Seagull Book No Longer Allowed to Sell Deseret Book Products
LDS Church-owned publisher and retailer
Deseret Book no longer will allow privately owned Seagull Book &
Tape to market the church company's works. July 12th, 2006 @ 10:07pm
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I like Deseret books and I like Seagull books. It is too bad Deseret books cannot stand competition. I think the competition has made both book stores better places to shop. Instead trying to crush the competition with heavy handedness, Deseret Book should learn to compete better in the market place. Everybody would win.
@Buividas A. - Obviously Deseret Book can't handle the fact the Seagull has better prices and better sales. I shop at Seagull 10 to 1 over Deseret Book and now will patronize Deseret Book even less. Now if I want a book I'll have to pay full price for it instead of getting a discount at Seagull. That stinks! I will certainly think twice now before buying at Deseret Book!
@Pamela S. - Or you could go to any of the other outlets, like Walmart, Costco, or Amazon, which still carry Deseret Book products and have even cheaper prices anyway.
@Buividas A. - Apparently people are not visiting the stores enough or paying attention to the ads...Deseret Book has been price-matching for years now. Perhaps its Seagull who can't stand the competition thus the deeper discounting and less than admirable marketing practices. And how about interviewing someone with some real knowledge instead of an employee who's not necessarily in the "know".
@Xarissa A. - I hate to say this, but I know the owners. They are GOOD people, they treat their employees fairly and they are not they kind of people who squander money on needless things. They are humble, honest people. I'm sure these is more than discounting prices. For one, in retail you buy your stock wholesale and then put your price on the cover. Thus, Waldenbooks does not pay their distributor 7.95 for that paperback, so if they want to put it on say for 10% off, it comes out of their profits, not the Publisher's profits. Competition is more likely the case. Segull Book as been getting larger and becoming more of a competition. Is that bad in a capitalist economy? No....not for the consumer. But its hard on the businesses. I surely hope they change their mind. I certainly won't be going to Desert anymore. I'll support my friends. I love a store owner that will tell you flat out, get your scriptures from Distribution Centers, they are cheaper than I'm able to carry them.
Its all about the Benjamin$ when it come to the LDS church. Maybe they were selling the books at discount prices because nobody wanted to buy them for the outrageous prices they charge. Im sure the content wasn't even worth the prices they charge. ---The power of the church, rises again
@Mindcrime I. - that was truly a boring statement.
@Mike S. - If I put you to yawn, Imagine what reading one of those books will do. The mormon cult has a great scam going, sort of like the pyramid scams. Good on you.
@Mindcrime I. - triple yawn actualey.
@Mike S. - You must not be that bored, you responded back.
Isn't it time for you to restock your closets with canned goods, the expiration dates must be getting overdue.
You may want to think about a new pair of Jesus Jammies too. By the way, how will those under garments protect you from a train slamming into you at 90 mph? Most of the LDS guys I know who wear them have the most foul language I have ever heard. I wonder if they think that by wearing those Jesus Jammies, they will be protected from all wrong doing? Seems like another scam/con to me. I guess whatever makes you feel good.
Isn't it time for you to restock your closets with canned goods, the expiration dates must be getting overdue.
You may want to think about a new pair of Jesus Jammies too. By the way, how will those under garments protect you from a train slamming into you at 90 mph? Most of the LDS guys I know who wear them have the most foul language I have ever heard. I wonder if they think that by wearing those Jesus Jammies, they will be protected from all wrong doing? Seems like another scam/con to me. I guess whatever makes you feel good.
@Mindcrime I. - Mindcrime, your stupidity never ceases to amaze me. How many cults and/or pyramid scams have lasted over 150 years. Everytime I see your name on this blog, I get ready to read some more stupidity. Stay with it. Your're on a roll. I can't wait for your reply. Some more intelligence. NOT.
@Janice H. - Hi Janice, I love you too. Here is the deal, its lasted 150 years because your leaders have perfected the art of con. Let me see about 150 years ago, the men were allowed to have many wives. Not anymore! (legally), What guy wouldn't want a couple of women? The church also convince the members that they have to give at least 10% for tithing, and if you dont fess it up, they send you a bill. I can go on. Your leaders change the rule when it is convenient for the church. I gotta say Mr Smith was one smart cookie.
I appreciate the fact that the little guy (LDS members)Believe in God and pray and all that good stuff, they are the sincere ones (brainwashed, but sincere) Its your leadership that is gaining from your brainwashing. How many jobs do you and your spouse need to have to keep up with the demands of your church? Think about it.
I appreciate the fact that the little guy (LDS members)Believe in God and pray and all that good stuff, they are the sincere ones (brainwashed, but sincere) Its your leadership that is gaining from your brainwashing. How many jobs do you and your spouse need to have to keep up with the demands of your church? Think about it.
@Mindcrime I. - I agree with you when you say that it's all about the all mighty dollar, but I have to disagree with you on one point. This is about a business. Granted, this business sells LDS merchandise, and advertises themselves to be very upstanding...however, they are still a business, and not the LDS church. There is a difference.
@Mindcrime I. - caters to the LDS market, but is not owned by the LDS Church, and so the church can't profit from Deseret's business decisions any more than the church profits from Seagull Book sales. Just a little FYI. But, you can still hate all Mormons because those demon Deseret Book employees will take the MILLIONS of dollars they make off of those high-end book sales and pay tithing straight to Gordon Hinckley who will, no doubt, buy several Rolls Royces and a few slave-children from the black market.
@Wendy M. - Actually, Wendy, you are incorrect. Deseret Book is owned by the LDS Church. Deseret Management Corporation, the "for profit" arm of the Church, owns Deseret Book. Much of the profit earned by Deseret Book is returned to the Church every year. Just thought you should know.
@Wendy M. - They might want to re-think the Rolls Royce issue, and hook Hinckley up with a cool Mercedes wheel chair. So, who do you think is profiting from all of this--the catholics?, muslims?, baptist? Do you really need to chrage so much to spread the free word of the Gospel.
@Mindcrime I. - I can see your statements are far from objective, and I'm wondering if you are for real, or another Troll.
How much gospel do YOU spread? How far can YOU get it to go without charging for printing costs, etc.? Non-profits raise money, and countless people are grateful for their trouble.
How much gospel do YOU spread? How far can YOU get it to go without charging for printing costs, etc.? Non-profits raise money, and countless people are grateful for their trouble.
@Mindcrime I. - The LDS church doesn't own these book stores! It's not about $$$$ with the LDS church it's about caring for each other and spreading The wonderful message of the Gospel.
@Mindcrime I. - This was not an LDS church decision. The leaders did not make the decision, those running Deseret Book did. It is obvious you are just looking for a window to slam the church.
@Joseph E. - Who needs a window when they give you a door. I would find it hard to believe that the LDS church didnt have their paws sunk into the Deseret Book industry.
Leaders may not have made the decision, but Im sure they were the influence.
Leaders may not have made the decision, but Im sure they were the influence.
@Mindcrime I. - Got hate?
@Mike S. - Only for Cults and Con Artists. Did I mention that you mormons sure know how to breed some fine looking women. Not sure what happen to all the men, they all look like Bill Gates. Total Nerds
(moderator note: You need to calm down some. You are notoriously OVERLY abrasive and defamatory.)
(moderator note: You need to calm down some. You are notoriously OVERLY abrasive and defamatory.)
@Mindcrime I. - Okay, have you really even invested any time into getting to know the actual facts about the church? Really....do you not realize that MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of dollars are going to aid and charities around the world to help those that are less fortunate than ourselves, DONATED BY THE LDS CHURCH.
Start thinking rationally here. How can you bash a church that gives SOOOO much back to the community? Hurricane Katrina, Iraq war, and any other disaster that has happened, you can be sure that the church has donated time and money towards these rehabilitation efforts! I could TRULY understand your point of view if the church hoarded all the money made by this small branch of the church and adorned the temple with gold plated windows.
Come on, get off your high horse and start bashing something other than topics that you have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge for!!
Start thinking rationally here. How can you bash a church that gives SOOOO much back to the community? Hurricane Katrina, Iraq war, and any other disaster that has happened, you can be sure that the church has donated time and money towards these rehabilitation efforts! I could TRULY understand your point of view if the church hoarded all the money made by this small branch of the church and adorned the temple with gold plated windows.
Come on, get off your high horse and start bashing something other than topics that you have ABSOLUTELY no knowledge for!!
@Mandy C. - even believe what he says. He is just stirring the pot. No matter how sick and imflammatory he is, just let it go. Its hard; I respond to it way too much myself.
@Mandy C. - Okay, you got me, I dont know much about your wonderful church. By the way have you actually been inside the temple? Have you completed your eagle badge in order to enter it. I bet the inside is made of gold and marble.
Hey, you think they can donate a few thousand dollars to me. Lets be honest though, the LDS has to be at the top of every list, Katrina, Iraq, Heck, if a volcano erupted in Hawaii, Utah/LDS will come back with comment "its a matter of time before we get an eruption too" I dont matter if we have a volcano or not, you folks want to be in the Limelight, you can never be left out. Oh well, to each his own.
Hey, you think they can donate a few thousand dollars to me. Lets be honest though, the LDS has to be at the top of every list, Katrina, Iraq, Heck, if a volcano erupted in Hawaii, Utah/LDS will come back with comment "its a matter of time before we get an eruption too" I dont matter if we have a volcano or not, you folks want to be in the Limelight, you can never be left out. Oh well, to each his own.
Boo Hoo, if you can't beat em, terminate em. I liked Seagull Book much better. I hope that Des. book can absorb the Seagull book layoffs. How can they pay ten percent of a paycheck without a job?
Is it more important to get uplifting messages out to as many people as possible, for as inexpensively as possible?
Or is it more important to make money?
Cash is king. It's sad, but not suprising, where priorities lie. These actions may be justified with soothing words, but actions speak volumes.
Cheers,
Or is it more important to make money?
Cash is king. It's sad, but not suprising, where priorities lie. These actions may be justified with soothing words, but actions speak volumes.
Cheers,
@Mike S. - This article on KSL today 7-13-06 is about 15,000 copies of a CD being distributed to people and libraries that was recorded by a sex offender, murderer etc. in prison. For the story click on this KSL URL:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=154&sid=357156
It is easier to promote the bad people in the world.
How sad it is for Seagull Book, and Clean Flicks and other companies trying to promote good things.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=356125
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=154&sid=357156
It is easier to promote the bad people in the world.
How sad it is for Seagull Book, and Clean Flicks and other companies trying to promote good things.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=356125
@Mike S. - This article on KSL yesterday 7-12-06 is about 15,000 copies of a CD being distributed to people that was produced by a sex offender in prison.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=154&sid=357156
It is easier to promote the bad people in the world.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=154&sid=357156
It is easier to promote the bad people in the world.
@Mike S. - Well said! It's hard to belive that Deseret Book cares about those core values when they do something like this.
I have always disliked Deseret Book's higher prices and appreciated having Seagull Book as a great alternative. It'll be interesting to see how this affects Seagull Books ability to stay in the same market -- which I hope it will continue to do, but it looks like hard times are ahead for Seagull.
The fact that Deseret Book has charged twice the price for LDS Distribution Center items has always really bothered me -- why should Deseret Book me making a profit off of items that the Distribution Center sells at an "at cost" price, being a non-profit organization. Deseret Book is owned by the LDS Church yes, but it's definitely not run by the Church -- there's a big difference. Too bad they have to stomp out the little guys in an attempt to make a few more dollars... What a shame!
And how about the quote: Simpson said there are no plans to negotiate with Seagull, saying pulling Deseret Book titles from Seagull "is not a negotiation, but a decision." Ouch! Obviously someone didn't learn to be nice to others in Primary!
The fact that Deseret Book has charged twice the price for LDS Distribution Center items has always really bothered me -- why should Deseret Book me making a profit off of items that the Distribution Center sells at an "at cost" price, being a non-profit organization. Deseret Book is owned by the LDS Church yes, but it's definitely not run by the Church -- there's a big difference. Too bad they have to stomp out the little guys in an attempt to make a few more dollars... What a shame!
And how about the quote: Simpson said there are no plans to negotiate with Seagull, saying pulling Deseret Book titles from Seagull "is not a negotiation, but a decision." Ouch! Obviously someone didn't learn to be nice to others in Primary!
@Rob B. - The LDS Distribution Center is a not-for-profit institution and will sell its FEW products for less than anyone. DB needs to make a profit. They are two TOTALLY different entities and have to function as such.
@Rob B. - I guess once Sheri Dew speaks, the thinking has been done.
Which reminds me, who takes parenting and marital advice from a single, childless, 52 year old virgin?
Which reminds me, who takes parenting and marital advice from a single, childless, 52 year old virgin?
@Paul M. - ITS A BUSINESS!!
Did she need to consult with you about this? I forgot, were you on the board of Deseret Management or the executive team of Deseret Book? Help me understand.
Did she need to consult with you about this? I forgot, were you on the board of Deseret Management or the executive team of Deseret Book? Help me understand.
@Mike S. - That's right Mike. It is a business. Not a religion you need to get all snooty about defending.
Sometimes, now follow closely here, just sometimes, not everyone agrees with what everyone does. And on those occassions when the events or people involved are high-profile, people feel compelled to voice their disagreement publicly.
Relax, you can still partake of the sacrament on Sunday and not get all pissy about a book store.
Sometimes, now follow closely here, just sometimes, not everyone agrees with what everyone does. And on those occassions when the events or people involved are high-profile, people feel compelled to voice their disagreement publicly.
Relax, you can still partake of the sacrament on Sunday and not get all pissy about a book store.
@Paul M. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
That's all I have to say about your previous comment.
That's all I have to say about your previous comment.
@Paul M. - I don't feel like anyone attacks you personally every time you make a business decision, or choose a different direction in your schooling or career. So why must you stoop to attacking Sheri personally. Her marital status has about as much to do with this decision (or any other decision she makes about the company she is the president of) as your marital status has to do with the color of your hair. They are completely unrelated, and your remark was backhanded and uncalled for.
@Melanie D. - Yes, it was off-topic. It was more a commentary on who would buy her books than on her ability to run a business.
@Paul M. - Sheri Dew's personal situation does not invalidate her viewpoint. In fact those of us who agree with her incude people who do have children and have enough experience to see through your poor attitude. The technique you use is called "poisoning the well." It is a great tactic for high school debate. But it lacks logic and reason.
@Paul M. - I am surprised that you would personally attack Sheri. My wife met her and said she seems nice.
@Steve M. - You have mer her thereby making her immune from personal attacks?
Yes, I was rude about her personally. And I meant it. It has no bearing on this debate. I agree. Still. I think she's dumb and her books suck.
So what?
Yes, I was rude about her personally. And I meant it. It has no bearing on this debate. I agree. Still. I think she's dumb and her books suck.
So what?
@Paul M. - Millions of Catholics take parenting and marital advice from single, childless virgins. Your attack on Sheri Dew is uncalled for, unfair, and blatantly bigoted.
@Rob B. - Too bad Seagull had to stomp out the really little guys by discounting everything so deeply that my friend's bookstore went out of business because he couldn't make up for the huge discounts he need to offer to stay competitive by selling more, like Seagull can and has.
@Rob B. - Since when does someone who owns 28 stores qualify as a "little guy?" And where exactly does the money go when someone shops at Seagull? Does the guy who runs that chain have a big house and a nice car? Or has he sworn a life of poverty to help mediocre fiction writers pay the rent?
I will no longer be shopping at Deseret Book, even though its the only thing available around here. If I should require a book or want to get church materials, I will be doing it through other means or EBay. I am very disapointed in those running Deseret Book.
@Ryan G. - I buy quite a few books, usually from Seagull - NEVER from Deseret Book! I certainly won't be shopping there after this.
What difference does it make? The authors get the same commission even on discounted items. Deseret Book is selling to Seagull at wholesale prices. If Seagull chooses to work on a smaller margin, that's the american way. (That's the WalMart way, and LDS titles are available at Walmart too.)
Aren't there anti-trust or restraint of trade laws to protect Seagull and other from this type of economic extortion? This just isn't right.
What difference does it make? The authors get the same commission even on discounted items. Deseret Book is selling to Seagull at wholesale prices. If Seagull chooses to work on a smaller margin, that's the american way. (That's the WalMart way, and LDS titles are available at Walmart too.)
Aren't there anti-trust or restraint of trade laws to protect Seagull and other from this type of economic extortion? This just isn't right.
@Charles J. - Um, Wal-Mart buys their books from Deseret Book at wholesale. So, something tells me this decision was about more than just the way Seagull discounted the products. Why doesn't every body just relax and stop jumping to conclusions. It's likely that we will never know all of the reasons for this BUSINESS decision.
@Charles J. - You NEVER shop at Deseret Book and now you still will NEVER shop at Deseret Book. Way to stick it to the man!
