@idkwhy - Don't worry, your savior Obama will make it a federal law that gay marriage be accepted or else all traditional Christians who believe in 1 man 1 woman marriage will be rounded up and put into a concentration camp.

It's a homosexuals dream.

@idkwhy - Check this website out from the LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory?view=8&tab=0&fnum=0
It's 54% for the ban and 45% against it, and that's with most of the precincts reporting! Way to go California for protecting marriage and families!!

@idkwhy - ...that it will fail. equality for everyone.

@idkwhy - http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1

exit polls predict 52% against banning gay marriage.

and 48% against.

@idkwhy - http://www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory

this county by county map demonstrates that Orange, san Bern, riverside counties are hugely in favor of Prop 8 and are way behind the bay area in report.

as LA county goes so will probably go the state and LA and San Diego counties are both around 30% in tops and are leaning in favor of prop 8 at 55%/45%.

the current numbers are actually, probably, skewed high. In-as-much as bay area is about done reporting, I think prop 8 will pass with about 55% in favor.

@idkwhy - Think again chaps.... Looks like you have been flappin your gums a little too early

@idkwhy - I was reading in the NY Times (you know that liberal paper from the East Coast) that a lot of gay people were getting married quick just in case the ban does pass. And unfortunately the wording of the proposal was very confusing making it difficult for many people to vote the way they might have wanted to. But it's good to hear the bay area has not yet come in.

@idkwhy - Looks like it's going to pass to me.

What else should the Mormon Church throw it's money at?

Maybe they should work to ban interacial marrage now.
Or they can work to force everyone to live the life style they think is right.

Truly amazing to me.

@idkwhy - To demonstrate the divisiveness of the issue, let me first point out that I could only call it "Proposition 8." If I'd called it by its original name, "Proposition 8: California Marriage Protection Act," you would think that I want you to vote "Yes on 8." After all, who wouldn't want to protect marriage? If I'd called it by its new name, as determined by California's attorney general and legislative analyst in July, "Proposition 8: Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry," you
would think that I want you to vote "No on 8." After all, who would want to eliminate someone's rights?

And, to demonstrate how far-reaching its effects, I didn't even need to call it "California' s Proposition 8." No matter where this email goes, to any of the 50 states that may have propositions up for vote, I'm confident people will know which state's "Proposition 8" I'm talking
about.

Laurie Goodstein of the New York Times describes the Proposition with poetic imagery: "it is raging like a wind-whipped wildfire in California." More poetic still...from an article in Monday's San Francisco Chronicle:

"Michelle Sundstrom and her husband gave $30,000 to the Yes on 8 campaign and put a sign on their home. But in response, two women parked an SUV in front of their home, with the words 'Bigots live here' painted on the windshield. Sundstrom believes such responses must come from deep places of pain-and that gays and lesbians are entitled to the same rights as heterosexuals, just not the word marriage. Any animosity toward gays or lesbians is wrong, she said.

"There must be such deep, deep, deep hurt; otherwise there couldn't be so much opposition," she said. "They've lived with this. I guess we're getting a taste of where they live."

Wow. Perhaps all this craziness and hate-slinging is actually getting us somewhere. A heterosexual Mormon couple has a "Bigots live here" sign parked in front of their house, and what's their response? "They've lived with this. I guess we're getting a taste of where they live."

And she didn't just say "deep hurt." She said "deep, deep, deep hurt." I know the depth of that pain. I grew up Mormon and gay back in the 1970s. That was when we were shunned, ridiculed, bruised, battered, and discriminated against by nearly everyone, religious or otherwise. We hid in the closets because it hurt too much to come out. People who did come out were called perverts, child molesters, predators, queer, sick, you name it. For those of us who were Mormon, it was even worse. We were attracted to the same sex, yet Mormon doctrine stated we were supposed to get married only to a member of the opposite sex. It is a direct conflict between the two strongest, most significant desires in life.

When I was in college, I met a woman with whom I thought I'd spend the rest of my life. But after a couple of years, we broke up. That was when I had this feeling, an impression, to talk to my bishop. I had no idea who he was because I hadn't gone to church in years.

That bishop used the power of the priesthood in my behalf, just as the divine plan had been laid out. He met with me for almost three years as I struggled and faltered. Suicide was a very real threat. I feel blessed, or lucky, or both, not to be among the many who have already pulled the trigger. I wasn't suicidal because of the Church's unwavering stance on marriage, however. I hadn't been forced to believe, or guilted into it. I had not been brainwashed. My testimony came from the heart.

