Editor: Statistics show fast LDS Church growth
An editor of a yearbook of church
demographics says year-to-year membership statistics for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints place the Utah-based faith among the fastest-growing
religious traditions in the U.S. and Canada. April 10th, 2009 @ 4:42pm
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Like myself which is also included, sure there are many Mormons but how many actually go to church every week? Statistics don't tell the whole story.
@Billy_Jack - go to church other than on Christmas and Easter?
What you say is true of all religions!
What you say is true of all religions!
@swimgurl_08 - I don't think he is really a member. Just showing us how he thinks they are. Hence the link to his homepage.
@Billy_Jack - annotate this study, you must also consider the activity levels of all the denominations.
@StroDawg - Not comparisons although I would bet Muslims have a higher turnout.
@Billy_Jack - "An editor of a yearbook of church demographics says year-to-year membership statistics for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints place the Utah-based faith Among The Fastest-growing Religious Traditions In The U.S. And Canada." That looks like it's a story about a comparison of many religious traditions in the U.S. and Canada.
The so called "Professional demographers" are just as reliable as the "Professional Archeologists" working for BYU who insist in defending the Book of Mormon as a historic by manipulating data from the great Mayans, Olmecs, Incas and others.
@Joe the Bidder - But I have to agree with Joe the Bidder. What it boils down to is who really cares how fast any church "membership' is growing. This isn't a competition with lets see who can have the most members. If the LDS church didn’t count the baptism for the dead then their numbers wouldn’t reflect so high. On the other hand, what difference does it make how they decide to count their membership? It’s their church and their following. I believe that most of the members of that religion have the wherewithal to see things for what they really are. I could be wrong and often am, but what is the point in leading a horse to water if you know it isn’t going to drink it? Just a though…
The Last Angry Man
The Last Angry Man
@LostinAmerica - If (and it is a huge, not even true, IF), they did, they'd have FAR more than $13.5 Million members...Think about it for a moment;
-124 working temples (I think), all working 5 days a week, performing baptisms for the dead all five days...if each temple did 100 baptisms a day (but trust me, they do far more than that), that is 12,500 new members a day or 62,000 a week and 3,224,000 per year (62,000 X 52 weeks per year). At that rate we'd add 13.5 million members every four years.
And since the church is nearly 180 years old, and has been doing baptisms for the nearly all of those years...if we were counting baptisms for the dead as membership numbers, we'd probably be to almost a half billion members by now (maybe more...)
But lets not let a little bit of logic enter this discussion....no room for that, not when people are too busy talking about things they don't understand...logic ruins all the fun.
-124 working temples (I think), all working 5 days a week, performing baptisms for the dead all five days...if each temple did 100 baptisms a day (but trust me, they do far more than that), that is 12,500 new members a day or 62,000 a week and 3,224,000 per year (62,000 X 52 weeks per year). At that rate we'd add 13.5 million members every four years.
And since the church is nearly 180 years old, and has been doing baptisms for the nearly all of those years...if we were counting baptisms for the dead as membership numbers, we'd probably be to almost a half billion members by now (maybe more...)
But lets not let a little bit of logic enter this discussion....no room for that, not when people are too busy talking about things they don't understand...logic ruins all the fun.
@Dj G. - You know they recycle the names right? It's not a unique baptism everytime they do it unless you have new names that you brought with you. Same with all of the other ordinances. Even your prized "secret name" is the same as everyone elses that went through that same day. The real reason for the temple ordinances and them providing names and recycling them is because they need a reason for you to go back OFTEN. Because the more you go the deeper down their little rabbit hole you go.
@LostinAmerica - the difference here is that people are fed up with the lds church making false statements about their growth, their morality, their innocense, and their history, and people of all walks of life, both christian and non-christian are calling them out on their arrogant statements.
Not sure any one religion can provide accurate headcounts but I know my wife has written the LDS church and asked them to remove her and each year she still gets letters from the local stake people.
Sure they have fast growth but I think the Catholics and Muslims growth alone in just births would out pace anything out there.
Sure they have fast growth but I think the Catholics and Muslims growth alone in just births would out pace anything out there.
@are youserious - There is a huge difference. Those babies have no choice. They have to do it whether or not they want to!
@swimgurl_08 - How is it different? I'm pretty sure that LDS babies are brought up to follow the faith, just like the Catholics, Muslims, Jews and every other religion and culture.
Most people follow the faith and culture of their parents, and certainly LDS children do, perhaps even more so than many other religions.
Most people follow the faith and culture of their parents, and certainly LDS children do, perhaps even more so than many other religions.
@Robert O. - oh im sorry, i didn't realize that there wasn't a difference between a new born and an 8 year old child...my bad
@swimgurl_08 - Because 8 year olds completely understand the importance of the decision to join a religion.
@sassywoman - I certainly think that they understand a heck of a lot more than an infant does...sorry...but i am right on this one!
@swimgurl_08 - I didn't say infants and 8 yr olds are the exact same. They do understand more than an infant. However you will never convince me that any child understands exactly what it means to join a religion.
@Robert O. - This is an excellent point. Do people really think that 8 year olds understand ANYTHING about religion or would even care unless their parents indocrinate them from birth? Of course not. Look at the wikipedia article for "Mind Control" and study in awe of the similar techniques used by the LDS church and other cults and new age movements. It's astounding and highly insightful.
PLEASSE JUST THINK FOR A MOMENT.
Is there any proof that the pre-columbian tribes had any knowledge of Christianity, even knowing Jesus by his name? There is not, and if BYU's archeologists are showing you some they are plainly lying to you. It's that simple.
Is there any proof that the pre-columbian tribes had any knowledge of Christianity, even knowing Jesus by his name? There is not, and if BYU's archeologists are showing you some they are plainly lying to you. It's that simple.
@Joe the Bidder - I thought religion was about faith?
@StroDawg - StroDawg,
Faith must, sooner or later, be replaced by knowledge.
Faith ultimately will not save you.
Faith must, sooner or later, be replaced by knowledge.
Faith ultimately will not save you.
@Hardtaill - You obviously do not know what faith is. Faith was not created by God in order to defend against facts that disprove what you believe.
Faith is based on evidence, not hope.
Faith is believing that God will fulfill what He has promised. We christians believe that He will continue to fulfill what He has promised us because of the EVIDENCE that we have already experienced from Him.
The EVIDENCE of God standing by His promises to Us.
The EVIDENCE of the Holy Spirit.
The EVIDENCE of the Power of the Blood of Jesus Christ.
It is probably hard for you to understand these concepts coming from mormonism but we will continue to pray for you.
Again, Faith is not something you are supposed to utilize to live in blatant ignorance of the facts.
Faith is based on evidence, not hope.
Faith is believing that God will fulfill what He has promised. We christians believe that He will continue to fulfill what He has promised us because of the EVIDENCE that we have already experienced from Him.
The EVIDENCE of God standing by His promises to Us.
The EVIDENCE of the Holy Spirit.
The EVIDENCE of the Power of the Blood of Jesus Christ.
It is probably hard for you to understand these concepts coming from mormonism but we will continue to pray for you.
Again, Faith is not something you are supposed to utilize to live in blatant ignorance of the facts.
@Joe the Bidder - if you already have your own answer?
Are you really curious or simply looking to put others down? That's the real question!
Are you really curious or simply looking to put others down? That's the real question!
@Joe the Bidder - Do a Google search on "Quetzalcoatl" or "Cortes + Bearded White God". Have you ever researched the similarities between Aztec temples and the Temple of Solomon?
There's a couple starting points for you.
WARNING: you are going to have to use some brain power and connect the dots a bit.
There's a couple starting points for you.
WARNING: you are going to have to use some brain power and connect the dots a bit.
@hardbooter - To say that Quetzalcoatl, who by the way was worshiped since at least 1500 B.C, is a reference to Jesus is an example of the kind of work done by the LDS Church paid "Professional Archelogists" at BYU. Look outside your culture to learn, don't let yourself be fooled. The LDS church owes an apology for all of these false informarion and affront it constantly makes to the Aztek and Mayan cultures.
@Joe the Bidder - To say that Christ, who by the way was also worshiped since at least 1500 B.C., could in no way have been referenced to by the name Quetzalcoatl is foolish and closed minded. Look outside your own understanding and don't let your pride lead to ignorance.
This is exactly why this debate will forever remain a stalemate. Take care Joe.
This is exactly why this debate will forever remain a stalemate. Take care Joe.
@hardbooter - Otherwise the Jews would recognize him as their savior. The god of the Old Testament is not Jesus. If so, tell me where it says that... and don't say the New Testament. Because that would just be rediculuous.
@Joe the Bidder - Although I doubt you will read all of this. A Catholic Friar Diego de Landa recorded the practice of "Baptism" in his records in 1566 (239 years before Joseph Smith was born) the following (Which, BTW, wasn't tranlsted into English until 1978. Reference book: Yucatan Before and After the Conquest):
Sec. XXVI. Method of baptism in Yucatan; How it was celebrated
Baptism is not found anywhere in the Indies save here in Yucatan, and even with a word meaning to be born anew or a second time, the same as the Latin word renascer. Thus, in the language of Yucatan sihil means 'to be born anew," or a second time, but only however in composition; thus caput-sihil means to be reborn. Its origin we have been unable to learn, but it is something they have always used and for which they have had such devotion that no one fails to receive it; they had such reverence for it that those guilty of sins, or who knew they were about to sin, were obliged to confess to the priest, in order to receive it; and they had such faith in it that in no manner did they ever take ft a second time. They believed that in receiving it they acquired a predisposition to good conduct and habits, protection against being harmed by the devils in their earthly affairs, and that through it and living a good life they would attain a beatitude hereafter which, like that of Mahomet, consisted in eating and drinking.
Their custom of preparing for baptism was as follows: the Indian women raised the children to the age of three, placing for the boys a small white plaquet, fastened to the head in the hair of the tonsure; the girls wore a thin cord tied very low about the waist, to which was attached a small shell over the private parts; to remove these two things was regarded among them as a sin and disgraceful, until the time of the baptism, which was given between the ages of three and twelve; until this ceremony was received they did not marry.
Whenever one desired to have his child baptised, he went to the priest and made his wish known to him, who then published this in the town, with the day chosen, which they took care should be of good omen. This being done, the solicitant, being thus charged with giving the fiesta, selected at his discretion some leading man of the town to assist him in the matter. Afterwards they chose four other old and honored men to assist the priest on the day of the ceremony, these being chosen with the priest's cooperation. In these elections the fathers of all the eligible children took part, for the fiesta was a concern of all; those so chosen were called Chacs. For the three days before the ceremony the parents of the children, as well as the officials, fasted and abstained from their wives.
On the day, all assembled at the house of the one giving the fiesta, and brought all the children who were to be baptized, and placed them In the patio or court of the house, all clean and scattered with fresh leaves; the boys together in a line, and the girls the same, with an aged woman as matron for the girls, and a man in charge of the boys. . . .
[Landa then describes how the priest purifies the house and casts out demons, and refers to the priest carrying a hyssop made of a short stick and the tales of serpents like rattlesnakes (the aspersarium).]
The chacs then went to the children and placed on the heads of all white cloths which the mothers had brought for this purpose. They then asked of the largest ones whether they had done any bad thing, or obscene conduct, and if any had done so, they confessed them and separated from the others.
When this was done the priest called on all to be silent and seated, and began to bless the children, with long prayers, and to sanctify them with the hyssop, all with great serenity. After this benediction he seated himself, and the one elected by the parents as director of the fiesta took a bone given him by the priest, went to the children and menaced each one with the bone on the forehead, nine times. After this he wet the bond in a jar of water he carried, and with it anointed them on the forehead, the face, and between the fingers of their hands and the bones of their feet, without saying a word. The liquor was confected out of certain flowers and ground cacao, dissolved in virgin water, as they call it, taken from the hollows of trees or of rocks in the forest. . . .
The fiesta then ended with long eating and drinking; and the fiesta was called em-ku, which means 'the descent of the god.'