I don't usually comment, but finally must. Maybe it is about money, I really don't know, but this quote is from a Seagull employee who likely has no more knowledge regarding the Deseret Book decision than we do!
Mindcrime,
You say it's all about money; who do you think will benefit from the money? Not only the members of the church but the whole world (the church spends millions in aid all over the world). You can argue that the church spend too much on temples and other buildings, but end the end it is to benefit the church, it's members, and those of the surrounding communities. It's not like members of the church (including its leaders) are getting any of it for personal use.
I did like the lower prices and agree that the decision is a bit of a bummer, but maybe there's a good reason we're not aware of?
Mindcrime,
You say it's all about money; who do you think will benefit from the money? Not only the members of the church but the whole world (the church spends millions in aid all over the world). You can argue that the church spend too much on temples and other buildings, but end the end it is to benefit the church, it's members, and those of the surrounding communities. It's not like members of the church (including its leaders) are getting any of it for personal use.
I did like the lower prices and agree that the decision is a bit of a bummer, but maybe there's a good reason we're not aware of?
@Aaron S. - Whew! A breath of fresh air from someone trying to be less judgemental! Thanks Aaron! Good thoughts!
@Aaron S. - I agree Aaron. Why are people so quick to believe some employee who doesn't have the courage to be honest and forthright. I believe that Deseret Book is refraining from commenting to protect Seagull and not itself, but people would rather believe some ridiculous anonymous employee than the truth. I have seen one Seagull bookstore to sell anti-church books and other questionable projects right along with Deseret Book's products. I would think this would be disturbing to Deseret. If I were them I would have quit dealing with Seagull a long time ago. If it really was the discount prices, well, folks, last time I checked, it was still a free country and people are allowed to engage in free enterprise and be competitive. The mentality that just because it's a "big" store and it should give discounts to everyone is a socialistic idea. We live in America, remember. The land of the free. Let Seagull come up with products of its own that people will buy.
@Marianne O. - Deseret Book has had more "questionable" products in its stores than Seagull ever has. Because they have for a long time carried the New York Times best sellers. One more thing Seagull has never carried Anti Mormon liturature.
@Bob B. - I never said anti-mormon literature. I worded that carefully. I know what I saw in their store. You didn't. That's ok. By the way, when was there a law against being successful and living in a million dollar home. Welcome to America -- Covet, covet, covet.
@Marianne O. - Are you saying that if someone lives in a million dollar home they are coveting? What about having a nice car? Can I have a nice car?
@Andrea S. - I meant that people who have a hard time with someone having a million dollar home are coveting. A previous writer had issue with the fact that Sheri Dew had a million dollar home. Personally, i don't see that as a crime or even unethical. She worked hard for what she's got. It's America. If you want it, work for it. That is all I was saying. Sorry for the miscommunication. Knock yourself out and get a great car!!:)
@Aaron S. - The CEO of Deseret Book lives in a million dollar home that she recently purchased. Hmmm. Maybe it is about the money afterall.
@Td W. - I am glad it is about the money. It is a business after all, isn't it?
She doesn't run United Way.
She doesn't run United Way.
@Mike S. - Of course its about the money. They are getting their behinds kicked by Seagull. They did fine until they had competition. With Seagull, consumers had more choices and prices were driven lower by the competition. I don't mind the decision, but why single out Seagull? Is it because they are in direct competition with DB. Of course. maybe if DB was listening to consumers all this time instead of listening to the money. They have made poor business decisions and now intead of trying to fix them, they are acting like a spoiled brat. they are picking up all of their toys and are going home.
@Jared G. - where they were losing to Seagull.
@Mike S. - Please show me where they were not loosing to Seagull.
They singled out Seagull, hmmm, I wonder why...DB is still providing merchandise to other retail outlets, but those other outlets sell more than just specifically LDS religous items.
They singled out Seagull, hmmm, I wonder why...DB is still providing merchandise to other retail outlets, but those other outlets sell more than just specifically LDS religous items.
@Jared G. - with another question.
Give me clear data that shows Deseret Book was being financially crushed, hurt, or devastated in any way.
Give me clear data that shows Deseret Book was being financially crushed, hurt, or devastated in any way.
Like they did with ZCMI when they were sold to May & Co. a few years ago, I think the time has come for the LDS Church to get out of the retail book distribution business. Deseret Book can remain a publisher and wholeseller, but I think it's time as a standing store monopoly, it has outlived its usefulness. Just like the liquor stores in Utah being run by the state, it represents socilized retail distribution, which should abhore the most conservative of LDS Church members!
@David M. - It would certainly make things much less complicated. No stores trying to "evaluate" the "appropriateness" of every book that they stock. No junking Richard Paul Evans (of all people) just because a character in his book has a one night stand -- like that never happens in real life.
Desert Book is a business. It was being undersold by Seagull Books and so Sheri Dew pulled a Bill Gates on Seagull. I'm surprised a still, small voice didn't warn Seagull this was coming. Maybe Sheri and Desert Book have the inside track on the still, small voices.
@Steve A. - I am glad I don't have to sustain Dew as a prophet,seer and revelator.This an over reaching idiotic move.It will come back to haunt them,and rightly so.This move feeds the anti-LDS hysteria and also should cost the co.money.I have ceased any purchasing directly with them,for sure,and will encourage others to do so.Dew has pulled some cute stunts previously,but this one takes the cake.I have relatives who are published writers,one with 4 or five books in DB right now.I will try to get less sold there,if possible.I tell people to go to Amazon now.
@George H. - if you were the President of a similar company and did not make moves like this to increase market share then the board may decide you are not fit to be president.
Kudos Ms. Dew!
Kudos Ms. Dew!
@George H. - Thanksgiving and Christmas might be kind of awkward if your relatives find out you are trying to destroy their careers...
@Steve A. - I think Sheri D. is a little 'shifty' and a crook.
I refuse to go to Deseret Book. Looks like I will be waiting for stuff to go up on E-Bay.
Down with DB!!
I refuse to go to Deseret Book. Looks like I will be waiting for stuff to go up on E-Bay.
Down with DB!!
@Alexander S. - Or Amazon, or Walmart, or Costco, or the hundreds of independent bookstores that still carry Deseret Book titles at even lower prices than Seagull does.
@Alexander S. - Who exactly is "shifty" Sheri stealing from? Perhaps you have confused being a crook with making intelligent business decsions. Maybe your eBay books can help you sort that out.
@Mike D. - Is stealing from me by charging her outlandish prices and now by being even more greedy.
I know her personally and she isn't a very nice person. This kind of move is no big shock. I won't go into details but her 'dealings with her fellow man" observed from afar and up close and personal leave a lot to be desired.
Smart buisness move? Perhaps. Just not a shock.
I didn't buy there before all this and will continue my trend.
Happy shoppin'!!
I know her personally and she isn't a very nice person. This kind of move is no big shock. I won't go into details but her 'dealings with her fellow man" observed from afar and up close and personal leave a lot to be desired.
Smart buisness move? Perhaps. Just not a shock.
I didn't buy there before all this and will continue my trend.
Happy shoppin'!!
@Alexander S. - Is McDonald's stealing from you everytime you drop $2 on a sandwich it cost them .20 to make?
If you don't want her books at her prices then DON'T BUY THEM! She is not prying open your wallet and running off with your Visa. You live in a capitalist nation. There is no need for the spirited revolution.
If you don't want her books at her prices then DON'T BUY THEM! She is not prying open your wallet and running off with your Visa. You live in a capitalist nation. There is no need for the spirited revolution.
@Mike D. - "DON'T BUY THEM" you shout. My good friend, Read my post.
"I didn't buy there before all this and will continue my trend."
This is an O-P-I-N-I-O-N board. I am entitled to mine as you are yours. I wasn't trying to change your view on 'Ms. Dew'. Your irritated post won't be changing mine.
Relax. life is too short to risk an aneurisym on Sheri unless perhaps, she is your mom.
You are right. We are in a Capitalist nation. The lowest price, most innovative products, and most adaptable businesses win. The real question is does DB fit this profile? Not on prices. The monopoly will always win, capitalist or not. It's all good. This story won't ruin my day.
Cheers:)
"I didn't buy there before all this and will continue my trend."
This is an O-P-I-N-I-O-N board. I am entitled to mine as you are yours. I wasn't trying to change your view on 'Ms. Dew'. Your irritated post won't be changing mine.
Relax. life is too short to risk an aneurisym on Sheri unless perhaps, she is your mom.
You are right. We are in a Capitalist nation. The lowest price, most innovative products, and most adaptable businesses win. The real question is does DB fit this profile? Not on prices. The monopoly will always win, capitalist or not. It's all good. This story won't ruin my day.
Cheers:)
@Alexander S. - Let's read your post. If you never bought there before how is "shify" Sheri "stealing from me by charging her outlandish prices and now by being even more greedy." According to you Sheri has never charged you a dime. Instead it sounds like you are just complaining for the sake of complaining. But of course, that is just my O-P-I-N-I-O-N.
Thanks for the heads up on the aneurysm, but I think that my cerebral vasculature is just fine.
Thanks for the heads up on the aneurysm, but I think that my cerebral vasculature is just fine.
Hopefully authors who want the extra distribution they get with Seagull will find independent publishers for their works instead of DB. Perhaps Seagull should consider publishing! 25 stores is nothing to sneeze at. I wish the Brethren would step in and instigate some ethical behavior. I'm sick of the recent trend of LDS business practices where "what's right" is "what's legal", and no longer about looking out for each other. If you haven't figured it out yet, "Smart Business Decision" is a fancy way of saying "We did it for the money".
The lower prices alone are not the only reason Seagull was a nicer place to shop. They just seemed more friendly and down to earth overall. Deseret Book is a stuffy, uptight outfit you feel like you need to have a temple recommend just to enter without being stared at rudely.
@Sean B. - like someones conscience is bothering them. I have never had those feelings walking into deseret book. Obsessed much??
@Justin T. - So you're saying that if Sean has a negative feeling about a place that he's feeling guilty but if you do it is guidance from the Spirit?
Maybe he just doesn't like the place and that's no reflection on his personal character or concience.
Judgemental much?
Maybe he just doesn't like the place and that's no reflection on his personal character or concience.
Judgemental much?
@Paul M. - it's just more paranoia than anything. I could care less about someones spiritual status, though, I don't feel bad about making non-eternal judgements about someone, thus your "judgemental much?" statement really isn't effective.
However, Sean was making generalized statements about a company, which sentiments, I don't share.
Can't I make assumptions and formulate opinions about his post? I wasn't stating anything as fact.
However, Sean was making generalized statements about a company, which sentiments, I don't share.
Can't I make assumptions and formulate opinions about his post? I wasn't stating anything as fact.
As a person who has works published by Deseret Book, I support their decision to severe Seagul ties for the following reason. Seagull stores lack of professionalism in the merchandising of products. Whenever I've visited a Seagull store, they have the feel of a "dollar store" - cluttered, disorganized, & "junky" and I think it devalues the products that they sell. This is a problem for the entire market as it lessens the value of the LDS products as a whole and perpetuates the prevelent notion that LDS products are "cheesy" & "poor quality".
I like Seagull and would have no complaints if they would learn from DB, Barnes & Noble, etc. about how to effectively merchandise books, music, etc. in a way that presents a professional image and increase the value of the products they sell, even if they are sold at a discounted price.
Have you thought about the fact that this may not be about the "competition" of Seagull, but may be about a decision to control the presentation of their merchandise in a market. And that is the goal of successful companies - to present their product or services in a way the increases their value in the marketplace.
DB will probably lose a lot of sales from this decision, so maybe it's not about squashing the competition, but about elevating the market and the value of their products they produce and sell.
I like Seagull and would have no complaints if they would learn from DB, Barnes & Noble, etc. about how to effectively merchandise books, music, etc. in a way that presents a professional image and increase the value of the products they sell, even if they are sold at a discounted price.
Have you thought about the fact that this may not be about the "competition" of Seagull, but may be about a decision to control the presentation of their merchandise in a market. And that is the goal of successful companies - to present their product or services in a way the increases their value in the marketplace.
DB will probably lose a lot of sales from this decision, so maybe it's not about squashing the competition, but about elevating the market and the value of their products they produce and sell.
@J H. - According to the posts here, the public seems to prefer shopping at Seagull then at DB with no derogatory comments about the stores. I personally have never been to a Seagull store so I have no opinion of the conditions. I just wanted to point out that if DB made this decision based on your comments, it seems it was done so with out proper research.
@Blondie W. - I would shop Seagull hands down over Deseret Book. I don't feel they are cluttered or junky. And there empolyees have always been extreemly nice and helpful.
@J H. - I cannot beleive how you are bashing Seagull Book.
I am not LD$.
I have shopped at Seagull Book.
Have you ever thought that the reason their stores are a bit smaller is so they can keep their prices lower? Are you saying that because they have smaller "mom & pop" type stores in a world of ever increasingly "big box, national chain" stores, their products are any less valuable to the person that just saved 30-50% over what they would have paid a robot at DB to sell them the identical book or item?
That's just wrong. I hope Seagull book is better for this decision, and I hope De$eret Book struggles.
Just my .02 from a non-LD$ person looking from the outside of the Church'$ perspective.
I will go back to Seagull Book where they are friendly and down to earth real people AND save a bit of money on something if I decide to purchase a religious item of some sort.
I am not LD$.
I have shopped at Seagull Book.
Have you ever thought that the reason their stores are a bit smaller is so they can keep their prices lower? Are you saying that because they have smaller "mom & pop" type stores in a world of ever increasingly "big box, national chain" stores, their products are any less valuable to the person that just saved 30-50% over what they would have paid a robot at DB to sell them the identical book or item?
That's just wrong. I hope Seagull book is better for this decision, and I hope De$eret Book struggles.
Just my .02 from a non-LD$ person looking from the outside of the Church'$ perspective.
I will go back to Seagull Book where they are friendly and down to earth real people AND save a bit of money on something if I decide to purchase a religious item of some sort.
@Branden L. - Modesty is not just about making sure that your body is covered so as not to reveal the more sacred nature of it. It is also avoiding costly apparel, costly homes, costly cars, costly etc. It is being neat and comely. Criticizing Seagull for not living up to Deseret Books display standards seems like criticizing Mr. A for driving a 10 year old minivan while Mr. B drives his new LR3.
I also prefer the more modest, humble presentation of Seagull book to DB.
I also prefer the more modest, humble presentation of Seagull book to DB.
@J H. - J.H. wrote:
"Have you thought about the fact that this may not be about the "competition" of Seagull, but may be about a decision to control the presentation of their merchandise in a market. And that is the goal of successful companies - to present their product or services in a way the increases their value in the marketplace."
Why does Deseret Book want to control this presentation of their merchandise? Or better yet, why would WE want them to exercise such control? Is it in our best interest? Does it lead to better prices or better service? If it is really worth doing, won't the market reward stores that do it?
And, more than everything else, what is Deseret Book doing to control the presentation of their merchandise on Amazon.com, or the many small LDS booksellers who are more disorganized and unprofessional than Seagull? or the host of web discounters who barely provide any information about the books they sell.
This doesn't hold water.
"Have you thought about the fact that this may not be about the "competition" of Seagull, but may be about a decision to control the presentation of their merchandise in a market. And that is the goal of successful companies - to present their product or services in a way the increases their value in the marketplace."
Why does Deseret Book want to control this presentation of their merchandise? Or better yet, why would WE want them to exercise such control? Is it in our best interest? Does it lead to better prices or better service? If it is really worth doing, won't the market reward stores that do it?
And, more than everything else, what is Deseret Book doing to control the presentation of their merchandise on Amazon.com, or the many small LDS booksellers who are more disorganized and unprofessional than Seagull? or the host of web discounters who barely provide any information about the books they sell.
This doesn't hold water.
It's funny how all the Church haters have to find ways to hate the Church even more. Get a life and focus your energy on your personal salvation instead of trying to bring others down.
@Craig H. - There's only one church-hater posting on this issue, so far. Most people are not so bigoted, and realize that the LDS church does not own or run Deseret Book.
@Wendy M. - Again, Wendy, you are incorrect. The Church does own Deseret Book. You are correct in that they don't run the company. That is left to Sheri Dew and the Executive team. But the Church certainly does own Deseret Book.
@Jon F. - They are in a different tax bracket that say, The polynesian cultural center, which is directly owned by the Church.
The church has no direct ownership of Deseret Book, even though you are right (they do still own it)
The church has no direct ownership of Deseret Book, even though you are right (they do still own it)
@Mike S. - Deseret Management Corporation (DMC) is the for-profit business holding company for the Church. DMC owns Deseret Book. Therefore the Church directly owns Deseret Book, through DMC. The DMC board of directors consists of the First Presidency, the Presiding Bishopric, two rotating apostles and a couple of others. The Church most definitely directly owns Deseret Book. Although I assume we are just nit-picking.
