‘Big Love's' promise to show LDS temple rituals has many crying foul
A new controversy is brewing over the HBO program "Big Love." In an upcoming episode, the show's promotion says it will reveal sacred Latter-day Saint temple ceremonies. Church leaders have issued a lengthy response, while Church members are filing complaints. March 9th, 2009 @ 10:05pm
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Let the gays and lesbos do their thing as long as you don't call it marriage? That's insensitive? You're a low life bung hole.
@Thomas S. - Why cuz he has his own opinion? And he doesn't ask for someone to tell him what that opinion should be like the rest of utah! ( do as told even if it wrong or right.) that's what you belive in right Thomas.s
@ok why - He is told his opinion from the world. He did not make up his own opinion. So if a person goes against what the world believes he is not making his own opinion? If you ask me it is the other way around.
"Good people honor other people's sense of the sacred."
If only that kind of respect could be demonstrated by everyone.
If only that kind of respect could be demonstrated by everyone.
@guitarcr - that if a Mormon went to Egypt, they'd have no problem visiting the pyramids, which the Egyptians considered sacred. So simmer down and take a chill pill.
@YuBanMe? - Well lets see here...since when was it not right to go and visit the pyramids?? hhmmmm....There is a BIG difference between the two.
Oh and how about we find out something that is sacred to you and stomp all over it, then we will see what you are saying!
Oh and how about we find out something that is sacred to you and stomp all over it, then we will see what you are saying!
@guitarcr - I hate to break it to you, but every time you eat a hamburger you're desecrating what Hindus consider sacred. If you're willing to give up eating beef or wearing leather to not offend what others consider sacred, then we can talk.
But just as many people don't think cows are sacred, many don't think the LDS temple ceremonies are either.
But just as many people don't think cows are sacred, many don't think the LDS temple ceremonies are either.
@Howl - To correctly compare the two, you would have to go beyond simply living different standards. This is not about believing differently. There is a difference between living different standards and attempting to portray what someone else holds sacred to the world. Your example would be similar to someone drinking alcohol in front of a member of the LDS church - something that shouldn't provoke offense unless done with malice (and even then it's not guaranteed that offense would be taken).
To show respect to the Hindus:
If the Hindus would prefer not to explain exactly why they don't eat cows, I wouldn't attempt to explain it to the world in their stead.
Likewise, if I were not invited to attend/portray one of their ceremonies (the tooth filing ceremony, for example), I would respect their wishes.
I would also refuse to mock their beliefs. For example, I would not poke fun at their unique beliefs through my comments or by deliberately eating a hamburger in front of them.
See how respect can be demonstrated without having to believe the same things?
To show respect to the Hindus:
If the Hindus would prefer not to explain exactly why they don't eat cows, I wouldn't attempt to explain it to the world in their stead.
Likewise, if I were not invited to attend/portray one of their ceremonies (the tooth filing ceremony, for example), I would respect their wishes.
I would also refuse to mock their beliefs. For example, I would not poke fun at their unique beliefs through my comments or by deliberately eating a hamburger in front of them.
See how respect can be demonstrated without having to believe the same things?
@guitarcr - No, it's a fine comparison, and I stand by it. Is a cow less sacred to a Hindu because they aren't there to witness its desecration? Hardly.
So where is the "malice" in the producers recreation of a temple ceremony that they do not themselves consider sacred? Are they forcing Mormons to watch the show? Is the show even remotely targeted towards a Mormon audience? No. They're not seeking out Mormons and trying to wave it in their faces. They're just telling a story that happens to include that aspect.
It's just not practical to be able to "honor other people's sense of the sacred" all the time because there is SO MUCH out there that someone, somewhere considers sacred.
So where is the "malice" in the producers recreation of a temple ceremony that they do not themselves consider sacred? Are they forcing Mormons to watch the show? Is the show even remotely targeted towards a Mormon audience? No. They're not seeking out Mormons and trying to wave it in their faces. They're just telling a story that happens to include that aspect.
It's just not practical to be able to "honor other people's sense of the sacred" all the time because there is SO MUCH out there that someone, somewhere considers sacred.
@Howl - There is a great difference between not living the standards of a religion that you don't believe in and attempting to portray what its believers consider sacred when respectfully asked not to. That is where your comparison falls flat.
Religions respect you by tolerating your ability to believe/act how you will according to your own beliefs. Believe it, or not, Hindus realize that you do not consider cows sacred. You can demonstrate respect to religions by adhering to what they request when dealing with their beliefs (the fact that you're specifically dealing with their beliefs is the key difference).
If a religion holds a certain belief and requests that it not be paraded in front of the world, due to its sacred nature to them, I will respect their wish. Their beliefs should be treated in the way that they would like them to be treated after all. Something may not be sacred to me, but that doesn't make it respectful for me to treat it however I would like to - especially I had been respectfully asked not to treat it in a certain way.
Once again, from the article:
"Good people honor other people's sense of the sacred."
You don't have to live what others consider sacred (and you aren't being asked to in this case), but it is disrespectful to treat others' sacred beliefs in a way they have requested they not be treated.
Religions respect you by tolerating your ability to believe/act how you will according to your own beliefs. Believe it, or not, Hindus realize that you do not consider cows sacred. You can demonstrate respect to religions by adhering to what they request when dealing with their beliefs (the fact that you're specifically dealing with their beliefs is the key difference).
If a religion holds a certain belief and requests that it not be paraded in front of the world, due to its sacred nature to them, I will respect their wish. Their beliefs should be treated in the way that they would like them to be treated after all. Something may not be sacred to me, but that doesn't make it respectful for me to treat it however I would like to - especially I had been respectfully asked not to treat it in a certain way.
Once again, from the article:
"Good people honor other people's sense of the sacred."
You don't have to live what others consider sacred (and you aren't being asked to in this case), but it is disrespectful to treat others' sacred beliefs in a way they have requested they not be treated.
@guitarcr - I'm sorry, but you just want to create some artificially narrow interpretation of what "honoring other people's sense of the sacred" is to rationalize your own behavior because it's a lot easier than actually trying to live by it.
Somehow killing, eating, and wearing an animal that is sacred to one group is nothing compared to portraying a ceremony on a fictional television show that is sacred to another.
And what, because the Hindus have a live-and-let-live attitude about it? (Unlike the LDS Church that tries to stick their nose in the lives of non-Mormons). So seriously, all they have to do is ask and you'll comply?
I'm asking, then. Will you please not eat the cow because it is sacred? Thanks.
Somehow killing, eating, and wearing an animal that is sacred to one group is nothing compared to portraying a ceremony on a fictional television show that is sacred to another.
And what, because the Hindus have a live-and-let-live attitude about it? (Unlike the LDS Church that tries to stick their nose in the lives of non-Mormons). So seriously, all they have to do is ask and you'll comply?
I'm asking, then. Will you please not eat the cow because it is sacred? Thanks.
@Howl - And you just want to create some artificially broad interpretation of "honoring other people's sense of the sacred" because it is easier than actually trying to understand it. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on that definition.
I will honor your right to consider the cow a sacred animal. I may not live by the standards that your religion has prescribed, but I will not portray your religious beliefs in a way that you would not like them to be portrayed, or that would dishonor them. Because your beliefs are sacred to you, I will allow you to determine how you present them to the world. It is not my place to tell others what you believe. You should have the privilege of doing so.
I hope that you will respect my right to consider certain ceremonies sacred. You do not have to take part in the ceremonies as my religion prescribes, but it would disrespectful to portray my religious beliefs in a way that would dishonor them. Because my beliefs are sacred to me, please allow me to determine how I present them to the world. It is not your place to tell others what I believe. I should have the privilege of doing so.
I will honor your right to consider the cow a sacred animal. I may not live by the standards that your religion has prescribed, but I will not portray your religious beliefs in a way that you would not like them to be portrayed, or that would dishonor them. Because your beliefs are sacred to you, I will allow you to determine how you present them to the world. It is not my place to tell others what you believe. You should have the privilege of doing so.
I hope that you will respect my right to consider certain ceremonies sacred. You do not have to take part in the ceremonies as my religion prescribes, but it would disrespectful to portray my religious beliefs in a way that would dishonor them. Because my beliefs are sacred to me, please allow me to determine how I present them to the world. It is not your place to tell others what I believe. I should have the privilege of doing so.
@Howl - It would be like going to India and slaughtering a cow on public TV and then proceeding to eat it. Pretty sure you would not get away with that one. That is kind of the same as the issue at hand.
Let the war of words begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Ben D. - One of the writers for "Big Love" is Dustin Lance Black, who recently won an Academy Award (all rights reserved) for his original screenplay "Milk," which is based on Harvey Milk. Black has written 9 episodes for the HBO series. If you were watching the Oscars (trademark), you probably saw Black's empassioned acceptance speech where he took a shot at the LDS Church, his former church, in telling gay and lesbian youth that they are beautiful.
@Ben D. - If that's all he said (young gays are sexy or whatever) then that's hardly a shot at the LDS church.
I never watch that garbage though so if he said other crap then yeah he probably is racist or something. What a b@strd.
I never watch that garbage though so if he said other crap then yeah he probably is racist or something. What a b@strd.
@Pudgy - If you get a chance, go to the Oscars website and watch Black's speech and judge for yourself. I am not Mormon, but I feel the tone Black's speech was taking a shot at the church, but in a respectful sort of way. It's hard to explain, hence, that's why I said take a peek for yourself and draw your own conclusion.
@Ben D. - I didn't know that, so I am glad you posted it. He also told them that no matter what anyone told them, God loved them. That was awesome to watch.
I'm a recovering ex-mormon myself but agree that this is not cool. On the other hand, having cult-like rituals that are kept secret is also lame.
