Suspects arrested in shooting of 7-year-old girl
Gunshots in a Salt Lake City neighborhood left a 7-year-old girl dead. One adult and three juveniles have been booked on first-degree homicide charges. July 7th, 2008 @ 5:00pm
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Hire a full time sniper that sits perched in a hidden area that can take these punks out at a distance and end the high crime in the area.
@Sniperhunger - i volunteer to be that sniper and i would do it for minimum wage to just buy me lunch every day and you have a deal
Wow what men these gang members are, why cant the police have a shoot to kill policy on them since they have no respect for life, property or anything!
of punks. Our gang is so tough, we shot and killed a 7 year old girl. We need to take these gangs and put them in a huge stadium and let them have a hay day with their guns and kill each other off.
@Shannon W. - the typical answer to all violence. LETS KILL MORE PEOPLE. Working real well for us in Iraq, NOT!
@CW - .... I feel one of the main reasons we are still in Iraq is that our soldiers are kept on such a short leash with their ROE's for fear of killing someone that MIGHT be innocent.
Take the leash off, use all resources available, realize there will be collateral damage and I feel pretty sure that the number of casualties will be less in the long run and our boys would be home in short order.
Take the leash off, use all resources available, realize there will be collateral damage and I feel pretty sure that the number of casualties will be less in the long run and our boys would be home in short order.
everyone is going to blast these gangbangers on this site today....but we know none of them are going to read what we have to say. Why is that you ask? Because if they had one brain cell between them they would be able to read and choose a different path in life then being in a gang.
Really, is it such a need to be in a gang? Life is rough yes, but why do you choose to pick a life where you know your only way out in life is prison or a grave?
There is not one gangbanger who deserves respect from anyone. They prey on the innocent and take lives of innocents like this 7 year old angel. I think the community as a whole needs to band together and say "enough!!!". We do NOT WANT YOU HERE!!!! Until we do these idiots will run the streets killing more of our children and families.
Really, is it such a need to be in a gang? Life is rough yes, but why do you choose to pick a life where you know your only way out in life is prison or a grave?
There is not one gangbanger who deserves respect from anyone. They prey on the innocent and take lives of innocents like this 7 year old angel. I think the community as a whole needs to band together and say "enough!!!". We do NOT WANT YOU HERE!!!! Until we do these idiots will run the streets killing more of our children and families.
@LostinSLC - The illegals that come here are the scum of mexico. You can say that these are "brave" people coming here for a better life all you want, but the fact is, is that these are the losers from mexico that are looking for the easy way out. Instead of having some integrity and being responsible for the people in their families, they come here to take advantage of benefits that some whacked out people in our government have decided they deserve over it's own American citizens.
They are the lowlifes that don't want to make ends meet in mexico. Why work there when our polititions have made it possible to come here, breed, get a check without working, get health care without paying, get schooling without paying, get food without paying, and then when they get old enough, they can collect social security from the same account that you and I have been forced into putting money into our whole lives. Even Racheal has to realize there is a problem with this.
If you want a true opinion just talk to a mexican family that played by the rules and came here legally.
If this doesn't bother you, you are either here illegally, you are using their slave labor, or are just too ignorant of your surroundings to care. That is completely your decision. Just don't get your panties bunched when other people do see what's going on around them and choose to speak out against it.
Fact, these people are federal criminals as soon as they set foot in this country.
I think this country already has more than enough criminals in it from our own citizens don't you?
I would like any of the illegal sympathizers to name 3 positive things that illegals bring here that we just can't live without.
Before you mention cheap wages, remember their cheap wages are what makes your wages lower...so I guess that wouldn't be positive now would it? Try another one....
They are the lowlifes that don't want to make ends meet in mexico. Why work there when our polititions have made it possible to come here, breed, get a check without working, get health care without paying, get schooling without paying, get food without paying, and then when they get old enough, they can collect social security from the same account that you and I have been forced into putting money into our whole lives. Even Racheal has to realize there is a problem with this.
If you want a true opinion just talk to a mexican family that played by the rules and came here legally.
If this doesn't bother you, you are either here illegally, you are using their slave labor, or are just too ignorant of your surroundings to care. That is completely your decision. Just don't get your panties bunched when other people do see what's going on around them and choose to speak out against it.
Fact, these people are federal criminals as soon as they set foot in this country.
I think this country already has more than enough criminals in it from our own citizens don't you?
I would like any of the illegal sympathizers to name 3 positive things that illegals bring here that we just can't live without.
Before you mention cheap wages, remember their cheap wages are what makes your wages lower...so I guess that wouldn't be positive now would it? Try another one....
@Troy W. - Troy, you have no idea what you are talking about.
You're also one of those guys that talk out of both sides of your mouth. If ALL Mexicans who come here are losers, and aren't coming here for the sake of family, then HOW is it that BILLIONS of dollars are wired to Mexico every year? (Hint: It isn't taxpayer money.)
People WITHOUT Social Security numbers CAN'T collect social security.
There are few Mexican families that played by the rules. In fact, more than half of those given a green card were at some point "illegal". More than half of the 1 million legal immigrants were here illegally.
You're uneducated about the real issues surrounding immigration.
You're also one of those guys that talk out of both sides of your mouth. If ALL Mexicans who come here are losers, and aren't coming here for the sake of family, then HOW is it that BILLIONS of dollars are wired to Mexico every year? (Hint: It isn't taxpayer money.)
People WITHOUT Social Security numbers CAN'T collect social security.
There are few Mexican families that played by the rules. In fact, more than half of those given a green card were at some point "illegal". More than half of the 1 million legal immigrants were here illegally.
You're uneducated about the real issues surrounding immigration.
of mankind! What goes through someone's head when they join a gang! What kind of life is that? It's all they do is hurt others and break laws. Once these people are caught I hope they are all put away for good! Let them shoot each other in prison.
Like Mike said, they have no respect for life, property, or anything! So we should anyone have any respect for them!
I hope the community can pull together and get this little girl the justice she deserves and get these losers off the street!
Like Mike said, they have no respect for life, property, or anything! So we should anyone have any respect for them!
I hope the community can pull together and get this little girl the justice she deserves and get these losers off the street!
that is what gang bangers say to justify the shooting of a child and THAT IS CRAP. A baby playing on a sidewalk or her yard is in the RIGHT PLACE DOING WHAT BEAUTIFUL BABIES DO. Idiots driving around shooting other idiot gang bangers ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE DOING THE WRONG THING. God take this beautiful 7 yr old girl to heaven and make her your newest angel so she may look over her family and help them by visiting them in their dreams, so they will know she is in heaven and is with GOD.
I am to lazy to learn to read or write so I could never become a productive member of society. I sell and take drugs and I am so cool.... I think it has gone to far Utah is gonna turn out like L.A. unless the people get involved and put there foot down.
how tough are you when you "drive by" someones house, shoot out of your window, then drive off before anyone can do anything. thats not toughness, thats cowardice! i guess these little sissy gangbangers nowadays are scared to get beat up so they dont fight, they just drive and shoot little kids. i hope they REALLY punish these misfits, they deserve the worst!!!
@knappronco - OR..were the people inside just as guilty as the murderers, and support gang activities?
We have to clean it ALL up (and not just blame illegal immigration).
Start charging parents for neglecting their kids. A child that's properly raised, isn't going to be in a gang. IF your child starts ganglike associations, MOVE! Take away their cellphones, etc. Kids do not need those things, and that's what they're using to create their drug deals.
We have to clean it ALL up (and not just blame illegal immigration).
Start charging parents for neglecting their kids. A child that's properly raised, isn't going to be in a gang. IF your child starts ganglike associations, MOVE! Take away their cellphones, etc. Kids do not need those things, and that's what they're using to create their drug deals.
@Layton Mom - I find your comments enlightening. My wife teaches children from hispanic (some are likely illegal), white, black, polynesian and asian households. Which kids are the biggest problems? The kids that are most neglected, which is almost without exception the white kids. The hispanic and polynesian kids are sometimes a problem too, but most are the better behaved and have families that support them. I find it ironic that so many people support family value, but want to deport hispanic families who support those values to a greater degree than the white trash I see so often. Maybe it's just my little island in the valley, but I don't think so. I have no statistics, just personal experience.
@Ezfisher - My mexican neighbors let their little kids roam around the neighborhood all day and night. Their littlest girl is still in diapers and wears the same one all day. To top it off they come to my house looking for food ALL THE TIME.
@cupowar - my white neighbor's child roams the neighborhood all day and night..so much so that her parents call ME (and I live a couple of blocks away) asking if I'd seen her (she's 7). To top it off, the little girl asks me (as late as 10pm) if she can eat dinner at my place because all she got to eat was a cheese stick. There are times where she doesn't do homework for a week at a time, so she's in the house all weekend trying to do it..her mom's asked me how I get my children to keep up with their homework and how I keep the house so clean..Now - stop generalizing...
@cupowar - Unless you have analized data from like a hundred differnt families that you've personally seen do these things you really need to stop lumping all Hispanics into one big generalized bunch of misfits. By the way, how do you KNOW that this kids diaper has not been changed all day? Stop assuming that ALL Hispanics neglect their kids cause you have one stupid set of neighbors, or I can assume you are stalking a little girl.
@cupowar - If that is the case then call DFS what the heck are you waiting for? If the children are not being taken care and it sounds like they are not do something about it don't just tell the world about it. If you have proof that is grounds to arrest them for abuse .
@Ezfisher - And her experience is the opposite. So much for judging the world based on one classroom.
@Ezfisher - who are you replying to??? cuz i said nothing about illegals or hispanics, or anything like that. if you want to know the truth...the reason the little trashy white kids are such punks, is so they can be accepted by all the little brown kids. cuz in the scenario your describing im sure the white kids are the minority- its also the lifestyle you choose to bring your kids up in. if you let 'em do what they want...they will. if you dont teach them right and wrong, they wont think its important. we all need to make a stand "it takes a community to raise a kid" if i see your little kid doin somethin their not supposed to, your damn right im gonna say something to them...if they keep on it, i will walk them home and make it your problem. we all should be a part of the community, not just when it overflows into your yard! violence is not the answer. this is not white on brown or vice-versa this is pure uneducated, loser had noone to look up to, hey my dad can beat up your dad stupid violence! and a little girl died before her 8th birthday because of it.
When I first heard about this this morning, I cried. It seems as though things have gotten worse since I moved here 3 years ago as far as the gang situation goes. I've witnessed first hand how far gangs will go when the community turns a blind eye, and how difficult it is to get a handle on 'em once it's gotten too out of control.
Until the community and the PD of SLC and Utah in general wake up and start putting their foot down to this sort of crap, it will only get worse.
Until the community and the PD of SLC and Utah in general wake up and start putting their foot down to this sort of crap, it will only get worse.
@Rachael C. - Rachael,
You are right. Gang activity does seem to have gotten a lot worse in the last few years. And it is beyond tragic when gang violence victimizes such innocent bystanders.
The community must stop turning a blind eye to gang activity. AND to those who create and foster it.
Gang activity and other violent and property crimes have grown in Utah EXACTLY as more and more illegal aliens have chosen to settle here. As Arizona and other States crack down on illegal aliens Utah, by comparison, looks more and more friendly.
And those of you so opposed to enforcing our immigration laws, to local law-enforcement helping with immigration enforcement, and the deportation of illegal aliens who come to the attention of law enforcement are those who have turned the most blind eye to this problem.
Every time you proclaim that illegal aliens are not the only members of gangs you ignore the relative percentages and the ability to cripple many gangs without having to prove ANY crime beyond immigration violations. Al Capone went to jail on tax evasion rather than any of the really serious crimes he committed. But he did go to jail.
So too, rather than waiting until some punks kill a little girl, if we'd deport every illegal alien, suspected gang member the first time the police have any reason to question them, there would be a lot fewer violent crimes.
We have no choice but to deal with our own, home-grown scum. We have to afford them constitutional rights. But there is no reason to deal with the criminal element from the rest of the world.
WAKE up and put YOUR foot down and stop making excuses for illegal aliens.
You are right. Gang activity does seem to have gotten a lot worse in the last few years. And it is beyond tragic when gang violence victimizes such innocent bystanders.
The community must stop turning a blind eye to gang activity. AND to those who create and foster it.
Gang activity and other violent and property crimes have grown in Utah EXACTLY as more and more illegal aliens have chosen to settle here. As Arizona and other States crack down on illegal aliens Utah, by comparison, looks more and more friendly.
And those of you so opposed to enforcing our immigration laws, to local law-enforcement helping with immigration enforcement, and the deportation of illegal aliens who come to the attention of law enforcement are those who have turned the most blind eye to this problem.
Every time you proclaim that illegal aliens are not the only members of gangs you ignore the relative percentages and the ability to cripple many gangs without having to prove ANY crime beyond immigration violations. Al Capone went to jail on tax evasion rather than any of the really serious crimes he committed. But he did go to jail.
So too, rather than waiting until some punks kill a little girl, if we'd deport every illegal alien, suspected gang member the first time the police have any reason to question them, there would be a lot fewer violent crimes.
We have no choice but to deal with our own, home-grown scum. We have to afford them constitutional rights. But there is no reason to deal with the criminal element from the rest of the world.
WAKE up and put YOUR foot down and stop making excuses for illegal aliens.
@Charles h - First of all..what would you say if the perps in this case are actually legal residents here? All we know is that they may have been hispanic...I'm aware of the illegal immigration issue; however, there are other - more effective ways in getting a handle on gang violence than deporting illegal immigrants...I'm not turning a blind eye - I'm just being realistic here. I guess it's Utah's turn to figure out how to curb gang violence. I assure you - you're going about it in the wrong way...
Sure, deal with deportation while at the same time do all of the other stuff I suggested in a couple of my other posts...
Sure, deal with deportation while at the same time do all of the other stuff I suggested in a couple of my other posts...
@Rachael C. - Talking with Chuck is like spitting into the wind.
Here are some basic Chuck-isms:
Hispanic = Illegal Alien
Criminals = Hispanic
Violent Crime is committed by Hispanic, Illegal Alien, Criminals.
There are no white gangs. There are no Asian gangs. Anytime a crime is committed, Chuck thinks its time to bang his immigration drum...
Here are some basic Chuck-isms:
Hispanic = Illegal Alien
Criminals = Hispanic
Violent Crime is committed by Hispanic, Illegal Alien, Criminals.
There are no white gangs. There are no Asian gangs. Anytime a crime is committed, Chuck thinks its time to bang his immigration drum...
@Cpsmurf - it's like talking to a brick wall. But, if he thinks that simply deporting illegal aliens will curb the gang problem - he and many others on here are in for a very rude awakening...
@Rachael C. - Chuck doesn't care about gangs.
You will not find him protesting so vehemently about white gang crime.
He simply wants all Hispanics to leave the country.
You will not find him protesting so vehemently about white gang crime.
He simply wants all Hispanics to leave the country.
@Cpsmurf - Many hispanics are good, hardworking, honest people who make a real contribution to this nation.
However, the hispanic culture, as manifests in Mexico and other 3rd world cess pits, and in too many hispanic neighborhoods is a failure that fosters and accepts corruption, violence, illegitimacy and a host of other problems. It is a failed culture and any who cling to it will fail to have any real success in life.
Name 5 great Mexican, Honduran, other latin american composers. Name 5 great Mexican artists, or playwrights. What percentage of medical procedures are invented in Mexico? What percentage of patents are issued to those living in Latin America?
