Bajunda @Bajunda - Real mature!

Rasicism @Deevee - is not a word. I think you meant racism. You can't expect people to take you seriously when you make up your own words.

Deevee you are wrong on @Deevee - this matter, it is a religious matter to many and to ignore that is to ingore reality. If you want to argue this on civil rights plane that is an entirely different matter. But through a religous lens it is inappropriate and unacceptable.

@Solitary - geneticist > KSL Posters & Religion

@Solitary - "a religious matter to many"

Key word there is "many", not ALL! The religious need to understand that not everyone thinks and acts like they do. What, we're HOW many years into humanity and they still don't understand that people have a mind of their own, and can think and act for themselves?

Relgion has no place to tell other people that they are wrong. Absolutely no place. Period. Especially if it's something that doesn't involve them directly. Constantly sticking their turned up noses in places they don't belong. Every once in a while, they'll stick them in a pile of dog crap, and it gets all over their faces. That's exactly what's happening here.

Isn't it about time you mind your own business? I have better things to do than go to your church and protest against your beliefs.. Why don't you follow that same example? Or better yet, why don't you follow the example of "Christ" as Christians are supposed to? Oh wait, that's another one of those, "That's like telling Rosie O'Donnell to stop visiting Chuck-o-Rama" things..

Ditto @XBleed - You are letting a book tell you how to feel and act.

@Deevee - You are letting a geneticist tell YOU how to feel and act.

@XBleed - The moral decay currently being suffered in this country is a direct and proximate result of the "if it doesn't affect you, let it be" mentality. The reality is that aren't any truly "personal" decisions. Virtually every decision you make will affect someone other than you. We disagree on the effects of homosexuality, and other behaviors, on our society, and that is fine. But don't tell me I don't get to express my opinion, religious or not, on a particular subject.

Who are you to say I'm not following Christ's example and standing up for what is right, moral and just. Christ didn't make excuses for those who were sinning, nor did he tolerate it. Just what exactly do you believe Christ would do differently?

@Legal Eagle - The moral decay currently being suffered in this country is a direct and proximate result of RELIGION. Hell, not even "currently". Since the beginning of time, and the misinterpretation of Zodiac signs that created Christianity.

The "if it doesn't affect you, let it be" mentality only exists because of religious bigots not minding their own business.

I don't believe "Christ" would do anything, since I don't necessarily believe that he exists now, or ever did. However, the reputation that people want him to have is of a loving and accepting being. He is forgiving of "sins", right? That's hardly the image that comes across on this site.

Instead, it's just a bunch of biased opinions coming from a bunch of ignorant bigots. Name calling, slandering, hate, and no real valid points ("But god hates gays!!!").. And that's what I'm supposed to take seriously? That's the opinions that some of you guys want to express?

These arguments are a joke, and I'm meaning from both sides. The gays, in my opinion, are acting childish with some of their comments and actions.. Just as much as the religious are. It's stupid, live and let live.. I don't understand this fascination with other peoples lives that brings out the worst in people, but it really is disgusting to see it happen day after day after day.

During His lifetime our Savior @XBleed - Threw the moneychangers out of the temple, He told the alduteress to "Go and sin no more," He cured the lame and healed the blind. He loved the sinner, always, but didn't love the sin.

Christianity stems from Jesus Christ, the Savior, it has nothing to do with the zodiac. I have nothing against gays, I have many gay friends, who I love. I have never heard any of our leaders or our Prophet, Thomas S. Monson say that "Heavenly Father hates Gays." Indeed we're taught to love everyone.

At the same time, there shouldn't be a need to have the gay lifestyle pushed in our faces, we shouldn't have to tolerate gays being married. I agree with a civil union, but marrigae is between a man and a womon and is sanctified by our Heavenly Father. There is much more hate coming from the gays than I have ever heard coming from the Leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Actually, Jules... @Jules Best - Marriage is first and foremost a civil institution. Before a couple can get married in any church, they must first procure a state-issued marriage license for which they pay a civic fee. If and when they do stand up before their pastor or minister or priest or what have you, the clergy seals the deal with this: "By the power vested in me BY THE STATE OF UTAH..."

HALF OF ALL MARRIED COUPLES ARE LEGALLY MARRIED WITHOUT ANY BLESSING OR SANCTION FROM THE CHURCH. If you say "I do" at city hall, you are still fully married, no Heavenly Father required.

You're right @XBleed - it is based on religion--the religion that teaches that all religion is bad. Believe it or not, it has a doctrine and following it could categorize you as a follower of a specific dogma teaching men to disbelieve in what others believe in. The "religious" aspects of the activities and course of thought are similar, if opposite in direction.

Your lack of knowledge on both the beginning of Christianity and the misunderstanding of how there is no such thing as "private" does not excuse your ignorance.

The problem is you forget that gods law is supreme @XBleed - and those who break the law shall be punish not accepted and applauded.

@Chris N. - Okay. Two things.

1. There's a reason why the laws of the land aren't "Gods law". I can't stress it enough, not everyone believes in god. Not everyone believes in YOUR god, and not everyone believes that "Gods law" is "supreme". This is my point. People are different from you are. Very different. And you, yourself, are not perfect.

2. Wouldn't the punishment and non-acceptance be up to "God" himself, and not you? Some ordinary, every day human being?

@XBleed - ...has no place? ...doesn't involve them directly?...sticking their turned up noses in places they don't belong? Are you talking about the majority of the citizens here in Utah, or the gays/lesbians that are protesting drunk on their private property? If the small minority of citizens in this country that choose to live a homosexual/lesbian life didn't insist on pushing their lifestyle on the silent majority, by way of public display, marches, parades, gay lagoon days, gay this day or that day, gay pride shirts, buttons, bandanas, events, rallies, etc. etc. etc., you guys wouldn't feel like such victims. The fact and reality is, that unless the gays/lesbians feel like victims, they don't feel like they're being treated fairly. Digest that for a moment, and you'll see that it's true. Just live your life and quit worrying if you're being treated exactly as fair as everyone else.

@cartown - To be honest, I think both parties are being ridiculous. I think topics like this really shouldn't exist because I see no reason why humans can't live among other humans without conflict. Different views and opinions? Shouldn't matter, keep it to yourself and accept others because they're human like you are.

Also, I actually agree with you. I strongly feel that if the gays want to be accepted and treated like everyone else, why do they make special occasions just for themselves? We don't throw straight pride parades, we don't have "Straight Night" at clubs or anything.. It kind of falls into the same category as if there were a "WET (white entertainment television)" network, or a Caucasian College Fund, it would be racist..

you're right!!! @XBleed - Gays always arguing that they want the right to marry are just silly! Everyone has the same rights in this country. Anyone can get married any day of the week they choose. What gays want is a special category all for themselves. Special rights and all new laws just for their category or preference. That can never happen without chaos following. Next, the category who want to marry their pet will stage kiss-ins with their pets all over the country. Then will come the category who want to marry their SUV, boat, plane or their 6,000 sq. ft. home with a pool. There is no end. The answer needs to be a firm "NO"! Marriage is from the beginning between one man and one woman, period, the end.

Wow you are smart! @Dolsen - You are so right... marrying an SUV or boat is EXACTLY the same a marrying a human being that you love and care for more than anything else in the world. Boy, you sure nailed it! Why didn't I ever think about the fact that denying someone the ability to marry THE PERSON that they love, THE PERSON that they want to spend the rest of their lives with, THE PERSON that completes them, is really just gay people whining about wanting special rights. You are a supra genius!!!

You want to talk “pushing their lifestyle”? @cartown - You are talking about homosexuals as if they should not have rights because they are a minority. You say “If the small minority of citizens in this country that choose to live a homosexual/lesbian life didn't insist on pushing their lifestyle on the silent majority…” WAIT HOLD ON… hasn’t anyone informed you that LDS members are a small minority of citizens in this country??? Perhaps living in Utah you have missed this fact. So you would then have no problem with your rights being taken away? Your voice should not be heard? Why don’t you quit whining you minority! Sooooo… do you really believe that your religion doesn’t try to push itself on the entire world (no, not your religion. You are a minority so that would be wrong)?

Your comments are utter gibberish. Did you think this through at all? Every Mormon person on this thread who spouts off about the gays getting in their faces needs to take a hard look in the mirror.

Can I ask you something? Did you go on a mission? Did you knock on people’s doors and attempt to convert them to your religion? When was the last time that a gay man knocked on your door and tried to convince you to be gay???

Do missionaries wear name tags so that everyone knows who and what they are? Is that not a public display? There is 1 gay day at lagoon a year… how may stake lagoon days are there again? Hmmm… lets see, there’s one every single day except Sunday and Monday (wouldn’t want to interrupt family home evening). Sooooo, no minority should be able to have their own day at Lagoon? Maybe they should just change it to Mormon land and check your temple recommend at the gate. I’m sure you would feel much more comfortable that way.

I have news for you. The gay population in the US is around 8.8 million. The Mormon population in the US is about 6 million. So gay people should not be able to express themselves as they chose? They shouldn’t be allowed to have gay events? They should not let people know that they are gay? Hmmmm… perhaps since the Mormon religion is a smaller minority they should quit knocking on my door!

Does the LDS church have people who handle publicity… people who handle marketing… (I’ll answer this one for you. Yes, they do)? Have ya ever seen the commercials on the tv that end with a “this message brought to you by the Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints”? So when they try to market themselves to the majority of the population you think that is perfectly acceptable? Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the majority in the US doesn’t agree with everything the LDS church stands for and that they may feel like the LDS people are trying to force their lifestyles on others? You are a hypocrite.

“Digest that for a moment, and you'll see that it's true.” ;) Just live your life and quit worrying if gay people have a gay day at lagoon or a Pride Parade.