Sec. XXVI. Method of baptism in Yucatan; How it was celebrated
Baptism is not found anywhere in the Indies save here in Yucatan, and even with a word meaning to be born anew or a second time, the same as the Latin word renascer. Thus, in the language of Yucatan sihil means 'to be born anew," or a second time, but only however in composition; thus caput-sihil means to be reborn. Its origin we have been unable to learn, but it is something they have always used and for which they have had such devotion that no one fails to receive it; they had such reverence for it that those guilty of sins, or who knew they were about to sin, were obliged to confess to the priest, in order to receive it; and they had such faith in it that in no manner did they ever take ft a second time. They believed that in receiving it they acquired a predisposition to good conduct and habits, protection against being harmed by the devils in their earthly affairs, and that through it and living a good life they would attain a beatitude hereafter which, like that of Mahomet, consisted in eating and drinking.
Their custom of preparing for baptism was as follows: the Indian women raised the children to the age of three, placing for the boys a small white plaquet, fastened to the head in the hair of the tonsure; the girls wore a thin cord tied very low about the waist, to which was attached a small shell over the private parts; to remove these two things was regarded among them as a sin and disgraceful, until the time of the baptism, which was given between the ages of three and twelve; until this ceremony was received they did not marry.
Whenever one desired to have his child baptised, he went to the priest and made his wish known to him, who then published this in the town, with the day chosen, which they took care should be of good omen. This being done, the solicitant, being thus charged with giving the fiesta, selected at his discretion some leading man of the town to assist him in the matter. Afterwards they chose four other old and honored men to assist the priest on the day of the ceremony, these being chosen with the priest's cooperation. In these elections the fathers of all the eligible children took part, for the fiesta was a concern of all; those so chosen were called Chacs. For the three days before the ceremony the parents of the children, as well as the officials, fasted and abstained from their wives.
On the day, all assembled at the house of the one giving the fiesta, and brought all the children who were to be baptized, and placed them In the patio or court of the house, all clean and scattered with fresh leaves; the boys together in a line, and the girls the same, with an aged woman as matron for the girls, and a man in charge of the boys. . . .
[Landa then describes how the priest purifies the house and casts out demons, and refers to the priest carrying a hyssop made of a short stick and the tales of serpents like rattlesnakes (the aspersarium).]
The chacs then went to the children and placed on the heads of all white cloths which the mothers had brought for this purpose. They then asked of the largest ones whether they had done any bad thing, or obscene conduct, and if any had done so, they confessed them and separated from the others.
When this was done the priest called on all to be silent and seated, and began to bless the children, with long prayers, and to sanctify them with the hyssop, all with great serenity. After this benediction he seated himself, and the one elected by the parents as director of the fiesta took a bone given him by the priest, went to the children and menaced each one with the bone on the forehead, nine times. After this he wet the bond in a jar of water he carried, and with it anointed them on the forehead, the face, and between the fingers of their hands and the bones of their feet, without saying a word. The liquor was confected out of certain flowers and ground cacao, dissolved in virgin water, as they call it, taken from the hollows of trees or of rocks in the forest. . . .
The fiesta then ended with long eating and drinking; and the fiesta was called em-ku, which means 'the descent of the god.'
@Conejo - Joseph has been translating more brass plates. This is a really weird way to prove anything. This story could be made up from any group of heathen rituals just like all other religious hoo doo.
@plant doctor - Natives having a religious practice of confessing sins to their religious leaders and using water to be spiritually cleansed and as a way of being "reborn" which, BTW was said to be taught them by Quetzacuatl (The white bearded God who was to return one day)in no way supports the idea that Jesus may have come to the Americas.
I wonder where they got such strange ideas as the tradition of a white person when they were all darker skinned. You do remember that the Conquistadors took advantage of their fair skin and this legend in order to conquer them right? I guess the dang Mormons were controlling the Spanish (and Catholic) recorder's of history hundreds of years before Joseph Smith was alive. Wow, he really was a genius!
I wonder where they got such strange ideas as the tradition of a white person when they were all darker skinned. You do remember that the Conquistadors took advantage of their fair skin and this legend in order to conquer them right? I guess the dang Mormons were controlling the Spanish (and Catholic) recorder's of history hundreds of years before Joseph Smith was alive. Wow, he really was a genius!
@Joe the Bidder - . . .so unlike the Bible where there is tons and tons of archeological proof that Jesus lived in Isreal? There is not one shred of proof, archeologically speaking, to prove 90% of the Bible, yet it is the most read and accepted book in the world.
And the Book of Mormon:
#1 They have found Horse bones that date pre-columbian
#2 Elephant tusks found, displayed in Mexico City Museum, and on stone stella's in Guatemala.
#3 Nasa Satelite showing huge cities that stretch from Belize to Mexico City.
All three of these evidences, not found by BYU archeologists, debunk previous anti-Book of Mormon propaganda. But, it doesn't matter the Book of Mormon is a book of faith, just like the Bible.
And the Book of Mormon:
#1 They have found Horse bones that date pre-columbian
#2 Elephant tusks found, displayed in Mexico City Museum, and on stone stella's in Guatemala.
#3 Nasa Satelite showing huge cities that stretch from Belize to Mexico City.
All three of these evidences, not found by BYU archeologists, debunk previous anti-Book of Mormon propaganda. But, it doesn't matter the Book of Mormon is a book of faith, just like the Bible.
@iraklion - #1. Untrue
#2. Untrue. The mastodon elephant arrived in America during the Miocene epoch. Not even Joseph Smith when writing the Book of Mormon made the absurd assertion that Lehi brought an elephant here.
#3. Irrelevant. I know nothing about this but many ideas can vary from it. It contributes nothing to the fantastic yet unsubstantiated claims from the Book of Mormon.
#2. Untrue. The mastodon elephant arrived in America during the Miocene epoch. Not even Joseph Smith when writing the Book of Mormon made the absurd assertion that Lehi brought an elephant here.
#3. Irrelevant. I know nothing about this but many ideas can vary from it. It contributes nothing to the fantastic yet unsubstantiated claims from the Book of Mormon.
@Joe the Bidder - Never said that Lehi brought the Elephant, you don't have a clue do you. You need to get your facts straight and take a visit to the Mexico City Museum. They do have horse bones, and of course you think it is irrelevant that there was once a vast population, because it proves you wrong.
@iraklion - To just believe as absolute, the random comments of people over time, than to research, with truth as your goal, the mysterious of heaven.
I once had a person tell me the Book of Mormon couldn't possibly be equal to the Bible because Jesus Christ himself had written the Bible and the Book of Mormon was written by a man. When I broke down to him exactly what the Bible was, he decided it WAS possible for the BOM to be similar to it.
I once had a person tell me the Book of Mormon couldn't possibly be equal to the Bible because Jesus Christ himself had written the Bible and the Book of Mormon was written by a man. When I broke down to him exactly what the Bible was, he decided it WAS possible for the BOM to be similar to it.
@Conejo - comparing the bom to the bible is like comparing a piece of mud to a diamond.
there is NO comparison.
there is NO comparison.
@iraklion - When I was 5 my daddy told me that there was an alien that lived in our garage. He talked to it and got advice about how to live his life. He told me about it every day. Now I tell my kids about our resident alien every day too! We KNOW in our hearts that he is out there when we need him. I saw him just once and asked him where he came from. I've been looking at astronomical charts ever since and still can't seem to find Planet Bull@#%$. Oh, but I will.....
@iraklion - I'm curious however if you believe all the other scientific methods of dating remains, or only the ones that corroborate what you need. Besides the horse thing is so far from being the only anachronistic nonsense in the BoM that even if they used the word horse for some other animal or any of the other desperate shoehorning FAIR and other groups try, it's a tiny drop in a large bucket.
@iraklion - YOu are very sorely misinformed about the absolutely overwhelming archaelogical and historical evidence of the validity of the bible, it's peoples, it's lands, etc etc.
The bible is the (MOST) proven record of any book on the earth archaelogically and historically.
I don't know where you are getting your information, but you may want to tell you sunday school teacher to read a book other than the bom once in a while.
And as far as the bom goes, there has never been ANYTHING proven historically or archaelogically correct from it's declarations.
IN fact, the book has been proven a sham over and over again.
So how dare you criticize the bible and promote that stupid blue book your organization created, there is no comparison between the two.
The bible is the (MOST) proven record of any book on the earth archaelogically and historically.
I don't know where you are getting your information, but you may want to tell you sunday school teacher to read a book other than the bom once in a while.
And as far as the bom goes, there has never been ANYTHING proven historically or archaelogically correct from it's declarations.
IN fact, the book has been proven a sham over and over again.
So how dare you criticize the bible and promote that stupid blue book your organization created, there is no comparison between the two.
@Joe the Bidder - Study Quetzalcoatl. No proof will be good enough for you. You have already decided it is not true and the truth is that God is proving us - not the other way around.
Hopefully you will bring your lawyers during the final judgement then maybe you can "argue" your demand of proof.
Hopefully you will bring your lawyers during the final judgement then maybe you can "argue" your demand of proof.
@Joe the Bidder - look for a book called, "He walked the Americas" very interesting book, written and compiled by a non-LDS historian interested in the oral traditions of the American indians.
@Joe the Bidder - in the translation process the word Christ and Christian were used for the terminology employed by the writers of the text?
@Addicus - Christian came as a description of the mannerism of the believers in those times in Antioch, not as an organized religion, but as a way of life.
Just because they're growing doesn't make them anymore right. Oh shoot.. sorry, someone had to say it. You can troll me, I understand :)
@CNISH - anymore wrong. I don't expect you to believe as I believe, but growth shows that some are hearing the message and believing.
@CNISH - with any kids who thought they were always right and everyone else was wrong? As if they were the one and only true student?
I did. I hated that kid and so did everybody else, including the teachers.
I did. I hated that kid and so did everybody else, including the teachers.
@That smart guy - You're telling me! I went to school with a bunch of mormons!
No other religion in these days has come under greater scrutiny, persecution and experienced such disgusting vile diatribe from people of other faiths - such as many of you who have commented - than the LDS Church. Such perversion of tolerance and love for others, as most religions boast to have but rarely display, each of you who spew such rabble should be ashamed of.
Go ahead an troll me - show your true colors. Having been a member of and studied many religions as either an interested party or out of professional necessity, I have noticed that those who are truly faithful, regardless of their religion, will be tolerant and respectful of all other religions because most have similar basic beliefs in either God or a great deity and have similar values of being kind to others.
Go ahead an troll me - show your true colors. Having been a member of and studied many religions as either an interested party or out of professional necessity, I have noticed that those who are truly faithful, regardless of their religion, will be tolerant and respectful of all other religions because most have similar basic beliefs in either God or a great deity and have similar values of being kind to others.
@Libertatis - I didn't troll you. You have every right to your opinion. I just disagree with the whole victim role you've given the LDS church. Two words: 9/11 Muslims. If anything ever since 9/11 Muslims have been given a bad rep in the US. There's mistrust and blind convictions that any Muslim is capable of doing the same thing. Even Catholic priests have been given a bad rep due to the perverted few who have victimized children.
@Libertatis - I would argue the Muslin faith has come under more scruitny, especially since 9/11
@Mott - I thought muslin was some type of cloth.
@plant doctor - No, you are thinking of an afghan, it's ok i am pretty sure that is a common mistake.
@Mott - if you base it on the posts on KSL.com, he's probably right about LDS being most persecuted. :-)
@Mott - True, Muslims have come under severe scrutiny and persecution since 9/11. but, go back to 1820(The first Vision.) until the Saints left Nauvoo, they had the most persecution. Since the beginning of time, the true followers of Jesus Christ have had evil against them.
@Libertatis - Joseph Smith claimed God told him all the Christian churches are corrupt and their creeds abominations (Joseph Smith history 1:19 B.H Roberts said "Orthodox Christian views are Pagan rather than Christian (Mormon doctrine of deity by B.H. Roberts) Brigham Young said " I saw all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" Brigham Young JD 8:199 John Taylor said "What are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best". (John Taylor, JD 13:225) Bruce R. Mckonkie said "believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce Mckonkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177) So why do they not interpret these sayings as bashing or hate?
@Libertatis - Tell your missionary friends to stop coming by my house, saying that my entire family will [removed] if we don't get baptised in the moron church. Because that sure isn't "being kind to others."
@Libertatis - Oh, now you have opened a real can of you are going to be embarrassed.