In time, my spiritual identity began to gain strength over my sexual identity. I was finally able to choose the right. But it was a troubling choice. I had no desire, whatsoever, to spend a lifetime with a man - much less an eternity. So that left me with celibacy. To this day, sacrificing same-sex relationships is the greatest sacrifice I have made.

Years ago, a friend said: "The sacrifice of a loved one for an attempt to live righteously cannot go unnoticed. The loss is real, the sadness is real, in a world where so few things are real." Now, the loss and pain are being publicly recognized by Church leaders. In a fireside for Latter-day Saints in California, Elder Quentin L. Cook said, "There are faithful temple-worthy members of the Church who struggle with this great challenge, often in silence, fear, and great pain. Our hearts go out to these good brothers and sisters even as we uphold the divine truths the Lord has revealed about marriage."

Back when I was struggling with same-sex attraction, I couldn't find any LDS resources that dealt specifically with the issue. I'd insist, "The Church doesn't understand. They don't even care enough to help." Finally I realized the Church I was critizing was not just "they", it was also "I". And perhaps "I" should quit complaining and start writing. So I did. The title of my book sums it up: Born That Way? A True Story of Overcoming Same-Sex Attraction. Few people were offering hope back then for people who wanted to overcome same-sex attraction. I felt compelled by the spirit to provide hope for others with struggles similar to mine.

The secular resources did more harm than good. Back then, the only claims you heard from the "experts" were: "Sexual attractions are a permanent part of who you are. They're indelible, unchangeable, and unavoidable. " Fortunately, the "experts" are now realizing that, just like other aspects of who we are, sexual attractions are influenced by genetics, environment, upbringing, experiences - all of it. Nature and nurture are no longer pitted against each other.

I've had the unique opportunity to witness the journey of many people who struggle with same-sex attractions. In 1990, I volunteered as a phone counselor - originally referred through Evergreen, an organization established to help Mormons who face this trial. Over the span of almost 20 years, I've seen some Latter-day Saints get married in the temple, and others work to remain celibate - either because they have not found a spouse yet, or because they have not developed attractions toward the opposite sex. I also have friends, who once had very strong testimonies, who tried desperately to bring their lives into accordance with gospel principles, but finally gave up. At least for now.

THIS IS SO IMPORTANT:
Some people, no matter what they do or how hard they try, will never find themselves attracted to the opposite sex, in this life. They deserve our utmost respect. So do those who identify as gay or straight or bisexual or none of the above. They all deserve our respect.

It's not difficult for me to understand how the body of the Church in California has become divided over this issue. I have felt divided, too. Our family lived in California in 2000, when the Defense of Marriage Act came up for vote the first time. My husband and I were sealed together for time and all eternity, and our children were born under the new and everlasting covenant. We, as an eternal family, were and are the direct beneficiaries of the Church's unwavering stance on marriage. What once created angst so severe I considered suicide has led me to a life I never thought possible. One in which I have been happily married - to a man - for 15 years.

However, I know all too well what it's like to be discriminated against. "Eliminating" someone else's rights seems wrong. And up until this past week, it seemed to go against my sense of fairness, democracy and justice as a citizen of the United States. It also seemed to run contrary to the core of my faith - the second greatest commandment - to love one another.

Despite my apprehensions in 2000, my husband and I acted in faith and supported Proposition 22 because the prophet asked us to. I hate to admit this, but it wasn't until this week that I was finally able to reconcile the opposing viewpoints I continued to debate with myself. I finally realized why the leaders of the Mormon Church have been taking such an active role in all this. It happened when I read a National Public Radio report entitled "When Gay Rights and Religious Liberties Clash". It says, "In recent years, some states have passed laws giving residents the right to same-sex unions in various forms. Gay couples may marry in Massachusetts and California. There are civil unions and domestic partnerships in Vermont, New Jersey, Connecticut, New Hampshire and Oregon."

I was astonished when I read: "So far, the religious groups are losing." They listed examples such as Catholic Charities in Massachusetts. They had to pull out of the adoption business because they refused to adopt to same-sex couples. Even individuals' religious rights are being revoked. A woman declined to photograph a same-sex couple's commitment ceremony, saying her Christian beliefs prevented her from sanctioning same-sex unions. She was found guilty of discrimination.