One more thing… Do you really know what it is like to have the majority tell you that you can’t have the same rights as everyone else? Do you really know what it’s like to have the majority look down on you as a lesser citizen? Do you think that Joseph Smith should not have spoken out… should not have tried everything he could to preserve his freedoms of religion and way of life? Perhaps he should have just stopped being Mormon so as not to rock the boat? Maybe when you have a bunch of idiots like yourself taking away YOUR freedoms, treating YOU like a leper, you will think “Hmmm… perhaps I should fight back”. Maybe that gay couple should have gotten kicked off of church property, I don’t know, but when you repress people… when you back them into a corner… they will come out fighting. And good for them!

wow you are an idiot! @JJ_09 - nothing you said has anything to do with the issue. Their are no rights for being gay. Let me say it again THEIR ARE NO RIGHTS FOR BEING GAY. Sexual preferance does not get you any rights. You are a moron!!!!!

sorry @Lance T. - I ment There are no rights

Pot calling kettle @Lance T. - Dearie, we wouldn't suggest you call other people idiots and morons when you can say "THEIR are no rights..."

And by the way, illiterate screamer, honey, no one is saying that you purchase rights by being gay. We are saying we have the same rights as all Americans. Sorry you have trouble understanding this, but given your - uh - special intellectual status we understand.

Excelent point about Americans rights! @Moron-ee - I think you are right on with your comment on Gay rights (thank you voice of reason)... but I never like it when forums become spelling and grammar wars. Your knowledge of spelling and grammar are not a measure of intellect nor is your education... that being said, it really speaks to someones intelligence when the only response they can muster is name calling. ;)

I think that someone is a little testy! @Lance T. - OK, you really seem like you want to argue this whole rights thing. First of all I think that it is pretty obvious that when people are asking for equal rights, they are not asking for "special" rights. You are correct, there are no rights for being gay, but we all have rights as Americans and Utah's and everyone should be treated equally. You Lance, have the right to marry any American citizen you want ***except*** for people of the same gender right? See that except up there? It's kinda important.

Now sure, you can't marry people who are too young to make their own decisions (totally different than excluding gay people) and you can't marry people who are too close of a relation (again here, this has to do with inbreeding and is a totally different kinda thing.)

So, really the only segment of our population that is excluded just because ya don't think it's "moral" are the homosexuals. Now, how then is it a special right to expect to be able to marry the person you love? Everyone else can.

In an earlier post you said that Marriage is not a right, correct?

Great, now let me ask you one question... Did you vote for the Utah Constitutional Amendment 3???

I would like to point you to the official Utah government web site for a moment. Below you will find a link to Article 01 -- Declaration of Rights. -In case you missed it, I said Declaration of ****RIGHTS****:

http://le.utah.gov/~code/const/00I01.htm

Now, head on down to Article 1, Section 29... You there yet? Ok, what does that say again... oh yeah Marriage.

This is where ya all amended our Constitution to define marriage as being between a man and a women. Ok, soooooooo... If ya all can modify our ***Declaration of Rights*** to make sure that only certain people have a RIGHT to be married don't ya think that, by definition of our constitution, Marriage is considered a right? Naw, that's just silly, the declaration of rights has nothin to do with rights.

You voted an amendment into our constitution to DENY people specific rights... I'm sorry but you can't call it anything else. You can blab about protection of marriage all you want but we all know what it really is, discrimination. You voted to take away peoples rights and then try to tell them that Marriage isn't even a right. Maybe you shouldn't go around calling people morons when you are the one who amended the Declaration of Rights to include marriage.

Yay for Lance... the supra genius. ;)

Lance, have you ever heard of... @Lance T. - ...CIVIL rights? How about HUMAN rights? No? I didn't think so.

Gays and lesbians are not asking for rights because they are gay. They are asking for basic civil and human rights granted to all citizens. Black people don't deserve equal rights because they are black. They deserve equal rights because they are people. Gay people are people too, whether you like them or not. My bet is that we wouldn't care much for you either, but we don't seek to strip you of your basic right to free speech, which you are so vehemently exercising here.

PS: "Their" should be spelled "there." "Preferance?" Try "preference." You might try a dictionary before you start calling other people morons.

If it is a religious matter @Solitary - than why are you not attacking unmarried hetero couples who live together? They can receive many of the same benefits as a married couple and yet it is still considered a sin. What about the couples who date people from other religions isn't that considered wrong? I can think of many things that are perfectly legal and accepted in our society that is a sin in the eyes of Christianity so why are you picking and choosing which ones to take a stand on?

Unmarried hetero couples @CharlieMerfy - Aren't demanding marriage and pushing their choice into our faces. The unmarried couples I know are happy with their lives and don't want to be married. They don't have to grope and make-out in public. If they wanted to be married, they would be married. Again, you love the person, not the sin.

@CharlieMerfy - If it were up to me, you can bet marriage would be a pre-requisite to welfare.

doesn't make sense... @Deevee - Your same argument could be used for pedophiles and other sexual perversions. In my opinion it's just another temptation. Some temptations are more difficult for some people. What one person would find hard to control might be easier for another.
We aren't sent here to be animals. We need to be in control of our bodies.

READ MPetrie post!!! @emsk - "Yes.. God created them....
but something went wrong in the process because what's located between your legs is the sign of what gender you are and thus results in who you should be attracted to. If that's not the case then something went wrong upstairs (or downstair, depending if there is a physical deformity). God doesn't create disfigured or deformed babies... an imperfect, and sometimes cruel, nature does that and God lets it run its course. That's the thing we call life. But if someone is finding themselves attracted to the same sex... it's not because God created them that way. And you're right... no one speaks for God... God speaks for God and what God said is written in the Bible on the matter. It is written that homosexual behavior is immoral. Having the urges or feelings of same sex attraction may come naturally due to some flaw within the brain... that's not immoral. It how you respond to it that makes immorality possible.

Example.. some people suffer from a psycho-sexual disorder that simply can't be cured.... only controlled. Someone may find themselves strangely attracted to small children and have the desire to act on it. Acting on those urges would be considered wrong... but their feelings seem to come naturally.

While I'll never understand what it's like to have those urges or feelings. But being a believer in Christian scripture, I cannot accept this behavior as "right" or "normal". Men leaving the natural use of the woman and men with men working that which is "unseemly" and burned in their lust toward one another. It's harsh but that's what it says. Their urges may come naturally and that's unfortunate. We can accept these people as they are... people. But that doesn't mean we have to be accepting of their actions in response to those urges."

Now don't compare the actions of a gay person to a pedophile. WAY differen't buddy

Compare @Deevee - Compare any temptation. Pedophiles, thieves, gays, murderers, adulterers. None are right. All can become a temptation and if not controlled an addiction.

@Jacob E. - Being gay isn't killing anyone or hurting anyone. sorry :(

hahahahaha @Chris N. - ok, so let me get this strait. People are "pissed about this movement" because you know a deadbeat dad who happens to be gay? Ya know what? I know a bunch of strait guys who have left their wives and don't pay child support. What does a guy not having a job and supporting his kids have ANYTHING to do with his sexuality. hahaha Oh man, that is really funny stuff. Seriously Chris, haha, thanks for giving me a laugh.

BTW - I know someone named Chris... that eats babies! So this is why everyone is so pissed about the pro chris movement. hahahahaha

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Yeah, doesn't make sense... Try thinking for a change. @emsk - Ok, let me reason through this with you... do you understand the difference between a grown man or women who is capable of making their own choices and... a child? Cause there is a difference. Now, do you see the difference between a couple who love each other and a man who forces himself on a woman or child?

--are you with me so far causes I know I'm moving fast here. I can slow down if you need me to.

Ok, sooooo when two consenting adults (oops, I better repeat this part cause I know you're slow... that is, two people who are of age and who have the mental capacity to make their own choices and who have chosen to be with each other) - so when two consenting adults love each other and want to make a life long commitment to each other... they are raping children? Yup you are right. How didn't I see the similarities.

Ummmm... I don't think you are ready to have your own opinion. Maybe you should attempt to reason through something first. See, YOUR belief is that we were "sent here"... that is not everyone's belief. I don't really care what you think is perverted and what you think is not. No one is asking you to be gay here.

Gosh @Deevee - I think the murderers, adulterers, drunks, addicts, molesters, and other people with tendencies to do things we abhor would also have been created that way and would then be deserving of our respect and good intentions. Haven't you heard that drunks tend to run in the family? They even think there's a gene for that one...

How can you prevent yourself from falling into the same trap as dad or mom then when the gene is there? By choosing not to drink to start with. Hmmm...same logic applied to gays = ?

What book are you talking about anyway? If you will believe a book over a geneticist, then what about a book written by a geneticist? After all, who would be more qualified to write the book than a specialist in that field?

Logic anyone?

Deevee @Deevee - Humans "are the lowest animal?" What do you mean by that?

Of all the animals on the earth humans are the only ones that CHOSE to be gay. Homosexuality is not natural. Ducks aren't gay, dogs aren't gay, birds aren't gay. If they were, it would be a matter of time before there would be no ducks, dogs, or birds left.

When all is said and done, the sperm of a male and the egg of a female are required to procreate. Man and woman. Not man and man, not woman and woman.

Back to the story, I would be just as disgusted seeing two heterosexuals make out and grope on Temple Square as two homosexuals. It is private property and they were being belligerent.

Uh...yeah... @schmuck311 - The Bible is wrong.

@bellsonhershoes - geneticist > KSL Posters

That's what they used to say about the @bellsonhershoes - anti smoking campaign. who's laughing now?

Bible @bellsonhershoes - With as many times as the bible has been translated and rewritten by immoral self-righteous kings, wouldn't it be common sense to read it with a grain of salt just the same as any other book? Can't we think for ourselves and form our own opinions using logic and reason?

Yes. @renton - and in the same breath, I would ask, can't we ask God ourselves if these things are true or not and receive an answer for ourselves with our ability to form our own opinions using the logic that if it works for others it might work for us too, even if that means defying conventional reason?