@Jon F. - Tax accountants will tell you otherwise. The Church cannot have direct ownership of a for-profit business or they would lose their tax-free status.
Try again.
Try again.
@Mike S. - try this:
"Deseret Book is a wholly owned subsidiary of Deseret Management Corporation, the holding company for business firms owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Deseret Book is a profit-making Utah corporation."
"Deseret Book is a wholly owned subsidiary of Deseret Management Corporation, the holding company for business firms owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Deseret Book is a profit-making Utah corporation."
@Jared G. - Yes they own it, I have NEVER denied that, but legally they do NOT have direct ownership of any of DMC companies. Their only direct ownerships include BYU, BYU Idaho, BYU Hawaii, the Polynesian Cultural Center.
It is impossible to own KSL, Deseret Book, etc directly and NOT lose their tax status. Hence the reason why DMC exists anyway, so to be legal with all tax laws.
But does the Church still own DB? Of course.
It is impossible to own KSL, Deseret Book, etc directly and NOT lose their tax status. Hence the reason why DMC exists anyway, so to be legal with all tax laws.
But does the Church still own DB? Of course.
@Mike S. - answer this from their website:
"Profit
We are committed to following sound business practices to provide capital sufficient for future growth while providing a reasonable return to our owner."
and who did you say their owner is?
"Profit
We are committed to following sound business practices to provide capital sufficient for future growth while providing a reasonable return to our owner."
and who did you say their owner is?
@Jared G. - CLEARLY their website says they are owned by DMC. DMC is the legal owner. In terms of tax laws, this is how it HAS TO BE. Why is this so hard to understand?
@Mike S. - DMC is the holding company for business firms owned by the Church and is a profit making corporation. It doesn't matter how it is set up. DB is a business firm owned by the Church through DMC and is to generate profit.
The Church owns and profits from DB.
The Church owns and profits from DB.
@Jared G. - with any conversation in months. I have NEVER argued against your final line. Please go back and re-read my statements in order to try and comprehend what I was saying.
My next step will be to go bash my head against a wall for about an hour or two.
My next step will be to go bash my head against a wall for about an hour or two.
@Mike S. - Much obliged. So if you agree with what I am saying then why are you getting frustrated and why do you feel a need to respond?
@Jared G. - and have you YET understood what I was saying?
@Mike S. - Something about Deseret Book, tax brackets, the Polynesian center, tax accounts, and ownership vs. direct ownership. Nope, it still does not make any sense.
It you agree that DMC owns DB, then why did you reply to Jon's post saying that the Church owns DB?
It you agree that DMC owns DB, then why did you reply to Jon's post saying that the Church owns DB?
I am an author and my book was published by Covenant. Where Seagull sold thousands and thousands of copies of my book, Deseret Book sold roughly 150. DB doesn't push Covenant books, and Seagull doesn't push DB books. It's the problem you have when the publisher owns the bookstore. I would much rather see a division between both publishers and stores, and let the stores sell what is good, not what the publishers want them to push.
I agree that is it unfortunate that Deseret Book has decided to pull their materials from Seagull, but I can't say I am surprised. Whenever I have gone to Seagull, I have been disappointed in their stores and in their service. The stores are always a mess, and very crowded, I have a hard time finding anything, let alone what I am looking for. Yes, I may have to pay a little bit more at Deseret Book but at least they are clean enough for me to find the book I want, and their salespeople are friendly if I need some help.
@K B. - What Seagull are you shopping at?! I have been to LOTS of them and they are all very well lit, have LOTS of products to sell and if they are crowded...it's with Customers that have migrated from Deseret Book! They do have sale tables that they put out with VERY inexpensive, good quality products...but hey...good product, lower price, crowded aisle with table vs. empty store, stuffy employees, higher prices?! I'll take the crowded aisle!
I've never really liked Deseret book. They really need to change their motto to "Deseret Book - We'll sell you the Gospel in about an hour." I believe that would make what Deseret Book does a Priestcraft. Guess I'll be avoiding Deseret Book even more.
@Billy B. - Are you accusing President Hinckley, Elder Eyring, Elder Holland, Pres. Monson, Pres. Faust, Elder Packer, et al. of priestcraft for publishing with Deseret Book? I'd love to hear what they would have to say about your accusation.
@Billy B. - As I mentioned earlier, anything that you need you can get from the church directly or from a distribution center. Ordinances don't depend on shopping at Deseret Book. Salvation doesn't depend on shopping at Deseret Book. Deseret Book isn't selling you "the Gospel".
One less reason to shop at Deseret Book. Thanks for killing off you competition.
More and more every day religious fundamentalists try to run the world, and the battles between them are destroying it.
It's cheaper and far more enlightening to be an atheist. Better reading, lower prices and less guilt.
Deseret Book is all about the money. I think their books and cds are EXTREMELY overpriced. I prefer Seagull Book over DB anyday.
So is DB going pull their stuff out of Walmart too?
Talk about greedy......
So is DB going pull their stuff out of Walmart too?
Talk about greedy......
I don't care because I don't like reading fiction.
From a business standpoint, Seagull book has only stayed in business all these years because DB sold their own items cheaper than DB sold them.
Now, Deseret Book finally got its act together and made a smart business move.
Its not the gospel folks. Its business.
Now, Deseret Book finally got its act together and made a smart business move.
Its not the gospel folks. Its business.
Companies discontinue sales and pick up other sales all the time. Do we have a news bulletin every time a company makes a business decision? NO!
What Deseret Book does is strictly an internal business decision. I don't buy anything there, but whatever their decisions are, are none of my business.
What Deseret Book does is strictly an internal business decision. I don't buy anything there, but whatever their decisions are, are none of my business.
Desert Book is going to get a severe black eye over their decision. They have THE market for LDS publications. And they are very expensive. Include me with others who are headed for the exit door...
I don't know why anybody would buy a book anyway. Just go to the library and check it out. Then it doesn't clutter up your house when you're done with it and you're $15 richer.
Wow! Brutal. I am LDS, and have to say that this is a totally mean thing to do. I guess bussiness is bussiness, but to slam Seagull Books like that is amazing. This move has probably brought this bussiness down. I wonder if this is the intended result. I know certain LDS members in the IHC pharmacy department who can behave in this fashion.
It's a business for goodness sake!! Why would I create a widget and sell it at my store then have my competitor sell MY widget for a discounted price? That doesn't make any sense!!
Get over it, people!!
Get over it, people!!
@Brian A. - I agree 100 percent. They are in business to make a profit. They are entitled to do that!!! If they are going to stay solvent, they NEED to do that.
Deseret Book should change their name to Deseret Crook. Absolutely amazing! I am a very active member of the church and this move by Deseret Crook makes me sick! My days of shopping there are over!
@Ryan H. - your days of shopping there were already over. What part of them wanting to make a profit bothers you?
How about the fact that their merchandise sold to Seagull and then in turn sold to customers at a discount rate actually kept Seagull in business long after they should have been?
How about the fact that their merchandise sold to Seagull and then in turn sold to customers at a discount rate actually kept Seagull in business long after they should have been?
@Mike S. - Do you work for Deseret Book? Competition benefits the consumer. It is only because of the competition that Deseret Book decided to try out their little frequent shopper whatever discount program and since that isn't working they are just muscling out Seagull...
@Jared G. - Not that Seagull doesn't undercut them on prices, they do not have to charge so much to make back their profit. I believe that prices will actually drop.
It is an economics argument that we will wait to see an answer to.
Plus, your argument ONLY works if there were no other viable alternatives for people to pick up LDS books. There are plenty of other places.
It is an economics argument that we will wait to see an answer to.
Plus, your argument ONLY works if there were no other viable alternatives for people to pick up LDS books. There are plenty of other places.
@Mike S. - Economics is not waiting for something to happen to see if it works. Prices do not drop when competition is taken out.
DB has singled out Seagull bucause they are direct competitors. Seagull is different that Wal-mart, etc.
DB has singled out Seagull bucause they are direct competitors. Seagull is different that Wal-mart, etc.
I rarely shop at Deseret Book. Not just because of their prices. I could be in their store for thirty minutes and never see a clerk. You walk into Seagull Book and there is always a friendly face to greet you, to help you.
Sheri Dew's book "If Life Were Easy, It Wouldn't be Hard (and Other Reassuring Truths)" has new meaning this morning.
Hang in there Seagull Book.
Sheri Dew's book "If Life Were Easy, It Wouldn't be Hard (and Other Reassuring Truths)" has new meaning this morning.
Hang in there Seagull Book.
To sell inspiration for anything more than the cost of publishing and distribution ( not retail ) is priestcraft to me. If what is being said is really important inspired material it should be released by the church in the magazines it publishes.
@Al M. - So the author/artist who spent years and hundreds of hours carefully crafting the book/music should receive nothing for their hard work? Better rethink your definition....
Just because a book or music talks about inspiring things doesn't mean the words just fell on to the page from nowhere. It took a lot of hard work, sweat and tears to put them there.
Just because a book or music talks about inspiring things doesn't mean the words just fell on to the page from nowhere. It took a lot of hard work, sweat and tears to put them there.
I have heard this all my life. I am LDS and have lived in Salt Lake City for 30 years. I am a Financial Broker within a large firm and I believe in doing the right thing at all times.
I do have to say that the following quote, "The Gospel is perfect, It's members only strive to be", which is the typical answer that is given to the question, "Why is so-and-so not doing what is right?", is a load of crap and an easy cop-out.
When the topic of marketing came up, I had to voice my opinion. The LDS church is keen on marketing ploys. It begins at a young age in primary class up through the time when the individual is called on a mission to serve the church for free and market its views. This is a lifelong adventure of marketing for somebody who grows up within the LDS religion. How a book looks on a shelf is not selling these particular books. Word of mouth sells the books.
Bottom line is... Word of mouth was saying Seagul had lower prices. Deseret Book did not like this, obviously. So they took the appropriate steps to remedy the situation. Is it right? On a business standpoint, yes. Does it reflect negatively on the LDS church? Yes. Are they going to give a "cop-out" answer as to why this happened? Of course. It saves face and keeps judging eyes at bay. Well, at least they think so. It only reflects poorly on the church and this saddens me.
Yes, in an overall view, the LDS church is going to be ridiculed for the decision of Deseret Book to make more money.
I will no longer buy at Deseret Book as I always have. It is closest to where I live and now I will spend a little extra to drive across town.
I do have to say that the following quote, "The Gospel is perfect, It's members only strive to be", which is the typical answer that is given to the question, "Why is so-and-so not doing what is right?", is a load of crap and an easy cop-out.
When the topic of marketing came up, I had to voice my opinion. The LDS church is keen on marketing ploys. It begins at a young age in primary class up through the time when the individual is called on a mission to serve the church for free and market its views. This is a lifelong adventure of marketing for somebody who grows up within the LDS religion. How a book looks on a shelf is not selling these particular books. Word of mouth sells the books.
Bottom line is... Word of mouth was saying Seagul had lower prices. Deseret Book did not like this, obviously. So they took the appropriate steps to remedy the situation. Is it right? On a business standpoint, yes. Does it reflect negatively on the LDS church? Yes. Are they going to give a "cop-out" answer as to why this happened? Of course. It saves face and keeps judging eyes at bay. Well, at least they think so. It only reflects poorly on the church and this saddens me.
Yes, in an overall view, the LDS church is going to be ridiculed for the decision of Deseret Book to make more money.
I will no longer buy at Deseret Book as I always have. It is closest to where I live and now I will spend a little extra to drive across town.
@Mike S. - Nice retort, Mike. It was excellent the way you addressed every point Joshua made and crafted a well-formed, helpful answer.
It's good to see that you aren't reverting to ad hominem argumants by calling people stupid and insane to diffuse their observations and opinions.
It's good to see that you aren't reverting to ad hominem argumants by calling people stupid and insane to diffuse their observations and opinions.
@Joshua H. - If you think you have been brainwashed as a child, it's a wonder that you find the desire to shop at Deseret Book or Seagull. I think you need to focus a little bit more on you and worry less about what's going on in the marketplace.
@Melanie D. - Melanie... Joshua didn't mention having been brainwashed.
Why is it that if anyone disagrees with anything any entity remotely related to the LDS church, they must have some personal issue they need to work out. Maybe their beef with Deseret Book is ligit.
It sounds to me like many of the people posting that they disagree with this decision are actually in Deseret Book's market demographic. If so, then it would be foolish of them to simply dismiss their grumblings as a shortcoming of the consumer.
A good business never blames the customer for their bad practices. This is true of every business from book stores to churches.
Why is it that if anyone disagrees with anything any entity remotely related to the LDS church, they must have some personal issue they need to work out. Maybe their beef with Deseret Book is ligit.
It sounds to me like many of the people posting that they disagree with this decision are actually in Deseret Book's market demographic. If so, then it would be foolish of them to simply dismiss their grumblings as a shortcoming of the consumer.
A good business never blames the customer for their bad practices. This is true of every business from book stores to churches.
@Melanie D. - Who said anything about brainwashing. If that is how you see it, maybe you should re-evaluate who "has problems". You cannot be brainwashed if you have never known anything different. It is simply a reality.
-- Always leave it up to the readers to take things out of context. :)
-- Always leave it up to the readers to take things out of context. :)
Deseret Book has been 'Price Matching' for years. No one has had to pay more at Deseret Book than ANYWHERE else. If you bother to check the facts, you would know this...
@Elaine B. - Have you ever really checked? Seagull always beats there prices and you don't have to ask them. Deseret only discounts a few products and you have to ask them to match Seagull prices. Seagull is setting the standard on prices!
I too don't shop at Deseret Book because of its prices. Keeping Seagull Book from distributing it's products will now deprive me of reading books written by many authors including general authorities because I will not buy from Deseret Book. I will not support a business that functions as is being suggested by Deseret Book. I'm sure Deseret Book is taking a hit because people prefer to shop at Seagull Book but if Seagull Book can sell the products at a discounted price and still make sufficient to stay in business then Deseret Book should be able to do the same. This decision will be their loss. I can always go to the local library and see if they have it if I really want to read the books.
You people who want to make this about the church are biased, bigoted, idiots. You people who think that Deseret Book overcharges and that this is all about money are also idiots and have probably never successfully run a business in your life.
Every time I have shopped at Deseret Book they have MATCHED the prices from the competition, including Seagull's! The Deseret Book Stores have been very pleasant places to shop and they have retro applied savings on books that went on sale after I purchased them earlier at higher prices. Their sales staff have been very friendly and most helpful.
When I have gone to Seagull, I have had to wait and wait for any help whatever, and once, just to test the situation, I decided that after 30 minutes of not being asked if I needed anything (which I did) I simply went three blocks away and purchased the book at Deseret. I don't think the busy-body clerks who chatted endlessly with every female customer even knew I was in the store. And if you want to know which store to avoid, I'll post it later, if requested. After everyone left and I was the ONLY customer, there was still no offer for help. I decided they could use some training, but felt that saying anything would be like talking to a brick wall----so I passed up the opportunity to help them see they had a problem. Too bad for them... Not only did Seagull have warehouse prices, they seem to have warehouse mentality when it comes to customer service. They lost my business due to the fact that they didn't "want" my business.
The arguments about Church government and other functions in this thread are simply not the issue. It's just another excuse to "bash" the Church. If you don't like Deseret Book, GET OVER IT! Those of you who don't want to shop at Deseret Book are free to shop at Wal-Mart or somewhere else for cheap books.
When I have gone to Seagull, I have had to wait and wait for any help whatever, and once, just to test the situation, I decided that after 30 minutes of not being asked if I needed anything (which I did) I simply went three blocks away and purchased the book at Deseret. I don't think the busy-body clerks who chatted endlessly with every female customer even knew I was in the store. And if you want to know which store to avoid, I'll post it later, if requested. After everyone left and I was the ONLY customer, there was still no offer for help. I decided they could use some training, but felt that saying anything would be like talking to a brick wall----so I passed up the opportunity to help them see they had a problem. Too bad for them... Not only did Seagull have warehouse prices, they seem to have warehouse mentality when it comes to customer service. They lost my business due to the fact that they didn't "want" my business.
The arguments about Church government and other functions in this thread are simply not the issue. It's just another excuse to "bash" the Church. If you don't like Deseret Book, GET OVER IT! Those of you who don't want to shop at Deseret Book are free to shop at Wal-Mart or somewhere else for cheap books.
@P H. - You're sounding a bit acidic today. Personally I don't care. I outgrew such childish drivel years ago. This isn't about church and government. It is about a business (LDS inc.) deciding what is best for them from a profit standpoint. I love it whenever the snake rises and shows it's fangs and venom. All the solemn and patronizing conference talks can't compensate for these exposures of pure greed and avarice. And I say these things in the name of a good merlot.