@Reason_rides_again - They aren't secret.. they are sacred.. there is a difference.. and regardless.... I think what Gays do is weird, wrong, and offensive, but you don't TV shows out there attacking them and making fun of their lifestyles. In stead you see society pushing it on everyone that what they do is normal and should be accepted.
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2:03pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
@Reason_rides_again - Awww...another disgruntled ex-Mormon. Here's another seminary quote: "You left the Church, but you can't leave it alone."
Time to move on and find that true happiness that you're searching for outside of the LDS Church. If you were truly convinced that you did the right thing, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be on KSL bashing the Mormons. Let it go and please let us know where the truth is, okay?
Time to move on and find that true happiness that you're searching for outside of the LDS Church. If you were truly convinced that you did the right thing, I'm willing to bet you wouldn't be on KSL bashing the Mormons. Let it go and please let us know where the truth is, okay?
@One Non Blonde - but that doesnt mean I don't get fired up once in a while...i don't have a problem with mormons. I like most that I know. I have a problem with anyone who wants to keep other people down in the name of religion.
If you were convinced you were doing the right thing, you wouldn't be so defensive and consider one-person bashing "mormon bashing."
Last of all, the truth is everywhere, in all of us. We all have it already and it is wonderful.
If you were convinced you were doing the right thing, you wouldn't be so defensive and consider one-person bashing "mormon bashing."
Last of all, the truth is everywhere, in all of us. We all have it already and it is wonderful.
@One Non Blonde - You make it sound like disgruntled, non-mormons are the only ones carrying grudges... I've seen and known plenty of active mormons who are equally rude or insensitive to good non-mormons... so it goes both ways, don't even try to deny it.
@Reason_rides_again - Yeah, i am sure you know loads more than i do about the faith....If you really did know....you wouldn't have left it in the first place.
There is a HUGE difference between sacred and secret, you don't have to be lds to know that.
There is a HUGE difference between sacred and secret, you don't have to be lds to know that.
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2:03pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
@saltlakescott - Yeah that made a lot of sense? Thanks for showing what kind of a person you really are!
@Reason_rides_again - I get a kick out of bitter ex-Mormons who try to justify their apostasy with pseudo-intellectual arguments. As if constantly attacking the beliefs of their former Church, while trying to vainly maintain an "I'm above all of these mindless lemmings on some sort of intellectual high ground" appearance is going to somehow remove the guilt they feel for disappointing themselves and those who love them, because they insist on denying and mocking the spiritual foundation of their lives. Talk about self righteous. Utah seems to breed many of this kind. Then, when their kid gets old enough to start asking questions about God they miraculously have a change of heart and find a way to get them to Church...and those who don't should be ashamed.
I don't have any canned statements, and I think for myself. My thoughts are that bitter ex-Mormons make me sad. Big Love makes me sad too, and I wouldn't be surprised if it originally sprang from the morally confused brain of a bitter ex-Mormon with a guilt-ridden axe to grind. Grow up...the sooner the better...for you and everyone around you.
I don't have any canned statements, and I think for myself. My thoughts are that bitter ex-Mormons make me sad. Big Love makes me sad too, and I wouldn't be surprised if it originally sprang from the morally confused brain of a bitter ex-Mormon with a guilt-ridden axe to grind. Grow up...the sooner the better...for you and everyone around you.
@Kougarkid - You sound unhappy. Pretty angry. You talk a lot about guilt. You should relax.
@Reason_rides_again - That's the best response you could come up with? You seem a bit rattled. I would bet my manhood that I described you perfectly and so your only choice was to play one of the tired, canned responses of Utah Church antagonists..."Church members fake happiness, and are ruled by guilt, blah blah blah." I think you must be projecting your feelings of shame onto us. I'm sorry to burst your bubble again, but I feel remarkably happy, guilt free and relaxed today. I just got back from a nice matinee with my family. I sincerely feel sorry for you. Your bitterness is transparent and ugly.
Don't worry bro, you're not alone. There are many of you "too cool for Sunday school" rebels out there. Some day you'll join the fold again. Being a sheep has it's rewards.
Don't worry bro, you're not alone. There are many of you "too cool for Sunday school" rebels out there. Some day you'll join the fold again. Being a sheep has it's rewards.
Maybe God should 'zap' HBO's satellite into oblivion just before the show is to start and let them wonder how it happened....
@Don L. - Who knows??? If God zaps the HBO satellite, perhaps this will be bigger than the "Who Shot J.R.?" stunt back in 1980!!!
@Don L. - The BYU channels from my satellite so i can watch more HBO. Those BYU channels are worst the watching the president when he's on every channel.
@Don L. - more effective if the advertisers of the show were contacted and complained to. I don’t watch HBO so I don’t know who they are, nor have I seen the show. But, I have often complained to corporations about their support of other shows I find offensive. Gee’s if LDS folks find this topic offensive,
1. Don’t log on using your Cable or Satellite TV as the more ‘hits’ the more the show is promoted as successful.
2. Complain to the Cable company or better yet, cancel your subscription. That will send a MESSAGE.
3. Find out the sponsors and complain to them. The church says not to get to excited about it. They don’t want some sort or Muslim bombing of the studios. Yet, if you are offended hit them where it hurts. IN THE POCKET BOOK
1. Don’t log on using your Cable or Satellite TV as the more ‘hits’ the more the show is promoted as successful.
2. Complain to the Cable company or better yet, cancel your subscription. That will send a MESSAGE.
3. Find out the sponsors and complain to them. The church says not to get to excited about it. They don’t want some sort or Muslim bombing of the studios. Yet, if you are offended hit them where it hurts. IN THE POCKET BOOK
@Don L. - more effective if the advertisers of the show were contacted and complained to. I don’t watch HBO so I don’t know who they are, nor have I seen the show. But, I have often complained to corporations about their support of other shows I find offensive. Gee’s if LDS folks find this topic offensive,
1. Don’t log on using your Cable or Satellite TV as the more ‘hits’ the more the show is promoted as successful.
2. Complain to the Cable company or better yet, cancel your subscription. That will send a MESSAGE.
3. Find out the sponsors and complain to them. The church says not to get to excited about it. They don’t want some sort or Muslim bombing of the studios. Yet, if you are offended hit them where it hurts. IN THE POCKET BOOK
1. Don’t log on using your Cable or Satellite TV as the more ‘hits’ the more the show is promoted as successful.
2. Complain to the Cable company or better yet, cancel your subscription. That will send a MESSAGE.
3. Find out the sponsors and complain to them. The church says not to get to excited about it. They don’t want some sort or Muslim bombing of the studios. Yet, if you are offended hit them where it hurts. IN THE POCKET BOOK
@SLCJENE - Since you are obviously one of Utah's nation leading porn subscribers, you probably don't have time to watch any soft stuff on HBO. But I agree, you should cancel your cable--hurry do it now!!!
@SLCJENE - Because if you all cancelled cable subscriptions, where would your bishop and priesthood holders get their porn?
Oh yes.. I forgot. Nobody in the church does anything like that.. ya right.
Oh yes.. I forgot. Nobody in the church does anything like that.. ya right.
Does the LDS Church realize this is a TV show? The things they spend their time worrying about. I watch this show, I find it highly entertaining and very well produced. I do however realize it is a TV show, not reality.
@MnstrB - if you read the statement by the LDS Church, the tone of it tells the members not to worry too much about "Big Love" or any other negative portrayal of the church. Just FYI.
@MnstrB - you may be above the average intelligence and wit level of many sofa hugging Americans who think that stuff on TV is realistic and the way life is.
@MnstrB - Did Muslims realize that a cartoonists depiction of Mohammad was just satire? Merely a cartoon? What's the big deal?
I'll tell ya what the big deal is: People don't understand what the word "sacred" means anymore, and here we have people making "entertainment", i.e. making money off the backs of things that people do hold sacred. I don't care how entertaining or well produced it is - it's a low place to stoop when you have to rely on controversy to sell and step on the values of others to do it.
I'll tell ya what the big deal is: People don't understand what the word "sacred" means anymore, and here we have people making "entertainment", i.e. making money off the backs of things that people do hold sacred. I don't care how entertaining or well produced it is - it's a low place to stoop when you have to rely on controversy to sell and step on the values of others to do it.
@MnstrB - Yeah but if there was a TV show about the gay/lesbian practices i am sure there would be an uproar.
If prop 8 wouldn't have passed i am SURE that the LDS people would not have made a HUGE deal about it like so many people are doing now!
Yeah maybe it isn't reality but that DOESN'T make it right.
If prop 8 wouldn't have passed i am SURE that the LDS people would not have made a HUGE deal about it like so many people are doing now!
Yeah maybe it isn't reality but that DOESN'T make it right.
@swimgurl_08 - I'm not sure your following the conversation...
@MnstrB - What am i not following?
Yeah TV shows are not reality but anything that makes fun of, or shows something that is sacred to someone else does not make it right to show. It doesn't matter if it is funny or well produced or not...
Yeah TV shows are not reality but anything that makes fun of, or shows something that is sacred to someone else does not make it right to show. It doesn't matter if it is funny or well produced or not...
@swimgurl_08 - I don't quite understand your statement, but there IS a show about gay/lesbian practices, also on a subscription channel (Showtime). Ever heard of "The L Word?"
I personally don't care, it's just a TV show. it's going to get to a point where someone is going to write a letter stating how one tv show shouldn't wear blue or red because it promotes gang violence.
roll your eyes and get on with your life. if your worried about people and what they think of you and your beliefs, maybe you don't have strong enough beliefs. beside, that shipped sailed during PROP 8.
roll your eyes and get on with your life. if your worried about people and what they think of you and your beliefs, maybe you don't have strong enough beliefs. beside, that shipped sailed during PROP 8.
its more like a cult than a religion
@Wakeskate23 - Yeah... a "cult" that donates millions of volunteer hours each year, in addition to hundreds of millions of dollars of monetary help to nations all over the country, while still teaching my kids about the Golden Rule and calling me once a month to ask how my home teaching visits went.