Hispanic individuals are just that, individuals. And they should be judged just as any other individual is: on their individual merits.
But the hispanic culture as is being imposed on us by massive numbers of illiterate illegal aliens is highly destructive.
Now, go listen to your latin "music" with your "life partner" and let the adults carry on conversations that do not involve personal insult as the first, last, and only retort. I disagree with Rachael on almost everything. But she, at least, seems capable of presenting her case without resorting to insults right out the gate or accusing everyone who disagrees with her of racism.
However, the hispanic culture, as manifests in Mexico and other 3rd world cess pits, and in too many hispanic neighborhoods is a failure that fosters and accepts corruption, violence, illegitimacy and a host of other problems. It is a failed culture and any who cling to it will fail to have any real success in life.
Name 5 great Mexican, Honduran, other latin american composers. Name 5 great Mexican artists, or playwrights. What percentage of medical procedures are invented in Mexico? What percentage of patents are issued to those living in Latin America?
Hispanic individuals are just that, individuals. And they should be judged just as any other individual is: on their individual merits.
But the hispanic culture as is being imposed on us by massive numbers of illiterate illegal aliens is highly destructive.
Now, go listen to your latin "music" with your "life partner" and let the adults carry on conversations that do not involve personal insult as the first, last, and only retort. I disagree with Rachael on almost everything. But she, at least, seems capable of presenting her case without resorting to insults right out the gate or accusing everyone who disagrees with her of racism.
@Charles h - "Many hispanics are good, hardworking, honest people who make a real contribution to this nation."
Really? Which ones? The ones here legally or the ones here illegally?
"However, the hispanic culture, as manifests in Mexico and other 3rd world cess pits, and in too many hispanic neighborhoods is a failure that fosters and accepts corruption, violence, illegitimacy and a host of other problems. It is a failed culture and any who cling to it will fail to have any real success in life."
There it is. Spelled out. You ARE a bigot. Tell us, Chuck, are you opposed to members of this "failed culture" from LEGALLY coming to the United States?
Really? Which ones? The ones here legally or the ones here illegally?
"However, the hispanic culture, as manifests in Mexico and other 3rd world cess pits, and in too many hispanic neighborhoods is a failure that fosters and accepts corruption, violence, illegitimacy and a host of other problems. It is a failed culture and any who cling to it will fail to have any real success in life."
There it is. Spelled out. You ARE a bigot. Tell us, Chuck, are you opposed to members of this "failed culture" from LEGALLY coming to the United States?
@Cpsmurf - you are the epitome of what is wrong with liberalism. Now granted I lean much more in Charles direction than yours, but PLEASE take a second and read through the posts in this thread. Charles readily produces sources and statistics where as you do little other than jab and accuse him as the the unbending evil conservative. Talk about brick walls and air born spit.
@SoJoBoy - I have come up with suggestions on how to curb gang violence..do you have any of your own?
@Rachael C. - my ideas are along the lines of the Arizona Sheriff Arpaio which I am sure you would disagree with. We have the whole west desert where a strong, cheap compound could be built.
I personally don't know the statistics of Joe Arpaio's area, I will have to check them out. But my guess is that his gang stats are equal to or better than your sugar coated solutions from the rainbow state. If not I will concede the fact.
I personally don't know the statistics of Joe Arpaio's area, I will have to check them out. But my guess is that his gang stats are equal to or better than your sugar coated solutions from the rainbow state. If not I will concede the fact.
@Rachael C. - After Googling Arpaio and gang all I got was his chain gang related articles and nothing specifically about gang related statistics. While it is clear that he is controversial and really ticks off the ACLU type, his methods seem to work and he continues to be re-elected. I will have to continue to check into the gang related stats and will be glad to share them either way.
@SoJoBoy - Chuck can rarely produce unbiased sources and statistics.
He claims that the Hispanic gangs here in Utah are primarily from Mexico and illegal aliens. I cited a source from the Salt Lake County Sheriff Offices that disputes that claim.
Let's see what Chuck said in response to my post:
(1) Called the Hispanic culture as "failed".
(2) Makes a derogatory comment about Latin music.
(3) Calls me a homosexual.
(4) Calls me a child.
He doesn't refute that he cares about gangs.
He doesn't refute that he takes the same stand against white gangs.
He doesn't deny that he wants Hispanics to leave the country.
He claims that the Hispanic gangs here in Utah are primarily from Mexico and illegal aliens. I cited a source from the Salt Lake County Sheriff Offices that disputes that claim.
Let's see what Chuck said in response to my post:
(1) Called the Hispanic culture as "failed".
(2) Makes a derogatory comment about Latin music.
(3) Calls me a homosexual.
(4) Calls me a child.
He doesn't refute that he cares about gangs.
He doesn't refute that he takes the same stand against white gangs.
He doesn't deny that he wants Hispanics to leave the country.
@Cpsmurf - Never mind Chuck.
I like Hispanic culture. Especially Mole Poblano.
I don't like Latin music, unless it's being played by Carlos Santana. I've yet to meet a Hispanic who likes the music I like. Unlike YOU, I don't mind.
I don't care that you're a homosexual. Knock yourself out.
I don't care how old you are, as long as you're dating boys your own age.
I want gang-bangers to be shot on sight.
I want ALL gang-bangers to be shot on sight, regardless of their color.
I want ILLEGAL Hispanics, along with all other people in the U.S. illegally, rounded up and deported.
I want all employers caught hiring undocumented workers to be fined and imprisoned.
I want as many immigrants as we can employ, and who can identify themselves, and who don't have criminal records, to be welcomed into this country without regard for the color of their skin or their nation of origin. (That means we let in some WHITE people too. I know that makes me a "racist." Deal with it.)
Got a problem with any of that?
I like Hispanic culture. Especially Mole Poblano.
I don't like Latin music, unless it's being played by Carlos Santana. I've yet to meet a Hispanic who likes the music I like. Unlike YOU, I don't mind.
I don't care that you're a homosexual. Knock yourself out.
I don't care how old you are, as long as you're dating boys your own age.
I want gang-bangers to be shot on sight.
I want ALL gang-bangers to be shot on sight, regardless of their color.
I want ILLEGAL Hispanics, along with all other people in the U.S. illegally, rounded up and deported.
I want all employers caught hiring undocumented workers to be fined and imprisoned.
I want as many immigrants as we can employ, and who can identify themselves, and who don't have criminal records, to be welcomed into this country without regard for the color of their skin or their nation of origin. (That means we let in some WHITE people too. I know that makes me a "racist." Deal with it.)
Got a problem with any of that?
@Cpsmurf - First lets look at your source. Maybe some of the English majors can correct me if I am wrong, but in an article like the one you site, you start off with a general comment. Then you list groups or subjects in the order of relevance to the topic. Lets see, top of that list would be, "Utah Hispanic Gangs". There is nothing in the article anywhere that addresses their citizenship status.
"(1) Called the Hispanic culture as "failed"."
I guess that depends on where you draw the line as to what is culture and what is not. There are many aspects of the culture that I enjoy, and there are some I do not. Evidently there are some aspects that are failed and causing many to try to escape. The problem appears to be that they are dragging a lot of failed aspects of the culture along with them. Just like so many people who say they come here to get there kids out of the gangs and then it ends up there kids just start or join a gang here. Hispanic or not.
"(2) Makes a derogatory comment about Latin music."
So he indicates that he does not like Latin music. So what?
"(3) Calls me a homosexual."
Forgive my naivety, does "life partner" necessarily mean your same sex partner?
"(4) Calls me a child."
After at least two posts where you mockingly call him "Chuck", and continue to do so, you are showing an extreme lack of maturity. You might as well stick your thumbs in your ears, wiggle you fingers and while pulling a funny face say "neener neener neener".
"He doesn't refute that he cares about gangs.
He doesn't refute that he takes the same stand against white gangs."
Either you are mis-stating these two points or I am mis-interpreting them. I do not see your complaint.
"He doesn't deny that he wants Hispanics to leave the country."
I could not find this. I think you are taking great liberty on this one. Throw in an "illegal" in there and I think you would be correct to a point. I don't think he is talking about just Hispanics in that regard.
I think to some degree you can claim victory. I think you have obnoxiously goaded Charles into making his first statement of revenge to your imbecilic posts.
"(1) Called the Hispanic culture as "failed"."
I guess that depends on where you draw the line as to what is culture and what is not. There are many aspects of the culture that I enjoy, and there are some I do not. Evidently there are some aspects that are failed and causing many to try to escape. The problem appears to be that they are dragging a lot of failed aspects of the culture along with them. Just like so many people who say they come here to get there kids out of the gangs and then it ends up there kids just start or join a gang here. Hispanic or not.
"(2) Makes a derogatory comment about Latin music."
So he indicates that he does not like Latin music. So what?
"(3) Calls me a homosexual."
Forgive my naivety, does "life partner" necessarily mean your same sex partner?
"(4) Calls me a child."
After at least two posts where you mockingly call him "Chuck", and continue to do so, you are showing an extreme lack of maturity. You might as well stick your thumbs in your ears, wiggle you fingers and while pulling a funny face say "neener neener neener".
"He doesn't refute that he cares about gangs.
He doesn't refute that he takes the same stand against white gangs."
Either you are mis-stating these two points or I am mis-interpreting them. I do not see your complaint.
"He doesn't deny that he wants Hispanics to leave the country."
I could not find this. I think you are taking great liberty on this one. Throw in an "illegal" in there and I think you would be correct to a point. I don't think he is talking about just Hispanics in that regard.
I think to some degree you can claim victory. I think you have obnoxiously goaded Charles into making his first statement of revenge to your imbecilic posts.
@Rachael C. - ...but it IS increasingly a drug-dependent culture.
I'm to the point where I believe that decriminalizing drugs will do more for society, than our efforts to keep them underground.
Remember WEST SIDE STORY? Back in the late 1950s/early 1960s, gang activity in big cities became glamorized as entertainment.
I'm to the point where I believe that decriminalizing drugs will do more for society, than our efforts to keep them underground.
Remember WEST SIDE STORY? Back in the late 1950s/early 1960s, gang activity in big cities became glamorized as entertainment.
@Layton Mom - no what we should do is take the taiwan approach to drugs( according to a DEA agent in my class) when drugs are found being made they kill all on the site and then turn and go after the families of these drugys when your family will suffer and you will die most people will choose to do something else with their lives.
@Rachael C. - It's sad that a family which supposedly came here for a better life (escaping the violence and corruption in Mexico) would have their child murdered here. However, if they are really interested in separating themselves from the violence of their homeland, the Hispanic community needs to step up and start identifying the criminals living within that community.
From what I've seen they are very uncooperative when given the opportunity to provide information to police, even with the sanctuary policies in place. The worst examples are the parents in denial about the behavior of their little "Juanito", who would never do anything wrong.
The South Salt Lake police chief appeared multiple times before various legislative committees railing against a law that would require him to check the legal status of people arrested and which would authorized his officers to receive ICE training to help them do their jobs.
He seems to want to coddle all illegals. If he would create a zero-tolerance policy and actively go after illegal aliens who are committing crimes, using ICE to detain them beyond the typical bail-out period, it could start to reduce the crime rates.
From what I've seen they are very uncooperative when given the opportunity to provide information to police, even with the sanctuary policies in place. The worst examples are the parents in denial about the behavior of their little "Juanito", who would never do anything wrong.
The South Salt Lake police chief appeared multiple times before various legislative committees railing against a law that would require him to check the legal status of people arrested and which would authorized his officers to receive ICE training to help them do their jobs.
He seems to want to coddle all illegals. If he would create a zero-tolerance policy and actively go after illegal aliens who are committing crimes, using ICE to detain them beyond the typical bail-out period, it could start to reduce the crime rates.
@Lee D. - it's not just illegals or hispanics who are afraid to cooperate with police with gang investigations...if you think a "sanctuary policy" would stop retaliations, you are truly in la-la land. I would like to know those policies anyway. Unless a police officer is posted right in front of someone's door and following them around EVERYWHERE they go 24/7, those people that speak are at high risk. Police will tell you that you are safe as a ploy to get you to speak. Most citizens who have lived in bad areas know that the police will lie to you in a second and they simply don't want their children to be the next casualty...it goes way deeper than race...
@Rachael C. - troll away, but until people realize the truth, the situation will only get worse...
@Rachael C. - You are like the X-Files, the truth is out there and you are the only one who knows what the truth is
@Rachael C. - Personally, I think sanctuary policy is a dumb idea. Policy makers are deluding themselves that they can make friends with criminals in order to prevent crime. If investigators encounter other criminals as part of their interviews, they should have leeway to pursue them as well. Instead, they back off if they suspect they might be illegals.
Even San Francisco is being forced to re-think its sanctuary policies after being caught trying to smuggle young illegal alien crack dealers home privately (to avoid ICE detection/deportation) or shuttling them to insecure safe houses where they promptly escaped.
Even San Francisco is being forced to re-think its sanctuary policies after being caught trying to smuggle young illegal alien crack dealers home privately (to avoid ICE detection/deportation) or shuttling them to insecure safe houses where they promptly escaped.
@Rachael C. - .....but make sure you do it in a politically-correct way so that you don't offend anybody. That's working great in Los Angeles.
@mickeyqbitsko - gangs have plagued the city of 'Angels' for decades because they don't do crap about it...this has nothing to do with "political correctness"..it has to do with being realistic. In the 80's and 90's, California decided to get "tough" on crime - they built a TON of prisons, yet it has been PROVEN over the years that incarceration alone is not effective and does NOTHING to prevent perps from committing crimes. Those incarcerated become even harder and more violent gang members while inside...a large number of them reoffend...no counseling, no rehabilitation, no resources are given to them in order to survive on the outside without the gang...so they go back to the only life they know inside AND outside the walls..prisons are DOUBLE their holding capacity.
So, what are you guys's solutions to the real problem here? Illegal immigration is not it - sure, deport those gang members that are here illegally. I know families that have 3-4 generations of gang members..they are ALL legal citizens of America...what do we do with them? How will deporting illegals stop them from committing the next drive-by that kills an innocent child? You guys are not actually focused on gang prevention here, but illegal immigration - TWO TOTALLY SEPERATE ISSUES.
So, what are you guys's solutions to the real problem here? Illegal immigration is not it - sure, deport those gang members that are here illegally. I know families that have 3-4 generations of gang members..they are ALL legal citizens of America...what do we do with them? How will deporting illegals stop them from committing the next drive-by that kills an innocent child? You guys are not actually focused on gang prevention here, but illegal immigration - TWO TOTALLY SEPERATE ISSUES.
the parents of these gang members know what there children are up to. Unless the mommies what somthing to change it never will
This situation will only get worse unless we hold our elected "representatives" accountable for getting ride of all these scumbags who are invading us from our southern border. I lived in LA for 11 years and I saw firsthand how nice neighborhoods turn into gang infested crack houses that are unfit to raise a family in. The illegals and gangbangers take over each neighborhoodd one by one until it all becomes like east LA, and that's how they orchestrate their "reconquista" and drive everyone else away.
The time is now to stand up and fight against this scourge before our state and our country becomes tijuana. Join at www.numbersusa.com and join the growing voice of the people to put a stop to this hostile invasion.
The time is now to stand up and fight against this scourge before our state and our country becomes tijuana. Join at www.numbersusa.com and join the growing voice of the people to put a stop to this hostile invasion.