They did @schmuck311 - choose that lifestyle. I believe that some, not all, of gay people have gay tendencies and urges, but I also believe that we have been commanded to put off the natural man and discipline ourselves. The urge to be gay is the same as the urge to drink alcohol to excess or to do drugs. People who struggle with those problems will tell you that the urge is strong and they feel it has been with them all along. Those who are gay are commanded to fight that urge like you would fight an addiction. Just because the urge is there, doesn't make it okay to indulge it. We each have personal problems to refine us through the struggle. Hollywood and liberals in general have poured it on to make society think that giving in to our urges is the American way. It's the American downfall and that fall will be huge until we willingly humble ourselves to follow the commandments and walk in his way. I know that sounds churchy, but it's that basic and it's that real. Never give in to the urges, never surrender or the price will be great!

listen @Dolsen - Being gay is nothing like having a drug addiction. Plain and simply, you don't know what you are talking about. I have NEVER heard a single addict say that from the time they were born they wanted to use drugs or abuse alcohol. That they had to resist the urge to even start because they were just born with these natural urges. You are flat out wrong. People may have a predisposition to addiction. If they do start drinking it is easier for you to become an alcoholic... but that is not what you are trying say. Quite frankly, you should just not speak up on subjects that you nothing about.

Lifestyle @schmuck311 - I hate to differ with you,I thought that way also, but since I have changed my mind. I came out myself. It is something that I have struggled with for years. I just did not sit down one day and decide to be gay. I don't want to be this way, and I have fought these feelings. I have been married for 18 years. I have tried loving my wife, but I just see her as a friend. I have been in love with men since I was a teenager, but I did not understand it then. I did not choose this.

Your choice @Tustin Man - While I imagine that it was a struggle for you, you have clearly thrown in the towel. I doubt you sat down one day and decided to be gay, but you did make the choice in the end.

We all have our struggles, but the point is not giving into them simply because we want to stop fighting the feelings.

Tell me, in all those years with your wife, how much did you actually 'serve' her? I am not talking about buying her nice things or being home with her. I am talking about going out and making things for her with your hands, trying to be as romantic as you can, stopping on the way home from work to buy flowers. How much attention did you focus on her? I don't know how you would have much time to do much else if you had a picture of her on your desk and all you thought about was what she needed and how you can fulfill that need. Instead, you have turned around and said, "I don't care about her. It's my turn to get what I really want." Granted she might not have 'served' you enough for you to get truly attached.

I have found that when I am focused, truly focused, on my wife and what she needs, any other problem, temptation, concern or other vice I have disappears, and I find it exciting, challenging and highly rewarding to try to meet her needs and wants with my entire ability to do so. When I think of my children, I feel that way too, but I have to say I think much higher of my wife than my children--while they are an appendage to her, they are not her. Also, I found my wife responds in turn when I do things for her by doing things for me.

Answer to Your Choice @Utaitaiyo - You certainly have no idea about my past do you Utaitaiyo. I did all that for my wife. I had my family picture at my desk. I did all my church work. I did a lot with my family and my wife. We spent a lot of time being with each and romantic. Did you ever have to deal with homosexual feelings? Until you have to deal with this issue you will never know. There are thousands of us in the church that have to deal with this. We are not asking for the church to accept homosexuality, but just accept us as human beings. I should have never married in the first place, but I was told that getting married would "cure" me of having homosexual feelings. I am still waiting for it to happen.

Deeve @schmuck311 - The point of this life is to overcome weakness. Whatever weakness we can not overcome, we petition to the Lord to have mercy on us.

God loves sinners. If this was not so he would not have sent his son to atone for our sins, to take them upon himself for us if we believe in him and his sacrifice and repent of them.

Yes, God loves sinners, this never has nor will it ever justify a sin.

@Deevee - Yes we are all adults here. Perhaps you need to remind the gay protestors of that too.

A same sex kiss is not the end of the world, but we can disagree about whether it is a symptom of a cancer that is killing us.

Yet again, we see another simpleton who only see's what they want to see. The citation was for trespassing, not for kissing. However, heterosexuals are cited for lewd behavior all the time, so these two very well could have been cited for lewd behavior as well, and with good reason.

Actually, someone does speak for God. He's called a prophet. God created Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Hitler and Stalin, too, but I'm sure he wasn't too proud of them. We are all free to make choices with our lives. Some please God, some don't.

I suggest you look at who is complaining and keeping this issue alive, then reasses who needs to focuse on real problems.

Lastly, I'm not sure who you are referring to as Ugly Sub Human Scum. I wouldn't describe Homosexuals that way and I'm sure such a tolerant, open minded person as yourself wouldn't use such a moniker to describe my fellow mormons and/or Utahns.

@Legal Eagle - I agree that the protest is childish.
But i wasn't speaking of the protest, only of the kissing part. You don't think that the kiss played a little part at all in the aresst?

Is there a little chance at all that the prophet is blowing smoke up your rear end at all?

It wasn't a "Kiss" @Deevee - They were groping, being profain and lewd and they were drunk. They were asked several times to leave, they were more profain and lewd. Finally the SLCPD were called in they asked them to leave, they wouldn't and were more vulgar. These two individuals did this on purpose to further their cause.

There was one individual who posted on KSL and said he and his partner have shared a kiss on the pavilion and have never been bothered. He felt these two were not showing gays in their best light.

@Deevee - Yes, I will admit that the kiss played a small part in them ultimately being cited, if you will admit that their intoxication, rudeness and lewd behavior played the majority role in first being asked to stop, then being asked to leave, and then and only then, after they themselves requested the police be called, being issued a citation for trespassing. I really don't care if they were simply making funny faces at the security officers. It is private property and they were asked to leave and refused. That is the only issue. Don't allow yourself to be sucked into the belief that this was anti-homosexual.

As for your other point. I guess there is a small chance that the prophet is blowing smoke, but the risk of that is far outweighed by the chance that he is not and the blessings that come if I follow his counsel. We'll see in the end.

@Legal Eagle - I would love for you to have this arguement with a real homosexual.

@Deevee - I would love to have it. Show me the way. Are you asking me to have it with someone else because you can't defend your position? Am I wrong on the facts? Its not that hard to look past the spin and focus on the facts. Try it.

@Legal Eagle - YOU CAN'T USE THE BIBLE AND GOD AS FACTS IN THIS MATTER!!!!
Religion is just as corrupt as some governtments in other countries.

@Deevee - Answer the question!

@Legal Eagle - With someone as close minded as you? With someone who doesn't know both sides of the argument? Nope. Which makes this argument pointless!!!

Suck my bawls egale. suck my bawls.

@Deevee - Thank you. You just did more to harm your position than anything I could have said. Keep talking. With friends like you, the gays don't need enemies.

Deevee.... @Deevee - you might be right, but I doubt religion is as corrupt as the government in this country!

Deevee @Deevee - God did create all life; however, I believe that he does not create a person to live a gay life. I think he gives us all weaknesses that we must overcome. When we overcome these weaknesses we will become a stronger and more understanding person.

@guts31 - I am sure if you prefer men over women or women over men, you wouldn't wanna be with someone who isn't gonna make you happy.
But i am glad you belive that this isn't just something they choose.

@Deevee - "But i am glad you belive that this isn't just something they choose."

Do you have more than just your belief that it isn't something they choose?

@Legal Eagle - Well my family could tell my cousin was gay from a very young age.
Younger than 10. I don't think that someone that young chooses to be gay. do you??

@Deevee - Really? Please tell me the signs you saw at 10 that told you he was gay?

@Legal Eagle - Really feminine actions and interest in other things a regular 10 yr. old boy wouldn't have interest in.
My cousin even admits that from age 12 he knew that he wasn't interested in girls. And he did fight it till age 19.

@Deevee - Really femine actions? Interests in what things?

I can't say that I was that interested in girsl at 10-13 either, other than teasing them with bugs, frogs, snakes or pulling their hair. Does that mean I'm living a lie now and should abandon my family for a homosexual lover?

I think what you are doing is looking back at the past to find justification for your cousins choice.

I've know some boys who would rather play piano or violin than football or baseball or hunt. But they have gone on to get married, have children, with never a homosexual thought (that I'm aware of). I think it foolish to believe that you can see homosexual tendencies at that age.

@Legal Eagle - Actually the average age of interest in girls is 10-11.
Are you sure your straight?

@Deevee - Positive. Whether its my appreciation for the fine female form, or the fact that I gag a little when, as a result of discussions like this, I consider the act of homosexual sex, I'm certain of my sexual preference.

Can you cite your source on that statistic?

And, if that is the average age, that means that some gain an interest earlier and some later, so it proves nothing. I'm still waiting to hear about these blatantly obvious signs you saw.

@Legal Eagle - Are you hittin on me?

@Deevee - Still waiting. Its too bad you are so intent on being a childish troll rather than engaging in an honest discussion. Typical.

@Legal Eagle - Actually i don't need to prove anything to you.

Answer my question.

@Deevee - In the spirit of goodwill which so permeates this forum, I'll answer your question, though you have evaded mine. No, I'm not hitting on you. However, if someone were to provide me with a blunt instrument, I'd gladly take a couple swings (JOKE JOKE JOKE).

Now, care to return the favor by answering mine?

@Legal Eagle - I am flattered but it is against my religion!
And god would hate me!
And i'd [removed]!

Yes.. God created them.... @Deevee - but something went wrong in the process because what's located between your legs is the sign of what gender you are and thus results in who you should be attracted to. If that's not the case then something went wrong upstairs (or downstair, depending if there is a physical deformity). God doesn't create disfigured or deformed babies... an imperfect, and sometimes cruel, nature does that and God lets it run its course. That's the thing we call life. But if someone is finding themselves attracted to the same sex... it's not because God created them that way. And you're right... no one speaks for God... God speaks for God and what God said is written in the Bible on the matter. It is written that homosexual behavior is immoral. Having the urges or feelings of same sex attraction may come naturally due to some flaw within the brain... that's not immoral. It how you respond to it that makes immorality possible.

Example.. some people suffer from a psycho-sexual disorder that simply can't be cured.... only controlled. Someone may find themselves strangely attracted to small children and have the desire to act on it. Acting on those urges would be considered wrong... but their feelings seem to come naturally.

While I'll never understand what it's like to have those urges or feelings. But being a believer in Christian scripture, I cannot accept this behavior as "right" or "normal". Men leaving the natural use of the woman and men with men working that which is "unseemly" and burned in their lust toward one another. It's harsh but that's what it says. Their urges may come naturally and that's unfortunate. We can accept these people as they are... people. But that doesn't mean we have to be accepting of their actions in response to those urges.

