St. George teen killed when gun discharges
November 16th, 2008 @ 10:00pm
By Sandra Yi
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My condolences to the family of this young man. This is truly tragic. I was at a school production Thursday night, and I felt a bit silly expressing my concern to my friends about the prop gun they had during that play... It reminded me of the awful death of Brandon Lee during the filming of The Crow; prop guns have made me nervous since then. And for this to happen only a few nights later... Just awful. I hope the family will be able to find peace someday.
My condolences to the family of this young man. This is truly tragic. I was at a school production Thursday night, and I felt a bit silly expressing my concern to my friends about the prop gun they had during that play... It reminded me of the awful death of Brandon Lee during the filming of The Crow; prop guns have made me nervous since then. And for this to happen only a few nights later... Just awful. I hope the family will be able to find peace someday.
@G 'n' R 49 - If you're in "desperate need" of some people to fill out your survey, get off your [no swearing please] and go find people instead of diverting attention from this tragic story.
So, who pulled the trigger and then ran?
**crickets chirping**
**crickets chirping**
@Goet - I thought the exact same thing.
Even if it was a prop gun, why would he aim it at his own head and pull the trigger?
I'm sure there's someone out there who knows what really happened who aint talkin.
Even if it was a prop gun, why would he aim it at his own head and pull the trigger?
I'm sure there's someone out there who knows what really happened who aint talkin.
@ToiletBrusch - From what I understand, but the media is not reporting...the day before he talked about filling the prop gun with paper because he knew that the force would be able to injure him. I think the media likes to make guns the enemy here, but kids at the school were saying he was suidical and knew what he was doing. Whether that is true or not, I don't know, but it needs to be considered. Its what the other students in the play are saying.
Sad situation, My heart goes out to the family. This is a sad situation. Its not the guns fault. A gun is a gun, no matter if it has blanks or not, it should be treated with the most respect. This kid should have known that being a certified range instructor with the boyscouts. A gun does not just go off. Somebody was dangerously screwing off with the weapon. You have to have a gun in a dangerous position in order for a blank to kill.(like pointed at your head, mouth etc.) If the gun was dropped and gone off it would not have had the impact that it did. But we do not have the facts yet. My heart goes to the family. But lets not turn this into, there should not have been a gun at a play and find some greedy money hungry lawyer and sue the school.
A real gun (even with blanks) should not be allowed in school. This is a horrible accident waiting to happen (and looks like it did).
What was the teacher and the school thinking. I feel sorry for the family and I hope they will look back at the fun times and love they shared with their son.
As for the teacher; should be terminated and charged with brining dangerous weapon to a school (Misdemeanor B) and Negligent Homicide/Manslaughter (Felony 3).
What was the teacher and the school thinking. I feel sorry for the family and I hope they will look back at the fun times and love they shared with their son.
As for the teacher; should be terminated and charged with brining dangerous weapon to a school (Misdemeanor B) and Negligent Homicide/Manslaughter (Felony 3).
@Chadpslc - if a student stabs himself with a knife in home economics class, should the teacher be terminated and charged?? I know you will say it is not the same thing, but it is. The gun was a prop. It was loaded with blanks. It is a tragic accident. Let's not ruin more lives just because somebody was careless.
@nugentrocks - If the students in economics class were throwing the knife at other students you would expect them to be fake non-dangerous knifes or you would have that student expelled. If you are in a play that you point a gun at another student and pull the trigger IT HAD BETTER BE A FAKE GUN period. That teacher should be fired and a jury should award the family a few million for the schools act of stupidity. Whats next, the school will use REAL drugs to show kids what happens when your high on crack!!!
@Yourmama - If the kids in home-ec were throwing knives then someone needs their hind end kicked. And no I dont' think the school should use real drugs to show kids what happens, besides they probably already know. Key point is don't be dumb about it. Yes, someone needs their hind end kicked here, and I wold agree that it is the teacher. If the students were not supervised doing or rehearsing the play, then the gun should have been on the person of the adult. And yes proper gun safety practices should be practiced too. Someone will always find a way to cause harm, or harm will be caused in some accidental way with all manner of devises or things, no matter how many safeties are built in them. It doesn't matter how many safties you have built into the wood chipper, you won't chop your hand off if you don't put it into it.
@nugentrocks - The gun was a stage prop, yes. However it was a real gun! A real gun has no place in a school play, that the story indicdated several students had handled the gun. Were is the gun safety in that? A real gun has no place in a school play.