Call it whatever you want, it's bigger and better than you.
Call it whatever you want, it's bigger and better than you.
Poor things, it sucks when you can't control things in your own state huh!!!!!!!! Try living in Utah and not being a mormon.
@teachem - Oh, boo hoo. I'm sure its been rough living around decent, conservative Mormon neighbors, huh? You have a choice and you don't have to stay here.
@One Non Blonde - When missionaries come around...I go pull out my DNA vs the Book of Mormon, pop it in, grab the pop corn and listen to the "what ifs." Great entertainment!
@IIell - Of course missionaries aren't trained on debating DNA.... Also, do you even comprehend the challenge of tracing DNA through mixed-race civilizations going back thousands of years, or did you just find something complicated enough to serve as a pretentious shield to your own ignorance??
@barahir333 - If not, shut it. They explained in a way, even the blind could understand.
@IIell - Did they explain it in a way[,] where even commas are unnecessary?
Or how 'bout a way in which you don't have to vote your own comment "funny"?
Or how 'bout a way in which you don't have to vote your own comment "funny"?
@barahir333 - Typical, when you're losing you attack a person, not the subject! That's why I tend to not mess with topics like this. The people that come have no sense of thought, only an opinionated idea.
@IIell - I've, read, all, kinds, of, studies, regarding, DNA, that, inevitably, stress, the, need, for, further, study.
By, the, way, you're, messing, with, topics, like, this, all, up, and, down, this, story [no comma] hipocrite.
Tee hee, wooooooo!
By, the, way, you're, messing, with, topics, like, this, all, up, and, down, this, story [no comma] hipocrite.
Tee hee, wooooooo!
@barahir333 - I believe it was how funny the mormon reaction was to this story. Oh...and it's hypocrite, hypocrite!
@IIell - Thank you. I think you're kinda cute!
[First bet- can I get him [comma] to respond to me yet again?]
[Second bet- (kept "sacred" for the time being...)]
[First bet- can I get him [comma] to respond to me yet again?]
[Second bet- (kept "sacred" for the time being...)]
@barahir333 - Seriously? You've read "all kinds of studies regarding DNA"? Unless you're in some field that requires it, I doubt you've read much at all on DNA. People who have read "all kinds of studies" on a topic don't say "I've read all kinds of studies". They name the studies and cite them to support their point. Sorry. Not credible.
@Marisol - or... it's somewhat of a past pasttime... but then you're special, and you know everything there is to know [proper usage of comma here for llell's benefit] especially about me [comma, again] so that certainly can't be true!
or... I'm deliberately making it all up in the hopes of roping in some unsuspecting babe like Marisol.
or... podia citar varios articulos al respeto, y de ahi invitarte que los metas donde no brille la little miss self-righteous "marisol".
I don't know how credible that is, but I'll take credit for it.
Grassyass.
or... I'm deliberately making it all up in the hopes of roping in some unsuspecting babe like Marisol.
or... podia citar varios articulos al respeto, y de ahi invitarte que los metas donde no brille la little miss self-righteous "marisol".
I don't know how credible that is, but I'll take credit for it.
Grassyass.
@barahir333 - You're on of the missionaries that stopped by my house? Is that why you got so defensive?
@One Non Blonde - I am sick of people bashing the LDS for their conservative values and standards. All the service the LDS people offer in times of disaster and crisis towards peole in other states and countries. All the good they do for communities around the world. Seriously... what kind of person are you when you have to start attacking the GOOD that people do and not like them because they actually ARE decent human beings .
I AM NOT SAYING that every LDS person is an upstanding citizen, but overall as a whole religion they are known for their good works.. so why attack them for that?
I AM NOT SAYING that every LDS person is an upstanding citizen, but overall as a whole religion they are known for their good works.. so why attack them for that?
@monarch82 - Its the actions that are shown by people that are. It doesn't really matter what religion you are in, if you live in an area with a dominant religion, it is tough when you aren't a member. I grew up where the Baptist religion is prominent. Having people tell me I am not saved and am going to h@ll is not pleasant. I know in my neighborhood now, the LDS faith is pretty much all there is (I am not kidding - three non-member homes if 6 square blocks). For those that are not members or are inactive members, they feel constantly judged for living their lives the way they see fit. Whose business is it, anyway? The thing is, like I said above, it happens everywhere with the dominant religion of the region. If it isn't here and Mormons it is somewhere else with the Baptists, Lutherans, Catholics or other religion (just pointing out a few, not saying this list is all inclusive).
I believe the real issue is judgment or having others beliefs forced upon you. People of all religions need to back off and respect others right to choice.
I believe the real issue is judgment or having others beliefs forced upon you. People of all religions need to back off and respect others right to choice.
@waynewill - So, tell me. Do these "judgemental" Mormon neighbors of yours actually come up to you and tell you you're going to hell? Or, maybe it's all in your heads.
I'm willing to bet that your Mormon neighbors have better things to worry about than the fact that their "evil" neighbor is mowing their lawn on Sunday. Get over yourself. I promise you that your Mormon neighbors have better things to worry about.
If those non-members/in-actives are feeling guilty for living their lives a certain way, it's not the Mormons. It's called a conscience.
I'm willing to bet that your Mormon neighbors have better things to worry about than the fact that their "evil" neighbor is mowing their lawn on Sunday. Get over yourself. I promise you that your Mormon neighbors have better things to worry about.
If those non-members/in-actives are feeling guilty for living their lives a certain way, it's not the Mormons. It's called a conscience.
@One Non Blonde - Talk about proving my point! Just FYI - I am an active Mormon. I have talked to others in the neighborhood who fall in the scenario(s) I mentioned, and these are their feelings. And yes, they have had people come talk to them about their activities, It isn't their conscience. It is stupidity, which apparently you mirror.
@waynewill - I'm the stupid one? Wake up, Wayne, and stop fence-sitting and pretending that you're the understanding, "open-minded" Mormon neighbor. If these people were so secure in their beliefs, they wouldn't be "offended" by their nosy, Mormon neighbors. They would just brush it off. You do realize that the "I was offended, so I don't go to church" cliche is so transparent and is used by people who don't want to follow the "rules" and it helps them to justify their actions?! You can still be a good neighbor and not fall for people's B.S., which is what these people are feeding you full of.
There was a time when I was in-active but I never felt like people were judging me. Maybe they were, but I didn't care because I could admit that I wasn't in a good place and I knew that I needed to get my butt into gear and go back to Church...yup, my conscience told me so.
Just because this is Utah and you're going to be surrounded by Mormons, doesn't mean that they're shoving their religion down your throat. Most of them could care less about their beer-guzzling neighbors...unless, of course, the party gets out of hand. Everyone has the right to a quiet neighborhood.
There was a time when I was in-active but I never felt like people were judging me. Maybe they were, but I didn't care because I could admit that I wasn't in a good place and I knew that I needed to get my butt into gear and go back to Church...yup, my conscience told me so.
Just because this is Utah and you're going to be surrounded by Mormons, doesn't mean that they're shoving their religion down your throat. Most of them could care less about their beer-guzzling neighbors...unless, of course, the party gets out of hand. Everyone has the right to a quiet neighborhood.
@One Non Blonde - "If these people were so secure in their beliefs, they wouldn't be "offended" by their nosy, Mormon neighbors. They would just brush it off"
Yea, you know, because its totally easy to "brush off" nosiness and constant judgement from members of your community for years and years.
Yep. You're right. If we were REALLY that secure, we could just wear a big happy face about it 24/7.
Yea, you know, because its totally easy to "brush off" nosiness and constant judgement from members of your community for years and years.
Yep. You're right. If we were REALLY that secure, we could just wear a big happy face about it 24/7.
@Ride2Live - Give me a break. Do you need a tissue? I'm sorry that you've been so "persecuted" by those awful Mormons for so many years. What, did they leave too many plates of cookies on your doorstep? Or, maybe they invited you to Church one too many times. Heaven forbid they just might want to get to know you and that's how they go about it. There are goofs in every religion, but I'm willing to bet that most of it is in your head. Welcome to Utah. There are going to be Mormons! I know. It's a shocker!
@One Non Blonde - I'm done with this thread.
I've come to the conclusion that you're the type of person I dont care to come into understanding with.
peace&Love
I've come to the conclusion that you're the type of person I dont care to come into understanding with.
peace&Love
1:32pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
1:40pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
1:53pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
1:56pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:09pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:18pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Then your leaders said god told them is was ok.
Your religon "accommodated" then.
Oh ya and when the USA sai no more polygamy, your churchs leaders say god now told us polygamy is over.
Wow! I thought you were "accommodating" then also.
Hmm....
2:23pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
You presume to know what you're talking about when in fact your disdain mimics the antisemitism of hateful islamic fascists.
2:26pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Why is everyone so interested in secrecy? Shine a light! Shine a light!
2:31pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:54pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
3:40pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
And let's face it, some of you Mormons ARE bangin' three women!!!
3:50pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:02pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
5:33pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sDDHwV4n20
6:19pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
It's not that the temple is secret.
We regard the temple to be sacred.
Big difference.
*Anyone* can go into the temple, if they repent, are baptized and remain a *worthy* member of the church.
We simply ask that others respect what we consider sacred.
6:35pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:37pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:46pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
8:10am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
2:09pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
4:25pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
7:38pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I went on the you tube sight to see what you were talking about... That was the funniest thing i have ever seen in my whole life. I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints and I do have a current temple recomend and I go to the temple as often as I can. That is so fake it is sad!! I laughed out loud the whole way threw it. funny funny! people should stick to what they know!