@David S. - the one about "not caring," just before you comment about the Church being a venomous snake and conference talks being patronizing.
Me thinks you protest too much to claim you have outgrown "such childish drivel."
Hope you feel better.
Me thinks you protest too much to claim you have outgrown "such childish drivel."
Hope you feel better.
@P H. - I don't care how the church markets it's products. Most of the stuff in Deseret Book is for intellectual children. For example, the history section is so limited and the content of those books is so watered down, that most members have no idea about important events in their history (reading Mormon history is usually the first step towards apostasy). I am amused when the church shows itself for what it is, just another business. Do I care about the LDS Church? Yeah, I suppose, since most of my family is still stuck in it's clenches. Do I care how the church markets it's mindless drivel? Not really. Am I amused when the church shows it's true stripes? Absolutely.
It sounds like management at Deseret Book knows how to run a business. What a great business decision! I applaud them for this bold move. For those of you whining about it being all about the money, well, duh! Deseret Book is a business. A FOR PROFIT business. Although there are a lot of spiritual side effects that stem from the great products DB sells, the bottom line is they are a business who has the responsibility to earn a profit, a part of which they return to the Church. And the argument that, "isn't it more important to get an uplifting message to as many people as possible" simply doesn't make sense. Those that bought Deseret Book products at Seagull can still get those products. If they don't want to shop at Deseret Book to get them, then they can go to WalMart or wherever else they want, including online, to buy them. This decision isn't curtailing the number of people who can get an "uplifting message." Give me a break.
I for one am glad to know that the Church has smart businessmen and women running their FOR PROFIT businesses.
I for one am glad to know that the Church has smart businessmen and women running their FOR PROFIT businesses.
I am constantly amazed at how quick people are to jump to conclusions and insist they know the whole story when all they've heard/read is a 30-second clip on the matter. I agree with "Aaron," it is likely that there is more to the story than any of us know.
So, while everyone who loves the disheveled atmosphere and the blaring yellow stickers of Seagull Book is crying, I will gladly take my shopping to the comfortable atmosphere of the Deseret Book stores (where they have always given me a price match with Seagull and everyone else anyway - but don't worry "Mindcrime" they are probably just out to get us with their tricky little schemes.) So I say buck up everyone and stop your crying. We don't know the whole story, and life will go on for everyone, with or without the yellow stickers.
So, while everyone who loves the disheveled atmosphere and the blaring yellow stickers of Seagull Book is crying, I will gladly take my shopping to the comfortable atmosphere of the Deseret Book stores (where they have always given me a price match with Seagull and everyone else anyway - but don't worry "Mindcrime" they are probably just out to get us with their tricky little schemes.) So I say buck up everyone and stop your crying. We don't know the whole story, and life will go on for everyone, with or without the yellow stickers.
It was an odd relationship in the first place. In a normal business situation, why would you sell your products (wholesale) to your competition? (Especially if their retail stores are next to yours and you know they are going to sell your products at a discount).
Also, Deseret Book doesn't sell any products that any LDS church member *needs*. Any church materials that you need can be bought (at cost) at the distribution center.
Also, Deseret Book doesn't sell any products that any LDS church member *needs*. Any church materials that you need can be bought (at cost) at the distribution center.
If anyone knew how retail was run would know that the distributer only charges a set price to various venders ie. Then what ever price the vender chooses to sell it at is what they make as profit. If they choose to sell it for less then they make less. Its not up to Deseret Book to decide for Seagull how much to charge for the product. And why does Deseret Book charge what they do for Distribution items. Because they have bills to pay period. (They do match ANY price, even Distribution items!)
Many of you might think that I am defending Deseret Book, Maybe I am, I used to work for them. I do shop more often at Seagull now though. I too am saddened that Deseret Book will no longer sell their books at Seagull but it is probably because of "merchandising" which usually means how they display and "sell" the items like is mentioned in the story. They are a retailer just as Seagull is a retailer they are both out to make money. If Deseret Book thinks that it can make more money by pulling their product from Seagull That is a decision that they have to stand by. I still can't figure that one out because it stands to reason that the more people that sees the product the more you will benefit from the sale of that product And since people do shop at other places than just Deseret Book wouldn't you want it "everywhere"?
Many of you might think that I am defending Deseret Book, Maybe I am, I used to work for them. I do shop more often at Seagull now though. I too am saddened that Deseret Book will no longer sell their books at Seagull but it is probably because of "merchandising" which usually means how they display and "sell" the items like is mentioned in the story. They are a retailer just as Seagull is a retailer they are both out to make money. If Deseret Book thinks that it can make more money by pulling their product from Seagull That is a decision that they have to stand by. I still can't figure that one out because it stands to reason that the more people that sees the product the more you will benefit from the sale of that product And since people do shop at other places than just Deseret Book wouldn't you want it "everywhere"?
I have been shopping at Seagull Book for years because of their lower prices. Since when is making a profit, higher profit is a concern for the church. OK I know the church is somewhat out of the picture, but what bugs me here is people making a profit or living off of the church.
Did Jesus not kick the money mongers out of the temple?
It bugs when people try to make money off of their ward members and book sellers who do the same....guess I am going to buy church books anymore.
Did Jesus not kick the money mongers out of the temple?
It bugs when people try to make money off of their ward members and book sellers who do the same....guess I am going to buy church books anymore.
@Terry M. - where the church is in this? If I remember right, the Church had NOTHING to do with this decision.
@Mike S. - Ok I know the church is somewhat out of the picture!
Yes I understand that it is DB and not the church but my point is this....
People making a living off of the church.
When I do projects for the church, it is cost plus 10%, not my normall mark ups, I do this for any church not just mine or yours.
I personaly feel that it is my duty to do what I can for the cheapest possable price.
But for someone to try and make as much as they can, it just rubs me wrong, and I sure that if I was a church book seller my thoughts my be different, that's all!
Yes I understand that it is DB and not the church but my point is this....
People making a living off of the church.
When I do projects for the church, it is cost plus 10%, not my normall mark ups, I do this for any church not just mine or yours.
I personaly feel that it is my duty to do what I can for the cheapest possable price.
But for someone to try and make as much as they can, it just rubs me wrong, and I sure that if I was a church book seller my thoughts my be different, that's all!
A small book store just opened in Tooele, with the intent of selling Desert Book products. Right at the opening date, Des Book pulled the rug out from under them. It may cost a family trying to start a business their life savings.
@Brent M. - ...well, you know what I mean;)
DB gets all of this ridicule for selling church materials. Artists and authors get ridiculed for selling gospel oriented products (some of them right fully so I guess). Then a family comes along who tries to piggy back off of the church, and they're suddenly a victim for not getting all of their ducks in a row.
9 out of 10 business start-ups fail. Just because theirs involved church books, it didn't exclude them from this statistic.
I'm sure their next attempt will be better planned. Good for them and their willingness to try though. Aren't americans awesome.
DB gets all of this ridicule for selling church materials. Artists and authors get ridiculed for selling gospel oriented products (some of them right fully so I guess). Then a family comes along who tries to piggy back off of the church, and they're suddenly a victim for not getting all of their ducks in a row.
9 out of 10 business start-ups fail. Just because theirs involved church books, it didn't exclude them from this statistic.
I'm sure their next attempt will be better planned. Good for them and their willingness to try though. Aren't americans awesome.
I am very shocked at what the executives at Deseret Book is doing to Seagull Book. Just because they can not compete with the marketing that Seagull Book has put in place should not justify creating a "Monopoly" on all of Church Publications. I think that it is shameful
@Carol W. - Give me a break. Have you been to a Seagull store lately? They are like ghosttowns - no customers and no helpful employees. Deseret Book treats me well, and I get things just as cheaply there as I do anywhere.
@Melissa H. - Every time i've been in they have been busy! Thats why they are continuing to open stores!
Money talks and bull walks! I guess that is true in any business. If you can't beat them get rid of them is the new way of doing things.
I don't like the new rules so I'll take my ball (books) and go home! This reminds me of a spoiled kid not wanting to play anymore because he/she is getting beat all the time.
Not only is Seagull Books losing out but so will Deseret Book with this move.
I don't like the new rules so I'll take my ball (books) and go home! This reminds me of a spoiled kid not wanting to play anymore because he/she is getting beat all the time.
Not only is Seagull Books losing out but so will Deseret Book with this move.
It is best that Seagull books go their own way. Who really wants to affiliate with a company that has it's own interests (Sheri Dew's books)in mind. Deseret Book has little if any vision. Deseret Book no longer accept new music artists/Cd. There are the proud few artists that they recognize and continue to promote, but heaven forbid more artist(wink wink competition). If Deseret doesn't like how Seagull books markets their titles what are they going to do with the mom/pop operations that sell their Deseret Book and do even less to "Market their books".The competition is great since it reduces prices. Deseret Books are over priced. I suppose my only option is really to hit the Church's website for material. perhaps the Church should publish more of it's author's material through Church Distribution.
@J D. - Your statement about DB forbidding new artists is not true. My friend is in the process of writing a CD with them right now, and she's new to the Market and everything. So I'm going to have to pull the BS red card on you. Now please don't head-butt me in the chest (for all you soccer fans).
Mr. Belvedere
Mr. Belvedere
@Mr. B. - I appreciate your post: a)because of your soccer reference, and b)Mr. Belvedere is the coolest TV butler ever.
Thank you.
Thank you.
@Mr. B. - We did receive a letter of notification that Deseret would not accept anymore artists because there are so many albums being submitted and they couldn't handle it. By the way what is the name of your friend's new Cd. If she's anything like you it sounds like it will be very inspirational!!!
@J D. - So many albums being submitted????
There are literally thousands of secular, rap albums, pop albums, country albums, rock and roll albums etc. Sadly, only a select, superior, few inspirational LDS albums are available or are being distributed by LDS companies.
Why don't we (people and businesses) start promoting other peoples talents and assets, and build each other up instead of tearing each other down, or discouraging those who want to promote goodness? Heaven knows that the world needs more good music just to bring balance. It also needs many more good companies and products.
There are literally thousands of secular, rap albums, pop albums, country albums, rock and roll albums etc. Sadly, only a select, superior, few inspirational LDS albums are available or are being distributed by LDS companies.
Why don't we (people and businesses) start promoting other peoples talents and assets, and build each other up instead of tearing each other down, or discouraging those who want to promote goodness? Heaven knows that the world needs more good music just to bring balance. It also needs many more good companies and products.
@J D. - JD,
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but my friend really is working with DB right now on a CD and she really is new to the scene. Maybe my friend got her deal just ahead of the crowd. Or maybe the response you are receiving from them is their way of saying that they don't like your work. Oh Snap!!! I don't really care what they wrote to you, the fact remains that my friend is still working on a CD with them. As for the name of her CD, I don't know. But I'm thinking she's leaning toward "You're the Inspiration, Mr. Belvedere." I'm sure I could find out for you if you really wanted to know.
On a serious note - I don't know exactly what your role is in the whole trying-to-get-established-as-a-new-artist-thing, but I have to give you a sincere round of applause because it is definetely not an easy process. It seems to be a fairly treacherous climb, if you know what I mean - and anybody who has to go through that situation should be given a pat on the back.
Amen
Mr. Belvedere
I'm sorry to burst your bubble but my friend really is working with DB right now on a CD and she really is new to the scene. Maybe my friend got her deal just ahead of the crowd. Or maybe the response you are receiving from them is their way of saying that they don't like your work. Oh Snap!!! I don't really care what they wrote to you, the fact remains that my friend is still working on a CD with them. As for the name of her CD, I don't know. But I'm thinking she's leaning toward "You're the Inspiration, Mr. Belvedere." I'm sure I could find out for you if you really wanted to know.
On a serious note - I don't know exactly what your role is in the whole trying-to-get-established-as-a-new-artist-thing, but I have to give you a sincere round of applause because it is definetely not an easy process. It seems to be a fairly treacherous climb, if you know what I mean - and anybody who has to go through that situation should be given a pat on the back.
Amen
Mr. Belvedere
It may have been a "business" decision but I think the people who are running Deseret Book need to get a refresher course in public relations
To echo the previous commentor, DB is a business. Whether it's owned by the church or not, it's a *business*. That means it has to turn a profit, so any boo-hooing about "cash is king" and so forth are just appeals to emotion.
What it comes down to, actually, is that a publisher shouldn't be in the bookstore business. It's pretty much considered unethical in the publishing business in the "outside world" for a publisher to own a bookstore because it's a conflict of interest. And here you have a great example why. In pulling their books out of one of their major retailers to protect their bookstore, the publisher is actually undercutting their own sales in the process.
It's not a church issue. Leave the church out of it. Look at it as a business, and you'll see not only flaws in logic, but also flaws in business practice.
What it comes down to, actually, is that a publisher shouldn't be in the bookstore business. It's pretty much considered unethical in the publishing business in the "outside world" for a publisher to own a bookstore because it's a conflict of interest. And here you have a great example why. In pulling their books out of one of their major retailers to protect their bookstore, the publisher is actually undercutting their own sales in the process.
It's not a church issue. Leave the church out of it. Look at it as a business, and you'll see not only flaws in logic, but also flaws in business practice.
I am shocked that the executives at Deseret Book are stooping to such low levels to eliminate the competition. Maybe they ought to look at their marketing department rather than pulling all inventory from the store that seems to be able to sell more than they do. I loved having the option of going to both Seagull Book and Deseret Book. This action will create a situation where I won't go to Deseret Book at all. I think the whole situation is ridiculous.
What a stupid decision on the part of Deseret Book!!
Where I come from - California, there are very few deseret book stores. Many people only have Segull Book stores wherein to do their shopping. If they now can't buy Deseret Book Products - the following will probably occur:
A. Deseret Book sales will fall very much in those areas where their books can't be purchased. (On line isn't always a viable option.)
B. People will start purchasing books from other publishers who espouse the Mormon cause. Deseret Books isn't the only publisher around you know!!
C. Segull books could go out of business - but then maybe not! Other publishers could step in and fill the void thus hurting Deseret Book!!
D. In other words - Deseret Books could easily lose their place as the number one publisher of Mormon Books. (I know if I were a publisher - like Covenant, or Gold Leaf, etc. I'd be thrilled by this decision by Deseret Book - it just would open up the Mormon book market more for me!
E. The more you limit where your products can be sold the less of a profit you will make!!
Sincerely, Mrs. Shirley Lewis
Where I come from - California, there are very few deseret book stores. Many people only have Segull Book stores wherein to do their shopping. If they now can't buy Deseret Book Products - the following will probably occur:
A. Deseret Book sales will fall very much in those areas where their books can't be purchased. (On line isn't always a viable option.)
B. People will start purchasing books from other publishers who espouse the Mormon cause. Deseret Books isn't the only publisher around you know!!
C. Segull books could go out of business - but then maybe not! Other publishers could step in and fill the void thus hurting Deseret Book!!
D. In other words - Deseret Books could easily lose their place as the number one publisher of Mormon Books. (I know if I were a publisher - like Covenant, or Gold Leaf, etc. I'd be thrilled by this decision by Deseret Book - it just would open up the Mormon book market more for me!
E. The more you limit where your products can be sold the less of a profit you will make!!
Sincerely, Mrs. Shirley Lewis
I have watched Deseret Book change their look and feel over time. For a while it seemed like they were trying to compete with the likes of Bordres and Barnes and Noble, carrying everything and anything. While I have sometimes been a bit frustrated trying to find things there that I was looking for, it makes sense for them to specialize, which of late they have been doing more of. If I want secular stuff, there's always the other chains. If I'm looking for LDS material, I'm likely to find it at Deseret Book. Business is hard work, and Seagull will just have to adapt.
It simply a matter that Seagull Book has beat Deseret book at there own game. Seagull Book offer quality customer services, a better environment to shop and much better pricing. Deseret book have recently made feeble attempts to compete with price matching. The problem with that is why go to Deseret book and beg for a reasonable price for a book as they look down there nose at you like your some type of charity case. When you can simple walk in to any Seagull and get what you need at a fair price. So how does Deseret book respond, by throwing a tantrum. Making a poor decision that will hurt both Seagull and will hurt there own publishing company. Deseret book is simplying taking there ball and going home because they are loosing and don’t want to do hat they have to do to compete.
@Dan S. - I guess you missed my 9:52 am post about "customer service." You might want to look at another point of view, based upon experience, before you decide that "sour grapes" are in play and giving Deseret the rhubarb! Theee only time someone at Deseret has looked down their nose at me was when they were taller and they were trying to make eye-contact. I strongly dispute that "you can simple walk in to any Seagull and get what you need at a fair (ANY) price." You're lucky if they even know you're in the store, let alone assist you in making a purchase!