Lets' start with the first paragraph.
"No other religion in these days has come under greater scrutiny, persecution and experienced such disgusting vile diatribe from people of other faiths - such as many of you who have commented - than the LDS Church"
NO OTHER ORGANIZATION has ever said that every other denomination and religion is false and everything that they teach is an abomination to God!!!
You started the fight with the big kid and now you are crying because you are getting beat up??!!
and the last part of the first paragraph.
"Such perversion of tolerance and love for others, as most religions boast to have but rarely display, each of you who spew such rabble should be ashamed of"
REad your history and take a gook long look at mormons today, they are the last people in utah that I can think of that have any right to judge ANYONE else of being INTOLERANT!
I do agree with your second statement though. Too bad that this attitude does not exist as a (whole) in mormonism.
Lets' start with the first paragraph.
"No other religion in these days has come under greater scrutiny, persecution and experienced such disgusting vile diatribe from people of other faiths - such as many of you who have commented - than the LDS Church"
NO OTHER ORGANIZATION has ever said that every other denomination and religion is false and everything that they teach is an abomination to God!!!
You started the fight with the big kid and now you are crying because you are getting beat up??!!
and the last part of the first paragraph.
"Such perversion of tolerance and love for others, as most religions boast to have but rarely display, each of you who spew such rabble should be ashamed of"
REad your history and take a gook long look at mormons today, they are the last people in utah that I can think of that have any right to judge ANYONE else of being INTOLERANT!
I do agree with your second statement though. Too bad that this attitude does not exist as a (whole) in mormonism.
People get scared (currently it is the bad economy, previously 9/11) all religions see big upticks in memberships. It is part of human nature to turn to God (or Buddah, Allah, whatever the faith) in hopes that prayer will improve their lives.
The numbers don't suprpise me....I would almost me most demoninations see a rise right now.
The numbers don't suprpise me....I would almost me most demoninations see a rise right now.
@LostinSLC - That's only partially true, difficult times also cause a great lose in faith. During the black death in Europe their were many that ran to God and church, and many that figured life was short. No God would allow this to happen and its time to live before we die.
The biggest fraud of this religion is that they keep you on the records as a mormom even if you want to leave it. You have to go through a broad of memebers to be determined if you are worthy or removal...nice move to make it seem like the cult is growing!
The only place that you will read this story is in Utah anyhow!
Well, if there's 13.5 million members and less than half, say 6 million, are active, and one is 6 is a wage-earner who is tithing $100 a month on average, that's 100 million tithers and that's about $100 million a month in revenue, or $1.2 billion annually...
Pretty impressive revenue numbers, so there's lots of money that can be used to help mankind, right? Wouldn't it be great to see the financial statement and balance sheet, and see how these contributions are used to help?
As for me (not religious by choice, Methodist by birth and upbringing), I'd rather spend my Sundays skiing, hiking, riding my motorcycle, rock-climbing and snuggling with my sweetheart - enjoying the incredible world created by a non-religious Spirit of love and compassion, one who is more concerned with the happiness of a person than with their religious persuasion and choice of church.
Love and religion just seem to be too far apart - too much hatred, anger and venomous attacks in the name of religion. Whether it's the Crusades or Jihad or the attacks/trolls that will be swarming my reply, too much anger. Religion doesn't unite our souls, it seems, but rather ignites us by dividing us.
Love, love, love is the answer, and we're all in this world, in this universe, together, living life and hopefully treating our fellow human beings with respect and love.
For those who believe religion is the answer, and that your religion is THE answer, peace and love to you.
Pretty impressive revenue numbers, so there's lots of money that can be used to help mankind, right? Wouldn't it be great to see the financial statement and balance sheet, and see how these contributions are used to help?
As for me (not religious by choice, Methodist by birth and upbringing), I'd rather spend my Sundays skiing, hiking, riding my motorcycle, rock-climbing and snuggling with my sweetheart - enjoying the incredible world created by a non-religious Spirit of love and compassion, one who is more concerned with the happiness of a person than with their religious persuasion and choice of church.
Love and religion just seem to be too far apart - too much hatred, anger and venomous attacks in the name of religion. Whether it's the Crusades or Jihad or the attacks/trolls that will be swarming my reply, too much anger. Religion doesn't unite our souls, it seems, but rather ignites us by dividing us.
Love, love, love is the answer, and we're all in this world, in this universe, together, living life and hopefully treating our fellow human beings with respect and love.
For those who believe religion is the answer, and that your religion is THE answer, peace and love to you.
@Robert O. - 1 million tithers at $100 per month equals the $100 million per month calculated... Tither calculation in error, sorry! :-)
@Robert O. - Righto. You think the average wage is only $1000 per month for those tithers? Because, don't they have to pay 10% of their wages? I bet it's more like $200+ per month they have to tithe. Doesn't matter. Just wondering.
@mtnexplorer - You could be right, but I was trying to be conservative and also take into account that a lot of new LDS converts are coming from other countries where wages could be very low - I figured $100 a month would be a minimum.
Have a great day.
Have a great day.
@Robert O. - Thanks for a very honest comment. I too prefer to enjoy God's creations on the weekends.
However, I don't think religions are meant to divide us but with man made mind frames and interpretations such as "one true religion/church" it ends up dividing us.
However, I don't think religions are meant to divide us but with man made mind frames and interpretations such as "one true religion/church" it ends up dividing us.
@Robert O. - "Is one who is more concerned about the happiness of a person than their religious persuasion."
Let's say God does have rules for this life though. Rules which will help you to be happier. Will he just send in a letter to "Dear Abby" and hope people believe her? or would he choose to create a system of recognized authority where we can know that what is being said is from Him?
I personally believe that there is a large group of people out there who will be happy to believe in the REAL truth if they could just figure out what the heck it is! I expect they will sincerly ask God, when they get there, what the truth is so they can get things straight in their head.
Let's say God does have rules for this life though. Rules which will help you to be happier. Will he just send in a letter to "Dear Abby" and hope people believe her? or would he choose to create a system of recognized authority where we can know that what is being said is from Him?
I personally believe that there is a large group of people out there who will be happy to believe in the REAL truth if they could just figure out what the heck it is! I expect they will sincerly ask God, when they get there, what the truth is so they can get things straight in their head.
@Conejo - I believe that a loving god loves everyone, regardless of race/nationality/religion, and that as soon as you introduce "authority" you're enforcing Man's rules and perceptions and desires that are based on this world's limitations.
I believe we know the real truth already. There's no question about how to be kind and loving and unselfish and helpful to everyone around you. We don't need rules/laws to understand what Love feels like or even what it looks like.
The rule of treating others as we want to be treated is powerful - if we could only follow that one single rule in everything we do, wars would end, fighting would stop, poverty would disappear and love would be everywhere.
We don't need sets of rules - we need to be kind and loving and unselfish and helpful - good human beings, faithful loving partners, kind and compassionate parents and caring neighbors. And if religions help us do this while not causing us to be judgemental or hurtful to others, that's ok with me.
I believe we know the real truth already. There's no question about how to be kind and loving and unselfish and helpful to everyone around you. We don't need rules/laws to understand what Love feels like or even what it looks like.
The rule of treating others as we want to be treated is powerful - if we could only follow that one single rule in everything we do, wars would end, fighting would stop, poverty would disappear and love would be everywhere.
We don't need sets of rules - we need to be kind and loving and unselfish and helpful - good human beings, faithful loving partners, kind and compassionate parents and caring neighbors. And if religions help us do this while not causing us to be judgemental or hurtful to others, that's ok with me.
@Conejo - That is not what your church teaches, you don't make a very good mormon.
mormonism teaches that it is the ONLY way, and they they ONLY have the truth.
Stop lying in order to try and relate to serendipiti, he/she has more knowledge about love and acceptance than any commandment that you follow.
mormonism teaches that it is the ONLY way, and they they ONLY have the truth.
Stop lying in order to try and relate to serendipiti, he/she has more knowledge about love and acceptance than any commandment that you follow.
@Robert O. - I do not argue with your points. Those who use religion to foster hatred or attack one another are simply broken people in my book. But to assert that these acts are the byproduct of religion is a fallacy. Religion, including my relgion, which happens to be LDS teaches love, tolerance, obedience, service, service, service... and becoming the best we can become by living the commandments and emulating the characteristics exemplified by Jesus Christ.
I could go the mountains to be with God on Sunday, but I also could spend Sunday, serving others, helping them with their burdens and being with God by doing what He asked us to do.
People who attack my faith, and those who are goaded into responding, are missing the mark. Religion, all religion serves a great societal benefit and those who attack faith, do not realize the calamity our nation would face if religion is extracated from our society.
I could go the mountains to be with God on Sunday, but I also could spend Sunday, serving others, helping them with their burdens and being with God by doing what He asked us to do.
People who attack my faith, and those who are goaded into responding, are missing the mark. Religion, all religion serves a great societal benefit and those who attack faith, do not realize the calamity our nation would face if religion is extracated from our society.
@Addicus - I'm not attacking your faith, and I do agree that some religions, including LDS, provide societal benefits (I hesitate to say "all religions"). And "service" is certainly a powerful and valuable language to speak and act upon, and helping your neighbors and doing the things that Jesus Christ, Buddha, Mohammed and Abraham taught.
From my perspective, though, as soon as we try to package "THE TRUTH" into rules, regulations, books, doctrine and other ways to "score" behavior as right/wrong, we miss the message of love and transition into a world of judgement. If religions united mankind, not just believers, if religions promoted peace, not their doctrine/rules, I might believe that the way to Love is through religion.
But from my experience, religion teaches that you need to follow the specific rules/regulations or you won't get through the Pearly Gates, or to the right "levels" in the hereafter - telestial, terestial or celestial in the case of LDS, or purgatory, or hell, etc.
I can't believe that I could possibly love my children as much as loving creator loves me, and yet I would never throw my child into a burning lake of fire or condemn them to an eternity of darkness away from my love. And yet, this fear/loss is what religions teach. I am not better than God/Spirit, so I believe that I am loved more than I can possibly imagine, and when I get to heaven we'll all be there together, and sins will be forgiven, our confusion clarified, our eyes opened to what we learned, and we'll be loved and happy.
And religion excludes too many people - Spirit doesn't exclude anyone... My opinion, anyway.
From my perspective, though, as soon as we try to package "THE TRUTH" into rules, regulations, books, doctrine and other ways to "score" behavior as right/wrong, we miss the message of love and transition into a world of judgement. If religions united mankind, not just believers, if religions promoted peace, not their doctrine/rules, I might believe that the way to Love is through religion.
But from my experience, religion teaches that you need to follow the specific rules/regulations or you won't get through the Pearly Gates, or to the right "levels" in the hereafter - telestial, terestial or celestial in the case of LDS, or purgatory, or hell, etc.
I can't believe that I could possibly love my children as much as loving creator loves me, and yet I would never throw my child into a burning lake of fire or condemn them to an eternity of darkness away from my love. And yet, this fear/loss is what religions teach. I am not better than God/Spirit, so I believe that I am loved more than I can possibly imagine, and when I get to heaven we'll all be there together, and sins will be forgiven, our confusion clarified, our eyes opened to what we learned, and we'll be loved and happy.
And religion excludes too many people - Spirit doesn't exclude anyone... My opinion, anyway.
@Addicus - Religion is a societal benefit? Are you kidding me? Ever heard of the crusades, islamic extremism, the Danites, mountain meadows massacre, Thuggee Murders, Human sacrifices, the spanish inquisition, Jihads, 9/11. Organized religion is an excuse for Bigotry, hatred and insanity. Your religion has a history of violence, hatred, sexual perversion, blood atonement and other cult behaviors. If you think a few acts of kindness (i.e., helping the Jones family move and bringing the Jepson family a casterole after sister Jepson gives birth to her 12th child) is justification for the rest of the behavior Mormons exhibit today and have exhibited throughout their ugly history, then you are truly brainwashed, my friend.
@notamo - Attacking people that believe in religion (even though I'm not religious myself) doesn't get us anywhere. There are lots of wonderful Mormons (and Catholics and Baptists and Gnostics and Presbyterians and even those Lutherans - LOL).