As to your other, moronic question:
1. If the economic teacher brought in the knife and let the students handle it yes, the teacher should be charged.
2. Lets not ruin more lives? If my child was killed by the actions of this teacher, there weould be **** to pay.
As to your other, moronic question:
1. If the economic teacher brought in the knife and let the students handle it yes, the teacher should be charged.
2. Lets not ruin more lives? If my child was killed by the actions of this teacher, there weould be **** to pay.
@Chadpslc - It was the kids fault end of story.
Parents obviously slacked their duty to teach son to "NOT" point guns at head.
Parents obviously slacked their duty to teach son to "NOT" point guns at head.
@Chadpslc - But everything points towards the kid himself making the mistake and pulling the trigger, not the teacher.
And do you really believe that if a economic teacher had a knife in the classroom and there was a incident involving the knife and a student that the teacher should be charged? Softly put that is just IDIOTIC.
Thats like saying the PE teacher should be charged if a student is injured while playing football, or running and slips. Yes I realize in those scenarios a student didn't die, but the principles are the same.
The teacher is no more at fault than the boys parents, his fellow classmates, you, myself, etc.
If you are still looking for someone to blame, then why not blame yourself? What were you thinking chadpsic???
And do you really believe that if a economic teacher had a knife in the classroom and there was a incident involving the knife and a student that the teacher should be charged? Softly put that is just IDIOTIC.
Thats like saying the PE teacher should be charged if a student is injured while playing football, or running and slips. Yes I realize in those scenarios a student didn't die, but the principles are the same.
The teacher is no more at fault than the boys parents, his fellow classmates, you, myself, etc.
If you are still looking for someone to blame, then why not blame yourself? What were you thinking chadpsic???
@Chadpslc - The child was not killed by the actions of the teacher. The teacher did not hold the gun to his head and pull the trigger. The teacher, therefore, is not to blame for the incident. As i have stated before on one of your other trollish posts, I am a high school tech crew member. Our teacher expects us to be responsible, and as such, we find ourselves handling things that could injure us. For example, I got my arm cought by sound dampners while setting up for a concert, and got pretty cut up and bruised, but there is no one to blame except myself and the board, but it really doesn't do me any good to kick a peice of metal and injure myself more now, does it? I am trying to say that injuries can happen. If I hadn't been quick at moving my arm, i could possibly be missing a limb, but I would still not blame the teacher. Have a heart, you troll.
@Chadpslc - Go back to your lynch mob and leave the teacher alone. Accidents happen. Every time something tragic happens there does not have to be legal action taken. How would you feel if you were the teacher?
@JRedRocker - Poor teacher, wrong... Poor family having to deal with the idiotic teacher and school that allowed a REAL gun to be brought in to the school and handled by MINORS.
If I was the teacher, I would accept that I was an idiot... however, I'm smart enought not to bring a REAL gun into a school and have minors play with it.
If I was the teacher, I would accept that I was an idiot... however, I'm smart enought not to bring a REAL gun into a school and have minors play with it.
@Chadpslc - Please don't vilify a good man, who I am sure is grieving over this tragedy as much as anyone. I am also certain that if any of this is his fault or not he is beating himself up more than anyone else is. Read some more of the posts that refer to personal responsibility.
@Chadpslc - Typically i would agree with you but in this case the gun was "properly" secured in a locked box. It was only one persons fault. This news story serves as a Good reminder for you trigger happy people to point your fire arm down at the ground and away from people.
@I Want The Truth behind Utah - And was the kid "properly" instructed that a blank in a REAL GUN can kill you?
And what if the gun was bumped and not some act of a "trigger happy" person - it just went off.
What if the students did not treat it as a "real gun" and it was dropped the last time it was used and damaged, not treating it as a "real gun", did not maintain it and some poor kid not knowing just picked it up and BANG - what if it was your kid!!!!!
A real gun should NOT have been used NEVER EVER.
And what if the gun was bumped and not some act of a "trigger happy" person - it just went off.
What if the students did not treat it as a "real gun" and it was dropped the last time it was used and damaged, not treating it as a "real gun", did not maintain it and some poor kid not knowing just picked it up and BANG - what if it was your kid!!!!!
A real gun should NOT have been used NEVER EVER.