9:49pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
9:56pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
12:05pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
1:59pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
5:33pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sDDHwV4n20
10:38pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
11:26pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
8:19pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
'Tail.
4:10pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:22pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I'll say it once again IT'S ONLY A TV SHOW for heII sakes.
Relax
5:01pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
10:15pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
12:05am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
4:43pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
If you can tell other's that they have the wrong religions, then other's can tell you just the same.
Follow your own 11th article of faith.
4:50pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
If you can tell other's that they have the wrong religions, then other's can tell you just the same.
Follow your own 11th article of faith.
5:10pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
5:48pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:15pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
9:43pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
11:11pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:26pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
6:26pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
7:15pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I disagree somewhat. I think the Mormon Temple and the Mosaic temples/tabernacles are quite different in purpose and are therefore only comparable by name. It was mentioned that people are temples of the Holy Spirit, but is it not possible that there could be more than one proper use of the word "temple?"
Angels and God seem to have a description of "light/glory" whenever they're around, the devil is not the only option.
I personally like the idea of a Temple/sanctuary, where things can be sacred and peacefull. Of all of the quircky things Mormons are known for, I think this is the least respectfull to pick on. It's the Mormon equivalent of a low blow.
9:30pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
10:13am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
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12:28pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
4:10am - Sat Mar 14th, 2009
2:05pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
6:40pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:48pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:22pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:26pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:58pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
9:37pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
10:25pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
There is a difference, you know.
1:42am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
6:23pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
It's the same old song and dance.
The showing of temple ceremonies is nothing new. Anti-mormon stuff is about as old as the church.
I have yet to find any shocking arguments, just people wasting their lives consumed in anger, bitterness and hate.
I wouldn't even bother with giving them the time of the day.
10:02pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
All of you who are tee-hee'n over this A) we show everyone what's in the temple every time we open a new one, B) we show everyone what we wear in the temple every time we have a funeral, and C) there has always been two ways to find out what happens in there; faithfully or unfaithfully.
The last point is important, because if you're not a faithful member, you won't get it and you'll not understand much... in other words, NOTHING will be revealed to you. If you understand what I'm saying, you're likely in the 'faithful member' group.
So, big deal? No
10:49am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
12:52pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Thank you for shedding different light!
2:32pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Put that link in from TV Guide and go to Page 48.
LDS Members should be absolutely outraged.
2:53pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Why is it offensive?
It's just clothes, and if they are sacred to you, and not to me, it won't mean anything to me, yet they will still be sacred to you....right?
I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering why it offends you so?
4:05pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
The offensive part is not the clothes themselves. It is the ceremony that they are showing. This is a sacred ceremony that is not designed for the public. Thus, showing it in a public forum such as TV goes against the sacredness of the ceremony. That is why it is considered offensive.
Most people have things they consider sacred, religous or not. If it is sacred to you, and is designed only for certain people, then it is disrespectful of someone to publicise it. Especially if they know it is not supposed to be shown to the public. They are directly doing what someone has asked them not to do.
4:20pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
...smacks of hypocrisy, don't 'ya think?
5:02pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
So are there problems? YES. We can't try and say otherwise. But to try and make it sounds as simple as you are trying to make it, is not accurate and is misleading.
6:07pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:23pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:33pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
It is no more offensive than saying:
"these words start with the letter M"
"these politicians can vote on this bill"
Now I might see offense if I was stereotyping. But I was not as you can read from the context of my previous.
6:08pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:10pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:14pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
8:13am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
8:13pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I know that people around here are used to the Utah way, and I’m accustom to the world’s ways, but seriously, I just don’t get it.
9:04pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Come run by my church some time. In fact if you run by on the first Sunday of the month, the young adults will invite you in to eat dinner with them.
9:31pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
9:33pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:26pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
11:20pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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12:43am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
The fact that the Jewish relatives were opposed to it is interesting in and of itself. If they don't believe in Mormonism, why on earth would they care?
9:55am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
clothes, so it still doesn't matter. If it is sacred
to you before people get a glimpse of it, it should be
sacred to you afterwards. Because it is sacred to you
does not make it disrespectful to show it to the rest
of the world.
If for some reason you consider it no longer sacred to you because and non-LDS person like myself may have seen it,
then it was never sacred in the first place. Sacred does
not mean it need be secret. Sacred is meant to be from within, and public viewing of such an event is not disrespectful, and does not make it any less sacred to those that believe it is. As I stated, if it somehow changes ones perspective on the ritual now that others have seen it, the ritual was never sacred in the first place.
10:05am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Members of the church aren't worried that things won't be sacred anymore, but rather offended that someone would show a complete disregard to a respectful request about how others treat things that are sacred to them (realizing that they aren't sacred to others). It demonstrates a lack of class.
I'm sure you would be upset as well if someone published something personal and private about your life after you politely asked them not to.
12:58pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
"Members of the church aren't worried that things won't be sacred anymore, but rather offended that someone would show a complete disregard to a respectful request about how others treat things that are sacred to them (realizing that they aren't sacred to others). It demonstrates a lack of class."
I think the Communist Dictators of your Church should really stop and think about the hypocritical statements that they make, along with people such as yourself.
You find it offensice to ignore a respectful request to something you and others find sacred in your religion. Well you need to stop and realize how many things your religion has done over the years to offend and disrepect others who have sought to have the same sacred beliefs of theirs honored and i am not only talking religiously, because i think a sacred belief is not something souly held for religion.
There have been Many things and most recently "Prop 8" that your religion found offensive and does not follow the guidelines that your religion thinks everyone should live by.
You send out Missionaries to convert people from a religion they have practiced, believed in and had faith in for many years over to yours, WHY? if you are going to try and convert people should they not see what goes on inside your walls.
I was once approached by a Mormon Missionary and asked to join the Mormon Faith. I asked him if he would join my religion for 6 months that i would join his. His reply to this was "I cannot denounce my Religion" and to wich i replied.. well what do you think you are asking me to do!
Now was that not a complete and utter disrepect to me and my religion, asking me to denounce my faith for the Mormon one, this happens Millions of times through out the day all across the world and you people are worried about a Television Show offending you and disrepecting you.
Stop and think about what your religion is doing to the faith and sacred beliefs personal or religious of Millions of others across the world! If the LDS church would have RESPECT for others and their beliefs maybe they would not feel so PICKED ON.. boo hoo..
The Mormon Faith is just a religious BULLY, Do as we say and do or we will be forced to strip you of what little freedoms we have given you, because you do not play nice with others the way we want you to on the playground. As the church has pointed out MANY MANY times of the years.. no one is safe from persucution. So change your diaper, get a new bottle and things will be ok.
11:16am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
So, to answer your question, it isn't the fact that it will be produced that is offensive. It is the fact that it almost certainly will be produced with an anti-Mormon slant to it that is offensive. It is difficult for LDS people to deal with because we see the inaccuracies, but are not at liberty to correct those inaccuracies, because of our beliefs. Those whose goal it is to damage the church know this, so they continually hit that spot over and over and over. It gets old, and I think that most of us are tired of dealing with it. There are very few (if any) religions in this country who are constantly asked to defend their beliefs the way the LDS church is constantly challenged.
4:57pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Mormons are taught that the most sacred ordinances take place in the temple, and that these ordinances are not to be discussed except within that holy place (holy is a relative term, of course, but to a Mormon, the temple is holy). The clothing, the rooms, etc. are all symbols of these sacred ordinances, and are meant to be private. They represent a deep faith in God to most Mormon people.
To show why disrespect for this tradition would anger a Mormon, I would compare, relatively, that showing the temple ceremony publicly, to most Mormons, would be the equivalent of spitting on an American flag to most Americans.
Why is that offensive -- it's just a piece of cloth, right?
You know as well as I do that a flag isn't just a piece of cloth. The cloth represents something (freedom, liberty, pursuit of happiness -- whatever it means to you) to the American people, and it has a tradition of respect. To break with that tradition of respect would send a message of profound disrespect for the deep-seated beliefs of Americans.
I'm sure you see the correlation. Mormons believe these ceremonies represent something as deep as the feelings many Americans have towards the flag -- their faith in God, their belief and their relationship with Him (the use of the word sacred is most Mormons' way of trying to describe this deep, abiding belief). The proper respect for these ceremonies, as Mormon tradition/teaching dictates, is that they should not be discussed outside the temple (just as tradition dictates that a flag never touches the ground, should be folded a certain way, flown at half-mast for fallen heroes, etc.) To talk of these ordinances outside the temple violates that tradition, which translates to disrespect not just for the ceremony, but for these deep-seated beliefs.
That disregard for tradition can make people very angry. Just like an American flag, or a Shinto shrine, or countless other symbols throughout history -- there are traditions that people believe should be respected in a certain way. The Mormon way is through only speaking of those ordinances in the temple.
I hope that answers your question with something you can relate to. It really is difficult to articulate, but that's about the best I think I can do. Happy to answer any other questions you have.
4:57pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Mormons are taught that the most sacred ordinances take place in the temple, and that these ordinances are not to be discussed except within that holy place (holy is a relative term, of course, but to a Mormon, the temple is holy). The clothing, the rooms, etc. are all symbols of these sacred ordinances, and are meant to be private. They represent a deep faith in God to most Mormon people.
To show why disrespect for this tradition would anger a Mormon, I would compare, relatively, that showing the temple ceremony publicly, to most Mormons, would be the equivalent of spitting on an American flag to most Americans.
Why is that offensive -- it's just a piece of cloth, right?