@P H. - I've had the same experience. When I go to Seagull, I basically get ignored. Plus, their stores are so full of clutter I can't find anything decent anyway.
@P H. - This is what I’m talking about when I say I wish Deseret Book needs to stay and compete. The sad fact is if what you are saying is true then DB would not have to pull their books from other stores. They would not need to because people would be buying the books from them and not going to the competition. If they treated more people like they treat you, if they simple gave a there customers a reason to come in their stores besides if you ask we will give you the same price this would all be a mute point. They need to stop playing defense and go out there and EARN customer loyalty, with better customer service, with a better store environment. They need to create a reputation that anyone can walk into the store and walk out with the best possible price. Right now most people who go to DB unless they shopped the competition first feel they are paying a higher price (even though it may not be true.) I guess I’m just lucky that I live by a great Seagull Book. I can’t go more than five minutes in the store without someone asking if I need help. They other thing I love is the people that work at the Seagull where I shop, actually have read a lot of the books they sell. I have real intellectual conversations about many different types of books with the store employees and they recommend some great books not just the most popular and not just books published by them.
I feel sorry for those living outside of the states of Utah and Idaho. Here we have both options but in California, I have only seen Seagull bookstores, no Deseret Books. And the Wal-marts there aren't selling DB books either. On my mission to Dallas there were no DB, just a Seagull book. And the Wal-marts there weren't selling LDS books either. So, members across North America will suffer from fewer DB published books, especially by apostles and prophets. Given DB's higher prices, plus the shipping costs to order by catalog, it will just hit people harder in the pocket book.
@Jenny F. - Yes, the world is indeed deprived. After all, someone living away from a Deseret Book couldn't possibly buy a Deseret Book by visiting their website www.DeseretBook.com or www.walmart.com or by looking at the Deseret Book catalog, picking up the phone and ordering a product. It seems that the only people who will ever be able to read a Deseret Book now are the ones who live within driving distance of a store. After all, technology was probably only invented for the ignorant to post comments about a business decision that really doesn't affect 99% of the world.
@Melanie D. - Why you felt the need to call me ignorant for posting an observation is beyond me. If you re read what I wrote, you would notice that I did state that buying online/catalog would simply cost people more than it can to just walk into a store. My post was neither critizing DB or supporting them, only stating my sympathy for the consumer who will now have to pay more for what they want.
Maybe you weren't inferring I am ignorant when you said, "After all, technology was probably only invented for the ignorant to post comments about a business decision that really doesn't affect 99% of the world." Given that you would in effect be calling yourself ignorant since you posted also!
Maybe you weren't inferring I am ignorant when you said, "After all, technology was probably only invented for the ignorant to post comments about a business decision that really doesn't affect 99% of the world." Given that you would in effect be calling yourself ignorant since you posted also!
@Jenny F. - I was hasty in making my remark yesterday, and I apologize. I was not meaning to call you ignorant. I was a little wound up because of a lot of the ignorant comments that were posted by other users, and I'm afraid I took it out on you. I feel like this is an issue that has been blown way out of proportion by a lot of people. It was a business decision that, while it will affect people, probably won't have the devastating outcome most people are projecting. Again, I'm sorry, I didn't intend to attack you.
I'm LDS, but I've never understood the need for buying all the parephenilia. I've got my scriptures, and I have whatever study guides that are in current use, but I have no interst in all the books, icons, idols, gadgets, movies, gewgaws and other stuff that is part of the "culture."
Seems to me it pretty much boils down to "go to church on Sunday" and "act like you're going to church the rest of the week." Done. How much more clarification is needed?
Neither establishment is ever going to get rich off of ME, that's for sure.
Seems to me it pretty much boils down to "go to church on Sunday" and "act like you're going to church the rest of the week." Done. How much more clarification is needed?
Neither establishment is ever going to get rich off of ME, that's for sure.
@Eric A. - I've always felt the same way. Which is why I don't buy a lot at DB... Scriptures and manuals I can get at the distribution center. So much of the rest seems like obscenely commercial claptrap.
There are a lot of assumptions being made with these postings. If you were not in the decision making process you should not be making statements. Remember what assume translates to. You will make as ass out u and me. And there are a lot of asses being made.
The quote given by the DesBok Exec. states that this decission was made due to the way the items were being advertised. That may, or may not, give reference to the price that was advertised. I have seen some Segull Book comercials that were questionable as to the pitch given to the product. I have also purchased DesBok products at Smith's for less then you could get them at either DesBook or Seagull. If this were about price why is Smith's not being cut-off? You must also give way to the fact that Seagull Execs would not answer their phone, do they have something to hide? Why would DesBok make this decission w/o good cause. They, I am sure, are aware that it would garner this kind of reaction. (Especially the Mormon haters that look for this stuff to insert their random bashings in an inate spewing of words before thought.) This kind of bad publicity alone would make any company think twice before canceling a vendor.
I am disappointed at the decision of DB to monopolize the market. They can't compete with Seagull because of bureaucratic overhead. We will see many good authors no longer publish through DB because they want their books to reach a wider audience. This a decision that will have longer term negative effects on their business.
Allen
Allen
For someone who has seen closely the inner workings of Deseret Book, this does not surprise me at all. There has been a long history of bad blood between the two companies. Further, Jeff Simpson has had issues with Seagull when he was the owner of Excel. Since the Deseret/Excel Entertainment merge last year, Simpson has found himself with the power to exact revenge.
The plan for the company is to eliminate any and all competition and control all the artistic and publishing outgoings of the entire market/culture. Deseret has a history of opening a store right next to a Seagull or other independent LDS retailer, forcing them out of business. Their western styler, hostile, bully in the school yard tactics have mostly gone unnoticed by the general public until now.
the problem however, is they have the money and the power to back them up. With the LDS general authorities sitting on the board of directors for the company, many people will back down and say that "this is the will of the Church/God". The problem and the flaw found in the logic, is that people like Jeff Simpson, Sheri Dew and John Daton who are calling all the shots for the publishing and sales for the company, and using their positions to play bully to the people who were mean to them in years past.
Since the merger, that created such a huge monopoly on the entire LDS culture as far as LDS products are concerned, Many good people have been pushed out of the way, fired, laid off, and many good artist, and writers have been dropped from their contracts that they had with both companies.
Not to be too judgmental, because I wouldn't want to take that job away from Deseret Book, but the Bible AND the Book of Mormon has a long history that constantly repeats its self. The story is that of the good becoming corrupt and turning evil, while still professing to be good.
I hope that Seagull looks into legal action against Deseret, and I hope that the general public notices that this is the common practice in many of the "church owned" operations.
The plan for the company is to eliminate any and all competition and control all the artistic and publishing outgoings of the entire market/culture. Deseret has a history of opening a store right next to a Seagull or other independent LDS retailer, forcing them out of business. Their western styler, hostile, bully in the school yard tactics have mostly gone unnoticed by the general public until now.
the problem however, is they have the money and the power to back them up. With the LDS general authorities sitting on the board of directors for the company, many people will back down and say that "this is the will of the Church/God". The problem and the flaw found in the logic, is that people like Jeff Simpson, Sheri Dew and John Daton who are calling all the shots for the publishing and sales for the company, and using their positions to play bully to the people who were mean to them in years past.
Since the merger, that created such a huge monopoly on the entire LDS culture as far as LDS products are concerned, Many good people have been pushed out of the way, fired, laid off, and many good artist, and writers have been dropped from their contracts that they had with both companies.
Not to be too judgmental, because I wouldn't want to take that job away from Deseret Book, but the Bible AND the Book of Mormon has a long history that constantly repeats its self. The story is that of the good becoming corrupt and turning evil, while still professing to be good.
I hope that Seagull looks into legal action against Deseret, and I hope that the general public notices that this is the common practice in many of the "church owned" operations.
@Doug M. - How do you guys have all of this inside knowlegde about authors, who calls the shots, why the decision was made? It is fun to see the speculation. Keep it coming!
@Doug M. - Before you go throwing all these stones at Deseret Book you should look at Seagull. I have seen their "brilliant" management at work, ripping on the employees (just a quick example, calling them nerds for the store's not performing up to management's expectations), not allowing a store manager to use the store effectively. Seagull does not manage their business well. Therefore, if Deseret thinks it is in its best interests not to do business with Seagull, Seagull only has them selves to blame.
It seems like you have your own opinion about what Deseret Books does and that it is all bad, maybe you had a bad experience or something, I don't know. But you have yet to show the inner workings of Deseret Book are not made out of pure business practices. Your post shows a lot of hate to Deseret Book, do you care to state the actual reasons? Were you an employee that go fired for non-performance? Or do you work for Seagull? Please tell us the truth about your situation and stop bashing Deseret Book with hearsay and innuendo.
It seems like you have your own opinion about what Deseret Books does and that it is all bad, maybe you had a bad experience or something, I don't know. But you have yet to show the inner workings of Deseret Book are not made out of pure business practices. Your post shows a lot of hate to Deseret Book, do you care to state the actual reasons? Were you an employee that go fired for non-performance? Or do you work for Seagull? Please tell us the truth about your situation and stop bashing Deseret Book with hearsay and innuendo.
Rarely have I bought books from either Seagull or DB. ebay usually has most books for a small fraction of the cost you'd pay; sometimes a bit of patience is involved but you get to browse from your sofa chair.
I'm a little surprised at DB; I would think that access to LDS author's would be better facilitated by allowing book distribution through multiple channels. No market should be controlled through monopoly.
Hey, maybe LDS authors should be appealing to a much wider audience anyway. Why limit you book sales by publishing through DB? Would Mitt Romney publish a book through DB? I wouldn't.
ebay is still the way.
I'm a little surprised at DB; I would think that access to LDS author's would be better facilitated by allowing book distribution through multiple channels. No market should be controlled through monopoly.
Hey, maybe LDS authors should be appealing to a much wider audience anyway. Why limit you book sales by publishing through DB? Would Mitt Romney publish a book through DB? I wouldn't.
ebay is still the way.
@Al K. - News flash: McDonalds has a monopoly on the Big Mac market. GASP!!!!
DB only has control over its own products, not "everything with a Mormon theme." Seagull can sell anything they want to, as long as they have a supplier.
The authors can sign with anybody they want to. They need not sign with DB. Many don't, and their books will continue to be sold through a variety of channels.
DB only has control over its own products, not "everything with a Mormon theme." Seagull can sell anything they want to, as long as they have a supplier.
The authors can sign with anybody they want to. They need not sign with DB. Many don't, and their books will continue to be sold through a variety of channels.
Here are some ways to give them your thoughts (these are all from the Deseret Book website):
CEO - Sheri Dew sdew@deseretbook.com
Copyrights & Permissions pwilliam@deseretbook.com
Order & Product Inquiries dbdirect@deseretbook.com
Technical Support support@deseretbook.com
Internet Division dbol@deseretbook.com
Marketing Division jcrippen@deseretbook.com
Media Inquiries gbrown@deseretbook.com
Publishing (Books and Music) lmangum@deseretbook.com
Retail Division rpowell@deseretbook.com
Wholesale Division dbwhsale@deseretbook.com
Let them know how you feel.
CEO - Sheri Dew sdew@deseretbook.com
Copyrights & Permissions pwilliam@deseretbook.com
Order & Product Inquiries dbdirect@deseretbook.com
Technical Support support@deseretbook.com
Internet Division dbol@deseretbook.com
Marketing Division jcrippen@deseretbook.com
Media Inquiries gbrown@deseretbook.com
Publishing (Books and Music) lmangum@deseretbook.com
Retail Division rpowell@deseretbook.com
Wholesale Division dbwhsale@deseretbook.com
Let them know how you feel.
@Mike S. - I think I'll email each of them and let them know that I DON'T CARE. I bought a nice Triple Combination from them some years back, with my name engraved on it and everything, but they don't sell anything else that I actually need.
who cares?
@Andrew F. - If you want it, buy it. There is still plenty of places other than Deseret Book to buy Deseret Book products. You can still get Seagull products at Seagull. If it's what you want to buy, find the cheapest price and buy it.
Instead of spending so much money on buying a copy for yourself, try checking a book out from the library. Weber County Library System has a great religion collection in all the branches, which includes many LDS authors.
Who really cares, Walmart has a monopoly, I don't anyone complaing about that, and when DB wants to take it's books from its competition why shouldn't they. Please people, get some common sense.
@Bryan S. - What does Walmart have a "monopoly" on? Just because they are the biggest player in their market doesn't mean they've got a "monopoly."
The issue here is that Deseret Books will no longer provide THEIR OWN PRODUCTS to Seagull for resale.
So what? This kind of thing goes on in business all the time. I don't understand the hoopla.
At least a couple of times, Ford Motor Company has tried to shut down the entire dealer network and only sell through factory-owned dealers. That was their perogative. The plan failed both times, but they were within their rights to do it.
There is nothing "wrong" with choosing whom you want to market your products. It may or may not be a wise business decision in the long run, but it's still "just business."
Anytime there is any connection with "the church", or if any kind of hypothetical connection can be dreamed up, Utah goes nuts. Both sides of the argument sounds silly. I can't imagine that anybody outside Utah, Mormon or otherwise, cares even the slightest bit about this nonsense.
So what? This kind of thing goes on in business all the time. I don't understand the hoopla.
At least a couple of times, Ford Motor Company has tried to shut down the entire dealer network and only sell through factory-owned dealers. That was their perogative. The plan failed both times, but they were within their rights to do it.
There is nothing "wrong" with choosing whom you want to market your products. It may or may not be a wise business decision in the long run, but it's still "just business."
Anytime there is any connection with "the church", or if any kind of hypothetical connection can be dreamed up, Utah goes nuts. Both sides of the argument sounds silly. I can't imagine that anybody outside Utah, Mormon or otherwise, cares even the slightest bit about this nonsense.
@Eric A. - You said it so much better than I could. It really isn't an issue.
An added note, what's with all of the Deseret Book/Sheri Dew/Mormon haters? I mean, seriously, do any of these enitites/people really affect your everyday lives to the point that you feel the need to make hateful comments in a public forum? Sad.
An added note, what's with all of the Deseret Book/Sheri Dew/Mormon haters? I mean, seriously, do any of these enitites/people really affect your everyday lives to the point that you feel the need to make hateful comments in a public forum? Sad.
@M L. - This is for all you Deseret Book/LDS Church/Mormon/Sheri Dew bashers out there. GROW UP!!! Whatever. Utah doesn't exist in a vacuum. None of this backlash/sour grapes/holier than thou crap would be posted on this website if Deseret Book were a publishing company based outside Utah. Grow up. The separation of church and state is alive and well in this country, so stop living behind the Zion curtain and grow up and live in the real world, where BUSINESS is still business and capitalism is alive and well. Business is business and whether or not Deseret Book has made a wise business decision will play itself out, without your help. I applaud Deseret Book for boldly going forward and doing what they feel is in their best interest. Start your own book company if you disagree. STOP bashing the LDS Church and the executives at Deseret Book. It doesn't make you look bigger, it just exposes your small-minded, stuck in the 1800's mentality.
I went shopping for a John Bytheway book for my son earlier this year and found myself in a Seagull Book. After a 15 minutes of searching I was able to find exactly one copy each of two John Bytheway books about 4 rows back, on the bottom shelf, spine out. Niehter was the book I needed.
No wonder Deseret Book is frustrated about the way their products/authors/artists are treated by Seagull Book. Ask yourself why would Seagull relegate such a popular author to the bottom shelf? John Bytheway is arguably the most popular and best selling youth speaker I know of. This would be like walking into a Barnes and Noble and not finding a Dan Brown novel anywhere in plain sight!
Shame on all of those who have made personal attacks on Deseret Book or anyone associated the company or the church for that matter. Educate yourself and stop taking the bait...business decisions are made in the best interest of the company and it's customers. I shop for religious products at a dozen different places, including online. Shop where you like and stop whining.
No wonder Deseret Book is frustrated about the way their products/authors/artists are treated by Seagull Book. Ask yourself why would Seagull relegate such a popular author to the bottom shelf? John Bytheway is arguably the most popular and best selling youth speaker I know of. This would be like walking into a Barnes and Noble and not finding a Dan Brown novel anywhere in plain sight!
Shame on all of those who have made personal attacks on Deseret Book or anyone associated the company or the church for that matter. Educate yourself and stop taking the bait...business decisions are made in the best interest of the company and it's customers. I shop for religious products at a dozen different places, including online. Shop where you like and stop whining.
