Teen faces community service for fatal accident
A 15-year-old Saratoga Springs boy who hit and killed a 4-year-old boy has been ordered to perform 185 hours of community service. November 13th, 2008 @ 11:10am
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I bet if the 4-year old's father beats the 15 year old and the mom with a rubber hose, he'll get charged with aggravated assault, and do several years.
@Greg D. - he would have better sense. What good would it do for him to spend several years in jail (leaving the rest of his family to fend for themselves) by actions that will never bring his child back?
Hopefully he will love his family more than ever because life is uncertain and sometimes fleeting. I hope you never have to step into his shoes and then make a stupid decision that will ruin you life and the lives of the rest of your family.
Hopefully he will love his family more than ever because life is uncertain and sometimes fleeting. I hope you never have to step into his shoes and then make a stupid decision that will ruin you life and the lives of the rest of your family.
Let me guess... he'll still be able to get his license when he becomes of age. A family is in mourning and the other child gets a slap on the wrist for it. Way to go Saratoga!
how sad! his mother set him up for this crime. if she would have been a responsible parent and obeyed the law. there is a reason you have to be 16 and have a liscense. i feel so bad for the family of the little boy. and the 15 year old has to live with that for the rest of his life. i can't even imagine what he must feel.
Also ensure that he doesnt receive his DL until 25 yrs old. Im sorry but 15 yrs old is old enough to know better and just stupid enough to do it. Im glad to hear the mom is also being held responsible for this action but I feel that there should be more punishment for this young man than CS hours.
From my recollection of this story this isnt the first time this kid has driven his mothers car so explain to me why this kid is getting a slap on the wrist to do it again (and you know it will happen again). He should not have the privledge to drive and it is a privledge to drive.
From my recollection of this story this isnt the first time this kid has driven his mothers car so explain to me why this kid is getting a slap on the wrist to do it again (and you know it will happen again). He should not have the privledge to drive and it is a privledge to drive.
@Sugarbutt92 - I also know of many adults that have backed up over children before, even their own children. While wisdom does come with age, accidents can happen to anyone.
It is tragic and devestating. But it is still an accident. Yes this one was preventable by not allowing an underage drive behind the wheel, but in the end still an accident.
It is tragic and devestating. But it is still an accident. Yes this one was preventable by not allowing an underage drive behind the wheel, but in the end still an accident.
and with 2 young sisters this is horrifying. we ride bikes and play on skateboards and they wait each morning at a corner for the school bus. it makes you cringe everytime you hear tires squeal.
my family's prayers go out to the child's family.
my family's prayers go out to the child's family.
I make my kids do community service for even disobeing me. One summer my kids did a whole entire summer of community service just for sneaking out to a party ! If this were my 15 year old he'd be doing a heck of alot more than community service. And if it were my 4 yr old I'd go beat the he$$ out of the 15 yr old. ( AND MORE )
that who ever is in charge is completly off center. They have no common sense at all. Let's be sensitive and realistic. We may not want to be vendictive but we have to wonder how they would react if this would happen in their neighborhood? to their child, or one of their own relative? If they would bring these crisis a little closer to home, maybe they would make better judgement. No wonder so many people or kids are getting away w/murder... Our society is letting them!
@give me novaine - If this were a adult with a license other than a 15 year old without a license would we ask this same question?
Accidents happen a 4 year old on a little bike in a busy drop off zone is gonna be hard to see for any one. This is a accident and this kids has to deal with this the rest of his life. Community service is a much better way to punish a otherwise good kid than throwing him to the wolves.
Accidents happen a 4 year old on a little bike in a busy drop off zone is gonna be hard to see for any one. This is a accident and this kids has to deal with this the rest of his life. Community service is a much better way to punish a otherwise good kid than throwing him to the wolves.
That he is not responsible for his actions...I can do anything I want and my punishment will be minimal. It's the problem with most Americans today...
@paradise6 - He is not getting away with it at all. If he had stolen the car and killed someone that would be different but this was a otherwise good kid who accidentally hit and killed a little kid on a bike. He was practicing his driving and I dont know about you but my parents too me out driving without a permit in the neighborhoods when I was 15. This was a sad tragedy and we shouldn't throw the 15 year olds life away too.