@MPetrie - GREAT!!!
That was a really great comment!
The only thing i disagree with you is that you can't compare a gay persons actions to someone with a psycho-sexual disorder. Not nearly as bad!

But you are COMPLETELY right other than that.

Thank you!

Yeah... @Deevee - I'm not comparing the two.. just giving an example of someone who has feelings toward specific people (i.e. children) and these feelings are viewed to be "natural" by the patient. The feelings may seem natural but acting on those feelings would be wrong and immoral.

A man having sexual desires to be with another man instead of a woman is simply not right. It's not meant to be that way because men are physically meant to be with a woman. The bodies are built to work that way. But if they have no desires to be with a woman but with a man instead... something went wrong somewhere. I believe it's in the brain. But by and large, the brain is a very misunderstood and miraculous creation... thus any kid of explanation or "cure" for homosexuality hasn't been discovered. So... those with the same-sex attraction are asking for acceptance for this behavior and in a society that also contains people who believe in Biblical morality, they will always have opposition. I want all people regardless of sexual preference to have access to government benefits. But I don't want to be forced into accepting their sexual behavior in the process.

@MPetrie - You are exatcly right!!

The bitter gay person.... @Deevee - ....hath spoken. Trying to shove your perverted views down others throats makes it our problem. I don't want my kids seeing you sickos.

@Squeaky - If your kids aren't gay there should be no problem

I don't want my kids @Deevee - Seeing that kind of activity, e.g., groping, lewdness, making out and drunkeness from anyone. I don't want to see that either, ewww. Not even on TV.

These men set out to bait the security guards, when the guards couldn't make them behave in an acceptable manner, they called the cops, the cops couldn't make them behave in a seemly manner, they were arrested for trespassing. The men did it on purpose because they knew if they told the media they were arrested because they were KISSING, it didn't matter what the real story was, it was what the men said that was reported.

JUST MY ANSWER FROM NOW ON @Dan - geneticist > KSL Posters

I guess... @Deevee - You should just call him god in your mind then??

I have an Idea.... @Dan - Would someone with the Swine Flu please Go and Kiss as many People that You can?

Immorality, attention, hedonism..... @Dan - These people don't feel comfortable kissing in certain places.........ohhhh my goodness I can't believe that. I don't feel comfortable kissing my wife in certain places hmmmm maybe thats because your not suppose to feel comfortable just anywhere showing affection.

Affection should not be shown just anywhere. honestly who here likes to see people kiss? Movies is one thing but while you are in the park do you want to watch two people kiss?

These homosexuals are just making themselves to look like animals. A kissing contest. I would never show up to a kissing contest they are promiscuous and sick.I bet these perverts just pass each other around like a piece of meat.

They are losing all respect that people may have given them. I urge all intelligent homosexuals to put a stop to this. It will damage there reputation.

This hedonism needs settle down a bit. This free loving pornographic love needs to stay in the bedroom.


Thanks,

freaks

-john Galt

HMM @Dan - What abgout mormon [removed] where do they take part in it?

AWESOME!!! @Dan - Over the past several days, I'd been in contact with an aunt and uncle who live in Long Beach (CA) who have a homosexual daughter, as well as a 5 other relatives who voted against Prop 8 because they were sympathetic to the gay cause. NOT ANYMORE! Upon hearing all the things that the homo activists are doing...they are all fed up and not taking it anymore. All of them have told me that now they would have voted FOR Prop 8 and not siding with gays no longer! YEA!!! I think that this is going to really backfire on homosexuals, so let them keep being stupid with their lies and propaganda!!!

Friedrich Nietzsche @Dan - “Extreme positions are not succeeded by moderate ones, but by contrary extreme positions.” -Friedrich Nietzsche

I for one am more fearful of the mild, moderate discussion on homosexuality then I am of the outlandish and provocative one. So I say more power to you homos. Continue with your "kiss-in" because I am one who understands that You’re not promoting tolerance for your cause but rather promoting hatred towards your own perverted ideals.

Don't @Bulletman21 - tell them that mild moderate discussion would work better, we don't want them to succeed in this...

The REAL story @Dan - Gay people can do whatever they want, just like straight people can, as well.

The irritating thing about this is that the REAL story has been erased. The original gay men were drunk and making out on private property owned by the LDS church. Of course, the church asked the men to leave several times before calling the police.

Ridiculous. Let's use news time for something that's actually important- not this pathetic attempt.

this is just stupid @Dan - ya know these people want equel rights to marrage and all that well then they should act like normal people so what if there gay or les enough is enough they need to be arrested if there going to have these gay relleys it bull crao people dont care if someone is gay but they dony want there noses rubbed in it

Hey look at me I'm a homosexual!!

More like.... @SlurpeeDecepticon - "Hey, look at me, I'm a homosexual. I need for you to accept me, so I feel OK about myself. But still, I don't want you calling it a mental disorder."

@Ang Pinakamakapangyarihan - yor are sick

I have been feeling a little under the weather lately. @news435reader - How'd you know?

@Ang Pinakamakapangyarihan - Does anyone want to be singled out for a mental disorder?
Do you think they would like it to be a metal disorder!?

Don't be ignorant.

No worries @Deevee - They avoid being singled out by gathering in large groups for protest and parades.

Much to their surprise, they get upset when people don't agree with their deviant behavior and play the poor me victim card.

It's all about choice.

Deevee, Let's tell the truth here. You know that they were NOT arrested for a simple kiss. @Deevee - First it wasnt a simple "kiss" They were making out and groping each other.

Any straight couple would have been asked to leave if they were doing that also.

They were arrested because they were asked to leave and became hostile with the police.

This protest is an absolute attack on the LDS church and you know it.

Homosexuality is vile and disgusting, those who embrace it will be punished there is no avoiding it. You can protest all you want the church wont change its stance.

To all of you gays thanks for promoting your HATE towards the LDS church. TOLERANCE requires TOLERANCE quit trying to hide behind that word, we all know your hate of yourselves and of the LDS church.

You are the true HATERS.

@HuntingFisher73 - These vagrants were just the excuse the community needed to launch a full on assault against the church.
They will show them.
They are going to kiss in public.
Take that Brigham Young.

(((yawn)))

Go home homos.

Great point @HuntingFisher73 - "To all of you gays thanks for promoting your HATE towards the LDS church. TOLERANCE requires TOLERANCE quit trying to hide behind that word, we all know your hate of yourselves and of the LDS church"

I love it, great point. I accept you and your choice (and my family members who are gay) but I dont agree with it.

Accept my choice and my religions stance on the issue, even if you dont agree with it.

Lets keep in mind the issue was trespassing. They were asked to leave and did not, so they could be and were arrested. Much the same as I am legally allowed to carry a weapon without anyone knowing into a business (or any private property for that matter), if the business asks me to leave for that reason, I must leave or risk being arrested for trespassing. It does not matter the reason, if you are asked to leave, you must or risk being arrested, your choice.

That will coincide nicely with....... "National Makes Me Want to Throw up Day"!

You mean last Friday... @Rollo' - ...Oh I know huh!?!

Don't start knocking pioneer day now JGN @Jgn - unless you were grown in a test tube and have no ancestores in which to remember. cheers

Seriously.... WHY I am so sick of these people marching around and protesting when they don't even have all the fact's. it seems to me that 2 gay men where doing something they should not have been on church property and were asked to leave. they starting swearing and being morons about it, so the police were called. and weather or not that is all true, the fact is, it is still not there property, and when they were asked to leave, they should have. BUT NO..... instead the media has to be involved and act like those 2 guy's who were busted in the first place, did nothing wrong. I have gay friend's, although I don't think it is right, I still like them and treat them all the same as I do any of my friend's, but I don't want to see them playing grab ass ether. so I say, to all the people involved in the kiss in. get a job or find something productive to do rather than show off your pride.

You can do that? @c15 - You can TRY being gay? I thought it was genetic! Can I try being a different skin color too?

oy @Anyhoo - Being gay is caused by a birth defect. Now you know.

Birth Defect??? @c15 - It has not been proved to be anything of the kind. There are theories and nothing more. The so called proof that has been given has not been duplicated by anyone else, So it remains a theory. Till verifiable proof is given most theories will stay theories.

When I was in Zoology classes we had a student try to prove this. He couldn't prove it. The instructor said all he had was a hypothisis and nothing more. He did not have any verifiable evidence to prove his theory. The same is still true today. The gay people make a claim ot hypothisis that can not be proved. So far no gene has been found to cause a person to be gay, so far no gene defect has been found to cause one to be gay. Even though the gay people have stated they have found such a gene, it has never been verified by any indepandent lab as being verifiable. So far scientists can only agree to disagree.

however, I don't think the gay people what to have such a gene found. Science says that if such a gene is found then they should be able to produce a cure for this defect. Then medical science could nip being gay in the early years of a persons life. I am sure that the so called gay community does not want this to happen. As one proffessor put it, being gay is more of a social disease than anything else. The gay people just want acceptace of something that most are taught is a deviant lifestyle. They are trying to make it sound like they didn't have a choice in it without any proof. We know that being another color is not a personal choice. But we know that being gay usually is a personal choice. There is no race or color called gay. But ther is a condition called homosexual that is a choice. Just like being heterosexual or bisexual is a choice. In todays society it is fashionable to be gay. It is can not be called anything else till verifiable proof is submitted. So far no such proof has been submitted and probably never will. If such proof is submitted there is no doubt that medical science could seek a cure for being gay. This would most likely be given to a child before they were old enough to declare that they were gay.

Sure you want to push this agenda of it being a birth defect? Medical science has developed cures for certain birth defects so far and in some instances whre a birth defect can not be cured the mother has the right to abort a baby so the birth defect does not come into this world. I wonder what would happen if a mother knew she was going to give birth to a gay child. I wonder how many mothers would want to put their child through such a life and would rather abort it and try for a child society considers natural and normal. Food for thought...

very thoughtful wolfdragon @Wolfdragon - I agree. If it was a sickness/defect then the gays should be flocking to hospitals to get a cure (if there was one)for the "sickness" they have. That is what any other "sick" person does. they don't accept that they have a cronic illness and never treat it.