@Dale D. - SINCE THIS BLOG ENTRY "by Dale D. @ 2:37pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006" DESERET HAS PURCHASED SEAGULL AND COVENANT. I DO AGREE WITH THE "SHAME ON...THE ATTACKS ON THE CHURCH"- BUT PEOPLE IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC REALLY DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE STORY. THERE ARE COUNTLESS INDEPENDANT LDS BOOK SELLERS WHO HAVE BEEN FORCED OUT OF THE INDUSTRY BECAUSE OF POOR BUSINESS PRACTICE (AND ILLEGAL IN SOME INSTANCES). CHECK INTO HOW MANY INDEPENDANTS ARE STILL AROUND IN IDAHO AND IN LAS VEGAS. OH... I GUESS THAT THEY AREN'T IN THE PHONE BOOK ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY WERE RUN OUT OF BUSINESS.
ALSO---HOW MANY COMPANIES DOES DESERET BOOK NOW OWN?
DESERET BOOK. LUMEN RECORDS. EXCEL. BOOKCRAFT. SHADOW MTN. SEAGULL. COVENANT. AND I KNOW THERE'S A FEW MORE
ALSO---HOW MANY COMPANIES DOES DESERET BOOK NOW OWN?
DESERET BOOK. LUMEN RECORDS. EXCEL. BOOKCRAFT. SHADOW MTN. SEAGULL. COVENANT. AND I KNOW THERE'S A FEW MORE
at Deseret Book. To me, it is a fun place to shop. I used to shop only at Seagull, but since Deseret Book started price matching, I just go there instead. I like the atmosphere so much better, and they have a bigger selection. Plus, with thier rewards program, I save even more. So I don't have any complaints.
By the way, those of you shouting priestcraft might want to find out what that really means. But hey, your ingnorance gave me a good laugh.
By the way, those of you shouting priestcraft might want to find out what that really means. But hey, your ingnorance gave me a good laugh.
@M L. - "I used to shop only at Seagull, but since Deseret Book started price matching, I just go there instead."
And that's the whole point. DB will no longer price match because there is no price to match. Seagull won'have a price because they won't have merchandise.
And before you say, "Well, they'll match Smiths or Barnes and Nobles", ask yourself if you local supermarket really sells as many DB titles as Seagull.
And that's the whole point. DB will no longer price match because there is no price to match. Seagull won'have a price because they won't have merchandise.
And before you say, "Well, they'll match Smiths or Barnes and Nobles", ask yourself if you local supermarket really sells as many DB titles as Seagull.
@Marion J. - That's probably true, but I don't really care anymore, since experiencing the atmosphere of Deseret Book compared to Seagull. Half the time I couldn't find what I wanted at Seagull anyway, and I hated the way their store was set up, and the service wasn't that great, either. With DB, I get the kind of service I want most of the time, (conference weekends are really busy, but that is to be expected.) I just like Deseret Book better. I guess I am willing to pay a little more to have a better selection, better service, and a more comfortable atmosphere. Other people aren't. That is there opinion, and that is fine.
When there is real news going on in the Israel, it seems like arguing about the business tactics of a book publisher is silly. I'm surprised how impassioned some of the posts get!
It blows my mind to see commentary bashing good people like Sheri Dew. Deseret Book and Seagull are competitors, and business competetors are always trying to outmanuever one another. Maybe it will benefit Deseret Book, maybe it will backfire, but either way it certainly isn't immoral and certainly is not a big deal.
It blows my mind to see commentary bashing good people like Sheri Dew. Deseret Book and Seagull are competitors, and business competetors are always trying to outmanuever one another. Maybe it will benefit Deseret Book, maybe it will backfire, but either way it certainly isn't immoral and certainly is not a big deal.
@Bart W. - What are you talking about? This is the only relevant story on the wires right now. As for Israel and the surrounding countries, they've been doing what they're doing for thousands of years. Whats the big deal?
Why do us LDS people get so defensive when people voice different opinions? Are we that insecure in our convictions? Why do some others feel the need to constantly spend their energies in vitriolic, acrimonious, accusing behavior?
AND, why do both parties so often end up relying on personal attacks in the absence of facts?
Whether one agrees with what DB has done, about 90% of the discussion in forum has been about people rather than about the issue in question.
AND, why do both parties so often end up relying on personal attacks in the absence of facts?
Whether one agrees with what DB has done, about 90% of the discussion in forum has been about people rather than about the issue in question.
Oh yeah and who cares? I am sure that they could have made nice with DB a lot of times. Of course they care now...but why should we?
DB doesn't have to price match with Seagull anymore...wasn't that the point of their action?
Thanks goodness for Amazon, ebay, etc.
Thanks goodness for Amazon, ebay, etc.
I was mad about this (see a prior post from earlier today) and actually emailed Deseret Book. To their credit, I received an email back from the Vice President within a few hours. Hopefully, this helps clarify the issue. To all the posters that it is not purely about the price, but about the presentation, you appear to be right. Here is a copy of it:
-------------------------
Dear Mike
Thank you for taking the time to inquire with us directly about our decision to no longer provide Deseret Book product to Seagull Book and Tape. We appreciate the chance to respond to your concerns. We also appreciate your candor and assume you expect the same in return.
Very simply, you are making assumptions and drawing conclusions that are not correct. We realize, of course, as we imagine you do, that it is nearly impossible to get the whole story from the media. Deseret Book’s decision to no longer sell its products to Seagull is not about competition. Surely this is obvious, based upon what is happening in the marketplace.
During recent years, we have dramatically increased, not decreased, the distribution of our products, which are now available and will continue to be available through literally thousands of outlets, including Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Costco, Walgreens, Barnes and Noble, FYE Stores, hundreds of independent LDS and general bookstores, Deseret Book stores, and Deseretbook.com. Further, every one of our titles is available on Amazon.com, which as you may know is an aggressive discounter.
Deseret Book and Seagull simply have differing views about how Deseret Book-branded product should be merchandised, promoted, displayed, and handled. We have come to our current decision after years of differences on these issues.
We appreciate your interest, and assure you that Deseret Book product is currently available in more locations and from more vendors than ever in its history.
We sincerely thank you for writing.
With warmest regards,
Jeff Simpson
Executive Vice President
Deseret Book Co.
-------------------------
Dear Mike
Thank you for taking the time to inquire with us directly about our decision to no longer provide Deseret Book product to Seagull Book and Tape. We appreciate the chance to respond to your concerns. We also appreciate your candor and assume you expect the same in return.
Very simply, you are making assumptions and drawing conclusions that are not correct. We realize, of course, as we imagine you do, that it is nearly impossible to get the whole story from the media. Deseret Book’s decision to no longer sell its products to Seagull is not about competition. Surely this is obvious, based upon what is happening in the marketplace.
During recent years, we have dramatically increased, not decreased, the distribution of our products, which are now available and will continue to be available through literally thousands of outlets, including Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Costco, Walgreens, Barnes and Noble, FYE Stores, hundreds of independent LDS and general bookstores, Deseret Book stores, and Deseretbook.com. Further, every one of our titles is available on Amazon.com, which as you may know is an aggressive discounter.
Deseret Book and Seagull simply have differing views about how Deseret Book-branded product should be merchandised, promoted, displayed, and handled. We have come to our current decision after years of differences on these issues.
We appreciate your interest, and assure you that Deseret Book product is currently available in more locations and from more vendors than ever in its history.
We sincerely thank you for writing.
With warmest regards,
Jeff Simpson
Executive Vice President
Deseret Book Co.
@Mike S. - My guess, judging from the Deseret Book letter above, is that Deseret Book got tired of doing all the work of marketing and spending all the money to make people aware of their products, with TV ads and ads in magazines, etc., only to have Seagull swoop in (no pun intended...well, maybe a little) and steal the sale at the last moment.
@Stan B. - There's a million reasons vendors stop working with certain retailers. This letter hints at some, but doesn't get into specifics, which I think is admirable of Deseret Book.
I expect that to do something like this they probably have some pretty solid grievances with Seagull. Strikes me as a classy move not to air Seagull's dirty laundry in random emails to customers, and especially to the press.
I expect that to do something like this they probably have some pretty solid grievances with Seagull. Strikes me as a classy move not to air Seagull's dirty laundry in random emails to customers, and especially to the press.
@Mike S. - Is it just me, or does this seem like a form letter?
Its practically word-for-word what has appeared in the news.
Its practically word-for-word what has appeared in the news.
@Kent L. - Kent,
Yes it's a form letter. I received the same one with no changes. Here it is:
Dear Ryan,
Thank you for taking the time to inquire with us directly about our decision to no longer provide Deseret Book product to Seagull Book and Tape. We appreciate the chance to respond to your concerns. We also appreciate your candor and assume you expect the same in return.
Very simply, you are making assumptions and drawing conclusions that are not correct. We realize, of course, as we imagine you do, that it is nearly impossible to get the whole story from the media. Deseret Book’s decision to no longer sell its products to Seagull is not about competition. Surely this is obvious, based upon what is happening in the marketplace.
During recent years, we have dramatically increased, not decreased, the distribution of our products, which are now available and will continue to be available through literally thousands of outlets, including Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Costco, Walgreens, Barnes and Noble, FYE Stores, hundreds of independent LDS and general bookstores, Deseret Book stores, and Deseretbook.com. Further, every one of our titles is available on Amazon.com, which as you may know is an aggressive discounter.
Deseret Book and Seagull simply have differing views about how Deseret Book-branded product should be merchandised, promoted, displayed, and handled. We have come to our current decision after years of differences on these issues.
We appreciate your interest, and assure you that Deseret Book product is currently available in more locations and from more vendors than ever in its history.
We sincerely thank you for writing.
With warmest regards,
Jeff Simpson
Executive Vice President
Deseret Book Co.
Yes it's a form letter. I received the same one with no changes. Here it is:
Dear Ryan,
Thank you for taking the time to inquire with us directly about our decision to no longer provide Deseret Book product to Seagull Book and Tape. We appreciate the chance to respond to your concerns. We also appreciate your candor and assume you expect the same in return.
Very simply, you are making assumptions and drawing conclusions that are not correct. We realize, of course, as we imagine you do, that it is nearly impossible to get the whole story from the media. Deseret Book’s decision to no longer sell its products to Seagull is not about competition. Surely this is obvious, based upon what is happening in the marketplace.
During recent years, we have dramatically increased, not decreased, the distribution of our products, which are now available and will continue to be available through literally thousands of outlets, including Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Costco, Walgreens, Barnes and Noble, FYE Stores, hundreds of independent LDS and general bookstores, Deseret Book stores, and Deseretbook.com. Further, every one of our titles is available on Amazon.com, which as you may know is an aggressive discounter.
Deseret Book and Seagull simply have differing views about how Deseret Book-branded product should be merchandised, promoted, displayed, and handled. We have come to our current decision after years of differences on these issues.
We appreciate your interest, and assure you that Deseret Book product is currently available in more locations and from more vendors than ever in its history.
We sincerely thank you for writing.
With warmest regards,
Jeff Simpson
Executive Vice President
Deseret Book Co.
@Kent L. - Do you think that the VP of any company has time to draft correspondence to each individual inquiry on an issue like this? Of course it's a form letter, probably based on a press release with similar information. DB no doubt anticipated the public response and prepared the letter in advance.
I have my own issues with DB and their business practices, but I have to say that for a company to openly advertise that "you never pay full price for Deseret Book titles" seems like it wouldn't promote a good relationship. Seagull should have been more diplomatic in their representation of their discounting, especially if the estimate is anywhere near accurate that 50% of their books and 30% of their audio stock are DB publications.
And I don't buy Seagull's claim that they were surprised by the announcement. Anybody with any experience in the LDS market knows the uneasy relationship that has existed between these companies for years. My only surprise is that it took so long for this to happen.
On the hopeful side, this may encourage more competition if Covenant (Seagull's publishing arm) will seek out more serious LDS titles (perhaps even wooing some authors away from DB) than the fiction/romance fluff that has been the majority of their sales on since Anita Stansfield came on the scene.
I have my own issues with DB and their business practices, but I have to say that for a company to openly advertise that "you never pay full price for Deseret Book titles" seems like it wouldn't promote a good relationship. Seagull should have been more diplomatic in their representation of their discounting, especially if the estimate is anywhere near accurate that 50% of their books and 30% of their audio stock are DB publications.
And I don't buy Seagull's claim that they were surprised by the announcement. Anybody with any experience in the LDS market knows the uneasy relationship that has existed between these companies for years. My only surprise is that it took so long for this to happen.
On the hopeful side, this may encourage more competition if Covenant (Seagull's publishing arm) will seek out more serious LDS titles (perhaps even wooing some authors away from DB) than the fiction/romance fluff that has been the majority of their sales on since Anita Stansfield came on the scene.
Many who have posted here have asked why this is important. There are several reasons:
1. The economic impact. With as much as 50% of book purchases made on impulse, the sales that Seagull Book looses (probably $2 million or so, in my estimation) will make it a smaller company. They may have to close stores and consolidate. This means layoffs and has an economic impact on Seagull's other suppliers.
Deseret Book will also suffer. They could see a loss of sales that is 2/3rds of Seagull's loss (my estimate). As with Seagull, this could mean that they launch fewer new books or layoff some employees.
Bottom line, the loss of sales affects the entire industry, and might even affect the local economy slightly.
2. Consumers could see a reduction in the variety of books available. Not only won't consumers see Deseret Book titles in Seagull stores, but a weaker Seagull means other publishers won't be able to sell as much to Seagull.
3. A very large portion of the LDS book industry is at risk. Retail sales in the LDS book industry might be as much as $150 to $200 million, so having $2 million or more in retail sales disappear because of a "business decision" is a very big deal.
Remember, a large portion of book sales happen because the consumer happened to see the book in the store, NOT because the consumer went looking for the book! The impulse sales will disappear! Those consumers will likely not spend as much, and use that money for some other product (washing machines, food, etc.)
4. Because Deseret Book has such a large effect on the LDS market (see my blog posts at http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=159 ), there is a large possibility that this action, which might otherwise be a simple business decision, is actually an abuse of its position in the market.
In my mind, the above all make this an important issue.
1. The economic impact. With as much as 50% of book purchases made on impulse, the sales that Seagull Book looses (probably $2 million or so, in my estimation) will make it a smaller company. They may have to close stores and consolidate. This means layoffs and has an economic impact on Seagull's other suppliers.
Deseret Book will also suffer. They could see a loss of sales that is 2/3rds of Seagull's loss (my estimate). As with Seagull, this could mean that they launch fewer new books or layoff some employees.
Bottom line, the loss of sales affects the entire industry, and might even affect the local economy slightly.
2. Consumers could see a reduction in the variety of books available. Not only won't consumers see Deseret Book titles in Seagull stores, but a weaker Seagull means other publishers won't be able to sell as much to Seagull.
3. A very large portion of the LDS book industry is at risk. Retail sales in the LDS book industry might be as much as $150 to $200 million, so having $2 million or more in retail sales disappear because of a "business decision" is a very big deal.
Remember, a large portion of book sales happen because the consumer happened to see the book in the store, NOT because the consumer went looking for the book! The impulse sales will disappear! Those consumers will likely not spend as much, and use that money for some other product (washing machines, food, etc.)
4. Because Deseret Book has such a large effect on the LDS market (see my blog posts at http://www.motleyvision.org/?p=159 ), there is a large possibility that this action, which might otherwise be a simple business decision, is actually an abuse of its position in the market.
In my mind, the above all make this an important issue.
@Kent L. - I think it's a bit of a stretch to postulate that this decision is such a big deal that it will have an impact on the local economy in general. The vast majority of folks won't even notice that anything happened, and if they do, they'll stroll across the street, or jump online, and get whatever they're looking for without giving it a second thought.
@Kent L. - I miss your logic for why impulse sales will disappear? I can't really see how this decision by Deseret will kill the impulse buys.
Seems to me that 1% ($2 million of $200 million industry?) isn't much of a big deal, let alone a "very big deal", but maybe I don't understand the book business. Am I wrong?
Seems to me that 1% ($2 million of $200 million industry?) isn't much of a big deal, let alone a "very big deal", but maybe I don't understand the book business. Am I wrong?
@Stan B. - A customer goes into Seagull Book today, and while buying one book sees an interesting Deseret Book title and purchases it on impulse.
[The American Booksellers Association reports that this accounts for 50% of sales in bookstores!]
But after the new Deseret Book policy, that Deseret Book title is no longer on the shelf, so that customer may leave the store without making any impulse purchase at all!
Therefore, the impulse purchase has disappeared!!
With impulse buys accounting for such a large proportion of sales, a large proportion of the sales of Deseret Book titles could simply disappear.
As for how big a deal this is for the industry, look at it this way. Its like 150 or 200 titles simply disappeared -- had never been published. Or its like every one of the 5,000 products in the industry suddenly sold 30 fewer copies.
Maybe its not devastating, but I think most publishers and retailers wouldn't want those sales to disappear altogether.
[The American Booksellers Association reports that this accounts for 50% of sales in bookstores!]
But after the new Deseret Book policy, that Deseret Book title is no longer on the shelf, so that customer may leave the store without making any impulse purchase at all!