@Serenity_May - but I can't get past that the kid had received warnings from the police about driving w/o a license. My understanding from reading others' comments in past articles is that since he was driving on HOA owned roads, the police could only offer a warning.
To me, this is a blatent '[removed]. I'll do what I want. you cant touch me.', and look what happened. Plus the mother supported it. There should be no sympathy the second time around.
To me, this is a blatent '[removed]. I'll do what I want. you cant touch me.', and look what happened. Plus the mother supported it. There should be no sympathy the second time around.
I have true example. A 16 year old boy was trying to outrun the police and ended up crashing; killing one person and the other person is now mentally and physically disabled. The driver was fine. They took away his license and put him in juvenile hall for a couple of years. A little over 5 years later this same person killed two more people in a drunk driving accident. 3 lives lost 1 destroyed. He has been in prison for 12 years now and will remain for quite some time. Could the justice system have been better the first time around? I think so, obviously he did not learn.
@momtothreeboys - between what that person did and this situation I hope to god you never pursue a career as a judge.
@momtothreeboys - You are not taking into account the individual. The young man you speak of may simply not care about anything, especially authority or consequences. However, if you put another youth through the same hoops, he may likely never even get a parking ticket for the rest of his life. There is no way to tell, thus it is not fair to remove discretion from the judge, nor to eliminate second chances. There is no way to know if community service will or will not work unless it is tried. If he had had prior problems, it is doubtful CS would be on the table. But it is very likely that exposing an otherwise good kid to the juvenile lock up will do more harm to him than good. Is two lives lost better than one?
@momtothreeboys - This kid was not running from the police, he was a 15 year old, with his mother, learning how to drive in anticipation of getting his licence at 16. It could have been anyone of us in that car.
This is a very heart breaking story. I believe that when someone kills somebody that part of their punishment should be to give them a shovel and let them dig a grave for that person. I also think pictures should be placed around the grave so while they are digging they will see the face of their victim.
185 Hours of community service for running over a 4-year-old? Fishy. I suppose blame is not being 100% attributed to the driver. If I were a judge and the teen was 100% at fault, he'd get at least 1 year in jail after he turns 18, mandatory sentence. Otherwise, the juror were on crack or something. But, without looking at he case in detail, it's hard to assume justice wasn't served.
i agree that the 15 year old boy is old enough to know the law and the difference between right and wrong. but i also know a lot of 15 year olds who would jump at the chance to drive a car. the mother is the real criminal of this story. she shouldn't of ever allowed him to think it was ok to drive at that age and without a liscence. i also think that the 15 year old shouldn't get his liscense for a while, but punishing him more will only make things worse. i'm sure he is devestated and is most likely suffering and punishing himself for what he did. growing up with this on his shoulders is going to make his life very very difficult. just my opinion
1. Why was the 4 year old riding his bike on the road?
2. Why was the 4 year old not wearing a helmet?
3. Why was the 4 year old not being supervised by his parents?
2. Why was the 4 year old not wearing a helmet?
3. Why was the 4 year old not being supervised by his parents?
@L C. - 1. The 4 year old was crossing the road ahead of his mother heading home after an older child had just gotten on the bus.
2. I've heard nothing to say that the child was or was not wearing a helmut.
3. Mom was right there, I believe just about to follow him across the crosswalk.
2. I've heard nothing to say that the child was or was not wearing a helmut.
3. Mom was right there, I believe just about to follow him across the crosswalk.
@Legal Eagle - Legal eagle was the kid from Germany?
I believe that he should have been wearing a helmet not a helmut. :)
I believe that he should have been wearing a helmet not a helmut. :)
@WhatRuSmokin - Thank you for catching my typo. However, given the size of some of the Helmust's I've met, had be been wearing one of them, they might have offered quite a bit more protection.
Everyone seems to feel this 15 yr old is guilty of premeditated murder. Put yourselves in this kids shoes, he just took a human life. He is going to suffer with that for the rest of his life. Without some counciling, this will damage him, and affect his ability to live a normal life. Should there be consequences, yes, but we want him to become a productive citizen, not a convict that spends the next 50 years in and out of prison. But we don't want to help him, instead, lets all grab our tourches and pitchforks, go to his house, drag him out and hang him from the nearest tree. Maybe everyone will be happy then.