Please tolerate our bad behavior, next news story- Two year olds are holding a protest in Albertson's checkout line for bubble gum, more on that story at 10:00.

@Twila - I will clear my schedule for that story.

Oh no.
I bet the church is really scared of a bunch of flaming homosexuals!!
Nothing worse than someone dressing really nice with great taste in decorating and music being upset.
They might come on church property and redecorate.
I can only imagine the horrific sight of Temple Square having more flowers and maybe one of those cherubs in a fountain.
Very stylish.
Church beware.. . .

LDS keep whining because they can't have their way . . . nationally in image making.

Understand, guys, that most Americans do not like your national image, although they generally love you living next door to them.

Troll me if you feel like it, but while doing so think of how you can repair your image.

Repair our image? @wren - Are you stupid? Do you realize that what you are asking is for the mormon people to support a sin that the mormon people have always been strongly against. Just because a certain few folks have made bad choices I suppose you think we are to support them. You say the mormon community needs to repair their image with the gay community, I say the gay community needs to repair their image with the mormon community.

?? Check history @Yapper - Throughout history, some church has told some people they were wrong. Wrong about their lives, lifestyle, science, skin color, skin color, skin color

Then, centuries later the church is forced to change because the evidence to the contrary swamps them.

This is happening once again.
Now, the church can admit it was wrong and go out of business honorably, or it can skew the facts, re-paint its history, charm its members.

So far, this church is not prepared to allow gays to marry in the temple, and so this battle will continue.

The church is wrong? @c15 - Your statement is just as valid as me telling you that you were wrong to eat frosted flakes this morning for breakfast. The constitution protects the LDS church on the marriage in temples issue.

Regardless of what the Mormon Church believes... @c15 - the fact is that this whole protest is in response to behavior on private property.

You say that the Mormon Church should change its beliefs in order to accommodate the homosexuals who may want to marry in their temples? Why should they change to accommodate people who are not only living a way that is contrary to how they believe but are openly hostile towards members of this particular church?

And frankly, if you researched a little bit, you'd find that most Christian churches feel the same way and support the Mormon Church in their beliefs regarding homosexual behavior. And yes, that includes African American religious denominations as well.

wrong! @Anyhoo - Because you will find in the next few years that Gayness is caused by a birth defect! Then all your homo theories will be swept away. Bush-bye.

Birth defect? @c15 - You say this as though being gay is like being born with an extra toe. Homosexuality is a psycological disorder (been proven many times). Gay people can almost always remember a time when they weren't gay. Telling yourself something over and over again will only trick your mind into believing. This couldn't be more true.

nope @Yapper - Nope, it ain't a psychological disorder.
It's a birth defect.

Now please, shut yer yapper

Actually... @c15 - It has not been proved to be anything of the kind. There are theories and nothing more. The so called proof that has been given has not been duplicated by anyone else, So it remains a theory. Till verifiable proof is given most theories will stay theories.

When I was in Zoology classes we had a student try to prove this. He couldn't prove it. The instructor said all he had was a hypothisis and nothing more. He did not have any verifiable evidence to prove his theory. The same is still true today. The gay people make a claim ot hypothisis that can not be proved. So far no gene has been found to cause a person to be gay, so far no gene defect has been found to cause one to be gay. Even though the gay people have stated they have found such a gene, it has never been verified by any indepandent lab as being verifiable. So far scientists can only agree to disagree.

however, I don't think the gay people what to have such a gene found. Science says that if such a gene is found then they should be able to produce a cure for this defect. Then medical science could nip being gay in the early years of a persons life. I am sure that the so called gay community does not want this to happen. As one proffessor put it, being gay is more of a social disease than anything else. The gay people just want acceptace of something that most are taught is a deviant lifestyle. They are trying to make it sound like they didn't have a choice in it without any proof. We know that being another color is not a personal choice. But we know that being gay usually is a personal choice. There is no race or color called gay. But ther is a condition called homosexual that is a choice. Just like being heterosexual or bisexual is a choice. In todays society it is fashionable to be gay. It is can not be called anything else till verifiable proof is submitted. So far no such proof has been submitted and probably never will. If such proof is submitted there is no doubt that medical science could seek a cure for being gay. This would most likely be given to a child before they were old enough to declare that they were gay.

Sure you want to push this agenda of it being a birth defect? Medical science has developed cures for certain birth defects so far and in some instances whre a birth defect can not be cured the mother has the right to abort a baby so the birth defect does not come into this world. I wonder what would happen if a mother knew she was going to give birth to a gay child. I wonder how many mothers would want to put their child through such a life and would rather abort it and try for a child society considers natural and normal. Food for thought...

Zoology class is hardly authorized... @Wolfdragon - ...to provide any sort of result (either for or against) towards homosexuality. It's so obvious that homosexuality is a psycological problem that know one needs to repute it. If it were a gene then ALL people who are gay would have been such from birth. But this is not the case. Some gay folks become later in life. I have met gay people who said they became gay around the age of 18 or so. In college, I had classes in genetics that stated that traits, as previlant as sexual orientation, that an individual was born with present themselves at a much earlier age. There has been much research into this subject so to claim otherwise is to simply ignore it, possibly because the results do not agree with your stance.

Research.. @Yapper - Yes ther has been lots of research. However, nomne of it been verified by anyone. The thisng is that the results have to be verified by someone else other than the the people making claim on their theory. So far no one has verified anything on how anyone becomes gay. So far it is still a mystery. Even with species in the Animal kingdom it is still a mystery. Several theroies say it is a gene that cause it. As of yet no gene has been verified to cause it. Other theories say it is a birth defect we are born with and this has not been proven either. Some say it is a social desease or it is imprinted on us, or a host of other ideas. The problem is that none of these hypothisis's have been proven as true.

The gay people rely on one of these to be true. They claim they are true even though there is no verification of any of the theroies that have been oput forward. So far no other reseacer has verified any of the claims put forward. Till this happens this issue will always remain contriversial. Even if it is found to be solved, it will always remain contriversial with religion. Many feel Gods Laws trump mans laws and what science says or thinks is natural law. Afterall Science is the belief of what they, the scientist, thinks natural law is.

I disagree with your notion that this is a psychological problem. Zoology is the Study of animals. This includes humans as we are part of the animal kingdom. Zoology includes physical and mental states within it. We look at why do species do some of the things they do. We look ate genetics, the makeup of a certain spoecies, the traits and mentality. We look at more than just what they look like.

I have had many genetics classes. I have had begining to advanced genetics. I lack one class for a minor in genetics and 4 classes for a degree in genetics. My instructor stated that many of the theories on homosexual traits were just that, theories. He statated that there was no proof on either side of the issue. So it comes down to beliefs. There are lots of theories both pro and con, but so far none of them have been proven. For something to become a fact, it must be proven by more than one group. so far the gay issue has not been proven over and over to be classified as true. So far all we have is theories and speculation. None of which makes them true. A theory has to be verifiable to become true. The results must be the same in every case. This does not mean they can be close. The results must be exact to be classified as true. To have anything different does not make the theory true. Also the result must be the same for anyone who reproduces the theory. It must always come out the exact same conclusion. To be off even a fraction disproves the theory. Close does not count in Science. Everything is exact. The results are always exact and the repeat of an theory must always be exact.

Some kid... @Wolfdragon - ...in your zoology class does not count as verification either. And you are touting it as such. Nature clearly states that homosexuality is NOT normal. In nature, survival of the fittest always wins. Homosexuality will never win in nature simply because homosexuals cannot produce offspring. Yes there are a few exceptions but those exceptions are rare even among the animals of which this can take place. In my mind, this trumps all, religious or other arguements. An animal that is homosexual cannot live past 1 single generation. This is nature and common sense. Genes are known to follow as nature dictates. Yes there are abnormal genes that present themselves in individuals but those genes, many times, prove to be disadvantageous to the individual. Thus, nature it's way of weeding out these genes. This is exactly how animals evolve to their environment. Otherwise they could not survive.

It can be seen throughout history that psycological problems can persist through the ages. These are no doubt problems to the individual who holds them. This means that if disadvantageous genes cannot persist throughout time but psycological problems can, then homosexuality is most easily described as a psycological problem.

Yapper, other non-LDS think you are @Yapper - . . . wrong, and believe your image is wrong.

Go check the polls and surveys.

Bud, your image is trash as a church.

I have... @wren - ...and my sources state that you are wrong. You can't source your information from a website that supports gay rights and state that it's unbiased.

@wren - I'm having trouble reconciling your claim. First you say that our (the LDS Church) national image is trashed because of our stance on homosexuality, including I would assume, gay marriage and that polls and surveys back you up (though you provide no source).

However, the actual votes on this issue would tend to disprove your theory. There are currently close to 30 states with either a statute or a constitutional amendment barring gay marriage. In virtually every state where it has been put on the ballot it has been approved. So, since I can't address the veracity or accuracy of your "polls", I can, with confidence state that on this issue, our church's stance is in line with the majority of the country. Also of interest is the fact that those states where gay marriage is legal, is has been made legal, not by the voice of the people, but rather the courts, or in the case of Massachusetts, the legislature. While legislative action lends a little more credence to the law, it is hardly as representative of the people as the direct voting that has been done in the other states.

Legal Eagle, @Legal Eagle - When do we get to vote on your marriage?

Marriage is a basic civil right. Civil rights should never be put to a public vote. If the public had a chance to vote on the rights of African Americans during the Civil Rights Movement, majority opinion would have been against equal rights for blacks. Same goes with the women's movement and so on. That's why we have legislative and judicial branches: to check the public.

That's funny wren... @wren - I thought it was the homosexuals that were staging protests because they can't have it their way.

@dirtybandaid - It's not Burger King.

guys, I don't care what your beliefs are and neither does the nation, @SlurpeeDecepticon - . . . but your collective stupidity on this issue continues to damage your national image.

This is a fact.

Accept it then if this is what you want: "Mormonism is stupid!" continually repeated in our schools, colleges, work places, and families across America.

And, wren, nobody cares what you have to say... @wren - on this issue. Put one of you parents online, 'cause this is an adult issue. This ain't for kids.