Religions are sets of beliefs and rules and doctrine - they don't kill anyone or sexually abuse anybody. PEOPLE hurt people, and sometimes mean/bad people happen to be in certain religions.
But see, this is where we go wrong with religions and judgements and drawing the line around groups of people. The Crusades were really bad, but last time I checked, all those perpetrators are long dead and gone. The same with the Mountain Meadows Massacre-ists. Some of the Jihadists are still around, and there are some murderous Methodists/Baptists lurking in the Appalachian hills where I grew up, too, but it's not because of their religion - it's because they're bad, evil, sick, twisted, messed up people.
Let's not attack the Mormons or the Jews or the atheists or the spiritualist just because there's a "history" of badness we can link them to. There's probably a history of goodness somewhere too. It's all about what we choose to focus on, and how we treat each other - lovingly is better, don't you think?
Religions are sets of beliefs and rules and doctrine - they don't kill anyone or sexually abuse anybody. PEOPLE hurt people, and sometimes mean/bad people happen to be in certain religions.
But see, this is where we go wrong with religions and judgements and drawing the line around groups of people. The Crusades were really bad, but last time I checked, all those perpetrators are long dead and gone. The same with the Mountain Meadows Massacre-ists. Some of the Jihadists are still around, and there are some murderous Methodists/Baptists lurking in the Appalachian hills where I grew up, too, but it's not because of their religion - it's because they're bad, evil, sick, twisted, messed up people.
Let's not attack the Mormons or the Jews or the atheists or the spiritualist just because there's a "history" of badness we can link them to. There's probably a history of goodness somewhere too. It's all about what we choose to focus on, and how we treat each other - lovingly is better, don't you think?
@Robert O. - The beliefs, rules, and doctrine you speak of are not always good, Robert O. In fact, I would argue that religious ideology has historically been very bad and divisive. You can't separate religious ideology (good and bad) from the human propensity to be prideful, greedy, hateful, murderous and generally sinful. Religions are made up of men. Religious doctrines are manufactured by men. If men are inherently flawed and sinful, then anything man participates in will also be inherently flawed and sinful. Religion is a way of justifying our horrible actions in the name of God. I didn't draw the circle around these groups. The men that make up these religious groups did that to themselves. I am just pointing out that it is there and it is real.
@notamo - Why men who are greedy, selfish and flawed would devise doctrines and dogmas that teach and preach the abstention and curbing of one's naturaly wicked and selfish traits is an anomoly to me.
I am not perfect, nor will ever be so, but if my religion teaches me to become something better than I am without it, who are you preach to me? Its easy to pick on the failings of those who strive to live by a standard or principle while those who point and mock have it easy, for they are free from criticism because they do not profess to live any rules or principles other than those of their own making.
I am not perfect, nor will ever be so, but if my religion teaches me to become something better than I am without it, who are you preach to me? Its easy to pick on the failings of those who strive to live by a standard or principle while those who point and mock have it easy, for they are free from criticism because they do not profess to live any rules or principles other than those of their own making.
@Addicus - You missed the point entirely.
Your religion (legalized) Polygamy, Incest, Child Rape, and Murder.
How can these be things that make you better than without, as you say???
Your religion (legalized) Polygamy, Incest, Child Rape, and Murder.
How can these be things that make you better than without, as you say???
@notamo - I do not expect that an intellectually honest or fruitful dialogue can ever be had between us. You obviously have your perception of things, warped and twisted though they may be, and will continue to argue from your own biases and prejudices. The ugly history you mention could include Stalinist Russia, Hitlers Germany and great atrocities in asiatic countries. These acts are examples not of religions failings but man failings and at times, abuses and pervisions of religious beliefs.
If you think that all members of my faith do is bring casseroles and a few acts of random kindness to the undeserving, then all I can do is wish you the best and hope that you will enjoy all the bliss that stems from your complete ignorance.
If you think that all members of my faith do is bring casseroles and a few acts of random kindness to the undeserving, then all I can do is wish you the best and hope that you will enjoy all the bliss that stems from your complete ignorance.
and Joseph Smith sure knew how to spin them. Requiring the members to keep pace with rabbits in their procreative efforts certainly helps, too.
@Richard S. - the only question you must answer right before you can enter the LDS temple is: Do you have at least 5 children?
Ridiculous posts deserve ridiculous replies!
Ridiculous posts deserve ridiculous replies!
I guess there is no hope for mankind. Your all idiots.
I judge a man by his character. To me nothing is worse than a hypocrite.
True church? My church is better than yours?
Get a life, and lead by example.
I judge a man by his character. To me nothing is worse than a hypocrite.
True church? My church is better than yours?
Get a life, and lead by example.
We better get busy baptising the dinosaurs and other wonderful animals that live and/or have lived we wouldn't want the heavens to be filled with all these angry people and no pets. After all a soul is a soul.
The LDS church is not a club. You don't apply for membership, then end your membership by not paying your membership dues and by not attending. The Catholic church is the same way. It's funny how people always point to the LDS church first when weird ideas come up, people don't realize that all churches have weird little querks and traditions, many of which are in common with other churches.
@Yapper - Why would wierd ever be associated with Mormon er I mean LDS (or is that LSD) Was it a mission or a trip?
I'm a former mormon (so right there I know my comment just lost all credibility for a large number of you), went on a mission and saw how these growth numbers are reported. Someone takes the lessons, gets baptized, they are counted as a member. They may never set foot in a church again, but they're considered a member and count toward "growth." Its nothing new for many people, but in a lot of areas I was in (even where i live now), the record of members were pages and pages long but only a small number of those people were ever at church.
Growth numbers to me mean almost nothing. The LDS church sends out arguably the largest missionary force per year and arguably keeps more records on individual than any other church or religion. Not hard to see why they would look like the largest growing religion. It has nothing to do, as mormons would like to believe, that the increase is because "more people are coming to the truth" but that is why they are reported.
If it wasn't such a hassle to have your name removed from records (or even better, if the LDS church didn't think they had to keep tabs on any and everyone) so they could see how many people really didn't consider themselves members anymore, they may see an increase in membership, but nowhere near the "growth" they think
Growth numbers to me mean almost nothing. The LDS church sends out arguably the largest missionary force per year and arguably keeps more records on individual than any other church or religion. Not hard to see why they would look like the largest growing religion. It has nothing to do, as mormons would like to believe, that the increase is because "more people are coming to the truth" but that is why they are reported.
If it wasn't such a hassle to have your name removed from records (or even better, if the LDS church didn't think they had to keep tabs on any and everyone) so they could see how many people really didn't consider themselves members anymore, they may see an increase in membership, but nowhere near the "growth" they think
The Mormons claim members (like me) that don't go to church, care about it or beleive it. Of the 13.5 million I would bet only 1/3 give two cents about the Mormon cult (oops) I mean church. Having said that, Congratulations is in order for Mr. Manson (oops) Monson. Great job on leading the largest religous cult in the world. Nice work Tommy boy! Any prophecies coming soon? I haven't heard a prophecy from any of you "prophets" in a long time. Maybe its time to pony up some predictions about the future. Can you tell me when the dow is going to cross the 10,000 mark again?
@notamo - the Dow crossing 10,000 were important to our eternal salvation, he probably could.
I am sure my reply doesn't matter to someone as bigoted (oops) enlightened as you.
I am sure my reply doesn't matter to someone as bigoted (oops) enlightened as you.
@Roger B. - with this last crash of the market? He should have seen that coming. Dang.
@Roger B. - I caught another Mormon and all I had to do was put a worm on a hook. It is so easy to get you people fired up! I just want a prophecy from your prophet. Is that too much to ask? Joseph Smith made all kinds of prophecies that don't pertain to eternal salvation.
"I prophesy in the name of the Lord of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the saints in the state of Missouri and punish crimes committed by her officers, that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left"
Oh shoot, that never happened did it!
"I prophesy in the name of the Lord of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the saints in the state of Missouri and punish crimes committed by her officers, that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left"
Oh shoot, that never happened did it!
@Roger B. - Do your prophets prophesy, just wondering, since that is the job of a prophet.
@markciraulo - Yes. If there is something God wants his children to know, he will tell his chosen prophet, and then he will tell the rest of us. He isa watchman on a tower. A prophet warns us of dangers and teaches us the way to return to live with Heavenly Father(God) and Jesus Christ after this earthly life is through.
@Katie King - can you tell me (one) prophecy that any of the mormon prophets have given that have saved lives???
@markciraulo - Everything a prophet says is made to save all of us from spiritual death. He teaches that all of can be free from sin if we rely on our Savior.he gives us guidance so we can overcome the challenges of life.
During the flood of Slat Lake City sometime in the ninties, church leaders had warned the poepl that a calamity would soon occure. For those that followed the counsel, they were prepared for the flooding and were able to help their neighbors.
I am still really young, os I have not heard a lot of the prophecies given by prophets, but I KNOW they come from God.
During the flood of Slat Lake City sometime in the ninties, church leaders had warned the poepl that a calamity would soon occure. For those that followed the counsel, they were prepared for the flooding and were able to help their neighbors.
I am still really young, os I have not heard a lot of the prophecies given by prophets, but I KNOW they come from God.
@Katie King - Let me comment on what you have said
Paragraph 1: "Everything a prophet says is made to save all of us from spiritual death. He teaches that all of can be free from sin if we rely on our Savior.he gives us guidance so we can overcome the challenges of life".
You don't need a prophet to teach you that you can be free from sin if you turn your life over to Christ, anyone can tell you that, and the bible has already made that clear. The same goes for the second sentence in the first paragraph of your response.
Second; church leaders warning of a calamity that is coming is not a prophecy. a prophecy tells what is going to happen. I can say right now based upon current events that a calamity is going to happen and it will, that doesn't make me a prophet.
Are you saying that the church prophesied to it's people specifically that a flood was going to happen in salt lake city, and that this prophecy was from God? Because that is what I think you are saying.
If that is what you are implying, you are wrong. The church never prophesied to it's people that there was going to be a flood in slc in the nineties.
I must challenge you on your last two statements. I want to know what prophecies your prophets have prophecied in the name of God, and I want to know HOW you know that they are of God.
I adamantly and sincerely request that you answer the last question based upon scripture, rather than feelings.
Feelings cannot be trusted. Only the sure foundation of the word of God found in the bible can be trusted.
Paragraph 1: "Everything a prophet says is made to save all of us from spiritual death. He teaches that all of can be free from sin if we rely on our Savior.he gives us guidance so we can overcome the challenges of life".
You don't need a prophet to teach you that you can be free from sin if you turn your life over to Christ, anyone can tell you that, and the bible has already made that clear. The same goes for the second sentence in the first paragraph of your response.
Second; church leaders warning of a calamity that is coming is not a prophecy. a prophecy tells what is going to happen. I can say right now based upon current events that a calamity is going to happen and it will, that doesn't make me a prophet.
Are you saying that the church prophesied to it's people specifically that a flood was going to happen in salt lake city, and that this prophecy was from God? Because that is what I think you are saying.
If that is what you are implying, you are wrong. The church never prophesied to it's people that there was going to be a flood in slc in the nineties.
I must challenge you on your last two statements. I want to know what prophecies your prophets have prophecied in the name of God, and I want to know HOW you know that they are of God.
I adamantly and sincerely request that you answer the last question based upon scripture, rather than feelings.
Feelings cannot be trusted. Only the sure foundation of the word of God found in the bible can be trusted.
@notamo - But if I'm right I want you to give me 10% of what you make. Starting in July the rapid rise will begin.
There will be small ups and downs between now and then and that is when you will want to be picking up those promising energy stocks.
By the way notamo I used to be but finally got out and would never go back.
I'll be looking for that check in September.
There will be small ups and downs between now and then and that is when you will want to be picking up those promising energy stocks.
By the way notamo I used to be but finally got out and would never go back.
I'll be looking for that check in September.
@plant doctor - Great response, plant doctor. I'm going to invest that 10% I've been saving since I got out of my religious cult. Now I know when to put it in the Dow. The check will be in the mail.
@notamo - Here is a question, what makes this church a cult? I really don't understand you people. Do you not see all the good it does for other people? Yeah maybe you got offended somehow but you can get offended by anyone, regardless the faith. So mr. nazi (oops) notamo, if you really think that the bible is a cult, or that Jesus Christ is a cult....im sorry, you have a great life because you won't like the next.