@Rich H. - I lived in northern california for the majority of my life..the majority of gang members up there are legal citizens...so, how to we solve that?
San Jose PD and the community took a proactive approach..community centers started poppin up in the middle of gang infested neighborhoods...guys (and girls) who were on probation or parole started getting violated if they were caught hanging out with other gang members...they started getting hard time in jail when they were used to getting slapped on the wrist - the gang task force learned the ins and outs of the gangs, their lingo, etc...began a reportoire with the gang members and those at-risk youth as well...it took a lot of time, money, and patience...but eventually, it got better and better and better - it's not perfect, but it's a heck of a lot better and safer than it was.
There are PLENTY of gang members in LA and everywhere else that are citizens of this country...just ask all of those bloods and crips and chicanos....
San Jose PD and the community took a proactive approach..community centers started poppin up in the middle of gang infested neighborhoods...guys (and girls) who were on probation or parole started getting violated if they were caught hanging out with other gang members...they started getting hard time in jail when they were used to getting slapped on the wrist - the gang task force learned the ins and outs of the gangs, their lingo, etc...began a reportoire with the gang members and those at-risk youth as well...it took a lot of time, money, and patience...but eventually, it got better and better and better - it's not perfect, but it's a heck of a lot better and safer than it was.
There are PLENTY of gang members in LA and everywhere else that are citizens of this country...just ask all of those bloods and crips and chicanos....
@Rachael C. - They're legal citizens because of past amnesties. Seems to make sense that amnesty now will lead to much more gang activity in the future.
@Rachael C. - Where in Northern California do you come from?
@Cowgirl up - Gang Bangers looser who are nothing without each other. Glendale has allot of looooosers who need each other to feel important and protected. Low life scums of the earth feel they need to be in numbers to kill an innocent life. You are all pathetic!!!!
My hearts and prayers go out to this childs family!
My hearts and prayers go out to this childs family!
@Rachael C. - Having been in a gang on the east coast I can give you the answer and that is prosecute all gang members using the same laws we had for the Mafia. What's stopping us from doing that? Since 9/11 our focus (and money) has changed to terrorism. Plus, many of our children are involved in gangs and we like to associate them with innocence. The fact is gangs are no different than terrorists and function in the same way (just as drug cartels did). But while the title gang member and illegal may be used for the one individual they do not apply to all. Most illegals are only responsible for the growing identity theft. Gang members are more often responsible for violence and drug trade. Which of those two are good for our society? If a person is guilty of both, should we turn a blind eye so we can be politically correct? The fact is there are problems that we need to address and it is the greatest strain on our economy that needs to be focused on first so we can afford to survive beyond that.
@Rachael C. - If 10% of gang-bangers are illegals, then getting rid of illegals will eliminate 10% of the gang-bangers.
If 20% of violent crime in inner cities is committed by illegals, then getting rid of illegals will eliminate 20% of violent crime.
Or do you believe that crime seeks some sort of magical level? Do you believe that, if we eliminated illegal immigration, the citizens would be compelled by supernatural forces to make up the difference?
Of COURSE citizens commit crimes. Always have, always will. And we'll have to deal with them, just as we always have. But why should we have to deal with other countries criminals?
Illegal aliens are criminals, by definition. They should be dealt with as such. Why do you want to perpetuate a system that keeps brown-skinned people permanently stuck in the Untouchable class? Shouldn't they get a fair shake at the American Dream? LEGAL immigrants get that. Illegals have to fly under the radar.
Sounds like you're afraid of having to scrub your own toilets.
If 20% of violent crime in inner cities is committed by illegals, then getting rid of illegals will eliminate 20% of violent crime.
Or do you believe that crime seeks some sort of magical level? Do you believe that, if we eliminated illegal immigration, the citizens would be compelled by supernatural forces to make up the difference?
Of COURSE citizens commit crimes. Always have, always will. And we'll have to deal with them, just as we always have. But why should we have to deal with other countries criminals?
Illegal aliens are criminals, by definition. They should be dealt with as such. Why do you want to perpetuate a system that keeps brown-skinned people permanently stuck in the Untouchable class? Shouldn't they get a fair shake at the American Dream? LEGAL immigrants get that. Illegals have to fly under the radar.
Sounds like you're afraid of having to scrub your own toilets.
@Rachael C. - Kill them all let God sort them out. I say if you live under any other "flag" other then the American Flag (and your in this country) you should be shot on site. they need to lable these little ba5t@rd5 as terrorist not gangs and then turn the U.S armed forces on them. problem solved
Stories like this just break my heart. How horrible to have a child jerked away from a family in such a tragic violent way. Is it just me or does anyone else just not grasp the sense of this kind of violence. This poor little girl never even realized that this would be the last 4th of July she would ever celebrate. These low life gangbangers will not even care about the innocent people who are harmed by their senseless violence. The sad thing is the only thing they care about now is the fact they were caught and will now lose their freedom.
We should have a special law for crimes that fall into this type of category. If these people know that they could face the death sentence maybe they will think twice before driving down the street spraying innocent people's neighborhood's with bullets.
Also isn't it odd that the police were there earlier responding to threats against these people? Couldn't they have posted a police car there to possibly deter this crime? Would you let your child play outside in the area gangbangers were just threatening each other? So many questions come to mind when something like this happens.
Remember, It takes a whole community to raise a child! Keep your children close and don't be afraid to show them too much love.
We should have a special law for crimes that fall into this type of category. If these people know that they could face the death sentence maybe they will think twice before driving down the street spraying innocent people's neighborhood's with bullets.
Also isn't it odd that the police were there earlier responding to threats against these people? Couldn't they have posted a police car there to possibly deter this crime? Would you let your child play outside in the area gangbangers were just threatening each other? So many questions come to mind when something like this happens.
Remember, It takes a whole community to raise a child! Keep your children close and don't be afraid to show them too much love.
U PEOPLE ARE A BUNCH OF SMART [no swearing please] HATING ON MEXICANS BECAUSE THIS IS LIKE THE SPOT WERE ALL YOU LOWLIFES HATE ON PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY CAN SEE YOU OR KNOW WHO YOU ARE IF THEIR WAS A MEXICAN IN FRONT OF UR FACES I CAN GURANTEE YOU WONT SAY THAT BECAUSE YOU GUYS ARE A BUNCH OF SCARED LOWLIFES WHO THINK WE TAKE YOUR JOBS, WE DONT TAKE IT WE JUST DO IT BETTER AND THIS IS AMERICA IF YOU DONT WANT TO SEE US GO BACK WERE YOU GUYS CAME FROM IST A LITTLE PLACE CALL EUROPE
[Please don't shout with ALL CAPS.]
[Please don't shout with ALL CAPS.]
@Daniel L. - Did we wake up on the wrong side of the bed today Daniel?
Don't take what a couple of people are saying and say it is everyone. It is obvious you are only focusing on a few comments and just skimmed the rest.
I will say this, most of us think gangbangers are a waste of skin and if you hate us for that so be it. Show me anything good gangbangers do??? It doesn't matter their race...all of them can die for all we care.
Don't take what a couple of people are saying and say it is everyone. It is obvious you are only focusing on a few comments and just skimmed the rest.
I will say this, most of us think gangbangers are a waste of skin and if you hate us for that so be it. Show me anything good gangbangers do??? It doesn't matter their race...all of them can die for all we care.
@Daniel L. - It's hating the fact that illegal immigrants (most are from Mexico) are able to make it into American cities and cause all sorts of trouble.
The illegal immigrant that does the best is the one who simple gets to working and caring for his/her family and eventually becomes a legal immigrant. Rare, but it does happen.
The illegal immigrant that does the best is the one who simple gets to working and caring for his/her family and eventually becomes a legal immigrant. Rare, but it does happen.
@Daniel L. - Your right we wouldn't say it to their faces, they may just drive thru our neighborhood and spray our houses with bullets.
@Daniel L. - Hey Daniel, did it ever click inside you're sad little mind that the "scared lowlifes" you're referring to made America what it is today...without them you wouldn't be on here stating your opinions would you? I bet you would be the last in line to enlist and defend the country. If you think Mexico is so great....why don't you go back?? Hmm?
Also, who's really scared? These 4 pieces of [no swearing please] had to hide IN A CAR the whole time, with their guns, and then go hide from the police.
Also, who's really scared? These 4 pieces of [no swearing please] had to hide IN A CAR the whole time, with their guns, and then go hide from the police.
@Daniel L. - Yeah, these mexican gangbangers are real tough guys. It takes a lot of guts to shoot a little girl and speed off in an SUV.
@Daniel L. - You said, "we don't take your jobs we just do it better." hmmmm. what is it that you can do better, cleaning hotels? landscaping? construction? or making a burrito? Listen Daniel, don't tell AMERICANS that if we don't like it we can leave, excuse me this is our country and you can get the he!! out with that kinda attitude. And yes I would tell a hispanic that they need to get the he!! out if they are illegal right to thier face and then I would call my dear friend over to have thier arse deported. This is America and people who pay there taxes and give all they got to this country should have rights not people who jump over the border and steal our identies and get on the free welfare bandwagon, it's a joke.
@Daniel L. - I dont discriminate i hate everyone. So all of you people can go back to europe that includes you latino and white people.
@Daniel L. - ..... to string your words into meaningful sentences it easy to see why you were unable to get a job in your home country.
By-the-way, Daniel L, where in the world do you suppose Mexicans came from?
By-the-way, Daniel L, where in the world do you suppose Mexicans came from?
No guns=no gun related crime
@The Flying V - Criminals and gangbangers don't go out and get their CCW permit or attend gun safety courses. They don't register their firearms nor do they lock them in a gun safe or place a trigger lock on their weapons. Why is this? Because they break the law.....so when you say "No guns=no gun related crime" it makes people laugh because even if there were no guns in Utah....don't you think these people would go out of the state or country to get what they need?
Then what does the rest of the nation do to protect themselves against the criminal element? Throw harsh words?
Please please please.....think before you talk.
Then what does the rest of the nation do to protect themselves against the criminal element? Throw harsh words?
Please please please.....think before you talk.
@LostinSLC - We could do like england and start making guns and sharp pointy knives illegal. But then we would have to start using our imagination and start making illegal everything. Like baseball bats, chains,2x4's,any type of poison, cars,trucks, skateboards, gasoline, diesel, and propane. Then we would have to do it all over again with rope, whips, yarn, fishing line, shoe strings, etc. Then again as we got down to rocks, bricks, etc.
You cant ban everything that someone will uses to kill another person, you can only make the crime of killing another person too severe, make it so the very thought of doing it is too scary.
By removing guns, you only make the person that could protect themselves more vulnerable.
and if you managed to remove gun crime, what crime would replace it? Really what would be a better death? Gun shot or beat to death over a week with a nerf bat?
You cant ban everything that someone will uses to kill another person, you can only make the crime of killing another person too severe, make it so the very thought of doing it is too scary.
By removing guns, you only make the person that could protect themselves more vulnerable.
and if you managed to remove gun crime, what crime would replace it? Really what would be a better death? Gun shot or beat to death over a week with a nerf bat?
@The Flying V - Looks like you and the liberals in Washington D.C. and San Francisco lost. Best way to eliminate gun related crime, Flying V, is a zero tolerance policy on gun toting .............. criminals.
@The Flying V - saying the guns commited this crime is the same as sayng your computer made you sound like an idiot.
@The Flying V - There are no countries on earth with "no guns." But there are plenty with armed criminals and helpless citizens.
No gravity = I can fly.
No friction = I don't have to buy gas.
Fantasy is fun!
No gravity = I can fly.
No friction = I don't have to buy gas.
Fantasy is fun!
@The Flying V - To respond to that comment at this point is like beating a dead horse, but I'll be your Huckleberry.
No guns=increase in gun related violent crime
Don't believe me, look at the most violent cities in the US and you will find the strictest gun laws. Look at other times in which firearms were prohibited such as in Germany during the Nazi regime. We don't need to repeat history to make ignorant sheeple realize it is not a good idea to outlaw guns. Statistics would suggest the inverse is correct though. Encourage citizens to defend themselves and you will see a significant drop in crime.
No guns=increase in gun related violent crime
Don't believe me, look at the most violent cities in the US and you will find the strictest gun laws. Look at other times in which firearms were prohibited such as in Germany during the Nazi regime. We don't need to repeat history to make ignorant sheeple realize it is not a good idea to outlaw guns. Statistics would suggest the inverse is correct though. Encourage citizens to defend themselves and you will see a significant drop in crime.
@Dcnielsen - Don't forget Australia! They recently confiscated all guns from LAW-ABIDING citizens, and now they are mystified as to why their violent crime rate is up. WAY up in the larger cities.
My God white folks you have some damn nerve! Look who is responsible for destroying our ozone layer and good ol' planet earth! And who rapes more children than any other race in America? White people!
@Johnny lightening - Just don't talk. Every breath you take to say something so dumb is destroying the ozone layer...so just leave.
@Johnny lightening - Have you seen the rivers, towns, homes in mexico? Disgusting!
@Mike A. - Yes maybe there is allot of poverty in Mexico but for years it was those illegal aliens that kept fruits and other produces for allot of your ancestors etc. What does a killing of an innocent girl have to do with how they live. Is your house and yard the town you live in lily white or what? Do you walk on water with out any fault.
@Johnny lightening - Johnny lightening, that fact that you are on the earth ( a horrible mistake, I am sure) means you take part in the destroying the Ozone Layer too. Beauty Fades. Dumb is forever.
@Johnny lightening - Isn't Mexico still using R-12 refrigerant? And where did you get your white people statistics?
@Johnny lightening - You are a jackass! How stupid could a person be??? Have you ever taken time to watch what is going on in Rawanda? I'm sure that you haven't, go look it up if you want to see a rape problem. And about the ozone, China is the one who needs to be put in check before it's too late. And as far as being a jackass, that's still you......
@Johnny lightening - I looked in the mirror and I did not see the person you were talking about. Thanks for that exercise. Now look in the prisons and tell me what group is more responsible. Look in gangs and tell me what you see. Stop turning a blind eye simply because you looked in the mirror and saw those things.
95% of mexicans in utah are illegals and are crimnals for border jumping I am sorry for this family.... but your comments are disturbing 90% of utah crime is commited by illigal mexicans with the largest % being commited against white's or persons of color who are in this country legally you come here legal you come to adopt the culture as yours.. not to change it to what you just ran away from
@flyman - cite your sources please....
@Rachael C. - You are really getting on my nerves. I hope that the next batch of illegal gangbangers shoot your place up. I'll bet you will be singing a different tune real fast!
@Phil W. - nice comeback. fyi..I don't care what your views and opinions are, I would still never wish harm come upon your family either by legals or illegals...
you're not funny.
you're not funny.
@Rachael C. - I have to wonder are people disagreeing with Rachael or the never wish harm on Phil and his family?
I dont see a reason to troll her for requesting sources, the guy is quoting alot of statistics and statistics can be made to say anything.
I do have to agree with the "you come to adopt the culture as yours.. not to change it to what you just ran away from" If I immigrated to china, I would definitely learn the language there, as well as the culture. I see nothing wrong in requesting the same be done here.
I dont see a reason to troll her for requesting sources, the guy is quoting alot of statistics and statistics can be made to say anything.