@Ang Pinakamakapangyarihan - okay, that was funny. I just spewed chocolate milk all over the screen.

Thanks alot.

Sorry @SlurpeeDecepticon - about that.

Unfortunately for you... @wren - ...the majority of the nation feels the same as the mormon church on this issue. If you want to change this then I suggest you gay folks start by trying to change the fundamental beliefs of Christianity.

You post your statements as though they are fact when they are not. I realize that mormon folks do the same but this makes your claims just as irrevolant as those you argue against.

nope, the nation does not feel like you guys on this issue @Yapper - More than 50% of the nation supports gay marriage and civil unions, including Bush, Cheney, Obama, and the Clintons.

You are in the minority, and the rest of the nation is laughing at you.

@wren - I would like more information on your cited statistics. Gay Marriage and Civil Unions are not viewed to be the same, and should not be cited together.

It is akin to saying that the statistical probability of marriage OR non-marriage happening is 100%. Yet in this example one tends to exclude the other.

So a person could be for civil unions, but against gay marriage. Yet your example would count the one and exclude the other.

Frankly, Wren @wren - we really do not care that "the nation is laughing" at us. We rather expect it, actually. We understand that, as time goes on, what is wrong will be called right and that those who rationalize wrong principles will mock those who hold onto what is eternally correct.

So we don't care about image, in that regard. Those who agree with what we believe and uphold as higher standards will be drawn to us anyway. We do not have an image problem as regards our standards of behavior. (Some people would lie as to what we believe, and distort our teachings, saying, for example, that LDS hate gay people, which is not at all true - that is a problem.)

I personally do agree that some people may be "born" gay, as a sort of birth defect (for lack of a better term). But I do not agree with you that this has to result in gay behavior. It is the behavior that is the choice.

Life is about much, much, much more than our base sexual desires and the fulfillment or lack of fulfillment of those desires. To focus our lives on this single area is to deny so many other righteous possibilities.

oh really @wren - is that why gay marriage is now legal in ca oh wait it got voted down sorry

yeah, prop 8 was rigged! @wren - Look Wren, We (Mormons)dont care what public opinion is. We believe that there is a Prophet of God who directs men on earth, period. I understand that you may not believe that yourself, but how can you expect us to apologize for our beliefs?

What would the gays do if I went to a private gay bar and started reading from the bible about Sodom and Gomorrah? I would get kicked out, right? Then I would have to stage a "read in" at the gay bar and say that it is my right to practice any religion I want especially on private property (which the gay bar would be)... totally within my rights wouldn’t you say? Of course not! Because I am not respecting other rights to believe and freedom to act as they wish! Especially those of the owners and patrons.

Next, Obama does not support gay marriage or unions. Look it up. Neither do some of the others you mentioned. And Prop 8 was rejected in California which is one of the most "open" (progressive) communities in the country, I doubt that people in the Mid-West would be more supportive than the liberals in California. If you want to live with people who except your choice of lifestyle move there. The Mormons came west so they could do just that.

My last point is I don’t want my children two and four to learn about homosexuality until they are old enough to understand it and the consequences of its actions. Gays would like to force people to accept them and there actions while denying others the same right. I dont want my children being pressured while their minds are malleable in to doing something because it is trendy.

I dont care if being gay is a gene or a learned action, really doesn't matter to me. I personally believe it goes against nature. I can be respectful of others choices and actions, but only as long as it does not affect me or my family. I don’t force you to pay tithing to my church or attend my meetings so please don’t force me to accept or pay for your beliefs.

really? @dsw1976 - You claim that you don't care about public opinion, then please explain why blacks are now allowed to hold the priesthood, and polygamy isn't practiced any more. Oh, that's right, it was revelations that changed these things, not the public outcry. And if you believe that, I have this bridge in Brooklyn I can make you a sweet deal on.

Why the hate? @R D. - I dont care about public opinion, polygamy was something we gave up, not a sin we allowed becuase of what the public thought about it. There is a huge difference, and not a valid argument.

Please educate me on the social pressures of Blacks and the priesthood... I missed that in Sunday School. What exactly were the "pressures of society" on The Church in 1978?

I did however find this site that talks about The Church's stance on black people in the 1800s compared to that of other denominations. Look forward to your response.

http://lds.about.com/library/weekly/previousyears/aa021898.htm

what is there to disagee about? @dsw1976 - could you please let me know why you disagree. I did think I put a lot in there that could be viewed as opinion.

@dsw1976 - All of Mormonism is based purely on speculation and opinion. There is no way to prove anything in Mormonism, it is all based on putting your trust and faith in others.

@R D. - and where do other beliefs come from

Thats fine. @R D. - I dont agree with your opinion, but I understand where you are coming from.

The real problem here is that we disagree. So I wont read my scriptures in your bar, and you dont grope your partner on my church's property. There! Problem solved.

Or better yet, why dont you be-little my beliefs and force me to agree with your point of view.

Wait, hold the line @dsw1976 - did you say that we gave up polygamy? How could we give up that activity? You mean that turning our back on behavior (polygamy could be seen as a similar activity to homosexual in that some people say it is all about gratification) is actually possible? The horror!!!

I agree, what was the pressure on the church in 1978? Furthermore, are those that say these types of things aware of the experience as Spencer Kimball has written about it? This was a very pressing question in his mind that he wanted to know more about, and he had to sacrifice to get an answer on this issue.

@R D. - Polygamy is no longer practiced because it was outlawed and because if the practice was not stopped within the US boundaries, armed forces were to be sent to forcefully put an end to it. While it may be an eternal principle, we are also obliged to honor and obey the laws of men.

Blacks were granted the priesthood because it was necessary to allow the genealogical work to move forth.

You may or may not accept these reasons, choosing instead to believe your own, or at least those propagated by those who have an ax to grind, but they are the reasons none-the-less. The LDS Church moves on its own time and for its purposes, unswayed by political correctness and public opinion. Its goals are the benefit of its members and the rest of the inhabitants of this world, to create a better place for all.

Usually when policy changes @R D. - Like the blacks receiving the Priesthood, it's because of many prayers from our Prophet. It's from fasting and prayers from membership. Everyone I know was so ecstatic when the blacks were granted the Priesthood, it was amazing. The black members I know don't complain about this issue, I don't understand why it's an issue here on the KSL Board.

Furthermore @Jules Best - there were many black members despite the not-being-able-to-hold-the-priesthood issue. Why would that be the case?

wren you are putting apples with oranges @wren - Change your statement to take out Gay Marriage with Civil Unions. Obama and Bush support Gay Civil Unions not marriage.

Really??? @wren - Please show us your source that has 50% of the nation supporting gay marriage.

And if your moral ideas are formed by what Obama, clitons, etc have to say that explains alot about you.

wren, if those who oppose gay marrage are the minority @wren - Then why didn't prop 8 pass?.... Nevermind, I'm sure you have some tinfoil hat, black helecopeters and lazer beams conspiracy theory, or you'll just blame the Mormons. Also, when you say the rest of the nation, who exactly are you refering to? Where is this vast majority you speak of? I'd like to find them so I can point and laugh back at them. Why can I not find this article on CNN, FOX or even the Onion? Could it be that very few actualy care?

Really??? @wren - The fact is that these men were asked to leave the property and refused unless you wish to rewrite personal property laws then maybe you should reconsider your post.

Nice call Wren @wren - You're dead on... can you smell the hypocrisy? "LOVE EVERYONE... (unless they don't meet our standards or beliefs)"

SLC? The title of this article makes it sounds like that the Salt Lake government is standing behind this. Which would no doubt be a wrong on their part.

Yapper @Yapper - I am remaining neutral on this whole kiss in issue, but I did want to point out that the SLC Government tends to do everything the Church wants. From SB81 to selling off a street for the square, the government in all essence is the Church.

Again not saying right or wrong, it just is.

@LostinSLC - Does this mean that the SLC Government is also Catholic?

During the controversy over the sale of the mainstreet plaza was sold, it also came to light that previously a street had been sold off to I believe the St Vincent center.

I never see "hetersexuals" making out when i have passed the "Plaza" and it is private property... So why would a "homosexual" couple feel they should be able to go at it there? i'd turn the sprinklers on for any couple who started goin at it on my front yard...

if you want to feel eachother up, i dont care what your sexual preferance is... i really dont care to see it... get a room...

hmmm @Hesus - You know, while it's not "making out" I see displays of affection some Sundays's in church (LDS) that are a little much in my opinion. I love my wife, but I don't go to church so I can sit on the pew and rub all over her which frankly I've seen a lot of.

As for this curent issue...we should have more tolerance on both sides. I don't want anybody trying to force an agenda on me. I've known many gays over the course of my life and generally, as long as they respect that I'm not gay and arent hitting on me it doesn't affect me. I don't personally like seeing ANYBODY making out in public. Holding hands, a kiss.. ok tonsil inspection..YUCK. There is a place for that and it isn't in public.

As for trying to force a church, any church, to change the way they feel God wants them to beleive is just not going to happen. The LDS church is not going to start letting gays marry in the temples. Not now, not ever.

Now frankly, that being said, I also think it's worthy of discussion as to if it's really anybody's business if legal aged consenting adults decide to practice polygamy. Same thing applies, if it's how a church feels they are worshipping. We who are LDS can't argue against that one without claiming we too were built on false foundations.. and, even the wording of the declaration which ended the practice does not say it was wrong.

As for the remainder of the gay issue, discrimination is wrong. Being legally able to discriminate based on gende or race is wrong and in a country where we hold by a tenet that states "all men are created equal" then discriminating against someone for their sexual orientation is also wrong.

We need to get past all this silly stuff and work on something that matters.

No kidding "I live in New York City, and yet there are places in New York City where I don't feel comfortable kissing my boyfriend on the street," said Badash.

Not comfortable in every place in NYC? Welcome to reality.

@klockhamer - why would you want to kiss someone on the street? beds are way more comfortable...

Just imagine... @SlurpeeDecepticon - ...if they did that in some Bible Belt town. They'd
get strung up at the nearest tree.