@swimgurl_08 - What will happen to me in the next life? Will I not Hie to planet Kolob with all of the other Mormons? Will I not get multiple spirit wives and become a God of my own world. Are you sure? I know all the secret handshakes and the mystical chants required to enter into your Mormon heaven. Health in the navel, marrow in the bones...I learned them on the internet and by watching Big Love.
@notamo - That is so cool that you learned everything from watching tv and surfing the net. I'm sure you hold that knowledge special now. Probably not. Go ahead and mock it but you don't know a thing about it if that's where you learned it. Go ahead and pass judgement. If you want to actually show a bit of understanding and interest, you can learn these sacred things from GOD, not the internet or tv.
@notamo - If I wanted to learn more about you and what you represent, I would ask YOU not someone else. If you want correct information, Find a neibor who is one and simply ask. I guarantee you will learn a lot. Or better yet, go downtown. there are plenty who will be willing to share. You don't have to beleive anything they say, but it might at least clear up alot. But, remember, the only person who can say yay or nay to anything you hear is God. Not me, not your neibor or the internet or big love or temple square, only God. So if you really want to know what is true and what is not, Ask him.
@theryan82 - Here's a better way of determining what mormonism is all about.
Pick up your bible and compare what Jesus said to what mormonism says and does.
Sorry, Cult.
Nowhere in the bible does God EVER say pray to me and see if I give you a good feeling about a book or a people or a church.
This is how you fool the innocent into joining, then by the time you have their families wrapped up in everything that your organization offers and they realize that something just isn't right, they just stay rather than fight against the norm.
You know it's the truth, so let's be honest ok.
Pick up your bible and compare what Jesus said to what mormonism says and does.
Sorry, Cult.
Nowhere in the bible does God EVER say pray to me and see if I give you a good feeling about a book or a people or a church.
This is how you fool the innocent into joining, then by the time you have their families wrapped up in everything that your organization offers and they realize that something just isn't right, they just stay rather than fight against the norm.
You know it's the truth, so let's be honest ok.
@markciraulo - The Holy Bible: truly testifies of the Book of Mormon, and the restoration of the true church of Christ.
Look up Isiah 29:14.Jesus Christ himself even said taht he must go and administer "to other sheep, which are not of this fold." (John 10:16)
Isaiah also testifies that the rod and the staff shall be"one in thine hand". he is speaking of the Book of Mormon and the Bible.
2 Thessolanians 2:1--3 Talks about a falling away from the truth, and then a restoration.
I testify that that restoration came through the Prophet Joseph Smith. I know this because I have asked God, and felt his spirit confirming in my heart.
No one is brainwashed. Every member of the LDS church must ask God if what his prophets have taught are true.
Jesus Christ atoned for us so that we could be freed from Satan's power and return to live with him.
Look up Isiah 29:14.Jesus Christ himself even said taht he must go and administer "to other sheep, which are not of this fold." (John 10:16)
Isaiah also testifies that the rod and the staff shall be"one in thine hand". he is speaking of the Book of Mormon and the Bible.
2 Thessolanians 2:1--3 Talks about a falling away from the truth, and then a restoration.
I testify that that restoration came through the Prophet Joseph Smith. I know this because I have asked God, and felt his spirit confirming in my heart.
No one is brainwashed. Every member of the LDS church must ask God if what his prophets have taught are true.
Jesus Christ atoned for us so that we could be freed from Satan's power and return to live with him.
@Katie King - Isa 29:14 speaks of the house of Israel and (Gentiles).
I know that your sunday school teacher told you that it represents the bible and bom but if you really cared for the truth, truth would make itself known to you.
As far as the bom goes, even the title is spiritually illegal.
It says that it is another (testament) of Christ. Let me ask you a question, how many testaments can a man have?? Just (one). A testament is a will, and once a man dies he cannot create another will. The bible, and especially the new testament (in his blood) is the only testament that Jesus can legally leave to us.
The bible declares that a testament becomes in force (after) the testator dies.
Jesus Died to bring us the new testament (in his blood).
This is probably hard for you to understand but I pray that you would read the bible concerning this matter.
Here is the problem with your testimony. It is based upon a feeling rather than the bible. I know that (every) mormon relies on the feelings that they have when they ask if the prophets of mormonism are true and if the bom is true.
Don't you know that the devil can transform himself into an angel of Light??
That is why you (must) compare everything that you believe with the bible.
There are hundreds of scriptures in the bible that prove mormonism false but the sad thing is that you will never research it because you want to rely on feelings rather than facts/
Have you ever trusted someone and then they took advantage of you??? Well, this is a good example of how (feelings) about someone or something cannot be trusted.
YOu don't think that the devil can give you a good feeling about things??
That is why it is so important to trust in God's word, the bible, His truth.
Katie, if you are truly sincere, and you want to know the truth, God will reveal it to you. If you aren't sincere about knowing the truth, it will be withheld from you.
If you are content to be part of a religion, rather than being content with just having a relationship with God, there is nothing that anyone, including God can do for you.
I know that the scriptures that you listed have been taught by the mormon church to mean the things that you say, but here is the problem, you shouldn't be comparing the bom with the bible, you should be comparing the bible with the bom.
The bible was not created in order to backup the bom. The bible was given to all of mankind as the (foundation) of all truth.
There is no other book on this planet given by God that contains (everything) the we need concerning God's plan of salvation.
I feel so sorry for you because I know where you are at and how powerful of a force the mormon religion is to those under it's spell.
I have hope for you though, and hope for everyone else in mormonism, because I have seen many come to the knowledge of the truth.
both my stepbrother, and my sister-in-law, who were very serious dedicated and sincere mormons sought the whole truth and God revealed it to them, so I have hope for you too.
I truly hope that you could put the same sincerity that you have in mormonism to finding the truth that is plainly laid out in the bible.
God Bless.
I know that your sunday school teacher told you that it represents the bible and bom but if you really cared for the truth, truth would make itself known to you.
As far as the bom goes, even the title is spiritually illegal.
It says that it is another (testament) of Christ. Let me ask you a question, how many testaments can a man have?? Just (one). A testament is a will, and once a man dies he cannot create another will. The bible, and especially the new testament (in his blood) is the only testament that Jesus can legally leave to us.
The bible declares that a testament becomes in force (after) the testator dies.
Jesus Died to bring us the new testament (in his blood).
This is probably hard for you to understand but I pray that you would read the bible concerning this matter.
Here is the problem with your testimony. It is based upon a feeling rather than the bible. I know that (every) mormon relies on the feelings that they have when they ask if the prophets of mormonism are true and if the bom is true.
Don't you know that the devil can transform himself into an angel of Light??
That is why you (must) compare everything that you believe with the bible.
There are hundreds of scriptures in the bible that prove mormonism false but the sad thing is that you will never research it because you want to rely on feelings rather than facts/
Have you ever trusted someone and then they took advantage of you??? Well, this is a good example of how (feelings) about someone or something cannot be trusted.
YOu don't think that the devil can give you a good feeling about things??
That is why it is so important to trust in God's word, the bible, His truth.
Katie, if you are truly sincere, and you want to know the truth, God will reveal it to you. If you aren't sincere about knowing the truth, it will be withheld from you.
If you are content to be part of a religion, rather than being content with just having a relationship with God, there is nothing that anyone, including God can do for you.
I know that the scriptures that you listed have been taught by the mormon church to mean the things that you say, but here is the problem, you shouldn't be comparing the bom with the bible, you should be comparing the bible with the bom.
The bible was not created in order to backup the bom. The bible was given to all of mankind as the (foundation) of all truth.
There is no other book on this planet given by God that contains (everything) the we need concerning God's plan of salvation.
I feel so sorry for you because I know where you are at and how powerful of a force the mormon religion is to those under it's spell.
I have hope for you though, and hope for everyone else in mormonism, because I have seen many come to the knowledge of the truth.
both my stepbrother, and my sister-in-law, who were very serious dedicated and sincere mormons sought the whole truth and God revealed it to them, so I have hope for you too.
I truly hope that you could put the same sincerity that you have in mormonism to finding the truth that is plainly laid out in the bible.
God Bless.
@notamo - Notamo, sorry you didn't get all the troll votes you intended with your witless, sophomoric, offensive comment. Its unfortunate how a decent, well-educated, hard-working family man who has dedicated his life to serving his Church to the best of his ability and in accordance with his sincere beliefs gets slammed by some brainless bigot like you. There are so many of you out there. I don't think that either the Church or President Monson seek "congratulations" from goons like you, but the Church continues to be recognized by decent, well-informed people throughout the world (heads of state, religious leaders, educators, relief agencies, etc.) for its humanitarian efforts and other programs designed to alleviate suffering and improve people's lives, physically, medically and economically as well as spiritually, irrespective of their race, religion, political views or nationality or national origin. The Dow will reach the 10,000 mark about mid-June before retracting a bit. Buy now. Then buy a postage stamp and send a letter to the Church asking that your name be removed from the records of the Church. Then it will be 13.5 million minus 1.
Convenient to have Jesus come to us to America. Did he visit Asia as well ? How about Australia ? If not, why just Jerusalem and America?
@vipersting - Actually, you need to study more. First, he didn't come to us here in the United States, except for the First Visitation - (Or first 'vision') There is a difference between a vision and an actual visitation. According to the Book of Mormon Christ appeared way south of here somewhere in central or S. America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8b5pd3TGAg
Second, Israel is where he was born in mortality. America is the chosen land (as long as it recognizes God) and where HE has raised many prophets. But this land, as it abandons God and resorts to paganism and atheism, will likely fall. Especially if we keep destroying it with lawlessness and sin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8b5pd3TGAg
Second, Israel is where he was born in mortality. America is the chosen land (as long as it recognizes God) and where HE has raised many prophets. But this land, as it abandons God and resorts to paganism and atheism, will likely fall. Especially if we keep destroying it with lawlessness and sin.
@Rem - that's funny, Christ said that the next time that He would come would be to GET HIS church, not continue preaching the gospel.
In fact, He told his disciples to go into (all the world) preaching the gospel.
I guess he forgot to tell them that he would visit america Himself right>>>???
Don't think so, doesn't jive with the book Rem.
Good try though.
In fact, He told his disciples to go into (all the world) preaching the gospel.
I guess he forgot to tell them that he would visit america Himself right>>>???
Don't think so, doesn't jive with the book Rem.
Good try though.
@vipersting - if you knew what is written in the book of mormon you would know the answer to your question.
Yah the church is growing, so is the whole world and every other church. I think that it's pathetic that anyone would tear another man's faith and hope apart. That might be all he has left. If you found something that you believe and agree with, stick with it and live it. What good are you doing by mocking someone elses belief?
@Aaron P. - that is the question that I have been asking about mormonism since it's inception.
Why do all of it's prophets mock every other religion and call every one else false and all of our beliefs an abomination to God.
I agree with you Aaron P.
Why do all of it's prophets mock every other religion and call every one else false and all of our beliefs an abomination to God.
I agree with you Aaron P.
Still got just a little ways to go...
# Christianity: 2.1 billion - 13 million (LDS)
# Islam: 1.5 billion
# Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
# Hinduism: 900 million
# Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
# Buddhism: 376 million
# primal-indigenous: 300 million
# African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
# Sikhism: 23 million
# Juche: 19 million
# Spiritism: 15 million
# Judaism: 14 million
But, it's ahead of these:
# Baha'i: 7 million
# Jainism: 4.2 million
# Shinto: 4 million
# Cao Dai: 4 million
# Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
# Tenrikyo: 2 million
# Neo-Paganism: 1 million
# Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
# Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
# Scientology: 500 thousand
# Christianity: 2.1 billion - 13 million (LDS)
# Islam: 1.5 billion
# Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
# Hinduism: 900 million
# Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
# Buddhism: 376 million
# primal-indigenous: 300 million
# African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
# Sikhism: 23 million
# Juche: 19 million
# Spiritism: 15 million
# Judaism: 14 million
But, it's ahead of these:
# Baha'i: 7 million
# Jainism: 4.2 million
# Shinto: 4 million
# Cao Dai: 4 million
# Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
# Tenrikyo: 2 million
# Neo-Paganism: 1 million
# Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
# Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
# Scientology: 500 thousand
@Rem - I mean it wasn't invented until Kim Il-Sung said "let it be so" in 1955. And 5-6 million of the Jews were wiped out in the 1940s, not to mention all the pogroms and inquisitions before that, and they're still ahead. But I guess you have to take what you can get after 180 years.