@Yourmama - In many plays the music is all pre-canned, and I'm sure they could get the same sound from a computer, etc. It seems strange they were firing blanks at all - and in whose direction?
@Sandy C. - Computer sounds are very unrealistic, and, from a tech crews' standpoint, very hard to time to do at the right moment. Not only would you have to have it programmed into something or have it as a cd track, but then you have to instantly get to that sound and work with the sound delay while the actor looks rather stupid for a moment. it is rather impractical.
@Chadpslc - Ok, listen up no one is allowed to drive a vehicle anymore because they kill people. Surrender your keys to your local police department.
Sounds pretty out there doesn't it.
Joper
Sounds pretty out there doesn't it.
Joper
@Chadpslc - My sympathies go out to the family. There is no words that can truly heal the wound that a dead child or sibling leaves, but i ask you not to seek revenge against the school! As a part of the tech crew at my high school, and also as a former drama member, I ask you not to ruin one of the best classes that a kid can take. The prop gun was mishandled, but i am sure that the entire reason that they were allowed to even touch the gun is because the teacher had trusted them! Accidents do happen, and I am very sorry that this happened, but do not ruin the show that this child was so dedicated towards! I'm sure any of you out there reading this comment has made some life threatning mistake or stupid choice (I have!) and were lucky enough to live through it! Did you have your life ruined by it? Probably not. Do not be over eager to pull the living trigger and destroy another life in this terrible accident.
This is a real tragedy. I remember this young man from camp Tracey where he and a few other youths ran their BB gun range. He was a helpful, friendly young man.
Here is where things went wrong: Respect for anything that can cause damage.
Blanks in rifles fire expanding powder. Walls in stage props can fall down. Sissors can stab you if you run with them. Chairs can break your neck if you use them as ladders.
Respect anything that has the power to cause damage.
p.s. KSL, that was a nice cut on guns. Using the "gun" word, I am sure you were going for increased readership of the article. The fact is a student died by using somthing that could hurt him inapproperately. Sandra Yi, nice way to *use* this poor tragedy to push your demonistic view of firearms.
Here is where things went wrong: Respect for anything that can cause damage.
Blanks in rifles fire expanding powder. Walls in stage props can fall down. Sissors can stab you if you run with them. Chairs can break your neck if you use them as ladders.
Respect anything that has the power to cause damage.
p.s. KSL, that was a nice cut on guns. Using the "gun" word, I am sure you were going for increased readership of the article. The fact is a student died by using somthing that could hurt him inapproperately. Sandra Yi, nice way to *use* this poor tragedy to push your demonistic view of firearms.
@Big Mac with Cheese - They use the same arguement I use for Marijuana... Except Marijuana has never killed a single human being... Or lab rat for that matter.
I know... Off subject. I'm also pro guns. Just need more education in their use and potential.
I know... Off subject. I'm also pro guns. Just need more education in their use and potential.
@littleloomy - somebodys cousin Timmy died from an overdose of pot.
@2realities - Over 1,500 lbs of bud in 15 minutes. Thats what the AMA estimates a 50% chance of a lethal dose to be. Estimate only because they were unable to even kill a lab rat.
Guns are cool though. The best part of guns are... The Darwin is usually on the butt end of the rifle.
Guns are cool though. The best part of guns are... The Darwin is usually on the butt end of the rifle.
@littleloomy - The danger with Marijuana may not be from an overdose, but from idiots on marijuana that think they are not impaired but choose to drive, or other activities that should not be attempted when mentally impaired.
Since it appears there were no witnesses it seems that this young man pointed the gun at his own head and pulled the trigger. His parents are angry at the school for allowing a gun with blanks and claim their son was "familiar with guns" - I call BS. How about, this is tragic because your son pointed a gun at his head and pulled the trigger. The responsibility rests with him and him alone. Maybe it's harsh, but at least it is the truth.
It is high time that personal responsibility came back into this country. While it is a horrible tragedy for these parents to lose their son to something so stupid, he reaped what he sowed when he pointed a gun (prop gun or not) at his head and pulled the trigger. Don't dishonor his memory by turning his error into a witchhunt against the school when apparently nobody else was around.
It is high time that personal responsibility came back into this country. While it is a horrible tragedy for these parents to lose their son to something so stupid, he reaped what he sowed when he pointed a gun (prop gun or not) at his head and pulled the trigger. Don't dishonor his memory by turning his error into a witchhunt against the school when apparently nobody else was around.