You know as well as I do that a flag isn't just a piece of cloth. The cloth represents something (freedom, liberty, pursuit of happiness -- whatever it means to you) to the American people, and it has a tradition of respect. To break with that tradition of respect would send a message of profound disrespect for the deep-seated beliefs of Americans.
I'm sure you see the correlation. Mormons believe these ceremonies represent something as deep as the feelings many Americans have towards the flag -- their faith in God, their belief and their relationship with Him (the use of the word sacred is most Mormons' way of trying to describe this deep, abiding belief). The proper respect for these ceremonies, as Mormon tradition/teaching dictates, is that they should not be discussed outside the temple (just as tradition dictates that a flag never touches the ground, should be folded a certain way, flown at half-mast for fallen heroes, etc.) To talk of these ordinances outside the temple violates that tradition, which translates to disrespect not just for the ceremony, but for these deep-seated beliefs.
That disregard for tradition can make people very angry. Just like an American flag, or a Shinto shrine, or countless other symbols throughout history -- there are traditions that people believe should be respected in a certain way. The Mormon way is through only speaking of those ordinances in the temple.
I hope that answers your question with something you can relate to. It really is difficult to articulate, but that's about the best I think I can do. Happy to answer any other questions you have.
5:07pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
10:54am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
11:10am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
12:55pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
As far as "Who cares?", I was merely trying to state why church members would be upset over this issue. I never advocated that they SHOULD get upset, nor did I suggest that it WOULD matter to those who have a strong conviction of their faith. However, I would ask that you try and understand that this represents a serious breach in that tradition of respect toward the temple, a symbol that represents the pinnacle of Mormon faith, and that a great deal of Mormons WILL care about this perceived disrespect for this symbol they hold sacred. I would suspect some have already shed tears over this issue (yes, it really is that serious to many people).
Lastly, I am sorry if you have experience with Mormons not maintaining a tradition of respect toward your cherished symbols or beliefs. If this indeed has occurred, perhaps you can identify with how a Mormon feels about this issue; when someone does not respect (a relative term) a symbol of something important to you (in your case, a cross), particularly when you've asked them kindly to show that respect (again, relative to your tradition), it can really be hurtful and shocking.
Mormons aren't alone in this feeling of scandal when a symbol is disrespected. As an example, I'd ask you to look at the fairly recent uproar in New York City over an art piece -- Christopher Ofili's Virgin Mary, in which the Madonna was depicted with breasts and feet made from elephant dung. This was taken as a slander against Christianity, God, the Virgin Mary, etc. and due to public protest, the exhibition was shut down by Mayor Giuliani.
The irony of the situation is that Ofili intended no disrespect at all -- he had used this unique medium because he believed it would be a spiritual representation of Mary's sacred nature; elephant dung (according to Ofili) is revered in Africa as containing mystical/magical properties. The other irony is this incident significantly furthered Ofili's artistic career.
I'm sure HBO's Big Love, based on comments below this post, will treat this with utmost sensitivity, but they are deliberately breaking with the Mormon tradition of respect towards the temple (namely, the tradition of speaking of those ordinances and symbols only within the temple), and that is understandably upsetting to the Mormon community (just as Ofili upset Christians in New York).
5:01pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Mormons are taught that the most sacred ordinances take place in the temple, and that these ordinances are not to be discussed except within that holy place (holy is a relative term, of course, but to a Mormon, the temple is holy). The clothing, the rooms, etc. are all symbols of these sacred ordinances, and are meant to be private. They represent a deep faith in God to most Mormon people.
To show why disrespect for this tradition would anger a Mormon, I would compare, relatively, that showing the temple ceremony publicly, to most Mormons, would be the equivalent of spitting on an American flag to most Americans.
Why is that offensive -- it's just a piece of cloth, right?
You know as well as I do that a flag isn't just a piece of cloth. The cloth represents something (freedom, liberty, pursuit of happiness -- whatever it means to you) to the American people, and it has a tradition of respect. To break with that tradition of respect would send a message of profound disrespect for the deep-seated beliefs of Americans.
I'm sure you see the correlation. Mormons believe these ceremonies represent something as deep as the feelings many Americans have towards the flag -- their faith in God, their belief and their relationship with Him (the use of the word sacred is most Mormons' way of trying to describe this deep, abiding belief). The proper respect for these ceremonies, as Mormon tradition/teaching dictates, is that they should not be discussed outside the temple (just as tradition dictates that a flag never touches the ground, should be folded a certain way, flown at half-mast for fallen heroes, etc.) To talk of these ordinances outside the temple violates that tradition, which translates to disrespect not just for the ceremony, but for these deep-seated beliefs.
That disregard for tradition can make people very angry. Just like an American flag, or a Shinto shrine, or countless other symbols throughout history -- there are traditions that people believe should be respected in a certain way. The Mormon way is through only speaking of those ordinances in the temple.
I hope that answers your question with something you can relate to. It really is difficult to articulate, but that's about the best I think I can do. Happy to answer any other questions you have.
5:05pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Mormons are taught that the most sacred ordinances take place in the temple, and that these ordinances are not to be discussed except within that holy place (holy is a relative term, of course, but to a Mormon, the temple is holy). The clothing, the rooms, etc. are all symbols of these sacred ordinances, and are meant to be private. They represent a deep faith in God to most Mormon people.
To show why disrespect for this tradition would anger a Mormon, I would compare, relatively, that showing the temple ceremony publicly, to most Mormons, would be the equivalent of spitting on an American flag to most Americans.
Why is that offensive -- it's just a piece of cloth, right?
You know as well as I do that a flag isn't just a piece of cloth. The cloth represents something (freedom, liberty, pursuit of happiness -- whatever it means to you) to the American people, and it has a tradition of respect. To break with that tradition of respect would send a message of profound disrespect for the deep-seated beliefs of Americans.
I'm sure you see the correlation. Mormons believe these ceremonies represent something as deep as the feelings many Americans have towards the flag -- their faith in God, their belief and their relationship with Him (the use of the word sacred is most Mormons' way of trying to describe this deep, abiding belief). The proper respect for these ceremonies, as Mormon tradition/teaching dictates, is that they should not be discussed outside the temple (just as tradition dictates that a flag never touches the ground, should be folded a certain way, flown at half-mast for fallen heroes, etc.) To talk of these ordinances outside the temple violates that tradition, which translates to disrespect not just for the ceremony, but for these deep-seated beliefs.
That disregard for tradition can make people very angry. Just like an American flag, or a Shinto shrine, or countless other symbols throughout history -- there are traditions that people believe should be respected in a certain way. The Mormon way is through only speaking of those ordinances in the temple.
I hope that answers your question with something you can relate to. It really is difficult to articulate, but that's about the best I think I can do. Happy to answer any other questions you have.
9:57pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:12pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Is it disrespectful? Yes
Its not our place to judge them? No
It is our place not to watch the show.
It is our place to write of the rest of HBO if we want to.
I am LDS and this is very disrespectful, but it is a price I will pay to keep speech free. I want the ability to disrespect someone else when I feel it is needed or the right thing to do. If I want and value that ability I must respect the ability of others to do the same.
Would I do it differently? Yes.
They should have done it by just making reference to going to the temple rather than having some variation of what happens there on TV. I would always prefer a route that does not offend, or take something special and holy to others and portray it in an unholy light.
It could have been done with much more discretion and taste.
4:12pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Is it disrespectful? Yes
Its not our place to judge them? No
It is our place not to watch the show.
It is our place to write of the rest of HBO if we want to.
I am LDS and this is very disrespectful, but it is a price I will pay to keep speech free. I want the ability to disrespect someone else when I feel it is needed or the right thing to do. If I want and value that ability I must respect the ability of others to do the same.
Would I do it differently? Yes.
They should have done it by just making reference to going to the temple rather than having some variation of what happens there on TV. I would always prefer a route that does not offend, or take something special and holy to others and portray it in an unholy light.
It could have been done with much more discretion and taste.
4:16pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Leave it alone, it'll pass and go away.
give it legs and it'll grow in size.
Go read the LDS church's official response.
6:25pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:57am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
11:18pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
"It is a fool that is offended when no offense is intended. It is an even bigger fool that gets offended when offense is meant."
"Should be offended"?
well...ok, but you have no one to blame but yourself.
4:17am - Sat Mar 14th, 2009
2:32pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Put that link in from TV Guide and go to Page 48.
LDS Members should be absolutely outraged.
2:38pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
You are now just as bad as HBO for airing that show.
2:46pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:10pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:13pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:38pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
You are now just as bad as HBO for airing that show.
2:41pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:57pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I've taken non-member friends to LDS viewings so they can see what the clothing looks like.
Not that I in any way shape or form find this acceptable entertainment. Mock not sacred things.
3:16pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
not necessarily sacred to another. I get your meaning,
but they are just clothes, and they can still be sacred
to you if you choose them to be. Just because an outsider
like myself looked upon the robes, does not mean they
should lose any meaning for you.
2:45pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:55pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:55pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
3:56pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:14pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
7:20pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
9:16pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
10:12am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
I have worked where I was the only non LDS and you are a out cast.
You know nothing about your own church and it beliefs your just another brain washed dope.
10:20am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
11:50am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
10:22am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Nevertheless, you should know that the church itself does not call for that behavior. You can see the church's stance on things for yourself if you want to, because announcements of the church's position on issues are posted on its website.
By the way, I can't help but find it a little comical that you complain about insensitivity and then call another poster a "brain washed dope." Let's all try to be sensitive.
1:06pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
2:59pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:09pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:01pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I think you've just made our point. TV isn't real and the depiction of LDS (and probably many Polygs. as well) isn't real either. You didn't get any insight, you got low class TV that was meant to sensationalize what many serious Christians believe in.
3:28pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I'm just not sure I understand. Can you explain it?