That they just would not publish anything about our Faith. But if they do, close down the comment boards. I don't usually read these boards. Today when I saw all the comments, I popped in to see what is being said.
I am LDS. I will not ever contend with anyone about my faith. We as LDS people are taught NOT to contend. Sometimes I wonder if there are those who are so angry with the church that they play both sides of the fence on here just to create controversy.
We live where the church is a very prevalent part of our culture. I am sorry that there are those who have been offended. If I could speak for all LDS...I am so very sorry. If you all are so irritated with the LDS, why not consider moving where the church is not so visable.
There is so much hate, I think that if we all were to meet face to face, the conversation would be much nicer. Couldn't we remember this while we are here on message boards? Please
I am LDS. I will not ever contend with anyone about my faith. We as LDS people are taught NOT to contend. Sometimes I wonder if there are those who are so angry with the church that they play both sides of the fence on here just to create controversy.
We live where the church is a very prevalent part of our culture. I am sorry that there are those who have been offended. If I could speak for all LDS...I am so very sorry. If you all are so irritated with the LDS, why not consider moving where the church is not so visable.
There is so much hate, I think that if we all were to meet face to face, the conversation would be much nicer. Couldn't we remember this while we are here on message boards? Please
@omi won kenobi - That is an outstanding idea! since I don't agree with the church and from time to time get annoyed with their influence in this state I should uproot and head somewhere that I can be surrounded by a bunch of people that think the same way as I do, that would be a great way to continue to open my mind. Look kenobi I know you are trying to be Mr. peace maker, but us non-exmormons have every bit as much right to this state as you. That is why instead of tucking tale and running to a place where the Mormons don't exist I choose to stay here and waste my time commenting on stupid comments on this stupid comment board. By the way I am sure you are super nice, but that was a pretty silly thing to say.
@omi won kenobi - Before saying anything else, I commend KSL most highly and sincerely for not coweringly doing what would have them do and "close down the comment boards" if they post an LDS-related article. I was initially dubious when they first opened them but I have never had issue at all with censorship or biased moderating.
Now as to the rest, if you didn't know by now what to expect every time there's a church article then you either need to visit more or perhaps this was a needed eye-opener. There's childish remarks on every board on any topic, just ignore them or vote 'em "Troll" like everyone else. For the less childish ones, or sarcastic ones like mine I know occasionally are, vote them however you like or ignore them too but I think it's rather arrogant that you would want us either to move out or just shut up if we don't agree with the touchy-feely groupthink sentiment.
"We as LDS people are taught NOT to contend." - well then there's a lot of LDS folks posting here that don't follow that teaching, which I think is a great thing. They have valid points as well and it would be a loss to have them taught to be silent in the face of contention if they truly believe differently.
Now as to the rest, if you didn't know by now what to expect every time there's a church article then you either need to visit more or perhaps this was a needed eye-opener. There's childish remarks on every board on any topic, just ignore them or vote 'em "Troll" like everyone else. For the less childish ones, or sarcastic ones like mine I know occasionally are, vote them however you like or ignore them too but I think it's rather arrogant that you would want us either to move out or just shut up if we don't agree with the touchy-feely groupthink sentiment.
"We as LDS people are taught NOT to contend." - well then there's a lot of LDS folks posting here that don't follow that teaching, which I think is a great thing. They have valid points as well and it would be a loss to have them taught to be silent in the face of contention if they truly believe differently.
Then if you comment on it in a certain light, you get threatened if reported. What's the point?
I'll just say that if you want to give the keys to your car to someone else, rather than drive it yourself on the best roads in the world, that is your business.
Just stay out of everyone else's business. Something you can't do. You totally reap what you sow, and I hope people never stop reacting to it until you've learned your lesson and stay on your side of the fence.
I'll just say that if you want to give the keys to your car to someone else, rather than drive it yourself on the best roads in the world, that is your business.
Just stay out of everyone else's business. Something you can't do. You totally reap what you sow, and I hope people never stop reacting to it until you've learned your lesson and stay on your side of the fence.
if you want accurate statistics seek an outside party like the "AMERICAN RELIGIOUS IDENTIFICATION SURVEY". the fastest growing group by far are those who claim no religious beliefs amd istead rely on science, logic, and reson. mormons are barely keeping up with population growth.
Even with 13.5 million members and the world population of 6.759 billion, the Mormon church makes up only 0.2% of the population. Yes, that is two-tenths of one percent.
Even at a rate of 1.6% increase every year, by 2050 when the worlds population is 8.909 billion, the Mormon church will have 25.8 million members which will be slightly less that three-tenths of one percent.
However, while the 1.6% increase seems exciting, it has actually been coming down. In other words, while the church is gaining members, they aren't doing it nearly as fast. For example, in 2001 based on a ten year average, the church membership would have been roughly 72 million in 2050.
There is good news though. At current rates, the church membership will make up 1.3% of the worlds 9.746 billion population in 2150.
Even at a rate of 1.6% increase every year, by 2050 when the worlds population is 8.909 billion, the Mormon church will have 25.8 million members which will be slightly less that three-tenths of one percent.
However, while the 1.6% increase seems exciting, it has actually been coming down. In other words, while the church is gaining members, they aren't doing it nearly as fast. For example, in 2001 based on a ten year average, the church membership would have been roughly 72 million in 2050.
There is good news though. At current rates, the church membership will make up 1.3% of the worlds 9.746 billion population in 2150.
The fastest growing religious group is Muslims. yes they are having more baby's than the Mormons. Hard to believe.
I am so confused, this message board should have somehow been tied back to Obama being Satan's messenger. Isn't that usually the way the KSL comment board goes? Ok I will start. I heard that Barack Obama wants to round up all mormons and put them in concentration camps where they will be forced to eat green jello and play basketball. Oh your thinking, that doesn't sound so bad. Well your wrong! The constant imbibing of jello will make them week and malnourished. That's when he starts the winner take all church ball tournament where the players' frustrations lead to extreme violence (as they usually do). when it is all said and done there will be only 5 surviving mormons, and they will all be really really tired. CURSE YOU OBAMA!
Besides contradicting the teachings of the Bible, such as the doctrine of justification by grace through faith, the Book of Mormon also declares that anyone who thinks the Bible of itself is adequate as a spiritual guide is a fool (2 Nephi 29:6, 10). That derogatory statement is a direct attack on the Bible. And it automatically places the Book of Mormon firmly into the category of spiritual deception, because God has already told us not only that His Word is adequate, but that we should use it as our standard of truth against which to test all other spiritual teachings. So there is no need for us to have to pray to Him in order to find out whether or not the Book of Mormon is true. We already have the answer. The fact that it denigrates the Bible and contradicts its teachings, tells us that it is a tool of deception.
In light of the above, asking God to give us confirmation of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon is equivalent to telling Him that we would rather trust in Joseph Smith and his Book of Mormon, than trust in what He Himself has already told us in the Bible that He gave us to use as our standard of truth.
In light of the above, asking God to give us confirmation of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon is equivalent to telling Him that we would rather trust in Joseph Smith and his Book of Mormon, than trust in what He Himself has already told us in the Bible that He gave us to use as our standard of truth.
@Wasatchman - 1. You obviously know little about the Bible (assuming you are referring to the KJV).
2. You obviously know even less about the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
3. Your circular reasoning is ludricous, false and shallow.
4. Where in the Bible did our Heavenly Father tell us that the Bible is the only scripture we should need or have? Where did He declare that the KJV is our "standard of truth." (By the way, I love the Bible and read from it's pages often. I've also had the opportunity to teach adult Bible classes using the Spanish and French versions of the Bible, which vary sometimes slightly and sometimes significantly from the KJV, but the beautiful truths and doctrines therein are harmonious.)
5. I'm LDS, and I love the doctrine of grace through faith.
2. You obviously know even less about the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
3. Your circular reasoning is ludricous, false and shallow.
4. Where in the Bible did our Heavenly Father tell us that the Bible is the only scripture we should need or have? Where did He declare that the KJV is our "standard of truth." (By the way, I love the Bible and read from it's pages often. I've also had the opportunity to teach adult Bible classes using the Spanish and French versions of the Bible, which vary sometimes slightly and sometimes significantly from the KJV, but the beautiful truths and doctrines therein are harmonious.)
5. I'm LDS, and I love the doctrine of grace through faith.
whos God is right whos is wrong blah blah blah. Everyone who thinks their God is the one true God or their religion is the one true religion are a pox upon the Earth. you breed fear and hate and nothing good. Get over it and get along with each other. Swallow your pride for the better of humanity.
WE THE BEST!!! Cause we takin over, we can supply you! With enough work to feed the whole town! Hey HARDTAIL.......There is but one TRUE religion. And that is because Jesus taught it. What exists outside of the LDS church today, is a bunch of misconceptions about what Christ actually taught. With the Bible and the Book Of Mormon, you will be able to confound false doctrine (such as infant baptism) and then throw in a little heartfelt, humble prayer, and you could recieve an answer of the truthfulness. The many mansions are there for us because we have the potential to become like our Father in Heaven. We will never be better than him, but he wants us to succeed and become equal in our own rights. Any father wants his children to possess everything good that he has experienced, and Heavenly Father is the same way. Some of those mansions could have been created by Noah, Moses, Abraham, Lehi, Enoch, Mahonri Moriancumr, and many, many more.
I add my sincere testimony to the previous writer. christ truly came to earth, but his mission began long before the foundations of the earth were laid. he helped create the very earth on which we live. He created all of humanity from his image. He gave every man the ability to choose for themselves what they did with their life. As in the words of the Book of Mormon, this earth life is a time to prepare to meet God. Christ came and taught true doctrine; these would truly make us happy. When all the apostle were killed, the church was lost and had to be restored. It was restored through Joseph Smith. Revelation is not dead. President Thomas S. Monson leads and guides us here on the earth and is the mouthpiece of Christ. If he were EVER to do something contrary to the will of God, he would cease to be a prophet. I know these things because I have felt the Holy Ghost testifying it to me.
We need to live in peace and have respect for others beliefs.
We need to live in peace and have respect for others beliefs.
@Katie King - Lies, all lies.
One day maybe mormonism will respect other people's beliefs, but I greatly doubt it.
One day maybe mormonism will respect other people's beliefs, but I greatly doubt it.
if a person being tuaght by the missionaries decides they don't want to listen, those missionaries should respect their agency and back off. We don't want to force our religion on other people, we just know that the true Church as taught in the Bible is back on the earth and the Kingdom of God is rolling forth and no unhallowed hand can stop the Church of Christ from progressing forward. (Joseph Smith)
Here is what Joseph Smith told a newspaper editor what we believe.
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Joseph Smith
Here is what Joseph Smith told a newspaper editor what we believe.
1 We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Joseph Smith
Is this the same newspaper that Joseph Smith destroyed because he didn't want the newspaper revealing his character?
Vandalism and the destruction of private property is sin and lawlessness, both in the bible and in man's law, so how do you justify this?
I believe that you are sincere in what you post Katie, the problem is that although the names are the same as the names in the bible, the character, history, doctrine, and spirit is different than that chrisitanity found in the bible.
1. (The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost)
Christians do not believe that Satan is the brother of Jesus, because the bible says that satan was a created angel, not a god.
Your father is a god who was once a man who attained godhood by being good.
Our Father is the one true God who has (always existed) (has no beginning or end) (has never been a man) (does not have spirit wives) (does not have spirit babies) (there were no Gods before Him, and neither shall there be after Him) (He is a Spirit) (Not a glorified man)
Christians do not believe that our goodness can justify or make us a god in eternity.
We rely solely on the blood of Jesus Christ, His Sacrifice, and faith in Him to obtain salvation. The bible declares that there is nothing that we can do to make ourselves righteous in God's eyes.
The bible goes one step further in explaining what OUR righteousness looks to God, which is (our good works). God says that OUR righteousness is as filthy rags to God. This shows that EVERYTHING that you are trying to do to be righteous before God is rejected by Him.