@Cabo - Unless there is more information than KSL is sharing, this sounds like a tragic accident caused by: the victim. My heart goes out to his family because I have sons around this age and would be mortified if something happened to one of them. But this country is in a huge decline due to nobody taking personal responsibility. If indeed he was alone with the gun and he pulled the trigger then he is at fault, not the school. The parents say he is familiar with guns. Anyone familiar with guns know NEVER to point a gun at themselves. And it doesn't seem like KSL knows whether the gun was real or a prop. In the first posting it said it was a prop gun. In the second it is called a real gun. Which was it?? Does it really matter. The end result is a young man lost his life to a senseless accident. The school is not at fault here.
@Cabo - It was not the school that pulled the trigger. Parents seriously save the school from a fraudulent law suit if you really care. (You would lost "BADLY" if i was selected to be on that jury). Let it be you "screwed up" parents.
It is always sad when a tragic death occurs. I am sorry to anyone who knew the victim. No one plans for this. Kids go to school to learn. If drama kids really want go on to a career in drama they need to have as realistic sets and experiences as possible. The question is not why was there a gun at school, that answer is obvious and legitimate. The question is why was proper instruction not given or adult control exercised. Maybe the answer is that everyone thought he was a certified range instructor and knew better?
@Kyle M. - Bad things happen http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/27/boy.shoots.himself.ap/index.html
And don't go barking about this man being a bad parent for taking his son to a professional shooting range with professional instruction. Every parent is a great parent till their child dies.
And don't go barking about this man being a bad parent for taking his son to a professional shooting range with professional instruction. Every parent is a great parent till their child dies.
Are they referring to a gun range??? [no swearing please].. Are they JOKING.. He was 15, right? Who gives a job as a gun range instructure to a 15 year old? This type of thinking causes deaths. WOW..
@Scottinsaltlake - If I remember him correctly, he helped at a cub scout camp BB gun range. This was not a range where they use firearms. BB guns don't use fire, they use air. BB guns are not firearms.
@Big Mac with Cheese - Ya, but I bet a BB gun can still kill.
What type of injury occurs in this situation? Is the person visibly injured or is it some sort of internal injury?
@Cupboy - The escaping gases leave the barrel of the gun at a super sonic rate (Sonic boom) giving you the loud crack (Report of the gun). Those gases leaving the barrel are all headed in one direction kinda like a "shape charge" explosive. After a few feet those gases are quickly dispursed with the rest of the atmosphere, however at very close range (Held up to ones head) Could easily knock a piece of ones skull and that in turn becomes the projectile. The piece of skull would travel at a high rate in which ever direction the gases were heading... Probably in this case toward the other side of the skull.
The scene probably looked as though he was shot with a real bullet until they looked at the situation closer.
The scene probably looked as though he was shot with a real bullet until they looked at the situation closer.
it should be mandatory, that gun safety be taught in school.
years ago a promising young actor, Jon Eric Hexum was playing with a gun loaded with blanks, he died, his heart went to someone, as far as I know that person is still alive today.
It is funny how some people on here make this into a political issue! There is other political stories you can comment on! A young child was killed. My heart and prayers go out to this family I hope everything gets better. I truly am sorry about your loss.
There was already a lock down at that school because of a gun being used as a prop for Oklahoma. Wasn't that enough of a "heads up?"
Either way, my sympathies to the family. A tragedy indeed.
Either way, my sympathies to the family. A tragedy indeed.
My condolences to all involved. I am certain that many people will be affected by this horrible tragedy; his family, friends, fellow students, and teachers. Many of his teachers are my friends and colleagues. I wish them peace, comfort, and understanding as they help guide others through this tragedy as well.
Having been a head theater tech. for the same drama teacher 14 years ago I can only imagine the anguish being experienced by him right now. He holds his students to the highest of standards and in turn places a great deal of responsibility and trust in them. He has inspired many, myself included, to reach for their dreams and beyond.
Again my condolences to all in this horrible tragedy. My the peace of the Lord be upon all of you.
Having been a head theater tech. for the same drama teacher 14 years ago I can only imagine the anguish being experienced by him right now. He holds his students to the highest of standards and in turn places a great deal of responsibility and trust in them. He has inspired many, myself included, to reach for their dreams and beyond.
Again my condolences to all in this horrible tragedy. My the peace of the Lord be upon all of you.