I thought they @Dan - ran out of trees in the 60's

The GLT group The Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender folks have had their fifteen minutes of exposure, so KSL, find something newsworthy to report on.

gay church So i am confused why the gay people dont form there own church. one based on the laws of the bible that pertain to them if any are present and leave the lds people to there beliefs

Gee, there's an idea! @ . - So you want to join a group, but you don't believe in everything that the group believes, so instead of forming your own group you try to force the group to change their beliefs to fit yours!

Sums it up nicely, don't ya think.

Unfortunately, logic like that doesn't seem to run in the gay activist circles. It must be a genetic defect.

GAY CHURCH... @ . - They won't do that because then we could show up on their door steps and try to make they change the way they want to be...

Hey, might be cool @gman - I could use some decorating tips anyway

c'mon man. id be hilarious @gman - Say they created there own church and went door to door.

Knock knock. Hello, I just wanted to speak to you about …....whoa, whats up with your carpet and drapes. Thats hideous. Is that a plad shirt your wearing? [no swearing please]that is soooo overly butch. ok, here what you do...

Live how you will... But if you really want the publics respect, don't dance around in your underwear in your pride parades. Civilized straight people don't do that, why should they? You made your point... the behavior I see from homosexuals in public is far worse than I see with a straight couple. Perhaps the cops had a good reason to arrest them.. alcohol anyone?

Fact God created Adam and Eve, NOT Adam and Steve!

Someone voted witty? @Chaoren - Maybe I thought that was witty the first time I heard it about 20 years ago. That is about 30 times I've seen the Adam and Steve comment on KSL this week.

BAHAHAHAH!! @Chaoren - dude I've never heard that one!

@Chaoren - Really, God created Adam and Eve? Well let's just do a little math here. According to the bible, if you follow the timeline of who begat this and that, and taking into consideration that the bible claims that Adam lived over 900 years (lol), Moses lived about 3000 years after the birth of Adam. I use the time between Adam and Moses because there are good references as to when Moses would have been alive. The bible claims Moses freed the Hebrews from Ramses. It doesn't say which Ramses, but just to make it even better for those who believe in the bible, I'll use Ramses I for this. Ramses I ruled around 1300 B.C., which is about 3300 years ago. Add that 3300 years to the 3000 years between Adam and Moses, and you get 6300 years. So Adam was created 6300 years ago according to the bible and simple math. Really, how does this work? We have fossil remains of people in the Americas that are over 18,000 years old, and much older than that in Europe and even older in Africa. So Adam and Eve were created about 12,000 years after people were already walking around. Do you see the problem with this bible teaching?

RD. @R D. - Are you an Atheist?

No... @Chaoren - ....he's an intellectual. Something you'd know little to nothing about.

Nor would you @4Brtndr1 - as there is evidence that this type of stuff could happen:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/Story?id=7880954&page=1

Just because most of the people you know now age quickly doesn't mean that everyone has throughout history.

I wish... That the media would just ignore these so called kiss-ins. The more the media priints this the more these people think they are getting good press. Fact is that everyone is tired of this junk. The other fact is that this is hurting the gay people more than they really know.

They should think about what it is doing to their image to keep this in the news and to keep making this an issue. As far as I am concerned, it just makes me more against their policies and makes me to not want to see their agenda pushed forward.

They preach so called tolerance, yet they are more intolerant than the mormons. They preach anti-hate, yet they hate worse than the people who are against them. If anyone says or does something they don't like then they start the conflict they are battling. I am beginning to think that they are spoling for a fight and will do or say anything to get headlines. IT is too bad that everything they do is a negitive for their cause. As long as they are keeping up this hate campaign then people will not recognize anything they do.

The nation is getting tired of these people and the more they fight the more the straight people will keep voting to deny them what they are demanding. As long as the gay people keep trying to cram their lifestyle down the Christen peoples throat they will keep losing. As long as the gay people keep pulling stunts like what these two guys did, it will continue top hurt their cause. They can't demand that the community look the other way and not be offended when the the gay people blattenly do something to cause attention to themselves that offend the rest of the people.

I have a live and let live attitude. However, I detest a group that thinks that they are above the law and can do anything they like to gain headlines. I also detest a group that thinks that only one group is the only group against them. You have many groups against your livfestyle. You have not only the mormons, but you have cathlolics, jews, baptists, And every christen community that disagrees with your lifestyle. Yet you continuely pick on only one group. Not only that but they are the smallest group. Makes me think that you are afraid to pick on the Large groups like the Catholics or Baptists. I don't see you demanding them to change their policies that they have against you. I don't see you demonstrating against them. There are more religions out there than just the mormons who are against your lifestyle. Every christen church is against your lifestyle. just about every religion has a ban against same sex marriage or same sex mating. Many of the non-christen religions have a ban againsdt it as it is not considered natural in nature or it is against their views as put forth by their leaders or prophets.

It is time to start practicing what you are preaching. Then maybe you will gain some credibility. Right now you have none. Most people think you are just crying wolf to gain as much attention as you can. Everyone knows what hapopens when you cry wolf too many times. Everyone eventually ignores you and does not come to your aid. Quit making a mountain out of a mole hill and quit lying to make yourselves look picked on. you know that these guys went out there purposely to draw attention to themselves and to pick a fight. They had nothing else on their mind but to tery to make the mormons look bad and cry wolf when in reality they were the wolf. Quit doing negitive things and try being the better person. Quit trying to be the injured party and live and let live. The outcome might suprise you. But then I don't think you guys will ever stop the negitivity and I think you puch till you fall off the edge and wonder why you lost. Maybe in 20 to 40 yeqars another generation will decide to give you what you are demanding, but it won't be your children who give it to you. Maybe after the hoopla dies down will you get what you want.

national pea brains like I'm really going want to render support after you've repulsed me!!! again and again and again... even if they were straight couples I'd say, like enough is enough, take it to your F room!!!

GAY AGGRESSION is the worst and most negative aspect to their movment and is delaying their desired in by years.

A hetrosexual couple would be arrested for displaying the same type of behavior -- as I have heard the police report.

The Main Street arrest had nothing to do with gay but had everything to do with inappropriate behavior in public.

WHY CANT YOU GET IT THRU YOUR THICK SKULLS =NO MORE GAYNEWS WE are burned out by this sickness

So.. is everyone just gonna get up and yell and call the 'homos' names and talk about them?? Because you dont believe its ok? And its 'dumb' for what they are doing? You're wasting your time.. Get on with your life and don't worry bout it..

OOh no Not a nationwide push-in. Thats gotta hurt.

gay people cant the homos and lesbians go back in the closet please just shut up you [removed]

And this is going to do what for their cause? It's only going to anger people opposed to homosexuality even more.

They are basicly shooting themselves in the foot, again.

If they want any acceptance at all, they should go back to their closets where they belong and shut the door.

Kissing in public I for one do not believe that open displays of affection need to happen. Kissing in public or anything of the sort that small children do not need to see.

Anyways gay or not get a life people.

Do it on your own property Besides the fact that it simply groses the majority of the public out - how would you gay folks feel if us straight people came to your front lawn and started making out. Do it on your own property, no one cares if you do it there, at least I don't.

mormons vs. gays hmm.. i jus gotta say that if mormons believe having mulitple wives is what is right..so be it..do what u do.. and marry 12 13 and 14 year old girls..
let the gays do what they do.. the gays aren't doing anything wrong.. just like the mormons aren't..

That's right, bash the Mormons again. @JiLLThRiLL55 - It's ok for non-LDS to have polygamous relationships but the fact that the LDS had them over 100 years ago and has not since means that we still are and it's not ok.

The LDS don't marry 12, 13 and 14 year old girls. That would be the FLDS.

The gays are most certainly doing things wrong. Their actions are sick, wrong, and immoral on all grounds.

in fairness @JiLLThRiLL55 - Mormons, meaning current members of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" do not practice polygamy. Nor do they engage in the practice of under age marriage. The FLDS church and some others DO practice polygamy but you can't classify them as "Mormon". So be fair in your categorizations. It is true that Mormons did practice polygamy and it is true that at that time (the 1800's) there were marriages that would be considered "under-age" by modern definition. It is also true that back then, To marry at 14 or 15 was not really uncommon, perhas not predominate, but certainly not uncommon.

Last I recall... @JiLLThRiLL55 - mormons don't pratice havine multiple wives. They banned the practice before Utah became a state. At least that is what I learned in School. Maybe you need to read up on Utah history and see that that the mormon people don't practice this anymore.

Now there are splinter groups that disagree with the mormons and they practice this deviant behaviour of marrying 12, 13 and 14 year old girls. These are people who have left the mormon church for one reason or another and started up thier own church to practice what they believe to be true. They have nothing to do with the mormon church. Just remember that most christen churches are a splinter group from the Catholic Church. We can't compare them to the Catholic Church as they are different from the Catholic Church. The same goes for any splinter group from any other religion. They splintered cause they didn't believe in the same way as the mother church. To compare the two is like comparing apples and oranges. They don't compare at all. Each has different beliefs and each practices in their own way. One can not be compared to the other as there is no comparison. What the mormon church maybe yesterday, is not the church that stands today. The same can be said of the Catholic Church, what it was 100, 200 or ever 500 years ago it is not the same today. Churches evolve over time. Religious beliefs change to fit the time they are in. They are not ever forced by one group or another to change. They change as they see fit to fit by their beliefs and some of the interpetations they believe is correct. The Catholic Church changes just a bit with every Pope that comes into power. As new leadership comes to power, every religion changes it'smdoctern by the leaders beliefs. It will always be this way. It is not the public or anyone else that forces the religion to change. It is always the leadership that makes these changes. A religion is always run by the leaders of that church. how they believe and they think they believe. Changesd are slow and very slight. When a change does come about there is always a group standing in the wings that claim they were the ones who brought it about. The reality is that the leadership brought it about when they decided that it was time to bring it about. It never happens before the leadership decides to allow it.