I am surprised that the Holy Ghost is mentioned because I have never heard a mormon teach or preach that you must be (Born-Again). This is WHEN you RECEIVE the Holy Ghost and when your relationship with God Begins.
2. (Sin)
Here is another example that is unbiblical. The bible says that because of adam's transgression death passed to all men. If we weren't cursed because of Adam's sin we would not die.
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience (Adam) many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Sin came upon all men because of Adam, so how can you say that adam's sin has not passed to all men?
3. (Atonement of Christ)
Do you know what the word atonement means? If you did, you wouldn't believe that your works can save you or grant you entrance into heaven.
Christians are obediant because it is our (reasonable service) and it is (expected of us by God). But our atonement has come through Christ alone, outside of our works. The bible declares that we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works lest any man should boast. Do you know what this means?
4. These principles would be stated plainly if you to just say that you must be (Born-Again).
5. I guess Paul, the greatest missionary of all time would be rejected by the mormon church as an apostle and as a preacher of the gospel, and an administer of the word of God because he did not receive his ministry by the laying on of hands of the first apostles and He didn't receive his ministry by prophecy. So how do you adhere to this belief when the greatest missionary that ever lived does not fall under it's scrutiny?
6. (the Five-Fold Ministry)
We not only believe in the five-fold ministry of the body of Christ, we actually see the five-fold ministry in action. Unlike mormonism the calling of the prophet is no greater than any other of the callings God has on his ministers. Also, prophets in the body of Christ actually prophesy.
7. (We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth)
Let's start with the gift of tongues. How can you believe in the gift of tongues when your church doesn't manifest the gift. Do you speak in tongues Katie? It is an evidence the you have RECEIVED the Holy Spirit. Without it, you are severely limited in your conversations with God in prayer. You can read about speaking in tongues and it's purpose in the bible. Speaking in tongues occurs when our spirit desires to communicate with God but does not have the words to communicate effectively. This is when the Holy Spirit prays to God for us and through us in a language that the enemy cannot understand.
Do you know that you can feel the Spirit of God and not have the Spirit living in you. When the Spirit is living in you, you are Born of His Spirit, you are Born-Again. One of the evidences, and the most prominent evidence of being born of God’s Spirit is speaking in tongues. This is what happened to over 120 disciples on the day of Pentecost in the book of acts. This was evidence that the had become born-again.
Next, (Prophecy). We have already covered how mormon prophets don't prophecy today, so it makes no sense to call them prophets. Although your church teaches that the calling of a prophet is to lead a church, the bible defines a prophet simply as one who prophesies. If the calling of a prophet was to lead, God would have made David and solomon prophets because they were the greatest leaders and shepherds of God's people in the old testament.
In direct contrast to what mormonism teaches, David, although the leader of God's people and a man after God's own heart, was not a prophet. The prophets in David's time were Samuel and Nathan, and by no means did they have the Authority to be the leaders of God's people, this was given to David, and the rest of the kings that followed him.
Next (Revelation). We not only believe in revelation we feel that it is absolutely necessary to receive revelation from God on a daily basis, direct from Him, in order to continue to grow in understanding and maturity in Christ. This is why Jesus prayed, give us this day our daily bread. He was speaking of the spiritual bread, revelation, that we need on a daily basis. the word revelation means to reveal.
In contrast to mormonism, a christian will not accept any revelation that is contrary to the bible, our standard of living and our standard of truth. Mormonism discredits the bible to pave the way for new revelation that is in direct contradiction to bible doctrine.
(Interpretation of Tongues) This is when the Holy Spirit speaks in a tongue of a man or an angel through a person and it is interpreted by another person through the power of the Holy Spirit. It is evidence in a church that God is present. The bible says "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not" so Tongues and their interpretation are a sign to unbelievers that God is in their midst. Do you have these manifestations in your church?
Next (The bible as far as it is translated correctly)
If your church is the true church of God and it is the only church with the truth, and revelation, why is it such a hard thing to properly translate the bible where it has been mistranslated from it's original languages.
I will tell you why. There is no mistranslation in the bible. God has set every book and every word in the order that He has chosen. The reason that the only true church will never attempt by revelation to properly translate the bible is because then the only true church would lose it's ability to discredit the bible when it disagrees with mormon doctrine and mormon revelation.
Number 9. This is basic christianity, both in the church as a whole and with every believer. We as christians will never accept a revelation that is not in order and agreement with the bible, that is what protects us from false revelations and doctrines of devils.
Number 10.
(The Literal Gathering of Israel)
This could be many things I guess. Depends on whether you are speaking of natural or spiritual Israel. The bible prophecies of the gathering of Israel back to their homeland.
(The restoration of the ten tribes) it is not clear as to what this means to a mormon.
(Zion, the New Jerusalem will be built upon the american continent)
There are a myriad of problems with this statement. First of all, New Jerusalem is built by God in heaven and descends down in the place of God's chosen city today, Jerusalem.
The earth however will be renewed (after) it is destroyed. Everything on the planet will melt with fervent heat. This is why it is hard to understand why mormonism is putting out so much effort in building temples and trying to create a kingdom on earth. Everything will melt with fervent heat, nothing will be left of the old world, that includes everything that has been built on the earth.
Christ will reign forever however, in that we do agree.
Number 11 This is a far cry from the arrogant statements of the previous mormon leaders and it's founder.
Number 12 When did mormonism start believing in this biblical principal?? It had to have been after the false prophecies of the american government falling and mormonism taking over the presidency and government in america. It had to be after years of fighting with the government over the practice of polygamy, and refusal to be subject to the american government in the times of Brigham Young.
Number 13 (We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men) All of these things are good, but none of these things can justify yourself in the eyes of God, only the blood of Jesus Christ.
(indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul) Funny how Paul is quoted when, under the standards that are listed in #5 he wouldn’t even be accepted as a minister in the mormon church today.
Vandalism and the destruction of private property is sin and lawlessness, both in the bible and in man's law, so how do you justify this?
I believe that you are sincere in what you post Katie, the problem is that although the names are the same as the names in the bible, the character, history, doctrine, and spirit is different than that chrisitanity found in the bible.
1. (The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost)
Christians do not believe that Satan is the brother of Jesus, because the bible says that satan was a created angel, not a god.
Your father is a god who was once a man who attained godhood by being good.
Our Father is the one true God who has (always existed) (has no beginning or end) (has never been a man) (does not have spirit wives) (does not have spirit babies) (there were no Gods before Him, and neither shall there be after Him) (He is a Spirit) (Not a glorified man)
Christians do not believe that our goodness can justify or make us a god in eternity.
We rely solely on the blood of Jesus Christ, His Sacrifice, and faith in Him to obtain salvation. The bible declares that there is nothing that we can do to make ourselves righteous in God's eyes.
The bible goes one step further in explaining what OUR righteousness looks to God, which is (our good works). God says that OUR righteousness is as filthy rags to God. This shows that EVERYTHING that you are trying to do to be righteous before God is rejected by Him.
I am surprised that the Holy Ghost is mentioned because I have never heard a mormon teach or preach that you must be (Born-Again). This is WHEN you RECEIVE the Holy Ghost and when your relationship with God Begins.
2. (Sin)
Here is another example that is unbiblical. The bible says that because of adam's transgression death passed to all men. If we weren't cursed because of Adam's sin we would not die.
Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience (Adam) many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Sin came upon all men because of Adam, so how can you say that adam's sin has not passed to all men?
3. (Atonement of Christ)
Do you know what the word atonement means? If you did, you wouldn't believe that your works can save you or grant you entrance into heaven.
Christians are obediant because it is our (reasonable service) and it is (expected of us by God). But our atonement has come through Christ alone, outside of our works. The bible declares that we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works lest any man should boast. Do you know what this means?
4. These principles would be stated plainly if you to just say that you must be (Born-Again).
5. I guess Paul, the greatest missionary of all time would be rejected by the mormon church as an apostle and as a preacher of the gospel, and an administer of the word of God because he did not receive his ministry by the laying on of hands of the first apostles and He didn't receive his ministry by prophecy. So how do you adhere to this belief when the greatest missionary that ever lived does not fall under it's scrutiny?
6. (the Five-Fold Ministry)
We not only believe in the five-fold ministry of the body of Christ, we actually see the five-fold ministry in action. Unlike mormonism the calling of the prophet is no greater than any other of the callings God has on his ministers. Also, prophets in the body of Christ actually prophesy.
7. (We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth)
Let's start with the gift of tongues. How can you believe in the gift of tongues when your church doesn't manifest the gift. Do you speak in tongues Katie? It is an evidence the you have RECEIVED the Holy Spirit. Without it, you are severely limited in your conversations with God in prayer. You can read about speaking in tongues and it's purpose in the bible. Speaking in tongues occurs when our spirit desires to communicate with God but does not have the words to communicate effectively. This is when the Holy Spirit prays to God for us and through us in a language that the enemy cannot understand.
Do you know that you can feel the Spirit of God and not have the Spirit living in you. When the Spirit is living in you, you are Born of His Spirit, you are Born-Again. One of the evidences, and the most prominent evidence of being born of God’s Spirit is speaking in tongues. This is what happened to over 120 disciples on the day of Pentecost in the book of acts. This was evidence that the had become born-again.
Next, (Prophecy). We have already covered how mormon prophets don't prophecy today, so it makes no sense to call them prophets. Although your church teaches that the calling of a prophet is to lead a church, the bible defines a prophet simply as one who prophesies. If the calling of a prophet was to lead, God would have made David and solomon prophets because they were the greatest leaders and shepherds of God's people in the old testament.
In direct contrast to what mormonism teaches, David, although the leader of God's people and a man after God's own heart, was not a prophet. The prophets in David's time were Samuel and Nathan, and by no means did they have the Authority to be the leaders of God's people, this was given to David, and the rest of the kings that followed him.
Next (Revelation). We not only believe in revelation we feel that it is absolutely necessary to receive revelation from God on a daily basis, direct from Him, in order to continue to grow in understanding and maturity in Christ. This is why Jesus prayed, give us this day our daily bread. He was speaking of the spiritual bread, revelation, that we need on a daily basis. the word revelation means to reveal.
In contrast to mormonism, a christian will not accept any revelation that is contrary to the bible, our standard of living and our standard of truth. Mormonism discredits the bible to pave the way for new revelation that is in direct contradiction to bible doctrine.
(Interpretation of Tongues) This is when the Holy Spirit speaks in a tongue of a man or an angel through a person and it is interpreted by another person through the power of the Holy Spirit. It is evidence in a church that God is present. The bible says "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not" so Tongues and their interpretation are a sign to unbelievers that God is in their midst. Do you have these manifestations in your church?
Next (The bible as far as it is translated correctly)
If your church is the true church of God and it is the only church with the truth, and revelation, why is it such a hard thing to properly translate the bible where it has been mistranslated from it's original languages.
I will tell you why. There is no mistranslation in the bible. God has set every book and every word in the order that He has chosen. The reason that the only true church will never attempt by revelation to properly translate the bible is because then the only true church would lose it's ability to discredit the bible when it disagrees with mormon doctrine and mormon revelation.
Number 9. This is basic christianity, both in the church as a whole and with every believer. We as christians will never accept a revelation that is not in order and agreement with the bible, that is what protects us from false revelations and doctrines of devils.
Number 10.
(The Literal Gathering of Israel)
This could be many things I guess. Depends on whether you are speaking of natural or spiritual Israel. The bible prophecies of the gathering of Israel back to their homeland.
(The restoration of the ten tribes) it is not clear as to what this means to a mormon.
(Zion, the New Jerusalem will be built upon the american continent)
There are a myriad of problems with this statement. First of all, New Jerusalem is built by God in heaven and descends down in the place of God's chosen city today, Jerusalem.
The earth however will be renewed (after) it is destroyed. Everything on the planet will melt with fervent heat. This is why it is hard to understand why mormonism is putting out so much effort in building temples and trying to create a kingdom on earth. Everything will melt with fervent heat, nothing will be left of the old world, that includes everything that has been built on the earth.
Christ will reign forever however, in that we do agree.
Number 11 This is a far cry from the arrogant statements of the previous mormon leaders and it's founder.