@D-moose - I agree with you 100%, I was under this same teacher some 10 years ago, and he always made sure that the students safety was always first. He is one of the most inspiritional teachers that I have ever had, he was always there when I needed some advice, espceially when my own father was not available all of the time.
As for the family of this teenager my heart is full of emotions for them at this rough time in their lives.
As for the family of this teenager my heart is full of emotions for them at this rough time in their lives.
a weapon doers not just discharge it was no accident, it was negligence. I dont know the backgrounbd of the kid but you never give a child a loaded weapon while unsupervised. And as far as blaks go there was a famous actor killed a few years ago, maybe the teacher should have done some research,and went for safety instead or reality.
Accidental discharge no such thing
Negligent discharge yes
Romrell
National Guard
Accidental discharge no such thing
Negligent discharge yes
Romrell
National Guard
No one knows exactly what happened, so stop speculating so much.
I'm tired of reading that "guns don't EVER go off". Yes, in 99.999999% of cases they don't - but that doesn't mean that isn't what happened. No one on this board knows with absolute certainty that the gun didn't go off due to mechanical failure.
I'm tired of reading that "guns don't EVER go off". Yes, in 99.999999% of cases they don't - but that doesn't mean that isn't what happened. No one on this board knows with absolute certainty that the gun didn't go off due to mechanical failure.
that is SO sad. It just goes to show that you never know what could happen to a loved one any day and you should never take those you love for granted. My heart goes out to his family.
1. The kid was hardly a Child.
2. If the gun was to be used by an adult as sound effects, why was this kid shot.
3. Was it the kid that was shot pull the trigger, not realizing the danger?
4. Did someone else do it, again not realizing the danger?
Scouts and the NRA teach:
Always assume a gun is loaded.
Never point it at any thing you don't want to shoot
Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
Never put your finger on the trigger until you plan to shoot.
I once saw a pop can knocked clear across a basket ball gym with a blank. Pretty impressive.
No matter what, it sounds like an accident.
Let the parents and friends morn the loss.
2. If the gun was to be used by an adult as sound effects, why was this kid shot.
3. Was it the kid that was shot pull the trigger, not realizing the danger?
4. Did someone else do it, again not realizing the danger?
Scouts and the NRA teach:
Always assume a gun is loaded.
Never point it at any thing you don't want to shoot
Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
Never put your finger on the trigger until you plan to shoot.
I once saw a pop can knocked clear across a basket ball gym with a blank. Pretty impressive.
No matter what, it sounds like an accident.
Let the parents and friends morn the loss.
In order for a gun to go off, one must pull back the hammer, load the action etc. If this has happened and then if it is dropped it might be able to go off. But the article states he died from massive head trauma. So the gun was not dropped, unless he was laying on the floor throwing a cocked gun up in the air. In order to obtain the damage to the head one must have a gun pointed at his head. Then pulling the trigger. I hate to state it. It is truely a sad accident. This kid was not 2 years old. he had handled guns enough to be a certified range instructor for BSA (wether a BB gun or not)he had been taught about safety with guns. Condolences to the family, but get off the kick of blaming the teachers, the guns, the school, supervision etc. People just don't take guns and pull the trigger by their head for the heck of it. Unless there are other issues. Guns don't have accidents/ kill, people have accidents/kill. I have plenty of guns and I have never had one just jump out of its storage place or where ever and start shooting. Its the person behind it that cause the problems. But I am sure that people are going to look for a scap goat and sue the teachers/ school. In this country anymore there is no such thing as an accident, there always has to be somebody to blame and there is always a greedy lawyer willing to help sue. Fact I would not be suprise if the family has had ten million lawyers already get in touch to start the suet. Condolences to his family and friends.
I am positive that kid knew more about guns than i know and even i know you "never ever" point a gun in the direction of a human.
I smell mommy and daddy filing a fraudulent law suit after listening to the ten PM news update. Hopefully there is at least one smart judge in Utah and tosses it out when its filed.
I smell mommy and daddy filing a fraudulent law suit after listening to the ten PM news update. Hopefully there is at least one smart judge in Utah and tosses it out when its filed.
reminds me of what happened to Jon-Erik Hexum in the mid-1980's. He too was on the set (of a tv show) and did the same thing. He wasn't killed, but was brain dead. He was later taken off life-support.
Tragic either way.