I do have to agree with the "you come to adopt the culture as yours.. not to change it to what you just ran away from" If I immigrated to china, I would definitely learn the language there, as well as the culture. I see nothing wrong in requesting the same be done here.
Now I am not part of a gang but is religion not a gang? You have your leaders(the people that tell you how to live your life and what you can and can not do) You pay them 10% of the money you make (and dont even get protection like you would from the Mafia)you live there rules and and there standards and if anyone else is not part of that religion then they are banned from the "gang" unless you think that they are going to be one of the GREAT stories of conversion into the all holly land where there is one man that will watch over you and make sure you are happy and also have 300 wifes so you dont have to work. BLA BLA BLA BULL SHIz
@all4fun - working or doing something productive? Talk about blah, blah, blah. This story is about a little girl who got shot by a group of cowards and a community threatened by people illegal or not, who do not have any intention of being productive members of society.
Where's the discussion about that? When did religious people become a relevant part of this story?
Where's the discussion about that? When did religious people become a relevant part of this story?
Eventually things like this are going to continue to happen and everyone is going to go all vigilante . . . it won't be a good thing as far as the law is concerned, but the gangs will decrease. I love the movies Deathwish . . . . every one of them!!
No longer have a real scociety, this is sad, wrong and incomprehensible, what a tragety.
As sad as this story is, don't worry, the revenge plot is currently being laid out. The rival gang will hit the headlines shortly with a tragic loss of their own. The circle of gang deaths will perpetuate. Just as it is likely this shooting was some sort of retaliation to something else that this gang did.
I don't know how many young kids must die before idiot gang people learn that revenge doesn't work.
I don't know how many young kids must die before idiot gang people learn that revenge doesn't work.
@Jingleheimer Schmidt - I would not call the loss of one their own (gang member) a loss. A plus, if no innocents are killed.
At least since I can remember, since the Hi-fi shop murders. When I was in high school playing football playing against Ben Lomond it was usually a tough game because they had a good team, seems that someone would often get into a fight after the game though.
Not sure exactly why Ogden is that way but it is certainly the bad boy of Utah. West Valley is probably a close second although it's a recent newcomer that didn't have that reputation back in the early eighties when I lived there. As for Eagle Mountain it seems that mainly they have had a problem with corrupt officials, some nice homes over there though.
Not sure exactly why Ogden is that way but it is certainly the bad boy of Utah. West Valley is probably a close second although it's a recent newcomer that didn't have that reputation back in the early eighties when I lived there. As for Eagle Mountain it seems that mainly they have had a problem with corrupt officials, some nice homes over there though.
@Billy_Jack - Holy cow where did you get Ogden vs Ben Lomond all of this that rival has gone on for years. I believe and know for a fact that it was always the white kids that fought each other over the iron horse.The hi fi that was no where close to gang related crime. It was some airmen that were maybe on drugs. So you are far from the subject on what is going on here buddy
@Ria92 - Just pointing out that Ogden has been a rough area for a long time so perhaps you need to take the time to stop and think for a moment before you comment.
I've always been against owning guns, but I'm seriously considering buying a pistol because it's obvious the "government/police" are unable to protect my family even in Utah.
Any idiot could waltz into my home, blow us away, and slip back across the border leaving local law enforcement with another cold case.
Meanwhile, congress is too concerned with wars in far away lands and the "hispanic vote" to give a rats ....
The bottom line is, well....the bottom line. The economy and "money" is more important than safety and security. As long as tragic deaths are within a certain threshold or "acceptable limits" then they will claim "all is well".
Any idiot could waltz into my home, blow us away, and slip back across the border leaving local law enforcement with another cold case.
Meanwhile, congress is too concerned with wars in far away lands and the "hispanic vote" to give a rats ....
The bottom line is, well....the bottom line. The economy and "money" is more important than safety and security. As long as tragic deaths are within a certain threshold or "acceptable limits" then they will claim "all is well".
@Jingleheimer Schmidt - since when is the first letter of the alphabet a swear-word?
@Jingleheimer Schmidt - You usually have to combine it with[no swearing please]."
You're right about the police. That's not a knock on the police. Most of them WOULD defend you if they could. But the bad guys are not in the habit of scheduling their crimes in advance.
If you or yours are attacked, the only people qualified to defend the innocent are the ones who are THERE. That usually means the victim and the perpetrator.
I'm of the opinion that if we, as citizens, aren't willing to defend ourselves, we certainly have no right to expect total strangers to do so for $35K a year.
You're right about the police. That's not a knock on the police. Most of them WOULD defend you if they could. But the bad guys are not in the habit of scheduling their crimes in advance.
If you or yours are attacked, the only people qualified to defend the innocent are the ones who are THERE. That usually means the victim and the perpetrator.
I'm of the opinion that if we, as citizens, aren't willing to defend ourselves, we certainly have no right to expect total strangers to do so for $35K a year.
@mickeyqbitsko - The word "H-o-l-e" is censored!
"I was walking through the weeds and I fell in a hole."
Just testing.
"I was walking through the weeds and I fell in a hole."
Just testing.
It is obvious that society has lost it's way.
The respect given to parents, grandparents, teachers, police officers, or the elderly have long gone.
Children grow up with no sense of love of country, community or family and family being number one. For if you grow up in a loving family and respect one another that instills the other two.
Gangs get together because they feel they need a family and be respected and they have turned in killing one another and innocent ones like this 7 year old girl as their "RESPECT" their "DUTY" to themselves and their family their "GANG"
What they don't realize is that they are just killing off their own kind as well which shows no "RESPECT" and no "DUTY" to their own ethnic, culture or country they come from.
I am sure that the MEIXCAN COMMUNITY is proud of themselves for letting this gang thing getting out of control in LA and now it is here in SL.
10 years ago I went to a Gang Conference and what they had to say there is now here big time out in the open more so. It was just a matter of time for an innocent child to be killed and she will probably not be the last since the MEXICAN, ASIAN, TONGAN, SOMONAN, and yes, the CAUSIAN COMMUNITIES realize that their children are growing up to be killers and parents are turning their backs on what their children are doing right in their own homes.
God Bless this Angel that was taken from her family for no reason!!!!!!!!!!
The respect given to parents, grandparents, teachers, police officers, or the elderly have long gone.
Children grow up with no sense of love of country, community or family and family being number one. For if you grow up in a loving family and respect one another that instills the other two.
Gangs get together because they feel they need a family and be respected and they have turned in killing one another and innocent ones like this 7 year old girl as their "RESPECT" their "DUTY" to themselves and their family their "GANG"
What they don't realize is that they are just killing off their own kind as well which shows no "RESPECT" and no "DUTY" to their own ethnic, culture or country they come from.
I am sure that the MEIXCAN COMMUNITY is proud of themselves for letting this gang thing getting out of control in LA and now it is here in SL.
10 years ago I went to a Gang Conference and what they had to say there is now here big time out in the open more so. It was just a matter of time for an innocent child to be killed and she will probably not be the last since the MEXICAN, ASIAN, TONGAN, SOMONAN, and yes, the CAUSIAN COMMUNITIES realize that their children are growing up to be killers and parents are turning their backs on what their children are doing right in their own homes.
God Bless this Angel that was taken from her family for no reason!!!!!!!!!!
I am 100% against ilegal imigration. I do believe that there needs to be and end to people blaming imigrants for what a few people do, if you were to look at the trends gang violence is mainly young second and third. Violence is not limited to hispanics or imigrants. It is not limited to legals or ilegals. There needs to be an understanding made that most ilegals do come here to work and better their lives just because they were not able to go through the system does not make them bad. As a society we need to reform the system for allowing these people to come here and be a part of our comunity. We need to make it possible for those that want to work here to be able to do so with out fear of being deported so they can become active members of society.
This girl was innocent. My prayers are with her family at this time.
Shame on all of you who are being so insensitive to this family. Let's debate the immigration issue in another story!
Shame on all of you who are being so insensitive to this family. Let's debate the immigration issue in another story!
the old addage of "live by the sword, die by the sword" comes true, although it was an incocent that died. If the family is part of a gang, then they put the rest of their family in harms way. I have a son that was in gangs at one time, and his biggest worry was that some rival would find out where his family lived and do a drive by and injure one of the family. PTL that never happened and he has turned his life around and is working in another state assisting people to get out of gangs. I hope and pray that there is no retaliation and another inocent person is injured of killed.
I am so sorry for the parents of this little girl- I hope this is not the case with their family, however, I would like the families of the drive by shootings to be held responsible if ANY of their family members are involved in gangs. They are being negligent in their children's lives for bringing that lifestyle into contact with their children. They are shooting at their houses for some reason. I hope this was not the case in this girls life. I hope her family was not involved in this lifestyle at all.
I just read the comments that some people have posted here about the little angel that was killed. Let me tell you, it can happen to any of us, we are parents, we are brothers, we are families, it is not fair that we turn this blog into a racist show, it does not matter if the little girl or her family is an illegal inmigrant, in stead we should unite with their pain and show care, lets be what this nation was build on and specially what Utah is about, "love and friendship". They are human beings lets not forget about that.
@Henry5647 - I don't know what is more disgusting, your rhetoric or your complete ignorance on this issue. You can't throw 'love and friendship' at gang bangers, Henry5647. All they care about is turf, and if you're in that turf then you're dead. I think it's time you wake up and realize that your little bubble of an existence has cancer growing in it. If you let it grow, then you deserve to reap the benefits. Fool.
@Henry5647 - ....are not human beings. I have no love or friendship for them. They deserve nothing but a bullet in the base of the skull.
They'd kill you for sport, and wouldn't feel a moment's remorse.
They'd kill you for sport, and wouldn't feel a moment's remorse.
The Shooter is a punk and deserves to die. It is to bad that these punk shooters are such cowards. They should only shoot each other in parking lots when nobody else is there. This happened in the Smith's Parking lot about ten years ago. Both shooters killed each other. That's what I call a good start!!!A thirty cent solution to a multi-generational problem.
How sad... I see that the poor little angel that got killed is getting nothing but little respect. Some of you have turn this into a circus of hating racism. Respect the pain of another human being. Americans, hispanics and other we all suffer the same. Remember that!
@Henry5647 - We Americans do suffer because of the Hispanics!
@DarkSide - What do you mean americans there are allot of Hispanics that are probably more american then you think of being. Where do you all get off on slamming Hispanic/Mexicans all the time . Remember that when your daughter falls in love with one of them or your son what are you going to say then hello define AMerican it does not mean whites only .
i for one realize that this crime will continue until one side or the other says thats enough gang on gang crime is all too common and one thing that will come of this girls death is that the friends and family will now go after friends and family of the killers wich in turn will come back at this girls family and friends and so on and so on the problem with gang members is that revenge is a must for them. Mark my words sooner than later there will be another killing if not an attempted one its sad but true. i hope this girls family can get through this trauma my prayers are with them.
Apparently gang members believe that if you are under 18 you can do anything you want, --- kill as many people as you want, etc. We need to change that. NOW ! ! !
@Old Redtail - if your 16 and are charged with a first degree felony you can be tried as an adult all 4 of these punk can face the death penalty
at the nearest tree, next weekend after a speedy trial. enough of this 10-20years for justice to be served.
If you aren’t familiar with gangs and think that these kids should just say no to gang banging. But saying no can get you killed!
The quickest exit from gang life is via the morgue. The surest route is a one-way ticket out of the old neighborhood. The safest way out of a gang -- short of fleeing -- is to fade away very carefully. For most young gang members, that leaves no choice at all. You make a commitment, and it's lifelong. Most young gang bangers don't even think about getting out. The money and security are too good and the alternatives too few. The gang is a surrogate family and the only source of approval, however convoluted, that they'll ever know. Pathetically, all the bloodshed is merely a by product of an utterly misguided and frantic inner search for respect. Anyway the worst case scenario is retaliation by family member this will bring more blood shed. And it will get worst before it get better if this happens.
The quickest exit from gang life is via the morgue. The surest route is a one-way ticket out of the old neighborhood. The safest way out of a gang -- short of fleeing -- is to fade away very carefully. For most young gang members, that leaves no choice at all. You make a commitment, and it's lifelong. Most young gang bangers don't even think about getting out. The money and security are too good and the alternatives too few. The gang is a surrogate family and the only source of approval, however convoluted, that they'll ever know. Pathetically, all the bloodshed is merely a by product of an utterly misguided and frantic inner search for respect. Anyway the worst case scenario is retaliation by family member this will bring more blood shed. And it will get worst before it get better if this happens.
I suggest a public hanging.
@Price1869 - hang all of the ones involved and what the **** do the one who stole the little girls tricycle.
All of the trash that Arizona is kicking out of their state is quickly migrating to the northern neighbor of Utah. The crimes, graffiti, and gangs that have been hitting SLC are strangely familiar to those that Maricopa county police have been cracking down on in the metro Phoenix area. Too bad there are so many people in SLC that would rather show 'compassion' to gang bangers rather than treat them like the trash they are. Throw the bullcrap rhetoric of 'racism' and 'give them a chance' overboard. There will be a lot more dead children in the streets of SLC if the people don't get a stranglehold upon this issue quickly.
@Sick and Tired... - When the chamber of commerce thinks about illegal aliens, they see a cheap source of labor. Who else will build thousands of shoddy Ivory homes for low pay?
When various church leaders speak about compassion, they see potential converts who will begin donating 10% of their income to the cause.
Both groups aren't as concerned about the consequences of their compassion. They don't care about higher crime rates, identity theft, saturation of schools and medical clinics caused by uncontrolled immigration. They are just concerned about their bottom line: $$$
When various church leaders speak about compassion, they see potential converts who will begin donating 10% of their income to the cause.
Both groups aren't as concerned about the consequences of their compassion. They don't care about higher crime rates, identity theft, saturation of schools and medical clinics caused by uncontrolled immigration. They are just concerned about their bottom line: $$$
@Lee D. - I got derided at a church meeting the other day when I said something derogatory towards illegals. Several men stood up to tell me how wrong I was and how wonderful brother so and so (a hispanic) is. I don't know what its going to take before these people pull their heads out of their back-ends and wake up to the reality of the situation.
@Phil W. - bravooooooooooo!! and you go to church every single suunday!!!!! what a wonderful example you are!!!
@Phil W. - What did you expect? You know that churches look the other way now. They didn't use to 20 years ago. In fact, 20 years ago, people would expired student visas lived in fear of being turned in to immigration, sometimes even by their own church members, especially if there was any dating the wrong girl going on. Bang. Deportation. Bishops used to say that they wouldn't never shelter illegals because it was a violation of Articles number 12. You won't hear that today. Guaranteed. See how things change according to the required convenience of the times?
I appreciate Charles and Rachel trying to bring facts to an argument that often gets conflated with sentimentality, bigotry, fuzzy economics, etc. I have to agree with Charles that illegal immigrants (let alone the children of immigrants given amensty) seem to have disproportionately high rates of crime. Last fall and again this spring, when SLPD swept Pioneer Park, KSL reported that "one-hundred-sixty-five people were arrested for soliciting drugs and 87 for distribution--most of those 87 people were in the country illegally." I think we'd find similar stats in many other types of crime. Too bad that so many special interests such as the Chamber of Commerce and various church groups go out of their way to sugarcoat the issue. If we were given better information about crimerates and status, we could make more informed policy decisions. We could settle on an appropriate number of immigrants from all parts of the globe, and with appropriate language abilities, education and job skills. But as it is now, we allow millions of (mostly) Mexican citizes to self-select as our immigrant future. That's not only unfair, but also unwise.