4:03pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Some religious people believe in things that might be hard for other supposedly open-minded people to understand. These things often times are considered "sacred". Regardless of whether or not you consider them sacred doesn't really matter. It matters to the believer.
Many members of the Church (myself included) find it repulsive that sacred beliefs are being shown on HBO - the same station that airs pornographic movies.
I and many others find it offensive. And in America, the country that pronounces tolerance, this should not happen.
Make sense now?
4:21pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
And lets be realistic here, HBO doesn't show pornographic movies, maybe a hard R at best.
8:56am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
This is American and in America, BYDGOSZCZ , we have what's called the freedom of speech! So therefore, HBO has that right to make a show and if it's about the LDS, once again they have that right!
BYDGOSZCZ, do you watch this show? Of course not, so then why worry aobut it! If you don't want to see it don't look!
You also mentioned in a post above that funerals are sacred and not filmed....wrong! I believe if you look at the homepage of KSL you will see one of the most promient men in Utah and his caskett is all over the news (online, radio, & TV)! Yes, this can be sad, but it's America!
2:37pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Put that link in from TV Guide and go to Page 48.
LDS Members should be absolutely outraged.
3:19pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:05pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Why was a cartoon drawing of Muhammad offensive? Maybe it wasn't to you, but to some it was.. So respect.
4:30pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:40pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
It is inconsiderate to deal with sacred aspects of any faith in ways that cause offense. This is especially true after having been politely asked to show respect by treating things in a certain way.
8:35am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
8:10am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
of expression may irritate us from time to time, but
Hollyweird has the same claim to that right as anyone
else. What is sacred to one person does not mean it is
necessarily sacred to another, nor does it mean every
person should show a level of respect because it is sacred
to someone else. If that were the case, comedy and tragedy
would have evolved as just tragedy.
I don't find a cartoon picture or Muhammed offensive either whether someone else considers hallowed ground on which nobody should tread or not. What is sacred is for me to decide....for me. It is for you to decide what is sacred....for you, but don't assume because you see is as sacred, everyone else should respect that view because you want them to. Not to mention, it is always those things
held in secret that offend most when they are made public.
Why need they be such a secret?
They are clothes used in your rituals, therefore they have
little significance to me. They can still have a sacred
meaning to you. If because I have visited the link, or
order HBO so I can see them in motion, the clothing
somehow loses it's sacred meaning for you, then they
were never sacred to begin with because their being
sacred comes from only their being a secret. If they
are still sacred after they have been revealed, than
none of this matters. They will still be sacred to you,
and they will still have little meaning to me other than
perfectly white clothes resembling something from the
1850's.
3:18pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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4:30pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Must see TV.
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Religion is an obstacle to peace on earth an good will to man. History proves that. More injustice has been committed in the name of gods (so called peaceful loving gods) than for any other reason. If you were "called" to fight for your god, your church, would it be like any other calling? Would you kill for your beliefs? I know peaceful god, belief ect. (mountain meadow?)
Jesus preached the word of love but how many died in the name of...
Well I suppose man by nature is also an obstacle to peace. None the less you stand on your pedestal and look down at the world. I'm sure things look great from up there.
4:23pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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2:24pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
You presume to know what you're talking about when in fact your disdain mimics the antisemitism of hateful islamic fascists.
2:26pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Why is everyone so interested in secrecy? Shine a light! Shine a light!
5:35pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:38pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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6:01pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
You mormons always think you're saintly and righteous. News flash, EVERYONE is a sinner in some way. You cant just go repent a crime and be blessed for it. God cant save you every time. Those who spoke so strongly on the liqour laws n agreeing prop 8 are mostly either non drinkers and not gay...so,you are ones who need to stay out of conversations like this because you are not even part of it to BEGIN with.
Only mormon i like is Hunstman. He is fair and understands the importance of equality.
11:17pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
News Flash...if you understand the Mormon faith then you would know that one of the fundamental teachings is that everyone is a sinner.
If you have come across Mormons that honestly tell you that they are perfect then you know they have plenty of room to grow. If you just think that they think they are perfect, then you may be misinterpreting them. My personal experience of most mormons I know is that the majority know that they and their families have struggles just like everyone else in this world. They do not look down on others. I apologize if your experiences differ.
6:15pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
You mormons always think you're saintly and righteous. News flash, EVERYONE is a sinner in some way. You cant just go repent a crime and be blessed for it. God cant save you every time. Those who spoke so strongly on the liqour laws n agreeing prop 8 are mostly either non drinkers and not gay...so,you are ones who need to stay out of conversations like this because you are not even part of it to BEGIN with.
Only mormon i like is Hunstman. He is fair and understands the importance of equality.
7:08pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
You mormons always think you're saintly and righteous. News flash, EVERYONE is a sinner in some way. You cant just go repent a crime and be blessed for it. God cant save you every time. Those who spoke so strongly on the liqour laws n agreeing prop 8 are mostly either non drinkers and not gay...so,you are ones who need to stay out of conversations like this because you are not even part of it to BEGIN with.
Only mormon i like is Hunstman. He is fair and understands the importance of equality.
4:31pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
7:55pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Besides, worthy LDS people are buried in their ENTIRE temple outfit and they have it on during the viewing for EVERYONE to see. Members and non members!
Get over it and worry about something that matters. Seriously. Get a life people.
It is just a show. And personally, I really like it.
8:45pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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and as such the Lord knows when to make the right moves. (Never makes a move too early or too late.)He does it at the precise time.
9:58am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Normally I don't respond to people looking for their 5 minutes of fame but considering how many people may be mistaken to believe you know what you are talking about, I'll help a bit here and give people a chance learn the truth if they really care.
Are you aware there were Black people who were members of the Church in Joseph Smith's time AND some of them held the Melchizedek Priesthood? Hint, Google the name "Elijah Able". I believe he was ordained in 1836. In December of the same year he is ordained a Seventy and becomes a “duly licensed minister of the Gospel” for missionary work in Ohio.
From the beginning the Church was viewed with fear because of it's feelings towards Black people. For instance, in 1833
an editorial in the church’s "Evening and Morning Star" titled “Free People of Color” outlined procedures for the migration of free Black people. It sparked anti-Mormon violence and lead to the Church’s expulsion from the state of Missouri.
In 1844 Joseph Smith ran for U.S. President on an anti-slavery platform, proposing the sale of public lands to pay for the release of every slave and to abolish slavery by 1850. Unfortunately he was murdered. You know that story right?
In 1844 Walker Lewis, a Black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.
In 1846 William McCary, a Black man, is ordained to the office of Elder. Shall I continue?
One more note on this. Don't forget that in the past very few people were allowed to receive the Priesthood. A very select few people were ordained. That number has increased until now we live in a time where any worthy person can receive it.
Regarding polygamy. You said it was over but guess what. It may not be currently practiced but it also was never removed from the Church doctrine. Doctrine and Covenants never had that section about Marriage removed. Look it up. It's all there.
So no, the Church didn't "accommodate" anyone. It has been the leader to free Black people for much longer than you realize and polygamy is illegal here. We don't practice it but it's still doctrine.
If you really want to understand then do your research. You might be surprised what you learn.
9:58am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Normally I don't respond to people looking for their 5 minutes of fame but considering how many people may be mistaken to believe you know what you are talking about, I'll help a bit here and give people a chance learn the truth if they really care.
Are you aware there were Black people who were members of the Church in Joseph Smith's time AND some of them held the Melchizedek Priesthood? Hint, Google the name "Elijah Able". I believe he was ordained in 1836. In December of the same year he is ordained a Seventy and becomes a “duly licensed minister of the Gospel” for missionary work in Ohio.
From the beginning the Church was viewed with fear because of it's feelings towards Black people. For instance, in 1833
an editorial in the church’s "Evening and Morning Star" titled “Free People of Color” outlined procedures for the migration of free Black people. It sparked anti-Mormon violence and lead to the Church’s expulsion from the state of Missouri.
In 1844 Joseph Smith ran for U.S. President on an anti-slavery platform, proposing the sale of public lands to pay for the release of every slave and to abolish slavery by 1850. Unfortunately he was murdered. You know that story right?
In 1844 Walker Lewis, a Black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.
In 1846 William McCary, a Black man, is ordained to the office of Elder. Shall I continue?
One more note on this. Don't forget that in the past very few people were allowed to receive the Priesthood. A very select few people were ordained. That number has increased until now we live in a time where any worthy person can receive it.
Regarding polygamy. You said it was over but guess what. It may not be currently practiced but it also was never removed from the Church doctrine. Doctrine and Covenants never had that section about Marriage removed. Look it up. It's all there.
So no, the Church didn't "accommodate" anyone. It has been the leader to free Black people for much longer than you realize and polygamy is illegal here. We don't practice it but it's still doctrine.
If you really want to understand then do your research. You might be surprised what you learn.
10:19am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Back then, Women were NOT allowed to own land. Many "husbands died protecting their women and children while they crossed the plains after being FORCED from their homes. The Women outnumbered the Men yet needed homes. The only way a woman could stake a claim to land is to have it in her husbands name, Hence, they figured a way around this little bit of womans oppression by the government.
10:36am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
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3:02pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
It's media..have they NOT done this before? How about movies of 9/11? you think thats not offensive to the people involved? Come on, those movies/series are meant to shine a light on things-offensive or not, you can always choose to turn your tv off and throw it out the door. Maybe then you can not only spare you and your family from the "cruel" and money making media, you can save enough money yourself.
4:21pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Havent we come to an understanding that you have the right to try and change the world. Everyone has that right, whether you like what they are trying to do or not. It is part of our freedom.
5:09pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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4:02pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
What's that? This information is SECRET? I myself, prefer the word private. It is not always wise to cast pearls before swine. There are limits to open hands and open hearts for our own protection - this goes for everyone. Please respect ours and we will respect yours.