Therefore, the impulse purchase has disappeared!!
With impulse buys accounting for such a large proportion of sales, a large proportion of the sales of Deseret Book titles could simply disappear.
As for how big a deal this is for the industry, look at it this way. Its like 150 or 200 titles simply disappeared -- had never been published. Or its like every one of the 5,000 products in the industry suddenly sold 30 fewer copies.
Maybe its not devastating, but I think most publishers and retailers wouldn't want those sales to disappear altogether.
@Kent L. - I don't think it's like 150-200 titles disappear altogether. It's just that you won't find them at this particular chain. Like the guy above says, Deseret Book titles are actually in more outlets than ever.
I personally don't buy much from either store, but from Amazon (much too easy to make impulse buys from that site, by the way - I always seem to end up buying more than I set out to get)
And if Deseret Book titles are getting such poor placement or promotion or whatever at Seagull, which if you judge from what everyone on this board says, they are, I'd guess the impulse buys at Seagull stores are probably mostly buys of products that are more visible, i.e. not the Deseret Book stuff. So in most cases, Deseret probably isn't out anything anyway.
Just playing devil's advocate here. It really just seems like this is a non-issue. Like I said, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that most people won't even notice.
I personally don't buy much from either store, but from Amazon (much too easy to make impulse buys from that site, by the way - I always seem to end up buying more than I set out to get)
And if Deseret Book titles are getting such poor placement or promotion or whatever at Seagull, which if you judge from what everyone on this board says, they are, I'd guess the impulse buys at Seagull stores are probably mostly buys of products that are more visible, i.e. not the Deseret Book stuff. So in most cases, Deseret probably isn't out anything anyway.
Just playing devil's advocate here. It really just seems like this is a non-issue. Like I said, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that most people won't even notice.
I applaud this BUSINESS decision! Deseret Book is focusing on strengthening their CORE product offerings. Both as a publisher and as a book seller. Merchandising is KEY in strengthening your product line. A business would want their CORE products (their bread & butter) to have the most effective marketing, merchandising, and distribution.
Chosing what CORE products DB will carry in it's stores and from what vendors they will get them from is their decision and has been ongoing for many years. Likewise choosing where their own produced products will be distributed and sold is their decision and business right. It is not necessarily about discounted prices as much as it is about focusing on their CORE business.
This is about strengthening their CORE business by focusing on the needs of their customers. I am looking forward to the new product offerings that we will see come from Deseret Book in the future because they have been focusing on what really matters to them and to their customers.
Chosing what CORE products DB will carry in it's stores and from what vendors they will get them from is their decision and has been ongoing for many years. Likewise choosing where their own produced products will be distributed and sold is their decision and business right. It is not necessarily about discounted prices as much as it is about focusing on their CORE business.
This is about strengthening their CORE business by focusing on the needs of their customers. I am looking forward to the new product offerings that we will see come from Deseret Book in the future because they have been focusing on what really matters to them and to their customers.
@Amy A. - How does giving up more than $1 million in revenue help Deseret Book strengthen their CORE products?
I can understand Deseret Book wanting to get better marketing, merchandising and distribution. But there are better ways of doing this -- ones that don't have a 7 figure pricetag.
Couldn't Deseret Book have just said to Seagull; "Your lack of merchandising and marketing is costing us sales. Unless you are willing to do so, Deseret Book will reduce the discount you get on your purchases by 5%" Then, if Seagull still refused, Deseret Book could spend the 5% on advertising to boost sales.
I can understand Deseret Book wanting to get better marketing, merchandising and distribution. But there are better ways of doing this -- ones that don't have a 7 figure pricetag.
Couldn't Deseret Book have just said to Seagull; "Your lack of merchandising and marketing is costing us sales. Unless you are willing to do so, Deseret Book will reduce the discount you get on your purchases by 5%" Then, if Seagull still refused, Deseret Book could spend the 5% on advertising to boost sales.
@Kent L. - DB is allowed to make bad business decisions. It's a free country. Maybe they'll win, and maybe they'll lose. I don't care.
@Kent L. - I'm not sure where you're getting the million dollar figure from. I haven't heard that guess anywhere but on this board. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Deseret Book actually makes more money now, with increased foot traffic to their stores and all the other places their stuff is still available.
Judging from what I've read, it sounds like this drama has been going on for a long long time. I would guess that Deseret Book probably tried similar remedies to the one you proposed - I doubt this was a hasty emotional decision. I'm willing to give Deseret Book the benefit of the doubt - same for Seagull. Sounds like two parties who couldn't come to a mutual agreement on how to do business together.
This kind of stuff happens in the retail world all the time - vendors drop retailers, and retailers drop vendors. Seems like it's getting blown out of proportion any time religion is even peripherally involved.
Judging from what I've read, it sounds like this drama has been going on for a long long time. I would guess that Deseret Book probably tried similar remedies to the one you proposed - I doubt this was a hasty emotional decision. I'm willing to give Deseret Book the benefit of the doubt - same for Seagull. Sounds like two parties who couldn't come to a mutual agreement on how to do business together.
This kind of stuff happens in the retail world all the time - vendors drop retailers, and retailers drop vendors. Seems like it's getting blown out of proportion any time religion is even peripherally involved.
I shop at Segull when in Mesa and Utah as I am able to get books on CD that the Deseret Book stores choose not to carry because they have to pay too much to the authors (or what was stated at our Deseret Book Store).
While in Utah in May I bought $187 worth of CD's, and a picture as they carry the items I wanted to listen to while Deseret Book does not.
It infuriates me that we try to stay out of debt and that means buying items that are cheaper and now the cheaper has been taken away from me. They say it is comletely a business decision which means that Deseret Book is trying to make more money which I believe will actually be less as we can't afford them. At least the CD's I should be able to get as Deseret Book doesn't carry them anyway. I have email and send a letter to Sherrie Dew and she or her assistants have not even bothered to respond to the letter or email.
Judy M.
While in Utah in May I bought $187 worth of CD's, and a picture as they carry the items I wanted to listen to while Deseret Book does not.
It infuriates me that we try to stay out of debt and that means buying items that are cheaper and now the cheaper has been taken away from me. They say it is comletely a business decision which means that Deseret Book is trying to make more money which I believe will actually be less as we can't afford them. At least the CD's I should be able to get as Deseret Book doesn't carry them anyway. I have email and send a letter to Sherrie Dew and she or her assistants have not even bothered to respond to the letter or email.
Judy M.
@Judy M. - Try Amazon.com or Walmart - they have even lower prices than Seagull and carry LDS stuff.
@Stan B. - I have not tried either. I will now. But I know Costco does not carry the books on CD. Wish they would. I see lots of comments and several from the Deseret Book rep. There is an answer for everything. I do not accept the thought that Seagull has the dollar store look. I find it professional. Thanks for sending your ideas. Judy
Deseret Book Feels like Dillards and other expensive Stores......
Not that it is bad, but It feels like I am at a Dillards with the "Higher Class" of LDS Members. Since my budget doesnt fit in with the "Higher Class " I tend to go to the other LDS book stores because it fits my "lower class" budget. Its unfortunate for D.B. to do this and I sure hope its for a good reason.
Im not big into paying hight dollar for "Spiritual Material Things". Especially if it ends up paying for someones BMW.
If I can get it cheaper then I will shop else where or.... I can just wait for a long time and get it at the Deseret Industries ;-)
Not that it is bad, but It feels like I am at a Dillards with the "Higher Class" of LDS Members. Since my budget doesnt fit in with the "Higher Class " I tend to go to the other LDS book stores because it fits my "lower class" budget. Its unfortunate for D.B. to do this and I sure hope its for a good reason.
Im not big into paying hight dollar for "Spiritual Material Things". Especially if it ends up paying for someones BMW.
If I can get it cheaper then I will shop else where or.... I can just wait for a long time and get it at the Deseret Industries ;-)
A distributor has decided to limit their distribution of the products they represent to their own retail outlets.
That is ALL this story is about. It happens all the time. It means precisely NOTHING...unless you happen to own Seagull Books. But it's still just a business decision.
To look at this thread, you'd think civil war had broken out. The most bizarre part is the people who are clearly not LDS having such passionate opinions on the subject. They're obviously passionate...but I seriously doubt it's really about DB's business decision. They just hate "mormons", or anything to do with "mormons"...or anything unrelated to "mormons" that they can conceivably twist into being related to "mormons."
The rest of you are just plain NUTS. Whoopty freaking doo if you can't get Deseret Book branded products at Seagull. You can still get them from DB. Or you can skip them entirely. Nobody actually NEEDS any of this stuff in the first place. It's optional.
Over 320 posts! That's got to be a record...and I've only contributed 3 or 4 of them. Isn't there something IMPORTANT going on somewhere in the world?
That is ALL this story is about. It happens all the time. It means precisely NOTHING...unless you happen to own Seagull Books. But it's still just a business decision.
To look at this thread, you'd think civil war had broken out. The most bizarre part is the people who are clearly not LDS having such passionate opinions on the subject. They're obviously passionate...but I seriously doubt it's really about DB's business decision. They just hate "mormons", or anything to do with "mormons"...or anything unrelated to "mormons" that they can conceivably twist into being related to "mormons."
The rest of you are just plain NUTS. Whoopty freaking doo if you can't get Deseret Book branded products at Seagull. You can still get them from DB. Or you can skip them entirely. Nobody actually NEEDS any of this stuff in the first place. It's optional.
Over 320 posts! That's got to be a record...and I've only contributed 3 or 4 of them. Isn't there something IMPORTANT going on somewhere in the world?
@Eric A. - They're actually not even doing that - they're still selling to hundreds of outlets that aren't Deseret Book stores. So it's even less of a story.
DB rules and don't you forget it!What a bully,what arrogant ego!Ms Dew and her gang of cutthroats have no idea,sitting as they do,on Mt.Zion,that their petty decisions effect so many lives.Do thay care?GUESS.Will they pay a price?I hope so.I do hope there is legal action and a good liberal judge slaps them around.Liberal judges have to be good for something??
While many of of you were bantering back and forth assuming you know why Deseret Book pulled their products out of Seagull Book, I spent the time writing to Deseret Book and received the following response. Hopefully now, everyone can quit beating a dead horse!
Thank you for taking the time to inquire with us directly about our decision to no longer provide Deseret Book product to Seagull Book and Tape. We appreciate the chance to respond to your concerns. We also appreciate your candor and assume you expect the same in return.
We realize, of course, as we imagine you do, that it is nearly impossible to get the whole story from the media. Deseret Book’s decision to no longer sell its products to Seagull is not about competition. Surely this is obvious, based upon what is happening in the marketplace.
During recent years, we have dramatically increased, not decreased, the distribution of our products, which are now available and will continue to be available through literally thousands of outlets, including Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Costco, Walgreens, Barnes and Noble, FYE Stores, hundreds of independent LDS and general bookstores, Deseret Book stores, and Deseretbook.com. Further, every one of our titles is available on Amazon.com, which as you may know is an aggressive discounter.
Deseret Book and Seagull simply have differing views about how Deseret Book-branded product should be merchandised, promoted, displayed, and handled. We have come to our current decision after years of differences on these issues.
We appreciate your interest, and assure you that Deseret Book product is currently available in more locations and from more vendors than ever in its history.
We sincerely thank you for writing.
With warmest regards,
Jeff Simpson
Executive Vice President
Deseret Book Co.
Thank you for taking the time to inquire with us directly about our decision to no longer provide Deseret Book product to Seagull Book and Tape. We appreciate the chance to respond to your concerns. We also appreciate your candor and assume you expect the same in return.
We realize, of course, as we imagine you do, that it is nearly impossible to get the whole story from the media. Deseret Book’s decision to no longer sell its products to Seagull is not about competition. Surely this is obvious, based upon what is happening in the marketplace.
During recent years, we have dramatically increased, not decreased, the distribution of our products, which are now available and will continue to be available through literally thousands of outlets, including Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Costco, Walgreens, Barnes and Noble, FYE Stores, hundreds of independent LDS and general bookstores, Deseret Book stores, and Deseretbook.com. Further, every one of our titles is available on Amazon.com, which as you may know is an aggressive discounter.
Deseret Book and Seagull simply have differing views about how Deseret Book-branded product should be merchandised, promoted, displayed, and handled. We have come to our current decision after years of differences on these issues.
We appreciate your interest, and assure you that Deseret Book product is currently available in more locations and from more vendors than ever in its history.
We sincerely thank you for writing.
With warmest regards,
Jeff Simpson
Executive Vice President
Deseret Book Co.
Caren, That form letter has already been "shared" several time by earlier posts... please read the posts.
Along with Seagull book, Deseret Book is also not owned by the church. Some of the c.e.o.'s and people high up in the company are big church leaders, but that does not make it own by the church! The church owns the distribution centers but not own Deseret Book. Don't believe my? Call Deseret Book. Ask them, and they will tell you what I already said. Can you honestly picture the church owning a book store that carries some of the things they do. I also don't think the church would own a company that would be taking out other smaller church product sellers. The reason they aren't allowing Seagull Book to carry there stuff is obviouse... Seagull gives a better deal! They say it's because of how they mechendise there product, well that's another reason why there doing this. Seagull was established to give some of the smaller vendors a chance. That is how Covenant Communications has become so big. That is Seagulls main publisher (not Deseret book). I don't think it will hurt Seagull Book to bad. If they wanted, they could pull Covenant pruduct from them. But that would just be childish. Like this whole thing is!
@Stina C. - Your comments are inaccurate on many points.
Deseret Book is owned by Deseret Management Corporation which also owns KSL Television and Radio. Deseret Managements only stock holder is the LDS church.
As to "a book store that carries some of the things they do" are you referring to any particular product? If so, let them know so they can evaluate their decision to sell it. Don't make imflamatory statements without the indicating the "things" that so concern you.
Seagull giving a "better deal" is arguable. If you buy into everything advertising says I would suggest you be a more conscious consumer and think for yourself. I agree that it wont hurt Seagull Book because from my experience shopping there they don't stock much Deseret Book product. Maybe because they care more about Covenant product as you stated. Hey, maybe that's why they wont have the chance to purchase from Deseret Book anymore? Just a thought, and I believe where this whole story began.
Giving small vendors a chance? Where does that come from? Who are we talking about here? I find a far larger selection of just about anything I'm looking for when I shop at Deseret Book. Did I miss something here? Again, please provide some detail here if you are going to make a statement.
Lastly, I would suggest you stop posting if you do not have your facts straight...it just confuses others who don't think for themselves.
Deseret Book is owned by Deseret Management Corporation which also owns KSL Television and Radio. Deseret Managements only stock holder is the LDS church.
As to "a book store that carries some of the things they do" are you referring to any particular product? If so, let them know so they can evaluate their decision to sell it. Don't make imflamatory statements without the indicating the "things" that so concern you.
Seagull giving a "better deal" is arguable. If you buy into everything advertising says I would suggest you be a more conscious consumer and think for yourself. I agree that it wont hurt Seagull Book because from my experience shopping there they don't stock much Deseret Book product. Maybe because they care more about Covenant product as you stated. Hey, maybe that's why they wont have the chance to purchase from Deseret Book anymore? Just a thought, and I believe where this whole story began.
Giving small vendors a chance? Where does that come from? Who are we talking about here? I find a far larger selection of just about anything I'm looking for when I shop at Deseret Book. Did I miss something here? Again, please provide some detail here if you are going to make a statement.
Lastly, I would suggest you stop posting if you do not have your facts straight...it just confuses others who don't think for themselves.
@Stina C. - Who owns Deseret Book, Stina?
It is 100% owned by the Church, through Deseret Management. The corporation is set up the way it is in order to allow a non-profit, tax-exempt Church to own and operate for-profit businesses. (Which PAY TAXES, I hasten to add.) But the Church owns and operates Deseret Book.
I still think this is a non-story, but you should get your facts straight. If the Church doesn't own DB, who does?
It is 100% owned by the Church, through Deseret Management. The corporation is set up the way it is in order to allow a non-profit, tax-exempt Church to own and operate for-profit businesses. (Which PAY TAXES, I hasten to add.) But the Church owns and operates Deseret Book.
I still think this is a non-story, but you should get your facts straight. If the Church doesn't own DB, who does?
Seagull Book is what has forced Deseret Book to lower its prices over the years. Now they would rather eliminate the competition in order to increase profits. I have always shopped at Seagull Book because of their role in providing competition. I will continue to do so and I will be even more reluctant to step foot inside Deseret Book. SHAME ON YOU!