Don't waste my court system, no justice for punks! Hang em in the street as soon as they are caught.
Same goes for the house they were trying to shoot at.
Hang em all and let me buy their cars at auction.
Same goes for the house they were trying to shoot at.
Hang em all and let me buy their cars at auction.
A little girl has been killed that is the issue. All the issues that are being talked about have nothing to do with what has happened. Our community has a heavy undercurrent of evil from our politicans to our next door neighbor. May God help us before we destroy each other with hate, revenge and discrimination. Punish these individuals to the fullest extent of the law. May God bless this little girl and give us all the strenght to put down this evil.
This guy should be put to death if found guilty. I don't care that he is hispanic, the punishment should fit the crime. His days of terrorizing neighborhoods should be over forever.
We here in Utah need an express lane to the execution.....take a page from Texas.
We here in Utah need an express lane to the execution.....take a page from Texas.
These punks, whether white, black, purple, pink, tan or whatever subscribe to a culture of violence which makes them unfit to participate in our society. When apprehended they need to pay a harsh price THE FIRST TIME and not be coddled. If they're here illegally or legally they need to be caged up or euthanized. When caught, they should forfit all their property to the state/county/city (i.e. taxpayers). If they're under 18 their parents should be held financially responsible and if a pattern of parenting law breakers is found, they should be required to leave our country or forfit any right to procreate miscreants. Our police, deputies, highway patrol should all be REQUIRED to check citizenship right along with checking for a valid driver's license. If they have a bogus social security number that should be investigated and punished as identity theft. All known gang members and their sympathizers need to be rounded up...whether they're white, yellow, tan, black or pink. When they're captured, if they don't cooperate with the authorities by divulging the names and identities of all their associates AND by allowing authorities to put a gps device on/in them, they should be placed in a work camp until they "see the light".
As a culture which tolerates being victimized and wants to "protect individuals (even criminals) rights", we are inviting these tragedies to occur. Parents, educators and law enforcement know who these people are and need to get over their sensitivities by being made familiar with the carnage (speaking of parents and educators) that results from their refusal to deal with the unpleasantries inherent in bringing these miscreants to the attention of juvenile and adult law enforcement AND the courts. And the courts need to get tough with long sentences, confiscation of property and deportation/exile (how about an island off the coast of Alaska?). Plus, we need to pay for the law enforcement to get all this done.
Until then, don't whine.
As a culture which tolerates being victimized and wants to "protect individuals (even criminals) rights", we are inviting these tragedies to occur. Parents, educators and law enforcement know who these people are and need to get over their sensitivities by being made familiar with the carnage (speaking of parents and educators) that results from their refusal to deal with the unpleasantries inherent in bringing these miscreants to the attention of juvenile and adult law enforcement AND the courts. And the courts need to get tough with long sentences, confiscation of property and deportation/exile (how about an island off the coast of Alaska?). Plus, we need to pay for the law enforcement to get all this done.
Until then, don't whine.
It takes a lot of guts to shoot a little girl! Better yet, it takes a bigger man to shoot a kid from his car because he is too chicken to face the other gangsters in their face! Sounds like a real winner! I am sure he feels like he is all that and a bag a chips now. He can add one of those classy looking tear drop looking tattoos to his face... add to the tally! Boy I love gangsters!
I think the MAJORITY of the people of Utah have spoken: We're sick and tired of the Illegal B.S. and it needs to stop. Hopefully we will follow the state of Arizona and put an end to these employers who are refusing to use the eVerify system and put an end to this endless illegal migration into the state by one predominant group. Immigration is about all races not just one. That alone should raise some red flags here. Keep the good Mexicans in, the ones who are legal, kick all the rest out, clean up the state and start over. Or, look at the alternative, keep them coming and then watch this society and state fall apart. Which would you prefer?
.... who hate hispanics so much. I have a question for you. How are you going to feel if the 7 year old girl who was murdered is hispanic ???????? STOP and think about that for a second. Does she deserve to die before any other 7 year old???? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Until we can see all people regardless of race as we see a 7 year old child , we will never win. Until our justice system is willing to weed out the criminals from our society ,we will continue having problems. I really feel that we need to make prison / jail the most miserable and fearful place to be for the prisoners. That way they might not see it as a country club where they can work out , watch tv and get ahold of any drugs they want.
(If they want to join a gang let it be the chain gang)......
(If they want to join a gang let it be the chain gang)......
@JEDI NATE - Daughter of gang member shot during gang shooting. While a child dying anywhere is a bad thing, poor choices by parents often lead to bad conclusions.
@B B. - what I was just thinking. Initial news reports stated that gang threats were made earlier in the day to this very home. If rival gang members were in the same household as this little girl was living in, her parents should have done much more to protect her.
@JEDI NATE - Some of the finest Americans are of Hispanic descent! We have a problem with ILLEGAL ALIENS...can you get that through your thick skull...ILLEGALS!
@JEDI NATE - You need to separate race from legal status. Those are two completely different things. Most Americans are comfortable with the "melting pot" concept, where people from diverse cultures and backgrounds can come together and share the same ideal.
However, there is an ever increasing group of people who come here without any regard for our laws and traditions . When they get caught breaking the law or doing things which are culturally unacceptable, they immediately point there fingers and call everyone else racist.
I think it's hypocritical that some of these groups which try to confuse the issue and yell the loudest have organizations which use the term "raza" (race) as part of their name or slogans.
Until we actually have secured borders, deporting illegal aliens back home does nothing but provide a mini-vacation/reunion before they come right back. It's equivalent to pumping water from the bottom of a failed dam and dumping it back into the reservoir behind the dam, without ever trying to fix the dam.
If we're not going to build a fence, we should at least deport them to the middle east so it isn't so simple to return. Or perhaps we could amputate a leg or two. I'm pretty sure it would be harder to sneak across the border on crutches...
However, there is an ever increasing group of people who come here without any regard for our laws and traditions . When they get caught breaking the law or doing things which are culturally unacceptable, they immediately point there fingers and call everyone else racist.
I think it's hypocritical that some of these groups which try to confuse the issue and yell the loudest have organizations which use the term "raza" (race) as part of their name or slogans.
Until we actually have secured borders, deporting illegal aliens back home does nothing but provide a mini-vacation/reunion before they come right back. It's equivalent to pumping water from the bottom of a failed dam and dumping it back into the reservoir behind the dam, without ever trying to fix the dam.
If we're not going to build a fence, we should at least deport them to the middle east so it isn't so simple to return. Or perhaps we could amputate a leg or two. I'm pretty sure it would be harder to sneak across the border on crutches...
The Church should hire a few old fashioned Danites like Brother Rockwell. They could hunt these punks down in the dead of night. The Road Crews could then fish their worthless bodies out of the Great Salt Lake and then charge their families for the bullet and burial. The good old Danite adage, "One to the head and two to the body." We need to practice good gun control when taking out these punks.
The ferrel piece of human debris who killed this little girl, was in fact an ILLEGAL alien, previously deported before...for firearms violations.
Benavidez - aka Felipe Alarcon Jimenez - was deported last year in connection with felony convictions in two Salt Lake City cases, according to court records.
In June 2006, Benavidez pleaded guilty to third-degree felony counts of aggravated assault and discharging a firearm from a vehicle or highway. As part of a plea deal, two other aggravated assault charged and three other firearm discharge counts were dismissed. Benavidez had fired five shots at another man, according to 3rd District Court records, following an earlier incident where Benavidez had tried to kiss a woman, which precipitated a fight.
Benavidez - aka Felipe Alarcon Jimenez - was deported last year in connection with felony convictions in two Salt Lake City cases, according to court records.
In June 2006, Benavidez pleaded guilty to third-degree felony counts of aggravated assault and discharging a firearm from a vehicle or highway. As part of a plea deal, two other aggravated assault charged and three other firearm discharge counts were dismissed. Benavidez had fired five shots at another man, according to 3rd District Court records, following an earlier incident where Benavidez had tried to kiss a woman, which precipitated a fight.
@DahktaD - For informing us that Benavidez was in fact an illegal. Something that KSL failed to report. Sltrib.com confirmed what you wrote - that he was an illegal who had been previously deported.
The blood of this little girl is on Chris Cannon, Bush, Kennedy, and all of the other open borders advocates. That includes the liberal judges who failed to throw the book at this gangbanger scum the last time he was incarcerated.
The blood of this little girl is on Chris Cannon, Bush, Kennedy, and all of the other open borders advocates. That includes the liberal judges who failed to throw the book at this gangbanger scum the last time he was incarcerated.
If we educate and teach the 7 year old right from wrong, regardless of what her parents are. She will be able to grow up and chose right from wrong.
if people with different skin color other than you BOTHER YOU, then just close your eyes when you go out and each day. Pretend everyone is white or whatever color you prefer and treat them with respect as you do the preferred race. Soon you will become a happy person and enjoy life and guess what the jerks you meet will come in all colors and nationalities. A ridicilious solution for a equally ridiciously problem of race hating. So stop looking for percentile proof and just use common sense. Also most of what rachel has said is RIGHT ON. stop the HATRED and enjoy life IT IS TOO SHORT AS IT IS
@MyOpinion4U - Sure if you live in a pink fuzzy cute little bubble and have no desire to keep you country yours! Are you an illegal alien? Cuz if you are I bet what Rachel said sounds pretty good to you. Do you know that these illegal immigrants are protesting in our streets the laws we are trying to make to secure our borders and criminalize people that hire illegals? Did you know they feel entitled to what we have made out of that junk desert land called California? Do you even understand that in Mexico they will tell you that the illegal immigrants are the scum of their society? They do not have respect for them and they are the degenerate culture of that country.
Why should we have to put up with their gangs? Why should we foot the bill for their lives and living expenses? Why should we have to deal with their blatant disrespect for this country and what it stands for? Why should we have to deal with people wanting to sing our national anthem in Spanish? Or deal with whole communities that seem to be turning into MEXICO? This is America!! People that immigrate here become AMERICANS...but the illegals that come here refuse to learn English refuse to live up to a standard where they can support themselves consistently commit crimes and use the benefits of our health and welfare systems draining and crippling our nation.
It's a disgrace to the people that died freeing this nation and that died to secure our freedoms, now because of people like you life gets harder for the children of those patriots...our fore fathers sacrificed EVERYTHING for the making of this nation...if they hate their country so bad why can't they do the same?
Why do they insist on coming here and crippling us? Taking what we worked hard for and fought for and set up for the benefit of our citizens...and essentially stealing it, and in the process driving down wages for legal Americans and issuing a burden on taxpayers and schools systems and health care systems? And you all just think thats ok? Get real...better yet why don't you just sell your should to the communist nations cuz we're going to be one soon if this keeps up. Do yourself a favor, watch this and see if you still feel the same.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=aztlan+rising&sitesearch=#
Why should we have to put up with their gangs? Why should we foot the bill for their lives and living expenses? Why should we have to deal with their blatant disrespect for this country and what it stands for? Why should we have to deal with people wanting to sing our national anthem in Spanish? Or deal with whole communities that seem to be turning into MEXICO? This is America!! People that immigrate here become AMERICANS...but the illegals that come here refuse to learn English refuse to live up to a standard where they can support themselves consistently commit crimes and use the benefits of our health and welfare systems draining and crippling our nation.
It's a disgrace to the people that died freeing this nation and that died to secure our freedoms, now because of people like you life gets harder for the children of those patriots...our fore fathers sacrificed EVERYTHING for the making of this nation...if they hate their country so bad why can't they do the same?
Why do they insist on coming here and crippling us? Taking what we worked hard for and fought for and set up for the benefit of our citizens...and essentially stealing it, and in the process driving down wages for legal Americans and issuing a burden on taxpayers and schools systems and health care systems? And you all just think thats ok? Get real...better yet why don't you just sell your should to the communist nations cuz we're going to be one soon if this keeps up. Do yourself a favor, watch this and see if you still feel the same.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=aztlan+rising&sitesearch=#
our justice system will do something this time... Probably not.
@JEDI NATE - not while SLC and several other towns remain sanctuaries for illegals. The blood of this little girl is on the hands of Benevides and those who failed to throw the key away the last time he was arrested on gun charges.
so you don't care if someone that is a citizen commits a crime??? come on dummy. A crime is a crime no matter what you are. Get that through your thick skull.
@JEDI NATE - The point is, Skippy, we have our own US bred criminals...why should that be exasberated by foreign nationals adding to the problem?
@JEDI NATE - ....but no illegals would commit crimes in the U.S. if we properly controlled our borders.
I can't imagine why that isn't obvious to some people.
I can't imagine why that isn't obvious to some people.
and she was murdered in cold blood by violent Hispanics who are likely illegal immigrants or spawn of illegal immigrants. I can only imagine the heartbreak of her family at the loss of a precious child.
The vast majority of law-abiding (legal) Hispanic immigrants are hard working, honest people who love this country and the opportunity it affords them.
The vast majority of Hispanics arrested for violent crime are here illegally. They are self-serving opportunists who care nothing about national sovereignty or rule of law. There is a strong correlation between crime and illegal immigration status; and in fact, illegal immigrants are responsible for a incredibly disproportionate (based on demographics) share of violent crime. Furthermore, the vast majority of illegal immigrants who commit violent crimes are Mexican nationals.
There is little or no anti-Hispanic rhetoric in all the posts here. There is a lot of anti-illegal-immigrant rhetoric. I trust you can perceive the difference.
On the other hand, there are a lot of myopic, socialist-leaning posters here who think any comment articulating a statistical link between illegal Hispanics immigrants and crime is somehow ethnically biased. They like to use words like "racist" or "bigot" to try to shout down statistical realities. Those statistics indicate that these perps, in this case, are most likely either illegal immigrants themselves, or anchor babies. To argue otherwise is to suggest that our law-abiding Hispanic neighbors, who are in this country legally, are just as likely to commit violent crimes as their illegal counterparts. Why those who cry "racist" and "bigot" want to color all Hispanics with the same brush, and pretend that those here legally are just a likely to commit felonies as their illegal counterparts is beyond reason, and frankly hypocritical.
We need to amend the Constitution so that only children born to parents who are legally in the USA are granted citizenship. A simple change in laws that denies illegal immigrants (and their children) any access to tax-payer funded social programs (including education) would be better than a fence. Remove the incentive for those who are looking for entitlements and you would see a higher percentage of immigrants who really are seeking liberty and individual responsibility: the kind of immigrants that built and sustained this country; the kind of immigrants that we want and need.
The vast majority of law-abiding (legal) Hispanic immigrants are hard working, honest people who love this country and the opportunity it affords them.
The vast majority of Hispanics arrested for violent crime are here illegally. They are self-serving opportunists who care nothing about national sovereignty or rule of law. There is a strong correlation between crime and illegal immigration status; and in fact, illegal immigrants are responsible for a incredibly disproportionate (based on demographics) share of violent crime. Furthermore, the vast majority of illegal immigrants who commit violent crimes are Mexican nationals.
There is little or no anti-Hispanic rhetoric in all the posts here. There is a lot of anti-illegal-immigrant rhetoric. I trust you can perceive the difference.