11:28pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I just went to the Draper temple and received this brochure that said "Why Temple Worship"... is that a Freudian slip? You people seriously DO WORSHIP TEMPLES!!! Look at what you're all saying on this blog!
Let me clue you in about what the 'pearl' you mentioned was. The 'pearl' is that you are a sinner incapable of redeeming yourself. Jesus Christ redeemed you on the cross for your sin and 3 days later rose from the grave. Now... I pray that hasn't fallen among swine!
4:56pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
7:09am - Fri Mar 13th, 2009
We actually have quite similar beliefs as you do. We regard them all as scared not secret as well. In fact all are invited to attend the temple. We do however require that members be worthy to hold a temple recommend. This recommend is given by local leaders, costs nothing and ensures that we are worthy members to enter the temple. For instance, we are asked if we are full tithe payers, If we are good to our wives and kids, If we keep the law of chastity, etc... So this blessing is not out of reach for anyone, but is reserved for those who are worthy. Another reason that we do not talk about them except for in the temple is out of reverance for the ordinance.
If you would like to know more, there are some wonderful young men in suits and ties on bicycles that would love to tell you more. You can also visit www.mormon.com and chat with someone about any questions that you have.
2:30pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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3:03pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I have 5-6 year old in my neighborhood tell my kids they are going to hell because they don't belong to the only true religion.
You are Man and fearing GOD is not what he had in mind. So you can put the fear of GOD in your children and brainwash them since they day they were born, and you talk about sin, HYPOCRITE!
3:12pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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5:32pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Still the damage was done. I don't know where she came up with that, because we had never taught her that. But like I said, kids see everything in black and white, and everything is very simple and clear to them. If you are their friend, and then you play with someone else, then you aren't "their" friend anymore. (Oh, how we wrestled with that one.)
I hope you told the kid in your neighborhood's parents so they can correct him.
7:01pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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11:12am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Really. Evaluate your perception of the world, and you will find that people don't treat you nearly as bad as you think, and that every Mormon isn't out to hurt you or your children. Unfortunately, some might. But most won't. And I think you know that.
12:19am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
2:08pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Oh, wait. He already did.
3:11pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
you fear your God I will Love mine.
3:12pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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3:19pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I also recall how Mormans don't drink caffine, but then one day the church invested into a Coke Cola facility! Sounds to me like your religion can change or accommodate if needed!
4:19pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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4:16pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Who are the Lamanites? A change is happening that is excluding the indigenous people of North America.
It is good to see so many comments about this story on polygamy. It seemed hypocritical to oppose the gays but turn a blind eye to the lifestyle choice which brought underage brides in forced marriages, lost boys, food stamp and medicaid fraud, etc.
4:31pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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5:27pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
And here I thought you obeyed the laws of the land instead of what God has told you!
6:02pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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11:40pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Lots changed after the old testament times. Under old testament laws you could kill your children if they were disrespectful. With the New Law that Jesus ushered in, a lot changed. Because Jesus never commented on Homosexuality, we will never know his opinion.
You know what Jesus did say? LOVE THY NEIGHBOR. JUDGE NOT. There are so many things that the Bible/Book of mormon condemns that we all do because we are sinners. We all accept most of it because we understand that we are human and we try.
If someone, however, violates certain minor things like drinking coffee, they are no longer to be considered a part of the human family.
I suggest that instead of trying to pass propositions that alienate others for doing something that won't effect us, we try to root out gossip, back biting, hate, etc...
8:10pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
OH yeah finally you dont like the fact that people are against the mormon church, get used to it because as long as YOU force your views onto others it will be that way. As long as your church/cult/sect continues to try to influence gonvernment in this state without merrit get used to it. I used to think it was a joke when I heard that listening to general conference would tell you what the laws will be for next year in this state, but it is true!!!
GROW UP, I DONT THINK I HAVE EVER SEEN A POLICE UNION CRY OR WHINE ABOUT A MOVIE DEPICTING BAD COPS, OR A WOMENS RIGHT MOVEMENT CRY OR WHINE DEPICTING A WOMAN BEING ABUSED IN A MOVIE. IT IS HOLLYWOOD, THEY HAVE ALMOST AS MUCH MONEY AS YOUR CHURCH. I DONT THINK THE CARE WHAT YOU THINK. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT ..... DONT WATCH IT PRETTY SIMPLE
8:27pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
8:28pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Everyone just settle down, It's just a TV show. We all know Hollywood loves to sensationalize anything and everything.
Unless the church has a skeleton in it's closet that it wants to remain hidden there is nothing to worry about.
Remember the "Sacred" card is exactly the same card played by the FLDS in Hilldale and also in the Texas incident.
Back in the 70's the Catholic church had a similar incident when "The Excorcist" came out. We got over it. You will too.
8:48pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Pay Lay Ale, and have a good night!
8:48pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Pay Lay Ale, and have a good night!
10:37pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
It's a TV show remember, Fiction, Or Truth.
So does the Members of the Mormon Church feel Threatened? It must because of all the comments.
Is there something to hide? And if you feel that people are attacking your religion, the More you comment on these comment lines the more you allow your self open for attacks. Sorry but that just happens.
And remember, how many times has the Mormon Church changed it,s beliefs? First Polygamy. Then Blacks could hold the Priest Hood. And my question to you would be were in the Bible does it talk about Brigham Young, Or Joseph Smith, I could not find it.
6:33am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
8:18am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Can't we all just get along?
7:08am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
The best part about the temple ritual is that only those who continuously pay their fire insurance, inter alia, are sealed. haha Religion for sale, and you want a shield from public discussion. What a joke.
God said polygamy was permited, then the President said God made a mistake and corrected it. Must have been a editing issue or your God is imperfect, hence non-omnipotent.
FYI: The rituals have been in printed form for many years, it's really not a secret.
8:37am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
8:52am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Perhaps you should follow your own advice and "not cast judgment because someone is [LDS]."
9:09am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
I am baffled by this Mormon community , that has been persecuted for their "crazy" beliefs
That they are the first ones to judge others, call names, and point fingers, call others sinners, and take things out of context. But when its done to them its a whole different story.
No group of people like to be made fun of, looked down upon, or persecuted for what ever the reasons are.
You guys never back down, We are never going to back down so why don't we just respect each others differences, and find what we have in common. I believe we have more in common then we have differences.
From the words of John Lennons song. I believe if we lived as such this world would be a better place
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
9:41am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
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1:18pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Why don't you practice plural marriage then? Why are blacks allowed to hold the priesthood? Why were the offensive parts of the temple ceremony removed, which included mocked throat slitting and belly splitting. Why has the book of mormon had over 1,091 different changes to it since the first printing of the acclaimed "most perfect book ever written"
Gays are against you because you funded a campaign to take some of their freedoms away because they make you feel icky. The media has nothing but good to say about you because all media in Utah is bought and paid for with LDS money.
I know this is hard to take but go turn on Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh and wash these sinful words of mine away.
I say these things in the name of Johhny Cash, amen.
1:44pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
2:15pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
So go ahead and whine all you want. This is still going to air, the world exists around you despite your close-minded self-indulgence, and people are going to say whatever the hell they want about your religion. Get used to it. I think it's deserved.
4:00pm - Wed Mar 11th, 2009
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10:15pm - Mon Mar 16th, 2009
also blacks in the chruchs teachings are cursed sad lonley little people who should mind there own pretty much! and since that didnt sit well any more they decided oh .. well ok i guess you can join and repent!i had a vision! dont change beliefs? JOSEPH SMITH PLAYED ALL YOU MORMONS FOR A FOOL!AND STILL IS! ONE THING HE WAS IS A SMART MAN TO CONVINCE SO MANY PEOPLE TO FOLLOW A CULT LIKE THIS! its not the people who are bad its the religion thats false!
2:10pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:21pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I'll stand my ground. And if the weak bigots want to step up - I will take them on.
So go ahead an attempt to make a mockery of my Church. We'll see who laughs last.
2:33pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
"A statement released by the LDS Church called on members not to overreact."
5:05am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
2:33pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:37pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
"A statement released by the LDS Church called on members not to overreact."
2:38pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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I'm still waiting on you to expalin your comment of "we have never backed down or changed our beliefs to accommodate their sin". I have seen, read, heard (all of the above) about different things that the LDS believed in and now they don't. PLEASE explain this to me!
5:02pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:21pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I'll stand my ground. And if the weak bigots want to step up - I will take them on.
So go ahead an attempt to make a mockery of my Church. We'll see who laughs last.
4:37pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:25pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
You don't have to accommodate anyone, but no one has to accommodate you either. You seem to be a little hypocritical here, the TV show has no obligation the LDS church or your personal beliefs, and under our fantastic constitution they have the right to produce a TV show that inaccurately represents your religion.
Gays are against you for obvious reasons, you want to stop them from getting married. It's not because you've never backed down or changed your beliefs (funny you used the changed your beliefs line in a discussion about polygamy), it's because you're standing in the way of something that they want. And the media in general is against religion.
Sorry, but there is nothing special about Mormons getting a hard time - most religions do.
2:31pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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2:50pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Troll away!
3:17pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
EVERY religion is mocked, made fun of, and inaccurately portrayed once in a while. You don't hear the rest of us whining about it.
3:24pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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It's also funny how you make this exclusive to US history. If we were to look at world history we would have the extermination of the Jews, the Crusades, we'd have the extermination and purging of Europe by the Catholic church. Guess what?! The LDS religion, historically speaking, really hasn't had it as rough as some others. Sure, you moved west, sure, there were extermination orders. How many died from those orders? Enough to be comparable to the Holocaust and the Jews that died there?