Tragic either way.
are with this young man's family at this time. What a horrible thing to happen and to have such a short young promising life cut down in that way. I hope that his family will find some kind of comfort in knowing that his job here on this earth was finished and it was time for him to be with God. God has a much bigger job in heaven.
But what bothers me about this story is first I heard it was a prop gun then it was a real gun. What are they doing using either type of gun in a school play?? I thought that it was against the law to have a weapon in school? If it is then it whould also mean that they can not use one in a school play. Maybe if the school district and the so called adults that were in charge of all of this would have followed these guide lines this young man would still be alive and his family could be making plans for Thanksgiving and Christmas instead of plans for their son's funneral. I hope that the law inforcement in the area will do a full investigation into this matter and if there is negligence involved in this matter.
But what bothers me about this story is first I heard it was a prop gun then it was a real gun. What are they doing using either type of gun in a school play?? I thought that it was against the law to have a weapon in school? If it is then it whould also mean that they can not use one in a school play. Maybe if the school district and the so called adults that were in charge of all of this would have followed these guide lines this young man would still be alive and his family could be making plans for Thanksgiving and Christmas instead of plans for their son's funneral. I hope that the law inforcement in the area will do a full investigation into this matter and if there is negligence involved in this matter.
@Polarprincess - This whole thing is a horrible tragedy. Guns are allowed in schools in a controlled situation (police officers, concealed weapon permit holders, historical artifacts, props for plays, etc.) I feel horrible for everyone involved. Clearly his family is impacted more than others who are involved, but don't discredit those who are not family who feel a loss as well. Included in those who are experiencing loss and grief is the teacher. There is no need to vilify him. There are always going to be the "what if" questions that will haunt everyone involved in this tragedy.
Don't go on a witch hunt to and try to blame the school, the teacher, the parents, the friends, or the kid himself. Witch hunts like you are advocating only compound tragedies such as this one. Tragic as it is the person most responsible for this tragedy, unless there is information that is yet to be disclosed, is the student himself.
If we must go searching for others to blame then yes the teacher could be blamed for not being present while the student had the gun in his possession. The other students involved in the production could be blamed for not letting the teacher know that this student was not following the safety procedures in place. The school could be blamed for allowing the production to include a gun in the play in the first place. The school district could be blamed for not having a policy in place to prevent something like this from happening. The State School Board could be at blame for the same reason. The BSA could be at blame for teaching this young man about firearms and how to use them. And for that matter his parents could have not allowed him to be involved in the play. They knew before hand that guns were involved and that their son would be handling them. A neighbor that was interviewed. Said the kid talked about it frequently. So, the parents could be to blame as well. After all they knew him better than anyone else?
Does it do any good to blame any of the aforementioned people? No! Barring information that is yet to be revealed none of the aforementioned people wanted harm to come to this young man. Leave them alone! Investigate, learn from the mistakes, and try to move on.
Don't go on a witch hunt to and try to blame the school, the teacher, the parents, the friends, or the kid himself. Witch hunts like you are advocating only compound tragedies such as this one. Tragic as it is the person most responsible for this tragedy, unless there is information that is yet to be disclosed, is the student himself.
If we must go searching for others to blame then yes the teacher could be blamed for not being present while the student had the gun in his possession. The other students involved in the production could be blamed for not letting the teacher know that this student was not following the safety procedures in place. The school could be blamed for allowing the production to include a gun in the play in the first place. The school district could be blamed for not having a policy in place to prevent something like this from happening. The State School Board could be at blame for the same reason. The BSA could be at blame for teaching this young man about firearms and how to use them. And for that matter his parents could have not allowed him to be involved in the play. They knew before hand that guns were involved and that their son would be handling them. A neighbor that was interviewed. Said the kid talked about it frequently. So, the parents could be to blame as well. After all they knew him better than anyone else?
Does it do any good to blame any of the aforementioned people? No! Barring information that is yet to be revealed none of the aforementioned people wanted harm to come to this young man. Leave them alone! Investigate, learn from the mistakes, and try to move on.
Whether this gun was loaded with blanks or real ammunition, it would have to have been pointed at his head. How did this gun end up pointed at his head?
Now, blanks are far more dangerous than many people believe, but to have caused death, the gun would have to have been aimed at nearly point-blank range - at an arm's length distance or less. Again, how did the barrel of this gun end up pointed at this young man's head -- at near enough to point-blank range?
We are not getting the whole story here.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the Thayer family and to the friends he left behind.