Was this kid smoking pot? Was he drunk? Did he have a porsche or a[no swearing please]Was he showing off for some girl? Or was he trying to look cool to his buddies by speeding down the road? Was this person a minority? Was this teen rich or poor? What did the parents of the child want to do? If they forgave the teen then what kind of psychos are you people for wanting this teen shot by firing squad. Are these citizens we are talking about here? Unless you were in the courtroom or in the car you should not pass judgment so quickly.
all the 15 year olds i know are really immature and don't think before they act. i think this kid is all ready hating himself for what he did. plus when the other kids are asking him why he is doing community service, he's gonna be reminded of it over and over again. growing up his friends and family will all know what he did. this kid is going to need help and putting him in a cell with kids who are there for good reasons will just make things so much worse. i feel bad for this kid.
I'm thankful my parents taught me to obey the law.
I remember I wanted to back out of the driveway before I got my driver's license and my mom wouldn't let me because she said it was against the law to drive without a license even if it was just in the driveway. Thanks Mom!
I remember I wanted to back out of the driveway before I got my driver's license and my mom wouldn't let me because she said it was against the law to drive without a license even if it was just in the driveway. Thanks Mom!
sympathy, If you were anything like i was before i got my lisence, i enjoyed taking the car down the road. I'm sure this kid wasn't intending on running someone over. The punishment is very weak but he will have to live with this the rest of his life.
My four year old passed away from a person striking him with a vehicle in 2003. At first I wanted her to go to jail and I wanted her to suffer just as I did. I wanted her to cry and feel pain every day. It wasn't until I later heard she had lost her business, home and was on medication because she could not emotionally deal with what she done. I realized that she had made a mistake, one she would remember for the rest of her life. And I also realized that I didn't feel better about the situation and still didn't have my son back.
Point of the story, locking up a 15 year old in our system would only create more of an educated criminal. He would make friends with other juveniles who are doing a lot more than accidently hitting a child while driving a car. They are committing violent and far more excessive "crimes". This accident was one of negligence and I agree that more should have been done other than community service. But who are we to say what the consequences should be? Honestly I think that boy and his mother will never forget what they did. They will be haunted by the death of that child for a very long time. Leave it at that and let God to the rest of the judging.
Point of the story, locking up a 15 year old in our system would only create more of an educated criminal. He would make friends with other juveniles who are doing a lot more than accidently hitting a child while driving a car. They are committing violent and far more excessive "crimes". This accident was one of negligence and I agree that more should have been done other than community service. But who are we to say what the consequences should be? Honestly I think that boy and his mother will never forget what they did. They will be haunted by the death of that child for a very long time. Leave it at that and let God to the rest of the judging.
see he knew better on driving see how the system works only giving so many days but let it be a sex a fender our a druggie and they throw away the key what is the system coming two thats wrong on the choice put tour self in the parents place what a messed up system we gave
i feel bad for the family. loosing a child is heart breaking, but the parents who say this kid deserves time in prison are rediculous! the mom should be held accountable, No Doubt! But the 15 year old boy didnt mean to hit the kid on purpose. yall should think about how this accident might have traumatized the 15 year old for the rest of his life. And another thing, when i moved to utah i noticed more 3, 4, and 5 year olds playing in the road then in any other state i have lived in. Our kids are not invincible so keep an eye on them.
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I hope she serve jail time AND long time probation.
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Second, Saratoga didn't prosecute, it was Utah County.
Sometimes, lock up isn't the best option, the best option being the punishment that is best in line with the juvenile justice system. What is better, locking this boy up for 6 months with some really bad kids, or forcing him to serve his community?
12:23pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
This is what our system does folks, it only hardens criminals and makes them worse on their way out.
Swedish prisons are very effective. They have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. When their citizens commit crimes, they get intense psychological therapy, and make sure they understand the importance of being a productive citizen.
Our system only produces more criminals.