But out of everything you said, VMdawg, what I find most upsetting is the proof you've provided of the Utah Mormon mentality that so many other Mormons not from Utah find disturbing.
10:22pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
3:45pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
It's ridiculous for you to assume that just because of 9/11 the mistreatment of Muslims is somehow justifiable. It's NOT. That's like saying it's OK to say Mormons still practice polygamy even though it's JUST the FLDS that do it. Not all Muslims are promoters of violence, just like not all Mormons are polygamists. And what about Scientologists?? Sure, their beliefs are definitely different, but wasn't the LDS churches own beliefs considered different and "wrong" when they first became a religion?
There's a reason gay people don't go to the Middle East, and that's why. Why would they subject themselves to such horrible treatment? Would you be willing to go the Middle East and tell them that their religion is wrong, and that they should be Mormon?? Because I'm sure that wouldn't get too friendly of a reception either.
2:55pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
You mormons say everyone is attacking you and your sacred church. Everyone is always critical of everyone....no matter who you are or what you believe. Being a minority in Utah, in terms of ethnicity, you cannot believe how many white people here stare at you for existing in the same city let alone the same grocery store-i've been around the world...and i feel it alot more here in Utah than anywhere else that i've been!(wonder why!)
People have the right to be defensive about this but no need for outrage. Why waste you energy and time. Hell, there is no less on the internet. I bet i could type out- Sacred blessings in the LDS church and i could find a picture of someone in a temple. (please dont google that-i might get into trouble now for giving ideas and spilling out "scared" pictures!)
2:26pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
You don't have to accommodate anyone, but no one has to accommodate you either. You seem to be a little hypocritical here, the TV show has no obligation the LDS church or your personal beliefs, and under our fantastic constitution they have the right to produce a TV show that inaccurately represents your religion.
Gays are against you for obvious reasons, you want to stop them from getting married. It's not because you've never backed down or changed your beliefs (funny you used the changed your beliefs line in a discussion about polygamy), it's because you're standing in the way of something that they want. And the media in general is against religion.
Sorry, but there is nothing special about Mormons getting a hard time - most religions do.
2:17pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
2:28pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
You don't have to accommodate anyone, but no one has to accommodate you either. You seem to be a little hypocritical here, the TV show has no obligation the LDS church or your personal beliefs, and under our fantastic constitution they have the right to produce a TV show that inaccurately represents your religion.
Gays are against you for obvious reasons, you want to stop them from getting married. It's not because you've never backed down or changed your beliefs (funny you used the changed your beliefs line in a discussion about polygamy), it's because you're standing in the way of something that they want. And the media in general is against religion.
Sorry, but there is nothing special about Mormons getting a hard time - most religions do.
4:19pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
5:27pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
The Romans would not allow the Jews to carry out capital punishment without the okay of the Roman Procurator, except for one instance. Any gentile crossing from the court of the gentiles into the inner court was captured and executed.
I've never heard of any Mormons killing anyone for desecrating their temple.
I guess, by your rationale above, that makes Judaism a cult.
9:42pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
10:44pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:14pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
You don't get a college degree, no matter how badly you might want one, or how much you feel discriminated against, if you haven't fulfilled the prerequisites.
The temple endowment is an endowment of knowledge, and you have to have fulfilled the prerequisites.
BTW. The LDS church is not trying to keep people out of the temple. Nothing would make the Church, or the Lord for that matter, happier than if everyone entered the temple and received their endowments. And that is why we send our missionaries out: to invite YOU in.
2:18pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
That would pretty much cover it.
(Holy war. Sheesh! You've got to be kidding.)
10:45am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
3:48pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
Actually He isn't liberal or conservative; He's God.
2:10pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Its a TV show, you dont like it then dont watch it. Oh wait that didnt work with alchol in resturants either did it?
2:19pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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2:56pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
> Time Warner Inc.
> One Time Warner Center
> New York, NY10019-8016
> 212.484.8000
>
> http://www.hbo.com/apps/submitinfo/contactus/
3:25pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:51pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I'm writing them, calling them, and organizing a phone tree and email chain, to get as many people to contact them as possible...to tell them how much we enjoy their programming.
Their ratings will soar...thanks again!
8:38am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
3:54pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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9:28am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
1:41pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
1:44pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
What's good for the goose...
1:47pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:13pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Freedom of speech works from every angle.
I dont even watch that lame show anyway.
2:58pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
3:30pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
And noone ripped the secret temple ceremonies out of your hand. They got it from a willing participate who you kicked out or whatever so now they are called an ex-mormon. Maybe you should have treated them more christlike.
1:51pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
This just might be interesting to see how Hollywood views the Mormons. It might be a learning experience for us all. (Not that I really trust the liberals in Hollywood). They're about as kookie as the Mo's.
1:57pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:12pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Bringing in your obvious political bias only shows you are the sterotypical Utah mormon republican, who does exactly what the church leaders tell you to do.
Here's a thought... think outside the box (or for yourself)... you might be surprised the happiness you find when you're not being brainwashed at every turn and making decsions for yourself... I know I'm better off for it.
2:33pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
3:10pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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2:40pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:01pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Me-2 - Do a little reading on the LDS church, specifically from pro-LDS books. If you did, you'd know that the church believes some elements of Christ's true gospel were still preserved upon the earth in Smith's time, and Smith was led to find them, whereupon God revealed to him their truthfulness and necessity to His church. Learning about a religion from sources other than the religion itself, including "anti" sources, gives you a false idea of what the religion is really about. Might as well enlist someone who truly hates you to tell someone you're interested in all about you - what do you think that special someone will think of you then, and how accurate do you think it will be?
2:22pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
3:18pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
I have and I can tell you that the similarity between them and the LDS temple ceremony is incredible.
Either Joseph Smith stole it from the Masons or the Masons stole it from Joseph Smith.
It's not that hard to use Google and find a copy of the Masonic rituals. Educate yourself, instead of listening to pro-Mormon propaganda, and you might learn something.
BTW, my knowledge of the LDS temple ceremony came from my years as a temple worker. I know what I'm talking about but suspect you don't have a clue.
2:08pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:13pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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12:35am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
2:27pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
"child-like" should be: childlike
"Hallmark" should not have been capitlized
"there of" should have been" thereof
eons: you'd better be running to your dictionary before you try using that one again. Your church is neither unestimable in age, nor billions of years old, or at least two geologic eras old.
That little box called Subject? It's for a subject. If you don't have one, it's quite silly to post here.
Skitt's Law has karmic power, and bites the uninformed every time.
12:42am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
oh no! gasp! this is apparently a very formal forum and the spelling/grammar Nazi's are out in force! Oh NO! I cant believe I put a dash in between "child" and "like"! How dare I capitalize hallmark! how could I have put a space in between "there" and "of"?!
consult the Websters dictionary, using the term eon can be used to describe a long period of time, so I used it well within in definitive meaning. When you are going to correct someone, make sure you do it properly. :)
when all that you can do is point out someones grammar mistakes it shows you really have no valid argument. So I guess whatever I said ticked you off and you couldn't think of anything better to say so you analyzed my post and pointed out 3 grammar mistakes.
Skitt's Law has karmic power, and bites the uninformed every time. :) have a wonderful day
2:03pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:30pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
"child-like" should be: childlike
"Hallmark" should not have been capitlized
"there of" should have been" thereof
eons: you'd better be running to your dictionary before you try using that one again. Your church is neither unestimable in age, nor billions of years old, or at least two geologic eras old.
That little box called Subject? It's for a subject. If you don't have one, it's quite silly to post here.
Skitt's Law has karmic power, and bites the uninformed every time.
4:19pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
8:15pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
12:43am - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
2:13pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:29pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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2:54pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
3:55pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
10:51pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:58pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
That is belief if you ask me...polygamy is alive and well in the LDS faith..
3:10pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
3:32pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:18pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
5:41pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
6:35pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:00pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
This has to do with respect of something that is sacraid to a group of people.
2:39pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Quit eating beef. Cows are sacred to Hindus.
See how it works?
(I know, logic isn't going to work with this crowd)
2:06pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
2:43pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
3:16pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
4:11pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Next, if you get the right to decide that gay marriage is sacred then we most definitely get the right to decide it is not and so did the people of cali.
"All that money just to prevent two people from putting on rings on each others fingers and thier names typed on to a certificate"
You undermine the gay community too by saying this. If you knew anything at all about the issues you would know it's not just about a ring on a finger and a certificate. I'm pretty sure everyone around the world doesn't "need" a ring and certificate to show they love someone. If you want to complain about the money that was spent, complain on both sides. The people against prop 8 raised more money than the people who were for it.
6:28pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Next, my quote "All that money just to prevent two people from putting on rings on each others fingers and thier names typed on to a certificate" is just that. You dont get special powers when you take the vowes of marriage. Which brings me to the next point, that is MY quote hence my views on marriage. My whole argument is that I don't get to decide what each individuals rights are. Do you? I am not underMINDING anybody.
Then there is your interesting quote..."if you get the right to decide that gay marriage is sacred then we most definitely get the right to decide it is not and so did the people of cali." No we have the right to have our own opinions, not the right to enforce them on people.
My final point, you contradict yourself. You could have not said it better. You're right more money was RAISED more money. I didn't see any Mormons raising the money. They just dipped in the bank account and lied about it too. But you know I don't even care about that, it wasn't my tithing that was misused.
2:26pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
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5:46pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
Besides, The small number of Mormons who cancel HBO because of this, will NOT hurt the business at all! They will just make up for it when you order those extra religious channels!
6:15pm - Mon Mar 09th, 2009
12:38pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009
When someone does it to them, all hell breaks loose!
If that was the point you were making.
12:42pm - Tue Mar 10th, 2009