Now, blanks are far more dangerous than many people believe, but to have caused death, the gun would have to have been aimed at nearly point-blank range - at an arm's length distance or less. Again, how did the barrel of this gun end up pointed at this young man's head -- at near enough to point-blank range?
We are not getting the whole story here.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the Thayer family and to the friends he left behind.
The school budget will get hit hard when the ambulance chasing attornets arrive to get the law suit going.
The four rules of gun saftey prove themselves true once again. If followed there would be no "accidental shooting". The reality is this boy decided to violate one of these rules on purpose, and the out come was therefor predictable.
1. All guns are always loaded. (note: no seperation between toy, blank, or real)
2. Keep your finger off the trigger until you sights are on the target and you make decision to fire.
3. Never let your muzzle cover any thing your not willing to kill, destroy, or pay for.
4. Be sure of your back stop and whats beyond.
As you can see all 4 rules were violated, had they been followed the kid would still be alive. Now place fault were it belongs, on the kid who was plenty old enought to know better.
1. All guns are always loaded. (note: no seperation between toy, blank, or real)
2. Keep your finger off the trigger until you sights are on the target and you make decision to fire.
3. Never let your muzzle cover any thing your not willing to kill, destroy, or pay for.
4. Be sure of your back stop and whats beyond.
As you can see all 4 rules were violated, had they been followed the kid would still be alive. Now place fault were it belongs, on the kid who was plenty old enought to know better.
I cannot say any more than what has been said. I was not going to comment and I held off. It is now Monday and I have to say something. When I was in junior high school I too saw and empty coke can fly across a gym floor when a pistol firing a blank held next to it and fired. Earlier I had told friends that blanks were dangerous they laughed at me. This is a horrible way to teach others, from now on those who are in such productions should be warned of such dangers.
I was a stage manager backstage at BYU's production of Oklahoma a few years ago and I was in charge of the guns used. The prop guns we had had solid barrels, not hollow like real guns. Before every rehearsal and performance I had the actors who would handle the guns be there to watch me load the guns with all empty bullet casings except for one blank. We had training, practices and I always had the guns in a locked box up until the very last second that they were needed on stage. This tragic event in St. George was very poorly handled by the adult supervision for the production.
If this Gun was only to be used by a adult then why was is it out in the open and not in the hands of adult while the set was being set up.
My heart and prayers go out to this kids family.
My heart and prayers go out to this kids family.
C'mon who lets a real gun in the school. with all the technology out there they want to use a real gun. Here is a safe idea drama teacha. Soft Air guns look real. Google gun shot sound and download bang. I feel bad for the family and the teacher (fired) and the principal (terminated).
I work for a very large school district and for many years now there has been a very firm district policy prohibiting any weapons on any and all district property. Violators are subject to immediate discipline which will usually be termination of their employment. A real gun has no place in or on any district property. Simple as that. It is terribly unfortunate that the decision was made to have a gun at the school. Blank ammunition is deadly within a few feet of the gun and can do as much harm as a real bullet as far as bloody puncture wounds and can break bones, put out eyes, etc. Very poor judgement.
My thoughts, prayers and concerns go out the family of this young man and his family. Also to all the rest who wre involved. It certainly must hurt the heart terribly. Many tears will flow for them all.
My thoughts, prayers and concerns go out the family of this young man and his family. Also to all the rest who wre involved. It certainly must hurt the heart terribly. Many tears will flow for them all.
This is so sad.
We went to see Oklahoma at Timpview High School last weekend in Provo and it was so delightful. The little cowboys were so cute with their dancing and shooting and everything. I would have never imagined that such a tragedy could happen from something that was supposed to be so fun and exciting for the kids.
With all of my heart, I wish his family strength, courage and peace.
We went to see Oklahoma at Timpview High School last weekend in Provo and it was so delightful. The little cowboys were so cute with their dancing and shooting and everything. I would have never imagined that such a tragedy could happen from something that was supposed to be so fun and exciting for the kids.
With all of my heart, I wish his family strength, courage and peace.
If this Gun was only to be used by an Adult person then why was is it out in the open and not in the hands of a adult while the set was being set up or at all times the gun was in the school.
My heart and prayers go out to this kids family and friends.
My heart and prayers go out to this kids family and friends.