12:40pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
If it were up to me, the parent would undergo intense parental therapy, and the kid would undergo some intense psychological therapy -- teach the kid (and the parent) the importance of being productive members of society, and make sure they understand that we all cooperate so we can all live happier lives, including the kid and the parent.
it works for Sweden, guys. They have one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Isn't that what justice really is? Less crime?
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not saying i wasn't illegal, but i sure as hell didn't, and wouldn't have, killed anyone. this kid should've gotten a full year of service. 6 days a week, after school and all day saturday, and then went in to be re-evaluated to see if they would do it for another year.
ever picked up trash on the side of the road in snowy freezing weather? makes you wish you would've drank more before the cops confiscated it.
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How would you feel if somebody took your mothers/wifes/daughter/sisters life and all they had to do was community service? Would you be satisfied with that?
11:57am - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
Again I ask, if this is not sufficient punishment, what would you require, keeping in mind the maximum penalty allowed by law?
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I'm not a judge or lawyer so I can't tell you which which punishment is legally correct, but locking him up in prison wouldn't hurt.
12:43pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
I can tell you that the maximum for neg homicide is 1 year in jail, not prison. Now, knowing that the maximum is usually reserved for the most heinous and repeat offenders, how does yanking this kid out of his life and locking him up with the worst kids the state has produced going to help the situation? Are the chances that it will only hurt his chances in life greater than the chance that it will help him?
1:58pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
ASSASINATED..ha ha ha.. been reading to many Dick Tracy books... get real
12:26pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
Lock the kid up where he'll get more bad influence, and he'll likely come out a hardened criminal... and perhaps ruin more lives.
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The only thing that can help this family is forgiveness.
12:25pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
Both were accidents, both ended tragically. I'd actually argue that there was more negligence on the adult messing around with homemade explosives. This was a 15 year old CHILD that made a horrible mistake and will live with that mistake, not intentional harm, for the rest of his life.
Where is your sympathy and compassion now?
12:32pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
Bodaggits I firmly agree with you.
12:35pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
I was saying all the family can do is forgive the boy for what he did. Nothing is going to bring back their child, even vengeance. The heart ache, resentment, and feelings of malice all are as gun powder waiting to be ignited (in addition to being difficult feelings to bare).
Forgiveness is the only real solution. Killing the 15 year old won't bring back your son, and living with guilt and anguish is unreasonable. Live and let die.
I'm reminded of Christ's words for Peter:
"Those who fight by the sword, will die by the sword."
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Without knowing this boys history, I have to give deference to the judge and accept that this is an appropriate punishment. Now, if we are talking about the low lifes that killed that Menchaca girl in a gang drive by shooting, I'm all for lengthy prison terms there. Those are lives whose path was likely set a long time ago and the way back now lost.
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punching this kid is vengeance duh this is why we have a JUSTICE system.
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Maybe you are right, and some of those who have posted wouldn't actually act in the way they say. But perhaps, they really would. Why are they free to state they would assault or kill, but when someone (me) tries to get them and others to see that this is not just a bad idea, but criminal, I'm taken to task?
For that matter, isn't the purpose of this board exactly what we are doing? I would suggest that if defending your opinion or being criticized for it are too much for some, this might not be an appropriate past time.
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You would have to take yourself in your own hands.
12:22pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
I hope if you ever are the cause of an accident you offer yourself up to the family of the victim.
11:19am - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
I'm not saying the ruling is right, here. I'm just saying CS is not as easy/breezy as you think. It is humiliating, exhausting, unpleasant and on the bright side...you get to hang with some real strange people.
11:36am - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
This was a accident not intended tragic as it is he will never forget what happened I am sure.
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I've heard of people convicted of stealing a loaf of bread getting one year in jail.
THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!!
12:03pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
Actually, having no insurance was not his fault, nor was he charged with that. And the sentence was 185 hours, not 150.
12:06pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
They need to tatoo a picture of the 4-year-old on his little wrist that the judge slapped, so he won't ever forget what he did.
2:52pm - Thu Nov 13th, 2008
The 15 yo. certainly had no intention of running over and killing this little boy, but I wonder if charging him with neglagent homicide or vehicular manslaughter would really do anyone any good. It is the mother who bears the ultimate responsibility in this case.