On the other hand, there are a lot of myopic, socialist-leaning posters here who think any comment articulating a statistical link between illegal Hispanics immigrants and crime is somehow ethnically biased. They like to use words like "racist" or "bigot" to try to shout down statistical realities. Those statistics indicate that these perps, in this case, are most likely either illegal immigrants themselves, or anchor babies. To argue otherwise is to suggest that our law-abiding Hispanic neighbors, who are in this country legally, are just as likely to commit violent crimes as their illegal counterparts. Why those who cry "racist" and "bigot" want to color all Hispanics with the same brush, and pretend that those here legally are just a likely to commit felonies as their illegal counterparts is beyond reason, and frankly hypocritical.
We need to amend the Constitution so that only children born to parents who are legally in the USA are granted citizenship. A simple change in laws that denies illegal immigrants (and their children) any access to tax-payer funded social programs (including education) would be better than a fence. Remove the incentive for those who are looking for entitlements and you would see a higher percentage of immigrants who really are seeking liberty and individual responsibility: the kind of immigrants that built and sustained this country; the kind of immigrants that we want and need.
It just verifies that uneducated morons should not have any rights, PERIOD. I feel for this family and I could never imagine this happening in Utah, our quality of life here looks to be going away and going fast.
understand may comment. I was trying to point out the fact that race is such an issue to people, that we have forgotten that we are all human. I happen to be married to a hispanic woman and have three children. Unfortunatly these ignorant people that cannot stand hispanic people on ksl would just assume they are illegal beacause they dont look like their kids. So yes it is personal to me when I hear such idiocracy , beacause I realize my children are going to have to deal with such ignorance their whole life just beacause they have a different color skin.
@JEDI NATE - Yes some people will always hate of any thing and that is not right. I think most post are about the illegal hispanic's that in no way want to be legal here. I have extended family that are hispanic, legal, work, some are even retired now, and America is their home and they are family no matter a color to me.
have got to quit supporting these people. I don't mean just the LDS, but all faiths. I am a Christian, and I am willing to assist anyone who is trying to better themselves. As long as they are doing EVERYTHING that they can to improve, I will do EVERYTHING that I can to assist and be a blessing to them. There are a lot of faiths in this valley that don't do their homework on people and just hand out to who ever comes to the door. This is not the plan that was givin to us in the Good Book. It states that if a man is not willing to work, he should not eat.
If the punishment dosnt fit the crime the crime will continue. I am sick of the way our legal system works,
go to prison and get free food and cable. BS if they are guilty they should die.
go to prison and get free food and cable. BS if they are guilty they should die.
Any gang related crime should get a punishment that removes the 'gang' aspect from their lives. They go to jail and get to hang out with other gang members there. Instead, stick 'em all in solitary confinement for the duration of their sentence. Severely limit their visitation rights (only family, only once per year). Stop the gang from functioning behind bars. Going to jail for a year will be incentive enough then to make them never want to go back to the gang.
Felipe Alarcon Jimenez 5/4/2006 Aggravated Assault = Guilty
Felipe Alarcon Jimenez 5/4/2006 Discharging Firearm From Veh/hwy = Guilty
Felipe Alarcon Jimenez 5/9/2007 Fail To Stop/respond At Command Of Police = Guilty
http://utahsright.com/charges.php?first=&last=jimenez&page=3
Felipe Alarcon Jimenez 5/4/2006 Discharging Firearm From Veh/hwy = Guilty
Felipe Alarcon Jimenez 5/9/2007 Fail To Stop/respond At Command Of Police = Guilty
http://utahsright.com/charges.php?first=&last=jimenez&page=3
@Audrey S. - It makes one wonder why he still was on the streets..maybe this would have never happened had they done something with him years back, but he is only one of many criminals that are on the streets. It is sad that it is this way.
That our system of law enforcement cannot put an end to the gang problem, these cowards can't get along with each other so they use weapons, instead of facing off and throwing fists and calling it good, they have to resort to cowardly shooting from a car, this is nothing more than terrorism, and our law enforcement should be very active in ending gang violence, making the punishment as severe as possible!
It does not matter where you are from, who you are, where do you live,legal or ilegal, what color you are, if this guy killed her, he should be punished with the strongest of the law. Everything else, is just Bs. That little girl is resting now with the peace of heaven and their should be justice.
It is to bad that the small amount of hispanics that are violent ruin it for all hispanics. I think we need Wall-e robots on the borders, Everyone that tries to get across Wall-e comes out and zaps [no swearing please] out of them.....Undala undala zap.zap zap...
@snbatt2008 - If we let people in who identify themselves and have no criminal records, then we can safely assume that the ones SNEAKING in must be criminals. Why else would they go to that effort and danger? We could then machine-gun the sneaky ones with a clear conscience.
I volunteer for that job, by the way, if they need a trigger man.
I volunteer for that job, by the way, if they need a trigger man.
One of my former best friends is hispanic and he was a good kid. His parents are here legally but are originally from Mexico. His father is a DECORATED war hero from Vietnam. He jumped on a grenade and saved his fellow soldiers on the field. As a result he lost a lot of movement on the right side of his body and he is missing a lot of muscles on his arms and legs. He is PROUD to be American but his son.... yeah.... they live in Ogden and of course if you are hispanic descent and living in Ogden you have to be in a gang.
His parents thought he was such a good kid but they never saw how he acted when he wasn't with them. He did have a lot of potential, his dad MADE him work in the onion fields so he could learn what it was like to earn your money. He was never given anything unless he earned it and if you ask me, his father was one great role model. He got in trouble at 14 and his father sent him to military school to shape him up. He was a VERY decorated student at the military school and many had thought he had turned his life around. As soon as he came back to Ogden he started to fall back into the stereotype again. Started Dealing drugs, getting tattoo's and running with the local gangsters. He always said "once you are in it, it's hard to get out of it cuz all the people you used to associate with will think you are a snitch and then they threaten your family and really mess with you". He got busted for dealing drugs and spent time in Prison. His mom was devisated, father was outraged and they asked me how it could happen and I explained it to them. Now his father spends his time talking to the young hispanics and teaching them that they can get out of it.
Their son is now out of prison.... last time I talked to him.... he was still running around with the "gang". I no longer associate with him. It sucks because he has a lot of potential... he is very smart, just doesn't have the cajones to stick up for himself and tell them to get outta here.
There are good hispanics out there... its a shame that these ones keep dragging them all down and bringing them into their world.
Same thing as being a black man in Compton, if you aren't in a gang... you're a target!
His parents thought he was such a good kid but they never saw how he acted when he wasn't with them. He did have a lot of potential, his dad MADE him work in the onion fields so he could learn what it was like to earn your money. He was never given anything unless he earned it and if you ask me, his father was one great role model. He got in trouble at 14 and his father sent him to military school to shape him up. He was a VERY decorated student at the military school and many had thought he had turned his life around. As soon as he came back to Ogden he started to fall back into the stereotype again. Started Dealing drugs, getting tattoo's and running with the local gangsters. He always said "once you are in it, it's hard to get out of it cuz all the people you used to associate with will think you are a snitch and then they threaten your family and really mess with you". He got busted for dealing drugs and spent time in Prison. His mom was devisated, father was outraged and they asked me how it could happen and I explained it to them. Now his father spends his time talking to the young hispanics and teaching them that they can get out of it.
Their son is now out of prison.... last time I talked to him.... he was still running around with the "gang". I no longer associate with him. It sucks because he has a lot of potential... he is very smart, just doesn't have the cajones to stick up for himself and tell them to get outta here.
There are good hispanics out there... its a shame that these ones keep dragging them all down and bringing them into their world.
Same thing as being a black man in Compton, if you aren't in a gang... you're a target!
@VooduTube - Since when did "hispanic descent and living in Ogden you have to be in a gang" come into effect? I have heard that argument in my neighborhood being solicited to the youth "you are [insert country of origin here], we have to stick together" and it makes me sick. I know of several instances where they continually turn down the offer and nothing happens to them. NOBODY is forcing them to be in a gang, they are falling to peer pressure.
Maybe if their parents made home a better place to be they wouldn't feel the need to be in a gang.
[speculation, not accusation]
Maybe if their parents made home a better place to be they wouldn't feel the need to be in a gang.
[speculation, not accusation]
America is losing a ton of money every year do to the money spent on helping there cause. Health care, foodstamps, housing, Those that go out and try to open businesses etc should get incentives.
After reading as many of these posts as I can stand, I am disappointed to feel like the issue is changing from murder to race. Don’t worry I’m “qualified” to comment because I’m legal and white. We can all digress to the core reasons for this murder, but let’s remember it is an article about murder not immigration, race, Mormons, gas or whatever. Therefore, my comment is if he’s guilty no matter what race, religion or gender, kill him. And to raise money for the victims of violent crime let’s put the execution on pay for view and use the proceeds to help other victims.
@John M. - So being white makes you "qualified" to call others here a racist? That in itself is a racist statement.
By the way, this has EVERYTHING to do with the illegal immigration issue, because had you read all the posts, you would know that this cowardly murderer was here illegally and in fact had been DEPORTED previously. If our borders were secure, this little girl would most likely be alive today.
By the way, this has EVERYTHING to do with the illegal immigration issue, because had you read all the posts, you would know that this cowardly murderer was here illegally and in fact had been DEPORTED previously. If our borders were secure, this little girl would most likely be alive today.
Call it what you want, Race or Murder, but look at Los Angerles, 85% of the Murders are Illegal aliens. Every night when the news is on, if they say we had a shooting or a stabbing, I tell my wife. Another Mexican, and you know what, I'm right 85% of the time.
That 85% of the crimes are being commited by illegal aliens, This doesn't mean that ALL of the illegals are commiting crimes. I would also argue that MOST of the illegal people here Are Not commiting crimes. Many of my friends are illegal aliens. I am a blond haired blue eyed BYU graduate, and I consider everyone to be a human being and believe everyone is to be treated with respect. But then again, I really like Martin Luther King Jr., and Jesus...and others who believe in Love...
who was taken from ALL of us by these pieces of human debris. These "gangsters" need to be tried and treated as adults, and deserve NOTHING from us except scorn and ridicule. They were willing to shoot up a house to try and get /scare/intimidate an alleged gang rival, instead they murdered in cold blood an innocent little child.
This is NOT about race except as a suspect description, this is only about what these pieces of trash did. These scum bags deserve to die a slow horrible and agonizing death, and nothing more.
Unfortunately, there will be their idiot families that want to rationalize/excuse/justify their hideous actions all in the name of saying that WE are "judging" their sons/relatives. Yes, we are judguing them, they ARE the ones who murdered an innocent in old blood. What DO they deserve other than a swift and fair trial? Not a thing more.
My sympathies lie only with the family, friends and loved one sof the little lost innoent.
This is NOT about race except as a suspect description, this is only about what these pieces of trash did. These scum bags deserve to die a slow horrible and agonizing death, and nothing more.
Unfortunately, there will be their idiot families that want to rationalize/excuse/justify their hideous actions all in the name of saying that WE are "judging" their sons/relatives. Yes, we are judguing them, they ARE the ones who murdered an innocent in old blood. What DO they deserve other than a swift and fair trial? Not a thing more.
My sympathies lie only with the family, friends and loved one sof the little lost innoent.
When a person's life is taken in such a tragic way....do u really think that it is appropiate to discuss whether they where hispanics? Give me a break..not all hispanics are cowards like this certin one. ok some of them actually have a heart and are actually good people so i dont understand why this is such a racial issue. The victim and hte victims family were also hispainc...so what are u guys gonna say about the now? oh ya some of them also went the right route and actually became US Citizens...dont know why this country and the goverment actually really sucks. i would rather stay in Mexico where they are treated with respect for who and what they are. So my opinion is : BACK OFF>
@queeniejo - ...... it is very appropriate to ask who is responsible and what can be done to stop them from doing it in the future. If it is determined that the adult in this story is here illegally it is just one more reason why they should be sent home.
Now that we are in a recession this would be an excellent time for illegal Mexicans to go home and find work in their own country.
Now that we are in a recession this would be an excellent time for illegal Mexicans to go home and find work in their own country.
@Rifleman - well then maybe we should say that YOU should go back from where you came from and find work there....and the US does suck...they hide there wrong doings..you know its true......so %$#@ the cavashos.
@queeniejo - ...... which specify that this is my country.
Two things are for sure, queeniego: The illegal alien driving the car when the little girl was murdered is a Mexican, and he won't be going home for a long long long time.
Two things are for sure, queeniego: The illegal alien driving the car when the little girl was murdered is a Mexican, and he won't be going home for a long long long time.
@Rifleman - if we knew the suspects were in fact illegal. I re-read the article twice, and found no mention of that.
@sundancer - then check other sources...Benevides is a prior deported aggravated felon. Just because you are to inept to do research, does not mean he isn't illegal, he IS and that is a FACT!
@queeniejo - You think MEXICO respects human beings? Are you insane? Do you have any idea how Mexico controls IT'S southern border? They rob, rape and shoot the Guatemalans trying to cross.
Go back to Mexico if it's so great.
The family of the victim was a GANGSTER. That's why he was being shot at. Duh. Can't you read?
Go back to Mexico if it's so great.
The family of the victim was a GANGSTER. That's why he was being shot at. Duh. Can't you read?
@mickeyqbitsko - Even if the father to that precious little girl is a gangster(which you dont even know if he is)..a life was taken and just cuz he is hispanic does not mean he is a gangster.....so have some respect. oh ya cavashos dont know what the word respect MEANS....
@queeniejo - And that's not surprising. Gangsters generally do drive-bys on other gangsters.
Follow the story. It'll be confirmed, though you might have to dig pretty deep before you find a news outlet with the guts to say it.
Follow the story. It'll be confirmed, though you might have to dig pretty deep before you find a news outlet with the guts to say it.
@queeniejo - ...... is that the driver of the car involved in the little girl's death is an illegal alien from Mexico. We also know that he has no respect for human life.
@queeniejo - Then WHY ARE YOU HERE if you hate the USA so much? You obviously love mexico, so go back there. I can guarantee that you and all of your other "homies" who hate America won't be missed.
If you want to live in America, then respect the country, the culture and the flag and Americans will respect you. If not, you are welcome to go back to where you came from.
And regarding this cowardly dirtbag who killed this innocent hispanic girl, he was here ILLEGALLY, which is the prime subject of the discussion here.
If you want to live in America, then respect the country, the culture and the flag and Americans will respect you. If not, you are welcome to go back to where you came from.
And regarding this cowardly dirtbag who killed this innocent hispanic girl, he was here ILLEGALLY, which is the prime subject of the discussion here.
I know people who have been illegal one day, and legal US citizens the next...I know people who, while crossing the border, drank out of puddles, gotten robbed by narcos, died, and drank their own urine to survive...They used to be illegal...They are citizens now...Does that make them better than the other illegals who are just waiting their turn to become nationals?
@LindsayB - Sneaking in is illegal. That makes you a criminal, by definition. Criminals are bad people.
LEGAL immigrants, who do it right, respect our laws and our sovereignty. They are better people than the ones who won't wait their turn.
Does that answer your question?
Drinking pee doesn't make you a better person.
LEGAL immigrants, who do it right, respect our laws and our sovereignty. They are better people than the ones who won't wait their turn.
Does that answer your question?
Drinking pee doesn't make you a better person.
1. CONTROL THE BORDERS.
2. Eliminate the "anchor baby" loophole and require that you have at least a green card before your baby can be considered a Citizen. Stop rewarding crime!