I see Deseret Book as the worst possible side of the mormon culture. Anything that relates to the gospel and the path to salvation can be bought through church distribution, basically at or below cost. The rest is fluff and it feeds a mormon subculture that really diverts from Christ's fundamental gospel. Having the latest Sheri Dew book, for some people, is as important as temple attendence, even though she no longer has a calling in the relief society and through her corporate position, can put her books front and center. That's probably what Seagull didn't market correctly. When telling one aquaintance my views a year or so ago he told me I must belong to the church of Satan. I later found out his family sold products to DB (I wish them luck). Deseret Book is as predatory as any secular business, and I would say, more so. When money and profit drive any element of the church, it becomes corrupted, something that is clearly addressed in the Book of Mormon: see priestcraft. I invite you to join me in boycotting Deseret Book.
@Chelsea C. - See what I mean? Here's somebody whok is obviously not LDS, or at most a jack-Mormon, telling us she's "boycotting Deseret Book."
That's as impressive as a Mormon boycotting Coors.
While you're at it, Chelsea, are you going to boycott all those Catholic paraphenelia stores selling candles and Virgin Mary statuettes? Or do you reserve all your ire for the LDS church?
How about the tens of thousands for "Born Again" bookstores across the country? Or Christian Science Reading Rooms?
How about the Vatican's little tourist shops? Did you know that you can order a Papal Blessing online?
There isn't a religion on the planet that doesn't sell stuff, you know. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.
I remeber when our hard-drinking, cigar-chomping jack-Mormon neighbor was furious about the Church allowing blacks to hold the priesthood. He told me dad that they needed to get their shotguns and go "defend the Temple." LOL! Verrrrry impressive. Dude hadn't darkened the inside of a church since he was a kid.
That's as impressive as a Mormon boycotting Coors.
While you're at it, Chelsea, are you going to boycott all those Catholic paraphenelia stores selling candles and Virgin Mary statuettes? Or do you reserve all your ire for the LDS church?
How about the tens of thousands for "Born Again" bookstores across the country? Or Christian Science Reading Rooms?
How about the Vatican's little tourist shops? Did you know that you can order a Papal Blessing online?
There isn't a religion on the planet that doesn't sell stuff, you know. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is.
I remeber when our hard-drinking, cigar-chomping jack-Mormon neighbor was furious about the Church allowing blacks to hold the priesthood. He told me dad that they needed to get their shotguns and go "defend the Temple." LOL! Verrrrry impressive. Dude hadn't darkened the inside of a church since he was a kid.
@Eric A. - I am a mormon, FYI, go to church every sunday. I just don't need all that commercial stuff to live correctly.
@Eric A. - Sounds like you have a major problem Eric. Only the Devil deals in absolutes. Just because other people do something does not mean that we should. To insinutate that someone who is focused on the essentials of the Gospel rather than on a bunch of fluff (which may or may not be good) and compare them to a racist pig and facists who opposed blacks holding the priesthood is a weak argument from a weak mind that only strengthens Chelsea's position. Sounds like you you should go back to Gospel Principles or even Primary and take a lesson or two in the "Judge Not" attribute of Christ-like origins.
I've never liked Deseret Book because of their schmaltzy ads they have on tv and radio. Their in-store billboards are a bit embarrassing as well.
Seagull is a great place to shop. The employees are friendly and often are avid readers who are willing to recommend some good books, unlike the service at Deseret Book. Thank goodness Seagull sells for a little less. Some of us have to watch our pennies, nickels and dimes. To me, Seagull is service, atmosphere and savings. Deseret Book likes the monopoly.........Who remembers Bookcraft?
@Kathleen S. - I've had nothing but good experiences shopping at Deseret Book. I can always find what I want and enjoy the atmosphere - I'm not sure what Deseret Book you've been to, but my local Desert Book is great.
There is nothing wrong with making money selling what you sell but it looks to me like Deseret Book wants to line their pocket a little thicker than necessary.
Seagull book didn't need to line their pockets.
No Conscience there.
Seagull book didn't need to line their pockets.
No Conscience there.
The right to publish the works of Gordon B. Hinckley is a privilege and a responsibility, not a market position to be used for competitive advantage.
I consider this to be an abuse of the interests of authors, retailers, and Church member/consumers. In a fair world, this should also add up to a lower payday for Deseret Book.
I consider this to be an abuse of the interests of authors, retailers, and Church member/consumers. In a fair world, this should also add up to a lower payday for Deseret Book.
Take a minute to write your thoughts to key people at Deseret Book:
dbwhsale@deseretbook.com, pwilliam@deseretbook.com, dbdirect@deseretbook.com, support@deseretbook.com, hrdept@deseretbook.com, dbol@deseretbook.com, jcrippen@deseretbook.com, gbrown@deseretbook.com, lmangum@deseretbook.com, rpowell@deseretbook.com, esheehan@deseretbook.com
I am personally planning a boycott. I consider this to be clear anti-competitive action on Deseret Book's part, and a move that will limit both members' and non-members' access to faith promoting materials in the name of financial gain. Deseret Book is acting directly in opposition to the mission of the Church, and I think they should hear about it.
On principle, I don't think I should shop at Deseret Book again until they renew the contract, and hope others will do the same.
Besides that, I think it is a bad business decision. They are marginalizing themselves as publishers by cutting out their second best distribution channel. (Not sure where Wal-Mart stands in the list, but in terms of traditional retail outlets...)
dbwhsale@deseretbook.com, pwilliam@deseretbook.com, dbdirect@deseretbook.com, support@deseretbook.com, hrdept@deseretbook.com, dbol@deseretbook.com, jcrippen@deseretbook.com, gbrown@deseretbook.com, lmangum@deseretbook.com, rpowell@deseretbook.com, esheehan@deseretbook.com
I am personally planning a boycott. I consider this to be clear anti-competitive action on Deseret Book's part, and a move that will limit both members' and non-members' access to faith promoting materials in the name of financial gain. Deseret Book is acting directly in opposition to the mission of the Church, and I think they should hear about it.
On principle, I don't think I should shop at Deseret Book again until they renew the contract, and hope others will do the same.
Besides that, I think it is a bad business decision. They are marginalizing themselves as publishers by cutting out their second best distribution channel. (Not sure where Wal-Mart stands in the list, but in terms of traditional retail outlets...)
Seagull is getting into trouble because of their own strategy. Seagull also does not buy from some other publishers, Eborn Books for instance, which has made it harder for Eborn Books. If DB does the same thing to Seagull, that Seagull does to others, then they can hardly complain. They are just finding themselves on the short end of the stick this time adn maybe its good for them to learn a lesson. Most interesting how what goes around comes around.
Whose tables would the LORD turnover in this situation? I'd imagine the hypocritical Deseret book! Which I hope isn't owned by the LDS church! If so I hope someone gets released in October.
-Jeff Nemelka
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
-Jeff Nemelka
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
@Jeff N. - Dear Jeff
Thank you for taking the time to inquire with us directly about our decision to no longer provide Deseret Book product to Seagull Book and Tape. We appreciate the chance to respond to your concerns. We also appreciate your candor and assume you expect the same in return.
Very simply, you are making assumptions and drawing conclusions that are not correct. We realize, of course, as we imagine you do, that it is nearly impossible to get the whole story from the media. Deseret Book’s decision to no longer sell its products to Seagull is not about competition. Surely this is obvious, based upon what is happening in the marketplace.
During recent years, we have dramatically increased, not decreased, the distribution of our products, which are now available and will continue to be available through literally thousands of outlets, including Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Costco, Walgreens, Barnes and Noble, FYE Stores, hundreds of independent LDS and general bookstores, Deseret Book stores, and Deseretbook.com. Further, every one of our titles is available on Amazon.com, which as you may know is an aggressive discounter.
Deseret Book and Seagull simply have differing views about how Deseret Book-branded product should be merchandised, promoted, displayed, and handled. We have come to our current decision after years of differences on these issues.
We appreciate your interest, and assure you that Deseret Book product is currently available in more locations and from more vendors than ever in its history.
We sincerely thank you for writing.
With warmest regards,
Jeff Simpson
Executive Vice President
Deseret Book Co
Thank you for taking the time to inquire with us directly about our decision to no longer provide Deseret Book product to Seagull Book and Tape. We appreciate the chance to respond to your concerns. We also appreciate your candor and assume you expect the same in return.
Very simply, you are making assumptions and drawing conclusions that are not correct. We realize, of course, as we imagine you do, that it is nearly impossible to get the whole story from the media. Deseret Book’s decision to no longer sell its products to Seagull is not about competition. Surely this is obvious, based upon what is happening in the marketplace.
During recent years, we have dramatically increased, not decreased, the distribution of our products, which are now available and will continue to be available through literally thousands of outlets, including Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Costco, Walgreens, Barnes and Noble, FYE Stores, hundreds of independent LDS and general bookstores, Deseret Book stores, and Deseretbook.com. Further, every one of our titles is available on Amazon.com, which as you may know is an aggressive discounter.
Deseret Book and Seagull simply have differing views about how Deseret Book-branded product should be merchandised, promoted, displayed, and handled. We have come to our current decision after years of differences on these issues.
We appreciate your interest, and assure you that Deseret Book product is currently available in more locations and from more vendors than ever in its history.
We sincerely thank you for writing.
With warmest regards,
Jeff Simpson
Executive Vice President
Deseret Book Co
@Jeff N. - Dear Mr. Simpson,
My wife let me know yesterday after I sent out my email I was jumping the gun! Although, I don't know the whole story, any time I see the Church involved with business issues it's hard to swallow. From my view point it still doesn't look right but if the brethren aren't jumping in. Then your right the media has swayed my opinion. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
Sincerely,
Jeff Nemelka
My wife let me know yesterday after I sent out my email I was jumping the gun! Although, I don't know the whole story, any time I see the Church involved with business issues it's hard to swallow. From my view point it still doesn't look right but if the brethren aren't jumping in. Then your right the media has swayed my opinion. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
Sincerely,
Jeff Nemelka
Any good Mormon wouldn't shop at either store. Last time I checked selling your testimony for money was Preistcraft. So we are no better that other Christian churches instead of paying our preachers for what they say over the pulpit we pretend its ok because it's through a book deal. If you think Wal-Mart is selling LDS books as a loss leader you are very uninformed on profit margins in the publishing industry. There is no reason to sell books for a loss to get Mormons to shop at a discount retailer, we are cheap. Deseret Book is simply trying to eliminate its competition so the owners can buy bigger homes by prostituting the testimonies of the apostles.
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11:06pm - Wed Jul 12th, 2006
and I quote "discount prices are the reason."
WWJD?
Probably barf.
8:07am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
We pay Dr's, psychologists, counselors, lawyers, security guards, bakers, chefs, secretaries, janitor's, or any other profession to help this cause, but if you have an artistic talent developed - you just can not make a living.
This is becoming part of the problem.
Walking into Deseret Book and see that they are selling Harry Potter Books and Hillary Clinton Books along with other secular material. If the purity of content is desired, then why does D.B. sell these types of books also?
If this news is true: Deseret Book should treat Seagull Book how Deseret Book would want Seagull Book to treat them.
3:03pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
If Deseret Book wants to have a monopoly, why don't they cut off all the hundreds of independent LDS bookstores (like Ensign Book in SoCal where my parents live) that carry Deseret Book products?
I suspect that the reasoning runs a little deeper, though I'm not sure what the explanation is. At the end of the day, it seems like all the Seagull Books have essentially been opened up just a stones throw or two away from an existing Deseret Book store anyway (what a coincidence. . .), so it shouldn't be too hard to find Deseret Book titles without going too far. I'm not sure what the big deal is.
4:42pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
In Ogden, UT there was a Seagull Book Store there for a long time. Just recently, a Deseret Book Store opened just a block away from that too.
There has to be more good LDS artists and products to spread goodness to the world. Why is it such a closed market? We are taught not to hide our talents under a bushel, but others force the bushel on top of others to shut them out. How sad, this is not the way it was meant to be - business or not.
4:28pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Deseret Book has every right to choose who carries their products, and what products they will carry. Seagull has every right to do the same. Both companies will prosper or perish based on making wise business decisions.
8:03am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
10:20am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Folks, doctrine does not come from Deseret Book and if you aren’t even studying the real scriptures, why would you heap to yourselves mounds of published commentary and caricature in lieu of the essence that is in the Bible and Book of Mormon?
2:48pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
And the great news is........everyone has their own opinion and buys what they want. It's called "agency" and it appears to be working.....
Pleasant reading (whatever that means at any one time) to you and everyone else!
"I am an American Original and yes, I spoke for myself" (no others need apply)
2:43pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
5:26pm - Fri Jul 14th, 2006
Why is Deseret Book so popular? Well for starters, they have a ready audience of LDS faithful who like to do business with LDS owned businesses, and they control the production and distribution of hundreds of titles that are specifically targeted at an LDS audience.
If they can corner the market on the distribution of those books written by squeezing out their competitors, they get all the business and they can charge whatever they want.
And before anyone cries foul, or thinks I'm bashing Mormons, please understand that I used to frequent the DB in the ZCMI Center and I thought it was a great store -- that is was church-owned was of no relevance to me.
As I said in an earlier post, DB has every right to control the distribution of their own products, but I see DB making a calculated business decision to squeeze out the competition. It it is a win-win for DB. Unfortunately, it will probably end up costing everyone more money in the long run.
6:05am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
12:22pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
5:54am - Fri Jul 14th, 2006
8:44am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
10:16am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
10:56am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
11:07am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Anything else you need from Mr. All-Knowing?
11:14am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Interesting you actually like that title. Ready to be translated already are ya?
11:30am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Priest craft stems from the sale of saving ordinances. This was one of M. Luther’s big problems in his 95 Thesis. The sale of indulgences to free dead relatives from limbo or Hell. Those at Christ’s time also traded salvation for land, livestock or money. It was condemned by Jesus. Selling books is not priest craft only taking advantage of WC Fields’ old adage.
11:41am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Wish I could get rich from selling gospel books.
I bet Gerald Lund loves Gospel, for more reasons than one!
12:11pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
But she agreed with me Tracey, so ridicule away.
12:19pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Her statement isn't correct anyway. Looking at a well used LDS book: "priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world"
I'm absolutely sure that all authors that publish with Deseret Book don't relish in the cash or praise at all. I'm sure they are all completely humble.
12:29pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Your sarcasm is humorless.
12:43pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
12:54pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Yep, a business. A business to make money. A for profit business, just as mike puts it. And what do they sell? Gospel topics.
Nope, no gain here. No praise here. Nope, not at all. None.
Seems like Mike would quit contradicting himself.
I think I've seen similar logic with a presidential hopeful by the last name of Kerry...
1:06pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
That is a mighty leap indeed.
1:46pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
If I made bank off even the most humble text I had written, I'm sure I would struggle keeping my head size to normal and sending the cash in proper directions.
12:15pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
12:31pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
12:49pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Thanks for your comments, JAIME!!
12:56pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
To be honest, I wrote Sister Dew just on this topic, and received a very good reply that satisfies the question quite well.
Wish I had the e-mail of everyone with the same question. I'd forward it on. She's just awesome.
1:05pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
5:57am - Fri Jul 14th, 2006
1:02pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Like, for example, requiring a full-tithe be paid for admittance into a temple.
1:07pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
1:28pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
1:50pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
2:42pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
What other issues don't you understand?
3:40pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
2:24pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Are you aware that a temple recommend interview does NOT involve an examination of a member's tithing records? They ask you if you consider yourself to be a "full tithe payer." Your answer is between yourself and God. You can lie, if you wish, but what would be the point? At any rate, nobody is going to check up on you. Your bishop would know that you're lying through your teeth, but if you insist on answering "yes" then it counts as a "yes." That's actually true of every other aspect of the interviews. The bishop may be the guy asking the questions, but the answers are being directed to God. The member "judges" himself.
Money isn't inherently evil. Even the "pursuit of money" need not be evil. What it's used for and how it's obtained is sometimes evil.
4:30pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
5:08am - Fri Jul 14th, 2006
8:44am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
12:05pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Crazy is relative...you may think posts by others are crazy when in fact, other people may think that you posts are crazy, especially when you consider yourself all-knowing.
12:20pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
my apologies.
9:56am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
8:57am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
10:27am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
11:19am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
11:50am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
12:51pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
11:27am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
2:26pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
Hate is not a family value. (To quote a bumper sticker that is usually accompanied by a "darwin fish.")
Where, exactly, is "up in Heaven?" Mormons just have a name for the actual location, that's all. It's the same thing.
2:37pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
11:19am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
11:42am - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
11:06am - Fri Dec 29th, 2006
12:13pm - Thu Jul 13th, 2006
9:56pm - Tue Jun 05th, 2007
DESERET BOOK HAS BEEN TRYING TO MONOPOLIZE THE INDUSTRY FOR YEARS!!! THEY MAY BE OWNED BY A CO THAT IS OWNED BY THE CHURCH, BUT THE CHURCH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MANAGERIAL SIDE OF THE BUSINESS.
[Please don't shout with ALL CAPS.]