I was in a youth group that this boy was a part of in the past year. I knew this boy well, he was the kind of kid that rules did not apply to. He was very hard to handle and control. Anyone that was around him for more than 10 min. would know this. That being said, why did this boy have the gun? I am sure it was a mistake that the teacher regrets. I know it is not completely the teachers fault, the boy most likely broke the rules, but having a gun, real or fake in a school it not smart. Why even have the option there. Having it not been too long ago that I was in high school, boys that age are not to responsible, don't leave the door open for them to do something stupid. It's not worth a cool sound in a play to take a boy's life.
I can only imagine the pain that this family is facing, my thoughts and prayers are with you guys and the teacher and students involved.
I can only imagine the pain that this family is facing, my thoughts and prayers are with you guys and the teacher and students involved.
If you ever see a "blank" gun anywhere, please remember this story. I don't think that the adults involved knew how dangerouse a "blank" gun really is. When I was about 10, my friend stole a blank gun from the mall, he came out of the mall and showed it to me. He loaded it and laughing, pointed it at my face (a instictual target) and pulled the trigger. I could not believe he was that stupid at first. I was about 10 to 15 feet away when he did this and I remember my face and eyebrows were scortched. He realized that it was stupid when I continued to sream in agony and that I was not joking, He later recieved a kick in the marbles. I often think of that day and what would have happened if he had put it to my head thinking, "its only a blank. Blanks work the same as real bullets, they just do not have a led projectile. Please remember and inform people of this.
My prayers to the family. Truley heart breaking.
My prayers to the family. Truley heart breaking.
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3:31pm - Sun Nov 16th, 2008
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2184/what-happens-when-a-gun-fires-blanks
Terrible tragedy!!
4:01pm - Sun Nov 16th, 2008
6:25pm - Sun Nov 16th, 2008
That begs the question of how this young man was turned loose with what we assume he thought to a non-lethal stage weapon. Sure, he was a BSA instructor for BB guns and .22s. Probably knows more than me about them, however, putting any gun to ones own head shows a lack of maturity and/or training.
I am impressed that this at school used real blanks in their production, especially in this day and age. That's impressive for the quaility of the play, but come on! Where's the safety training?! Take the gun outside and show the kids what it would do to a pumpkin at point blank. I bet some of them wouldn't want it anywhere near them after that demonstration.
Teach them respect for guns (and scissors, germs, chemistry, physics, etc.), not fear.
8:10pm - Sun Nov 16th, 2008
Sad situation no matter how you look at it.
Joper
6:20am - Mon Nov 17th, 2008
At one time I had a gun like once used at sporting events. It was 22 caliber and the force of the discharge exited out the top of the barrel just ahead of the chamber.
So is there a prop gun like the one I described, for a larger caliber blank? I would think one designed like that for a .38 cal. would be very dangerous having the blast forced out the top of the barrel.
After seeing the blank in the video, it appears to be a standard .38 claiber only with a longer cartridge to accommodate the blank wad. I don't think a wad that big could be shot out a diverter barrel of a blank gun as I have described.
I just want to know the difference between a .38 caliber prop gun and a .38 caliber hand gun. I've gone to prop/blank gun web sites and all they say is the prop gun is permanently plugged so it won't fire real ammo. As far as I can tell, the blast still goes out the barrel just like any actual hand gun.
If that is the case, there is no difference between a real hand gun and a stage prop gun as far as energy directed out the barrel. If someone knows for sure, tell us about it.
A lot of folks are getting all twisted here about a real gun without knowing what the difference is.
Sk8boy
8:09am - Mon Nov 17th, 2008
C'mon now, open your mind and learn for a change.
Sk8boy
9:56am - Mon Nov 17th, 2008
5:30pm - Sun Nov 16th, 2008
I've been a gun owner all my life and you have to treat every gun as a loaded gun ALL the time. I've got a bullet hole to prove what happens when you don't pay attention. Entry and exit hole and it hurt too.
Sad for the family. Prayers go out to them
8:27pm - Sun Nov 16th, 2008
8:54pm - Sun Nov 16th, 2008
11:56pm - Sun Nov 16th, 2008
Life is short - shorter for some than for others. When death happens to someone so early on and so sudden, the best thing you can do is ride off from it. God bless him.
8:56pm - Sun Nov 16th, 2008
10:38pm - Sun Nov 16th, 2008
http://urbansemiotic.com/2006/01/22/the-sad-lesson-of-jon-erik-hexum/
My condolences to the family. My biggest fear is having to bury one of my children. I feel for this family.