I have yet to see a religion bow to any one group or to change it's policy quickly just because a group demands it. Religions practice Gods Law and none other. They are not concerned with Mans law as it rates second to Gods Laws. Religions will interupt Gods laws as they see fit. They rarely bend to mans laws when it collides with Gods Laws. Take Abortion, Most religions find this offensive to Gods Laws. Many call it it Murder. Yet mans law says it is legal, Gods Law says it is not legal and you will have to pay for killing one of Gods Children, unless you gain Gods forgiveness. Some religions even go as far to say there is no forgiveness for murder. It all hinges on your religions beliefs.

The same goes about being gay, almost all the religions denounce it as evil and a sin. Most religions are founded on procreation, which can not happen with a couple that is same sex. Even in nature it takes one male and female to procreate. Any same sex mating just removes that DNA from the gene pool. It is not a survival technique that sticks around in the gene pool. It makes me laugh that the gay people say that homosexuality exists in the natural world. It may, but it is short lived. Especailly when whole species quit being heterosexual. Complete homosexual comminities die out in less than one generation. No reproduction means the loss of that species, perminately. Homosexuality is not natural in the natural world. To claim such a thing as natural is to claim that the moon is made of cheese. Species that are gay do not survive and do not pass their genetics on to the next generation. The species dies off and a niche is opened for another species. This is not considered a natural order in nature. The natural order in nature is male and female and offspring from the mating.

[no swearing please] the HETEROSEXUALS... I mean, seriously SERIOUSLY GUYS!! TOTALLY SERIOUS!! LET'S TOTALLY DO IT. LET'S HOLD A PROTEST BECAUSE SOMEONE KICKED US OFF THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY. SO, FOR NOW ON... IF ANYONE HETROSEXUAL DOESN'T ACT HOMOSEXUAL ON OUR OWN PRIVATE PROPERTY, WE'LL ESCORT THEM OFF.

What homosexuals don’t seem to understand... they want the world to acknowledge them and their beliefs, but they don’t accept heterosexuals beliefs and standards.

If this story was about a couple of kids skate boarding on the churches property, the situation would have been the same and they would have been asked to leave.

@Gizmo Monster - you act like homosexuality is a religion..or cult..somewhat like the mormon church.. IT'S NOT! its a choice of who you are going to be with..its a lifestyle.. all the gays want is to be treated like you..but they cant..because its a 'disorder'. You don't see doctor's studying a class called 'homo disorder 101'.. come on people.. i guess we should have a protest for all the liars too in the city.. because lying is against God's will too right!? i sure as h*ll do not see that ANYWHERE..

jillthrill55 @JiLLThRiLL55 - they can chose whatever lifestyle they want but they dont need to be shoving it down our throats

if you believe in the Bible LEVITICUS CHAPTER 18 verse 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

This is not just Mormons vs. gays it is Christians vs. this abomination.

@guts31 - in the Bible, does it not say 'hate the sin..not the sinner' .. hmm i guess everyone is doing a great job at that..

@JiLLThRiLL55 - You are so right.

It doesn't change the fact that being gay (as in the actual act of homosexuality) is a sin though.

@guts31 - You know.. I've been to plenty of Baptists churches and i see all kinds of people from different backgrounds, lifestyles, ethnicity, etc.. and no one has kicked them out or anything.. because they ACCEPT everyone.. but have the respect to keep their PDA to themselves.. is it true the mormon church will not accept gays? even if they want to convert? well.. wow.. they get kicked of 'church' property.. so i guess not..

@JiLLThRiLL55 - The Mormon Church does and will accept everyone. In the case of someone being gay they need to show an effort of repenting and forsaking the sin, as any new convert must do. The whole reason for the Mormon Church is to grow closer to god and return to live with him again. How could god allow a person to dwell in his midst if that person has lived a life full of abominations?

God did create all life; however, I believe that he does not create a person to live a gay life. I think he gives us all weaknesses that we must overcome. When we overcome these weaknesses we will become a stronger and more understanding person.

I disagree @guts31 - when people say that God gave us weaknesses. While that is an often coined phrase, it is not accurate. We are allowed to be tempted by the devil, but God doesn't just give us weaknesses. They could be natural, they could be our own choices that lead us that way, but the bottom line is God is the source of good, and nothing evil. Weaknesses don't come from God, strengths do. Weaknesses come from the flesh.

ewww when I see these people kissing the first thing that comes to mind is: "HIV In Progress!"

just goes to show @Chaoren - how ignorant you really are. HIV is not contracted through kissing.

RD = Moron @R D. - You really are an idiot. This is from healthmad.com: "There is no risk of HIV infection if it is a kiss on the cheek. In the case of a kiss involving saliva exchange, it is unlikely that HIV will be transmitted. Saliva contains very little quantity of the virus and it is believed that a large volume of saliva would be needed to infect someone. But the presence of sores (which are obtained through injuries) in the mouth is likely to increase the risk of transmission during kissing."

So its not impossible is it! Besides, if these people are making out in public and on other peoples private property, they're probably not afraid to do other things in private. Kissing is but the first step in a course of actions that leads to actions that would allow HIV to more easily be transmitted.

Maybe it is time for a Kiss-Off.... All of the Mormons and like-feeling heterosexuals need to get down there for a counter display and show those LGBT's what kissing is all about.

@Emophiliac - Doubtful.

Most Mormons believe in having the dignity and respect to keep things like that on a personal leve between a couple. They do not have the blatant disrepective attitude to subject others to their behavior.

Why are the gays the ONLY people interested in making "Kissing" in public a National Event?? Knock it off. I don't even make a spectical out of kissing my own WIFE, like these dudes like to do.

Why don't the gays really make their point, and have two 50 year-old, hariy-chested, balding, pot-bellied, unshavened men, making love in the middle of parks nationwide?

Tolerance??? Let's see--two gay men come to a private, sacred property and begin a make-out session that would have been more appropriate for a hotel room and somehow the LDS church is intolerant when they have security ask them to leave and then the men become more vulgar and aggressive and refuse to leave so they are arrested. The GLBT is irrational and each time they cannot do whatever they want whenever and wherever then there is a temper-tantrum.

Sacred property @Sam - how is that property sacred? A few years ago it was just a street. It's a nice area, well landscaped for sure, but it is not sacred.

You're right this property isn't sacred @R D. - But it is church property. But these two men acting like this would be the same as going to a Jewish Synagogue and barbequing and eathing a pig. Not a respectful thing to do.

Time Cant they not find anything better to do with their time? Volunteering somewhere would benefit them much more then sitting around trying to prove a point that can't be proven? These protests will get them nowhere.

@Julie B. - You may be giving them too much credit.

Rather than doing the things to "represent" the community in a favorable light, they show the public their true colors (all the ones in a rainbow.)

One wonders why they fail gain any sort of public acceptance or respect unless they resort to manipulating the system, bullying, crying, and overall blatant hatred for anyone who does not accept their behavior.

Of course, it's a play on words and the heterosexuals are in the wrong according to them...

@SlurpeeDecepticon - No credit given to them. I guess I just don't get it? Maybe the two men that started all this should tell the truth? Maybe I am seeing things through rose color glasses too? That there is good in all people and they should find a better way to fill their time if they have time to waste? Call me naive?

@Julie B. - I fail to find these "men" to be anything more than "men" in the strictest sense of the word. A man isn't too masculine kissing another man.
Rather tender if anything.

This goes against reason What if there was a group of people that wanted to drive on the left side of the street when most people are driving on the right. Sure, they didn't start out driving that way. But who knows maybe there is a genetic disorder that makes them want to drive on the left side instead of the right. Chances are they would always be the minority on this and would constantly be going against traffic.

@footballfan1 - That was pretty idiotic. Go to your advisor at the U of U and see if you can get your money back. Digging ditches pays $11.50/hour!

The 'kiss in' doesn't appear to be about affection as much as it seems to be about defiance and making a point. It is interesting that I very seldom see heterosexual couples 'making out' in public. To me a public display of affection is more for show than for genuine love. To have a public 'kiss in' seems shallow, offensive and insincere. By the way, if a group of heterosexual couples were to engage in such an event I would find that offensive as well because some things are just meant to be private. Perhaps next week we could sponsor a public tooth flossing and brushing followed by a public toe-nail clipping and deodorant application. Serioulsy, some things are just better in private.

You need to understand,,,,,,,,,,,,gay people are,,,huh,,,huh,,,,,,STRANGE.. @Solitary - These "Kiss Ins",,,,,,,are doing a great job of making the rest of us,,,,THROW UP.

Two grown men acting that way,,,,,,SICK.

My GAYDAR is out of countrol! Can we stop with the stupid! Maybe I should take my spouse to a park and we'll have a hump-in...anyone want to come?!

@Sergio35 - BING BONG!!!!!

@Sergio35 - ....grabs the video camera....

My Dog's Gay! I have noticed that my dog has been born "gay"! He prefers other "male" dogs over female dogs! I'll be bringing my dog down to the kiss-in at Temple Square. My dog will feel welcome among all the other perferts!

My dog Rocky is also gay @Ronald D. - But he likes my gay male cat, Spot.

Where is the button @Jules Best - for "too much information"?

all the angry voices should show up to the protest bring your pitchforks and torches and show the rest of the nation how intolerant and bigoted Utah Mormons truly are.

I've not seen bigoted Members @jnuts - I've seen the hate and vitirol toward the church, and members wondering why the gays have to come onto church property and act be lewd, drunk, profain and make out?

It was surely to bait the security guards and get arrested, so the could proclaim to all they were arrested for "KISSING."

I really dont see the problem.. everyone protests for anything they want.. what's different with the gays? becuase lady 'a' wants to be with lady 'b'..and you dont want your kids to see it? or you? turn on your tv..its all over.. sex, drugs, violence.. and that's ok right? you dont see gay people on the normal on tv having sex with each other..
there will be gays everywhere you go..whether you like it or not, they will do as they please.. and you think dirty looks and words will hurt.. ha! please.. find somethin better to do..

That would have been true.... @JiLLThRiLL55 - ... if they had been on their own property or on Public property. But, when on private property, the owner calls the tune.

jillthrill55 @JiLLThRiLL55 - do it on your own property. and you can watch what you want on your own tv. that does not mean that everyone else are watching gays having sex. just cause you watch homo porn doesn't mean we all do.