Number 12 When did mormonism start believing in this biblical principal?? It had to have been after the false prophecies of the american government falling and mormonism taking over the presidency and government in america. It had to be after years of fighting with the government over the practice of polygamy, and refusal to be subject to the american government in the times of Brigham Young.
Number 13 (We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men) All of these things are good, but none of these things can justify yourself in the eyes of God, only the blood of Jesus Christ.
(indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul) Funny how Paul is quoted when, under the standards that are listed in #5 he wouldn’t even be accepted as a minister in the mormon church today.
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11:42am - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
11:48am - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Sorry, but a trollish comment like yours deserves a trollish response.
11:51am - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:32pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
In God's living room, there is only one religion taught, for we know that His house is a house of order, and NOT a house of confusion.
It's so, so easy.
'Tail.
12:04pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:39pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:41pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
The Last Angry Man
12:44pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
How many differing views on the Gospel of Jesus Christ are taught by Jesus Christ in His mansion?
Well...
'Tail.
12:58pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:59pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Try again.
1:10pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:12pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
The question remains.
1:16pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:40pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
ST. John 14:2 in the Bible
1:44pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
11:59pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
8:48pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:19pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:21pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
I'm wondering if you can as well.
1:24pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:26pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Any quantified reason?
1:27pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:04pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:55pm - Tue Apr 21st, 2009
1:28pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:11pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
The God you believe in doesn't exist. Keep your preaching to yourself.
2:42pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Can you prove it?
This is so, so easy.
2:56pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:04pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:38pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:59pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
I can prove that what you believe isn't true. Here, I'll show you. Prove to me that your God exists. What?? You can't?? Weird.
2:59pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:04pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
7:49am - Sat Apr 11th, 2009
5:10pm - Tue Apr 21st, 2009
4:43pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
You're in this funk which is really sad.
But, on the other hand, I can't stop laughing.
10:31am - Sat Apr 11th, 2009
1:19pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:24pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1. God has said how many religions are taught in his living room.
2. He says He has a mansion. Have you read His book?
2:03pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Cause every religion says their's is the one true church and their interpretation is the one correct one.
2:23pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:56pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:07pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
This is so, so easy.
3:09pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:11pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:13pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
8:52pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:12pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:13pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:27pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:31pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
4:26pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
8:55pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:31pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:46pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
I have no problem with this even though you do.
I can prove Jesus is the Christ and God is your Father.
It's amazing that you could spend your whole life in a mental absence over this.
This is so, so easy.
'Tail.
2:58pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
On Dec 22-24 the sun rises in the same place for these three days, thus the death of the sun (Christ), and after that it begins to move again, thus the resurrection.
12 Apostles = 12 zodiac signs.
Jesus being the fisherman and other references to fish in accordance to Jesus just shows the time of his supposed birth was the beginning of the age of Pisces, represented by the fish.
The list goes on an on. You need to actually do some research into reality, and find out what you are actually worshiping.
3:10pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:14pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
8:37pm - Mon Apr 20th, 2009
that is the lamest atheistic attempt to descredit christianity that I have ever read.
3:00pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:40pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
4:57pm - Sun Apr 12th, 2009
9:02pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:20pm - Sun Apr 12th, 2009
2:52pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:01pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
You really do sound confused.
"In my Father's house are many mansions".
Do you, Along, have any clue whatsoever as to what
Jesus meant my "house"?
Please don't tell me you're stuck on this.
'Tail.
3:20pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
4:38pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
The fact that it shines is all you can handle.
Sorry, Along, but your lack of a usable knowledge base is hilarious.
'Tail.
5:29pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:06pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:09pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Is there not one of you boyz and girlz who can qualify
with a bonified response?
Wow!!
'Tail.
3:11pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:43pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
4:41pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
answer to an incredibly simple question which any
two-year old should be able to respond to.
Amazing! Graceful!
'Tail.
5:23pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:31pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:33pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
The question could not be any easier.
Seriously.
'Tail.
5:43pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
6:28pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
6:05pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
That's a 100% increase!
...and I didn't even have to ring any doorbells...
3:02pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
4:53pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
You're just posting to see your name on the net.
Your question reeks of adolescent tongue-in-cheek.
5:25pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:35pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
8:57pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
9:07pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
10:41am - Sat Apr 11th, 2009
8:33pm - Mon Apr 20th, 2009
First of all, Jesus does not teach from a mansion. He is sitting on the right hand of God Himself.
Second, there is only one gospel of Jesus Christ, so you can take your additional gospel (testament) and flush it down the toilet where it belongs.
As far as being the one true religion, there is no such thing.
There is a body of Christ, but there is no one true religion.
Religion is created by man, relationship was payed for by Jesus Christ.
Are you really so blind as to think that Jesus died so that you could baptize for the dead, who have already been judged?
Once you did, that is it, game over, your life, and whether you knew the savior will be the only things you will be judged by.
And to respond to the last statement you made.
"His house is a house of order, and NOT a house of confusion".
This should be evidence enough for you to comprehend that you are in a false religion.
How dare you come on here and say that the body of Christ is false, and your religion is true.
The Arrogance and pride that I so often see from the mormon movement are the same spirits that caused lucifer to lose his place in heaven.
3:00pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
I was a believer until I moved to UTAH and saw the real ignorance!
5:15pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:26pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:36pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
7:47pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:50pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:33pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Any bets you belong to one too?
2:17pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:07pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
8:44pm - Mon Apr 20th, 2009
2:57pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
What I want to hear in the news that KSL wont post is teh story about the LDS Bishop in Colorado that screwed all those people out of their money! One true religion eh? If thats what you want to believe! hahahahaha!
5:19pm - Tue Apr 21st, 2009
5:16pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
6:26pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Following religion is like living in the Truman Show.
6:26pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Following religion is like living in the Truman Show.
6:33am - Sat Apr 11th, 2009
11:48am - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
11:54am - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:06pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:29pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:32pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:35pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:42pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
The bishop warned her that she would [removed] along with all of her family members, he more or less cursed her. CRAZY
12:48pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:41pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
I have a neighbor who embellishes just like you do.
2:05pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:17pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Any bets she didn’t keep the letter but rather threw it away never to be proved wrong.
I’ve just met so many people like you and it’s maddening. I stood on my neighbor’s porch with her while she talked to two young missionaries. She was very rude to them and told them she wasn’t interested. No big deal. Later I heard her recounting the incident to our other neighbor only it sounded so different from how I remembered it. She said the missionaries were yelling at her for not letting her kids get baptized and they told her that they would all go to he** in front of her kids!
I’ve known too many people like you. It gets so irritating listening to your lies.
3:45pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
9:22pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:29pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:31pm - Sat Apr 11th, 2009
9:19pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
My mom did it. I read their responses to her. Absolutely condescending, patronizing, rude, self-righteous, and appalling. But it's worth it.
I haven't done it yet merely because I don't want to deal with these people for 1 second of my day. But it's inevitable - it's going to happen very soon. Especially after Prop H8TE and living in Utah for 3 years.
3:41pm - Sat Apr 11th, 2009
9:30pm - Sat Apr 11th, 2009
8:31am - Sun Apr 12th, 2009
5:18pm - Sun Apr 12th, 2009
12:36pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:37pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:41pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:43pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:52pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:38pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
LDS Membership Records Dept.
50 E North Temple Rm 1372
Salt Lake City, UT 84150-5310
(801) 240-3500
12:40pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:50pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:48pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
People like you make all the mormons look bad.
1:15pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:44pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Once they get your name they hold onto it like its ambrosia.
5:38pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:58pm - Sun Apr 12th, 2009
5:35pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
7:51pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Since you are obviously trolling for an ignorant response, I believe I will let your own conscience roll in the mud you have prepared to sling at me.
1:36pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Yet you make that sound bad. Are you Godless?
2:04pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:20pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:52pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:09pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
4:24pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:15pm - Sun Apr 12th, 2009
8:46pm - Mon Apr 20th, 2009
1:38pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
6:01pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
The enormity of the disbelief is unbelievable.
7:53pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
The enormity of the disbelief is unbelievable.
5:41pm - Sun Apr 12th, 2009
8:56pm - Mon Apr 20th, 2009
Do you really think that God condoned the mormons butchering unnarmed men, women, and (Children)???
the Israelites lived under the law, christians live under GRACE. but GRACE is probably something that you are unable to comprehend because you life in the flesh.
I am sure you don't understand what living in the flesh means to, if you believe that God would sanction murder under the age of grace.
and actually, Prophet DOES mean perfect. It means that everything that a prophet does or says HAS TO BE ordered by God, otherwise they are a FALSE Prophet, read the bible for a change and put down that funny blue book.
So is this what the lds say to each other because of all of the lies and murder and hypocrisy?? You guys just say "prophet of god doesn't mean perfect in God.
wow, you really need to find Jesus, and leave religion, it has fried your mind.
10:42pm - Tue Apr 21st, 2009
Read the Bible instead of anti-mormon literature for a change and you will find that the Bible says that Abraham lied, Noah got drunk, and Jesus was the only one ever mentioned to be perfect.
10:10pm - Wed Apr 22nd, 2009
Second, perfection, at least in word, is mandatory to fulfill the calling of a prophet.
We know that JS was a false prophet because many of his prophecies did not come to pass.
I won't go into the myriad of prophecies that js gave because you can find them yourself, in your own churches documents.
Lastly, why do you call facts anti-mormon literature?
If you can take any advice, I would say to look in the (bible) and find out what the bible says about a prophet that has prophecies that do not come to pass.
God Bless your eyes and ears.
6:17pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
So the fact that you "can't" count is irrelevant. The fact that the Mormon church does, but doesn't count the ones who aren't really practicing says something.
9:14pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
On top of that, they count members when baptized which is 8 years old. Well with all the kids ya'll have, it's no wonder you think that this is the fastest growing church. But I don't think it's because of new converts or activity rates. Activity rates are high in Utah..nowhere else.
1:19am - Sat Apr 11th, 2009
What are the activity rates in Utah? And what are they in other states and in other countries? This will help compare.
5:03pm - Sun Apr 12th, 2009
8:33am - Tue Apr 14th, 2009
12:12pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
6:24pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Counting members seems to be a Mormon thing...
1:07pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:10pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:33pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
According to the National Council of Churches, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the second-fastest-growing church in the United States. However, despite its increasing numbers, the Church cautions against overemphasis on growth statistics. The Church makes no statistical comparisons with other churches and makes no claim to be the fastest-growing Christian denomination despite frequent news media comments to that effect. Such comparisons rarely take account of a multiplicity of complex factors, including activity rates and death rates, the methodology used in registering or counting members and what factors constitute membership. Growth rates also vary significantly across the world. Additionally, many other factors contribute to the strength of the Church, most especially the devotion and commitment of its members.
2:59pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:19pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:37pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:09pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:23pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:46pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
9:03pm - Mon Apr 20th, 2009
You need to read your BIBLE. To become part of the Body of CHRIST, you MUST be BORN-AGAIN, or do you believe Jesus???? This is what HE said about becoming part of His Body, the true church of God.
Are you so ignorant that you do not know that the body of Christ is not relative to denomination???
Wake up. Please wake up.
12:24pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:36pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:21pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:55pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:09pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:42pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
Sarcasm! Don't miss it!
2:57pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:24pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:39pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:47pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:43pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
9:09pm - Mon Apr 20th, 2009
If that were the case, I could start an organization tomorrow using the name of Christ and tell everyone, see, I am the true church of Jesus Christ.
It is blatant ignorance for you to believe that just because your organization has borrowed the name of Jesus Christ, that you somehow have some kind of monopoly on God.
Please wake up.
9:04pm - Mon Apr 20th, 2009
12:34pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
12:46pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
2:34pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:50pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
3:00pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:28pm - Sun Apr 12th, 2009
12:34pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:18pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
But it's growing in weight, not total numbers.
I blame funeral potatoes.
1:25am - Sat Apr 11th, 2009
1:34pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
1:48pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
5:40pm - Tue Apr 21st, 2009
2:55pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009
I sure hope the LDS don't get too excited, the faster they appear to grow, the faster they fall apart!
6:25pm - Fri Apr 10th, 2009