3. Decide how many workers we actually need on an annual basis. That's easy to do: If a business needs a certain number of entry-level workers, they simply fill out a request form.
4. Tally up those request forms and distribute them equitably among ALL nations with people wanting to come to the U.S. Immigration shouldn't be a Mexicans-Only club. America is supposed to be a melting pot. Think "fondue", not "menudo."
5. Allow in LEGAL immigrants who can identify themselves properly and who have no criminal records.
I want a liberal to tell me what's wrong with that plan, and why. I've asked this same question many times, and no liberal has ever even taken a stab at it. They'll insult and spout bumper sticker leftist rhetoric, but the bottom line is they won't discuss my proposals because the Party doesn't authorize them to do so. They don't think for themselves.
2. Eliminate the "anchor baby" loophole and require that you have at least a green card before your baby can be considered a Citizen. Stop rewarding crime!
3. Decide how many workers we actually need on an annual basis. That's easy to do: If a business needs a certain number of entry-level workers, they simply fill out a request form.
4. Tally up those request forms and distribute them equitably among ALL nations with people wanting to come to the U.S. Immigration shouldn't be a Mexicans-Only club. America is supposed to be a melting pot. Think "fondue", not "menudo."
5. Allow in LEGAL immigrants who can identify themselves properly and who have no criminal records.
I want a liberal to tell me what's wrong with that plan, and why. I've asked this same question many times, and no liberal has ever even taken a stab at it. They'll insult and spout bumper sticker leftist rhetoric, but the bottom line is they won't discuss my proposals because the Party doesn't authorize them to do so. They don't think for themselves.
I have a seven year old daughter and my stomach turns and heart breaks for their family. It doesn't mean that I am any better than them because I was born and raised the the US. This could have just have easily happened to me or you by any kind of sick criminal from whatever country, race and citizenship has nothing to do with it. Thinking that it does, well I believe that is racism.
@LindsayB - And more to the point: Her father is a gangster. HE was the intended target. And he'll respond by spraying bullets randomly at some other home.
Try to keep up...I am talking about people who came here illegaly (the ones that pay a bunch of money to run across the border) and are NOW LEGAl immigrants. They recently went throught the process and became real US citizens, social security card and all. Now they have papers, But they technically came running across the border originally. Are they better people now that they have paid a fine and become Bonafide US citizens? Is their character any different from the day the came swimming across the river? Or do ya think they might always have been 'good' people at heart who were just given a different opportunity than the rest of the still illegal?
@LindsayB - Was Ted Bundy a better person after he got caught?
I am a better person than a border-crosser. Period.
What makes you think I'm in favor of the "Pay a fine and get a gree card" policy? I'm not. We should NEVER reward crime.
We need to severely punish any employer caught paying illegals. Dry up the demand and the supply will go away.
This little girl had the misfortune of being born to a gang-banger. That's why she died. He's gathing up plenty of sympathy tears at this moment, but he won't hesitate to shoot somebody else's little girl in revenge.
I am a better person than a border-crosser. Period.
What makes you think I'm in favor of the "Pay a fine and get a gree card" policy? I'm not. We should NEVER reward crime.
We need to severely punish any employer caught paying illegals. Dry up the demand and the supply will go away.
This little girl had the misfortune of being born to a gang-banger. That's why she died. He's gathing up plenty of sympathy tears at this moment, but he won't hesitate to shoot somebody else's little girl in revenge.
you frank are indeed a real man, truly a sorry piece of crap. all gang bangers suck, crybaby sissys. they can not work or support themselves. where is the national guard with some high power rifles for these lowlifes?
How bizarre that this big race/immigration message deluge starts from this story. If it were Norwegians that shot someone would this big discussion about the evil Vikings break out? Would you complain about the People from Logan ruining Salt Lake? What is absent, and amazingly so, is the discussion about guns. This sort of thing DOESN'T HAPPEN OFTEN in Europe where the populations are more dense than here.(and there is lots of immigration there) Perhaps our love of making firearms everywhere MIGHT have something to do with it? Perhaps after a few more thousand children die you might figure it out.
@The Decider - It's only bizarre to people from Bizarro World.
If we had a big Viking violence problem, we WOULD be discussing Skandanavians. Don't you think perhaps there was some mention of Vikings in England in 950 A.D.? But I haven't noticed a lot of violent crime being committed by drunken blond people with horns on their hats. (Not outside Vikings football games, anyway.)
Guns? Guns have never been LESS common in America, per capita, than they are right now. Yet violent crime is much higher than it was a hundred years ago. The experience in America has been that Less Guns = More Crime. That doesn't prove cause-and-effect, obviously, but it certainly puts the lie to YOUR knee-jerk rhetoric.
Europe? Haven't you been reading the newspapers? Or are you just reading the City Weekly? They have skyrocketing rates of violent crime, stemming largely from their burgeoning Muslim immigrant populations. Those populations have become so large and so dangerous that the European governments are afraid to do anything about it for fear of violent reprisals. Didn't you hear about the riots in France? Haven't you heard about European governemnts considering allowing Muslims to govern themselves according to Shari'a Law?
Over the past 20 years well over 30 states have adopted a "shall issue" policy in regard to concealed-carry permits. Name ONE of those states that has seen an increase in gun violence. Try.
I'll give you an hint: Every, single one of them has seen a marked DECREASE in gun violence. Especially against the law-abiding. Florida has seen over an 80% reduction in violent crime against law-abiding citizens. (And a spike in crime against European tourists. Even a liberal should be able to figure that one out.)
You don't have a clue what you're talking about.
If we had a big Viking violence problem, we WOULD be discussing Skandanavians. Don't you think perhaps there was some mention of Vikings in England in 950 A.D.? But I haven't noticed a lot of violent crime being committed by drunken blond people with horns on their hats. (Not outside Vikings football games, anyway.)
Guns? Guns have never been LESS common in America, per capita, than they are right now. Yet violent crime is much higher than it was a hundred years ago. The experience in America has been that Less Guns = More Crime. That doesn't prove cause-and-effect, obviously, but it certainly puts the lie to YOUR knee-jerk rhetoric.
Europe? Haven't you been reading the newspapers? Or are you just reading the City Weekly? They have skyrocketing rates of violent crime, stemming largely from their burgeoning Muslim immigrant populations. Those populations have become so large and so dangerous that the European governments are afraid to do anything about it for fear of violent reprisals. Didn't you hear about the riots in France? Haven't you heard about European governemnts considering allowing Muslims to govern themselves according to Shari'a Law?
Over the past 20 years well over 30 states have adopted a "shall issue" policy in regard to concealed-carry permits. Name ONE of those states that has seen an increase in gun violence. Try.
I'll give you an hint: Every, single one of them has seen a marked DECREASE in gun violence. Especially against the law-abiding. Florida has seen over an 80% reduction in violent crime against law-abiding citizens. (And a spike in crime against European tourists. Even a liberal should be able to figure that one out.)
You don't have a clue what you're talking about.
@mickeyqbitsko - You are clearly insane. There has NEVER been a time in the last 100 years when a Scandinavian killed someone and race was called into issue. Only a person incapable of objectivity would make such a claim.
You say that guns have never been less common per capita than they are right now which is unsubstantiated and stupid at the same time. Millions of guns are millions of guns and more people get killed where there are millions of guns than where there are hundreds of guns. You won't/can't deal with that reality because you are illogical and emotional at your core.
When you deal with the problem of Europe which is the refutation to your position you do not deal with GUN VIOLENCE but instead morph into violent crime. With all of the immigrants they have LOW gun violence. If we listened to YOU we would then arm everyone so that they could be safe according to you. Then the gun deaths would rocket up and people like you would then start talking about race.
Apparently facts that oppose you are difficult to sort through. These simple themes that I have listed blow your position to pieces. I suggest you think about them rather than race.
You say that guns have never been less common per capita than they are right now which is unsubstantiated and stupid at the same time. Millions of guns are millions of guns and more people get killed where there are millions of guns than where there are hundreds of guns. You won't/can't deal with that reality because you are illogical and emotional at your core.
When you deal with the problem of Europe which is the refutation to your position you do not deal with GUN VIOLENCE but instead morph into violent crime. With all of the immigrants they have LOW gun violence. If we listened to YOU we would then arm everyone so that they could be safe according to you. Then the gun deaths would rocket up and people like you would then start talking about race.
Apparently facts that oppose you are difficult to sort through. These simple themes that I have listed blow your position to pieces. I suggest you think about them rather than race.
@The Decider - ...... that the 2nd Amendment applies to law abiding US citizens.
No need to argue the losing side of an arguement that has already been decided.
No need to argue the losing side of an arguement that has already been decided.
@The Decider - We have no problems with the Norwegians. In fact, they'd rarely give us so much grief so what's your point?
We don't have enough gang violence in Utah, we should welcome more of these upstanding illegal Mexican Immigrants into our neighborhoods. It would be good for us to experience cultural diversity in the USA, i.e. Poverty, Gang Violence, Drugs, Illiteracy, etc.
The illegals that come to this country, then commit a crime give up any rights they have to new life here. One writer said earlier that 20 million in our country of 300 million is not that much, but after they start poppin out little ones at the average of about 4-5 per, that 20 million multiplies quickly. All the illegals have no desire to do things legally, or they would take care of the legalities as soon as they get here. But they continue to hide from authorities, therfore getting everything handed to them for free and we legal citizens have to make up the difference, and this is culture is passed on the little ones and the cycle keeps on turning. If they are such hard workers, and most of them seem to be good with hard labor etc, why not stay in your own country and try to make it better? I don't have the answer to the prisoners, we send them back and they show up again. The Berlin wall worked great for about 40 years though. The protected border is a big investment up front but I think over the long haul, it would be a wise investment for our country. Something has to be done. Otherwise I'll change my name to Rodriguez next time I have to go to the emergency room.
What is wrong with you people? always be blaming everything on Mexicans, just because of the color of their skin. Did you know that there could be from El Salvador, Honduras,Guatemala, Panama, Bolivia, Equador, Colombia , Peru , Chile??? among others.
@Dreya - ....... reminds me of the illegals who overturned their car in southern Utah last last year. They all ran off, all that is with the exception of the young girl they left laying on the highway to die. What's wrong with those people? Some of the good folks from south of the border don't show all that much respect for human life. The death of this 7-year old girl reflects that callus attitude.
shoot back, defend yourselfs from these parasites, where are the cops? park one on every street w our tax dollars. give the cops what they need to take out these subhuman beasts. arm every single toddler to senior ,this is never gonna stop until you choke these parasites so they cannot survive, these parasites will not die off until their host is dead, cancer stops when the patient dies.......what can be worse , ape like creatures killing precious 7 year old child? whats worse? fight back now.
Really? Which one? Or all of them? Is the color of your skin that makes you better? Is it your education? Is it because you had the fabulous blessing of being born into this country? Does that make you better than someone else and in what way? Try not to make your response as ignorant as the earlier comment, people may question your upbringing...
As for your statements about securing the border, allowing worker visas, making sure all countries get equal dibs, I agree with you and you might be on to something. Just try to keep the racism out of it "I am better than a border crosser" Makes you look ignorant and I believe that you are more intelligent than that.
As for your statements about securing the border, allowing worker visas, making sure all countries get equal dibs, I agree with you and you might be on to something. Just try to keep the racism out of it "I am better than a border crosser" Makes you look ignorant and I believe that you are more intelligent than that.
We all agree that we hate the gangs. We agree that they are spineless cowards who contribute nothing of value to our society. We will never pass a law to hang them in public or shoot them on site because it would be unconstitutional. So what can we do? Take the law into our own hands? Is that what it has to come to? Honestly, what do we do? I agree we should close the border to illegals, but I don't think the violence of the gangs already established here will stop. I want to be a part of the solution, even if the solution is taking the law into our own hands. I just want to know what we as a society are going to do about this.
I taught this dear child this school year. It is no fault of hers that this horrific death has come to her. Any child in the world should be able to play outside her/his home safely! This has nothing to do with immigration. I will not name her because she has not been named in the news yet. Because of the location I have been waiting anxiously to see which student this would be.
This girl was an amazing little artist. She was so sweet and adorable. I am so sorry for her family because this is a loss that will never be recovered. Please, readers, imagine if this were your little sister, your daughter, your cousin. Imagine how upset her classmates will be. It was bad enough last year when another student's older sister was brutally shot. Most of you are financially lucky enough to buy your way into safer neighborhoods, but this girl's family was not so fortunate.
I am not pointing fingers at anyone. It is time for the bloodshed to stop! Seven year olds should be able to play outside on warm summer evenings without being killed, don't you think? I grieve alongside this girl's family and our entire school. Sad Teacher
This girl was an amazing little artist. She was so sweet and adorable. I am so sorry for her family because this is a loss that will never be recovered. Please, readers, imagine if this were your little sister, your daughter, your cousin. Imagine how upset her classmates will be. It was bad enough last year when another student's older sister was brutally shot. Most of you are financially lucky enough to buy your way into safer neighborhoods, but this girl's family was not so fortunate.
I am not pointing fingers at anyone. It is time for the bloodshed to stop! Seven year olds should be able to play outside on warm summer evenings without being killed, don't you think? I grieve alongside this girl's family and our entire school. Sad Teacher
@dm - Without guns she would still be alive.
@The Decider - ...... that the 2nd Amendment applies to law abiding US citizens.
@Rifleman - So what. You think it is good that this girl dies so you can shoot guns? Thats too high a price for your fun. I am doing nothing to help eliminate guns, the government is far too intrusive to help them with more control. But the issue here is that guns are more negative than they are worth. It is a simple fact.
@The Decider - Who's simple fact? I dont think it is a fact at all.
See http://www.gunfacts.info/ for simple facts
See http://www.gunfacts.info/ for simple facts
@The Decider - Ya, lets ban guns so LEGAL citizens who would be buying them LEGALLY can't access them and protect themsleves and their families from scum like this. Then all the scum bags like the ones who shot this little girl will Illegally buy/sell them to other vermin and kill more people. Do you think these vermin got the gun used to kill this little girl LEGALLY? Putting a ban on guns will simply take them out of the hands of law abiding people, and put them in the hands of black market vermin.
@Zeb R. - Why don't you use that same argument for other things? "Ya, lets ban citizens right to possess unlimited dynamite while the scum can buy all the dynamite they want." (Lets ban nuclear weapons...) What you say? The scum can't easily get dynamite because it is banned for most all people? OHHHH, the light goes off in your head and now you get it!!! The scum will have a much harder time getting guns in the new environment than the current one, just like.... Europe!!!! Where people don't get shot all the time like America!! Now we see, GUN BANS are logical AND good!!!
@The Decider - Comparing dynomite and nuclear weaponds availability to a gun...Good one. Obviously your the illogical one. There are hundreds of thousands of guns floating around in the black market. Would they all magically disappear if a ban was placed on buying legal guns? Use a little common sense. Take guns away from law abing citizens, the scum still have access to the hundreds of thousands of black market guns...Who do you think would have the upper hand? Ding! A light goes off in YOUR head, but you still don't get it because all the liberal rhetoric floating around in your head incapacitates you to understand clear logical truths when they are layed in front of you.
@The Decider - Tell that to the 4,000+ plus that have been shot to death in Mexico this year. It is illegal to own, possess, purchase or transport a firearm in Mexico, and yet the criminals manage to get their hands on them...how is that Decider? Are you so clueless to think imposing a law banning firearms will stop hoodlums from obtaining them? Thank God, we ahve the wisdom to allow LAW abiding citizens to have firearms for their own protection.