When I read that article, it was like a light bulb went on. More importantly, I also felt a spiritual confirmation that the prophet truly is prophetic. Here is the impression that came to me as I read:

It's not that the Mormon Church is trying to get into politics. It's that politics is trying to get into the Church. And not just our church. Any church or congregation or individual who believes that only a marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God.

I'm sorry I couldn't see what the prophet could see-until this week. I'm sorry I'm not sending this letter out till now. And I'm sorry for my apathy - for being "lukewarm". Why, just last week I thought it was only a matter of time before same-sex marriages became legal everywhere. How wrong I was.

Unfortunately, someone has to lose with Proposition 8. Somebody's right to something will be limited at the end of the day on Tuesday. I, for one, do not want it to be my right to worship as I please.

Sincerely,

Erin Eldridge

P.S. For those who would like to respond to this letter - whether in anger or frustration or support - I will do my best to respond to every email I receive. But please, be patient. All our kids are still at home and I work part time. Email riverwalk8@gmail.com

@idkwhy - I get sad every time I see how hard the religious right of Utah feels like they need to force their pious holier than than thou agenda on everyone else. This would be one of the greatest places to live in the country if not for the unhappy bigots who's opinions and agendas we have to constantly try and overcome. Coming form a place of such persecution for their flexible interpretations on marriage you would think there would be more tolerance for a piece of paper. Thats all it is. A piece of paper. Or are you people really dense enough to believe that if you ban them from getting married people will stop being gay?

Like I said. Sad.

@idkwhy - This is such a hot issue here in Utah. You would almost think it had something to do with us.

Or should i say this is such a hot issue with straight people. You would almost think it has something to do with us.

The institution of marriage is a joke. 60% of marriages end in divorce. Divorce is a much larger threat to the institution of marriage than gays are. This law in essence takes freedoms away from people and segregates them. I am not gay but I am an American and Americans should be strongly against any law that is created to take rights away from another person.

Why just end it with gays why not say black people can't get married? It is after all in origin a white institution isn't it? Just because it is more acceptable to hate certain groups doesn't make it any more fair to those groups that are being repressed.

With marriage comes equal rights. Yeah they can have a civil union and Rosa Parks could have sat in the back of the bus it's not like they weren't letting her ride the bus...right?

@Charles h - They actually showed that more white people supported proposition 8 and black people did not. I don't know why it should matter though.

@L C. - where does it ever end?

@L C. - Tonight I lost a lot of hope for American people by seeing Obama win but have gained a lot of hope for the California people as they vote yes for Proposition 8. Thanks to the people of California and for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and for God!

@L C. - So your view is the only view and that makes it discrimination?? Because I believe that a child should have both a man and woman raise them, because both a man and woman is needed in a childs life that makes me pro-discrimination?? Are you not understanding we need boundaries and we need to get this country back on what is right for our Country? Do you not read the paper, we are seriously sick in our country, and someone has to have a voice that says enough is enough. Men get back to the home and raise your children, women take your role next to him and lets get our country back to where you can feel safe again and for heavens sake quit thinking we should give into everyones request.

@L C. - LC says "Thanks California for making discrimination legal... "

Why don't you take a look at the discrimination in Massachesetts where gay marraige is legal. Look how badly the husband/wife/family is now being discriminated against! They can no longer teach their children that alternate sex styles are a sin. Even though their religious back grounds have trained how wrong it is for years, if they teach their children how wrong it is, they can be put in jail for "discrimination against gay people" and also prosecuted with the support of "hate crimes" as well.

Yes, you go tell a dad how evil he is for saying that gay life style is a sin. Do it while he is in jail for openning his mouth about the subject!

This isn't about rights for gay people. They have rights just like you and I. They don't need additional rights.

If you recieve tax benifits for being a husband wife team, consider that a reward for doing what is morally right. If you don't get it for being gay, well, need I say more?

Gay is not normal. Gay is wrong. Throw me in jail for declaring how wrong that type of lifestyle is. Throw me in jail for trying to protect society against the degenration of allowing such things to be entertained in society. Go ahead, because I'm not changing my mind from facts and truths that hold ample amounts of evidence.

Californians! I salute you who voted to support Prop 8!

@L C. - No one seems to consider that a form of discrimination? Heck sakes, L C, I've heard tell that in some states they prohibit marriage between a mother and her son, or brother to a sister. Some people might even call it discrimination when a father is prohibited from marrying his 8-year old daugher.

Personally, L C, I support traditional marriage which is defined a marriage between one man and one woman. Let's not dumb down marriage like we have the public education system.

@L C. - What is bad is the tide of vile evil spreading across the world. And what makes it worse, is the fact that so many people close their eyes to things, which although evil, they view as common place.
Sodom and Gomorrah had nothing on our modern world.

@skier354 - the court's decision was correct however. It is unconstitutional to discriminate. That is unless you amend it.

@csiny - May I add the negative to your comment?

You are correct 1 man 1 woman = marraige

1 man 1 man or 1 woman 1 woman = downfall of society, even to the destruction of this nation, the greatest nation in all the world.

Save marraige, respect it for what it is intended and we can save this great country. Call judgement of gay partnerships "discrimination" (and convince people it is) and we are in big troubles.

But hey, don't anyone take my word for it. Go read your history books and see what made other great nations fall. Why do we bother to print books if we can't learn from others mistakes?

@csiny - What about the FLDS?

Why dont we have a BAN on them?

@agleaves - Well, it's a very good thing your kids didn't grow up in the early days of the church then!

@agleaves - I agree totally.

So why don't we nullify civil marriage privileges and benefits and stop tethering religious marriage to the federal government?

I'd also like to encourage everyone concerned with the role of marriage in the foundation of our society to aggressively lobby for tougher divorce laws, including a complete repeal of them altogether. Think of the children, please.

Marriage is a sacred, ancient institution. Divorce runs contrary to this sacred, traditional institution that has "kept civilization more or less intact for thousands of years."

No more divorce after November 2009! Ever. The push for a statewide referendum begins here.

@Billy_Jack - I really wish the whole thing would go away.

I wish gay activists would stop filing lawsuits trying to change the definition of marriage.

I wish activist judges would stop presuming to make fundamental changes to society based on what they think should be, rather than strictly abiding the language AND intent of binding constitution and democratically enacted laws.

Gay activists have spent some $35 MILLION trying to get the word "marriage" in California. They have long enjoyed FULL legal equality via Cali's civil union law. But with all the problems you mention, they spent $35 MILLION over a word. ONE blasted word. WHY?

@Billy_Jack - I think legalizing gay marriage would be more devastating to the American people then losing jobs, homes and everything else. Some may ask why? Because it would bring the calamities of God upon us as foretold by ancient and modern day prophets. Tolerance and acceptance for these kind of things is not pleasing in the eyes of the Lord.

@Billy_Jack - Would someone please explain why it's so important that it be banned? I just don't understand how it could possibly affect someones heterosexual marriage. How could someone who is gay and married affect someone who is heterosexual and married in Utah?

It just seems well oh so illogical is all.

@dave o - that's awesome!!

@Scott N. - this is hardly an LDS thing. The people are voting and the people have spoken. We need to quit dividing us into religions , races, sexes and perverts. Lets stick with Democracy. (and when the perverts lose????.....quit whining!!!)


:)

@Scott N. - One thing remains the same here in good ole Utah tonight, the majority of the people within this state are scared, racist, close-minded and full of absolute hate. I am disgusted by the hatred that has been spewed on these message boards within the last few hours, it is unbelievable.

@Beatus - Dictators in black robes keep throwing out the laws.

Remember, libs only like democracy when it serves there purpose.

@Chief Mcloud - is when 2 dudes wanna marry 3 dudes and one of them is a quadraplegic, transvestite, jew! And they want the wedding performed bi two fat lesbians that are both Lds bishops!!!

The futures lookin good....



:)

@AGreatLifeNow - and you get to decide what is right? are you the ruling authority on what is right and wrong? it is a hate issue, any idiot can see that.

@AGreatLifeNow - Polygamy=strange marriage practice

Homosexuality=strange marriage practice

Not hate, it was just a political move by the LDS.

The real LDS rally behind the gay marriage issue is only because the LDS were/are in a bind over being connected to the FLDS and polygamy. Church authorities could not make a statement about polygamy to the contrary due to it being taught as an everlasting covenant by a founding key figure of mormonism, and it could not take a stand in favor of polygamy due to modern taboo.

My children play this game all the time to try to divert attention away from their own misgivings by finger pointing at a seemingly greater misgivings of their siblings.

You see, the LDS believe that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman, if they did not, then why would they fight so hard to keep "traditional marriage" between two people of the opposite sex? DUH!!

You cannot claim that your beliefs about marriage are founded on 1 man 1 woman, when your very founding fathers taught that marriage was between 1 man and multiple women.

@prine_ryder - If California passed a law that made Mormon Weddings illegal and out of state Mormon Weddings invalid in California?

Wouldnt that be hateful?