BTW - Benevides was convicted of firearms violations previously, yet managed to get a gun again to kill this little girl.
BTW - Benevides was convicted of firearms violations previously, yet managed to get a gun again to kill this little girl.
Dear illegal foreign national,
Avoid the risk of arrest and move to these identified sanctuary states and cities. Really. Utah is a state of law abiding people, and we do have a problem with people who flaunt our laws, like you illegal aliens. However, Utah is also a compassionate state and with that in mind, we encourage you to move and commit all the crime and violence you want in the below listed locations. These locations and people could careless what you do, unlike Utahns who would rather younot deal drugs, murder little girls, run like rapid dogs in gangs, mark your territory with spray paint, take our tax money, or in any other way take advantage of our citizens. So please, pack up your things and move to any of these locations:
California sanctuaries
Berkeley
East Palo Alto
Fresno
Garden Grove (Orange County)
Los Angeles
Oakland
Richmond
San Diego
San Francisco
San Jose
San Rafael
Santa Cruz
Watsonville
Sonoma County
U.S. sanctuary cities
(A partial list)
Anchorage, Alaska
Hartford, Conn.
Chicago
Portland, Maine
Baltimore
Boston
Ann Arbor, Mich.
Detroit
Minneapolis
St. Paul, Minn.
St. Louis
Newark, N.J.
New York
Philadelphia
Austin, Texas
Houston
Seattle
Madison, Wis.
Sanctuary states
Alaska
District of Columbia
Montana
New Mexico
Oregon
Avoid the risk of arrest and move to these identified sanctuary states and cities. Really. Utah is a state of law abiding people, and we do have a problem with people who flaunt our laws, like you illegal aliens. However, Utah is also a compassionate state and with that in mind, we encourage you to move and commit all the crime and violence you want in the below listed locations. These locations and people could careless what you do, unlike Utahns who would rather younot deal drugs, murder little girls, run like rapid dogs in gangs, mark your territory with spray paint, take our tax money, or in any other way take advantage of our citizens. So please, pack up your things and move to any of these locations:
California sanctuaries
Berkeley
East Palo Alto
Fresno
Garden Grove (Orange County)
Los Angeles
Oakland
Richmond
San Diego
San Francisco
San Jose
San Rafael
Santa Cruz
Watsonville
Sonoma County
U.S. sanctuary cities
(A partial list)
Anchorage, Alaska
Hartford, Conn.
Chicago
Portland, Maine
Baltimore
Boston
Ann Arbor, Mich.
Detroit
Minneapolis
St. Paul, Minn.
St. Louis
Newark, N.J.
New York
Philadelphia
Austin, Texas
Houston
Seattle
Madison, Wis.
Sanctuary states
Alaska
District of Columbia
Montana
New Mexico
Oregon
@DahktaD - Why did you say Montana? I am from Montana and we do care about those kinda things. There is far less crime in the news up there then there is down here!
@Mrs.Sparkles - We have drunken bar fights but not too many dogsled drive by shootings. I think Utah is one of the worst ones on the list, right after LA
@Mrs.Sparkles - actually I got the list from the San Francisco Chronicle. Guess there is more going on than sheep up there in Montana.
Deport them all who come here illegally! I am tired of getting harassed by mexicans who feel it is there right to be here. It is sad that a little girl has died, but when a repeat border crosser comes over here to commit a crime, it is time to clean house!
@Avatar - and for whoever voted offtopic, the accused drive was to be deported for being here illegally. We have too many here that need to go back. We have to send them back, one at a time, we can do it. When our govenrment tells us we cant afford it, ask them how many more children have to die because of it, and what price do we put on that? We also cant afford the war in Iraq, but we are doing that too. A bus at a time, we can do it. Lets push for it to be done. They also thought Chris Cannon wouldn't be voted out, we did that too! We have to start and get our towns and cities back! We have enough of our own citizens that break the laws, we don't need other countries hoodlums to boot!
Most problems have solutions. This one is too big for the average citizen to solve. The state doesn't want to solve it, churches embrace it, the federal gov looks the other way, so you have what you have. If you think about it, how could the United States allow such travesty within its own borders and absorb the problems that come with illegal immigration at this level? It's insane but it is our reality today and the reality of our children tomorrow.
here's how to deal with the gangs of any color;
In the movie Tombstone there was a band (gang) of cowboys. They wore a red sash, W. Earp said "I see a red sash, I kill the man wearing it". History records the cowboy's broke up and never got together again. If the gang-bangers start dying, they will leave. They think nothing of killing innocent people we need to fight fire with fire.
In the movie Tombstone there was a band (gang) of cowboys. They wore a red sash, W. Earp said "I see a red sash, I kill the man wearing it". History records the cowboy's broke up and never got together again. If the gang-bangers start dying, they will leave. They think nothing of killing innocent people we need to fight fire with fire.
it hard to belive a lil incent girl is dead, and the shooter are youg punks they want to play as adults then need pay as adults the law need to be chenaged look at the sex offender law they want to put them a way for life, let put the trigger pulling punk in prision for life, give the the death penaty, what a killer get 1-15 in the prision get out and does it agin, come on CHANGE THE LAW, if you want to gang Bang, then you should be charged as a adult, lock the f_c_e_r_ up for life
Open the borders and let em all come in full force, enjoy, tear it up! and all of us americans will just move to mexico since its about empty now anyway.
Tragic, I can’t even begin to comprehend the unimaginable pain for the family. As for the suspects I have no feeling. They will get their due process in the Courts. I hope the DA sets an example of this. Salt Lake County in general waited for too long to take aggressive action on the gangs in Utah, KSL check your archives I remember seeing a news story some 15 years ago with the Los Angeles Police department telling Utah they had an artery for gangs moving in, it was called I-15 who heeded this call? I think most Utahans would be shocked to realize that some children are being raised by gang members, perpetual cycle that LA has been battling for 30 or more years. Utah made their bed by being asleep at the wheel. It’s not too late, it’s gonna be expensive. The police present needs to be in such high profile in known areas, Salt Lake County needs a true Metro Police agency that is not bound by jurisdiction from city to city. Mayor Workman sold off Multimillion Helicopters to the Department of public safety that now is hardly used to suppress crime. Utah has only begun to feel its going pains. Crime perpetrated by these cockroaches needs to be dealt with harsh punishment. This is the call we citizens demand!!
Why is it when you hear of a hispanic you people think ILLEGAL. And complain about immigration. Well, guys hate to tell you all once again. Your ancestors all came here illegaly. Man I wish us NATIVES had the power to deport them! SO quit complaining about illegal immigration, cause all of you have no room to talk. GO back to Germany, England etc etc.
@czamb - My parents have THEIR immigration papers to prove they did it LEGALLY so I have every right to complain about all the illegals that come here. Not everyone that complains did it illegally, so I have PLENTY of room to talk, whare are YOUR papers???
@Genebuster - I'm Native American you fool! I don't need papers! And yes the europeans did come here and destroy this land ILLEGALY! Do you know your history?
@czamb - The Europeans CONQUERED North America. Thats it. Now the Illegal Immigrants are doing the same thing albeit in a less violent manner. And those who are citizens are powerless to stop it. Now another question. CZAMB my ancestors havelived here for 200+ years so that makes me a Native American. See I was born here, have never even stepped foot in another country (minus Kuwait and Iraq)so I am as native as anyone. My ancestors just got here a little later than yours.
@czamb - "Native" Americans ALSO immigrated here thousands of years ago from Asia, and your tribes were fighting each other for land, killing each other right up until the white man came here. The point is, who really has the right to say their ancestors didn't come here illegally?
The europeans did wrong to your people, I definitely agree, and I respect your people. However, to say that europeans destroyed this country is wrong. Europeans have made this country into the greatest country that has ever existed. I know a lot of Native Americans who also don't like the hostile invastion from Mexico, especially the fact that mexicans claim a native American heritage and claim a right to this land, even though their ancestors from Spain raped and pillaged the natives.
The europeans did wrong to your people, I definitely agree, and I respect your people. However, to say that europeans destroyed this country is wrong. Europeans have made this country into the greatest country that has ever existed. I know a lot of Native Americans who also don't like the hostile invastion from Mexico, especially the fact that mexicans claim a native American heritage and claim a right to this land, even though their ancestors from Spain raped and pillaged the natives.
@czamb - perhaps you are either disingenuous or dull.
We are not suggesting a correlation between "Hispanics" and "Illegals"; but rather between "Violent Hispanics" and "Illegal status".
A logical corollary to the statement "Hispanics who commit violent crimes are probably illegal immigrants" is "Legal Hispanic immigrants are less likely to commit violent crime than illegal Hispanics." If the first statement is true, the second is also, and visa versa. Those who proclaim the first statement to be "false", are equivalently claiming the second statement to be false also.
Those who insist that it is presumptive to assert that "an Hispanic who commits a violent crime is likely illegal" are, in effect, asserting that legal Hispanics immigrants are just a likely to commit violent crimes as are their illegal counterparts.
I do not believe for a minute that our legal Hispanics immigrant neighbors are as likely to commit crime as their illegal counterparts. Do you?
We are not suggesting a correlation between "Hispanics" and "Illegals"; but rather between "Violent Hispanics" and "Illegal status".
A logical corollary to the statement "Hispanics who commit violent crimes are probably illegal immigrants" is "Legal Hispanic immigrants are less likely to commit violent crime than illegal Hispanics." If the first statement is true, the second is also, and visa versa. Those who proclaim the first statement to be "false", are equivalently claiming the second statement to be false also.
Those who insist that it is presumptive to assert that "an Hispanic who commits a violent crime is likely illegal" are, in effect, asserting that legal Hispanics immigrants are just a likely to commit violent crimes as are their illegal counterparts.
I do not believe for a minute that our legal Hispanics immigrant neighbors are as likely to commit crime as their illegal counterparts. Do you?
what kind of coward would shoot even toward a little girl. they should hand these cowards over to the families..
@raiderette - or are the majority of crimes reported on the news committed by minorities/hispanics? I don't think we've seen anything yet when it comes to the influx of immigrants, illegal or other wise, by the folks to the south. We better get use to it, buck up and simply aggressively enforce all current laws period.
@wangus45 - We need to enforce laws. I certainly don't agree with illegal immigration...just ask any native american. But, I do disagree about the crimes committed are mostly minorities. In Utah, however, minorites are not the majority. Cause here is mostly white. Go back East, and its mostly black. So you are wrong.
I am from Los Angeles and have been in Utah for almost three years. I continue to see the words "illegal immagrant" amongst many comments posted here. Yet I notice that those words are both directly and indirectly refering to Hispanics only. Although many crimes are committed by minorities, it is ignorant of anyone to state that it is because of only "illegal immagrants". This is impossible because the country in its entirety is mostly white. In LA the Russians are very well know for being associated with organized crime, as are the Mexcians, yet we don't hear about white gang crime.
The few years I have been in Utah I have heard of a man openfire in the Trolley square mall, he was a legal immagrant as I recall and not of hispanic descent. I remember the young man who murdered his mother, white again. Let's not forget Destiny Norton, who was sexually assualted and murdered by a 20 year old, again a young white male. But I suppose Charles has nothing against these people or their crimes since they were white. I assume this because he never mentions these incidents when making ad hominem statements toward hispanics.
How easily we run to blame illegals for the failures of our own societies. The structures of the "failed cultures" as Charles puts it, is also to blame on our government. Because politicians gain no contributions from these low income neigborhoods, they turn their backs on these people. Moreover, illegals can not gain any support from the system, i.e. welfare. For someone to receive welfare they MUST have a valid SSN. If not, they are readily turned away and denied.
Although I do agree with Charles that these crimes are bad and some are committed by illegal immagrants, the fact is that most aren't. They are a peice of the problem but by far not the whole of it. Also, the DOJ doesn't catagorize crimes by immigration status, only by race, age and gender. Go look on the DOJ site.
I am glad we get to have these discussions and that some of us are allowed to be so close minded. I just wish some of you saw what is outside of Utah. Utah is by far not half as bad as LA. There you're lucky if you make the news for these sort of crimes.
I am sure that I will be riddled with messages of hate and disagreement, however, when you do post your hate message, just remember how much you hate hearing the truth. That all "american" ancestors came here illegally and that the actually NATIVE AMERICANS were forcefully removed and killed for their land, which is now the US. I am not anti-anything especially not Anti-American since I AM ONE. But we really need to accept our faults as well. Hope to hear from all.
LOVE TO ALL!
The few years I have been in Utah I have heard of a man openfire in the Trolley square mall, he was a legal immagrant as I recall and not of hispanic descent. I remember the young man who murdered his mother, white again. Let's not forget Destiny Norton, who was sexually assualted and murdered by a 20 year old, again a young white male. But I suppose Charles has nothing against these people or their crimes since they were white. I assume this because he never mentions these incidents when making ad hominem statements toward hispanics.
How easily we run to blame illegals for the failures of our own societies. The structures of the "failed cultures" as Charles puts it, is also to blame on our government. Because politicians gain no contributions from these low income neigborhoods, they turn their backs on these people. Moreover, illegals can not gain any support from the system, i.e. welfare. For someone to receive welfare they MUST have a valid SSN. If not, they are readily turned away and denied.
Although I do agree with Charles that these crimes are bad and some are committed by illegal immagrants, the fact is that most aren't. They are a peice of the problem but by far not the whole of it. Also, the DOJ doesn't catagorize crimes by immigration status, only by race, age and gender. Go look on the DOJ site.
I am glad we get to have these discussions and that some of us are allowed to be so close minded. I just wish some of you saw what is outside of Utah. Utah is by far not half as bad as LA. There you're lucky if you make the news for these sort of crimes.
I am sure that I will be riddled with messages of hate and disagreement, however, when you do post your hate message, just remember how much you hate hearing the truth. That all "american" ancestors came here illegally and that the actually NATIVE AMERICANS were forcefully removed and killed for their land, which is now the US. I am not anti-anything especially not Anti-American since I AM ONE. But we really need to accept our faults as well. Hope to hear from all.
LOVE TO ALL!
@johndanger - DOJ has commissioned studies to look at the impact on crime by illegal aliens. Those studies show that illegal aliens commit a grossly disproportionate share of violent crime. The studies also show that the vast majority of illegal aliens who commit violent crimes are Hispanic, and that the vast majority of those are Mexican nationals.
I don't have the citation with me at the moment, but will post it here sometime late this afternoon.
As an aside, I get your point about Europeans displacing Native Americans. However, since Native Americans had no immigration laws, the Europeans, technically, didn't "violate immigration laws" and cannot be labeled 'illegal'. "Invaders", yes; but not "illegal". If you disagree, please show me the law that they violated. Native American's had tribal governance and while they had a sense of territorial privilege, they also had a custom of territorial rights by force of arms (kind of like gangs). "Our gang" was simply better organized and armed than theirs.
Besides, are you suggesting equivalency between the European invasion of the Americas and a Mexican invasion of the Southwest? Or, i.e., are you suggesting that we are in a state of war with Mexican invaders (who, I might add, are not Native Americans at all, but are descendants of fellow-Europeans)?
I don't have the citation with me at the moment, but will post it here sometime late this afternoon.
As an aside, I get your point about Europeans displacing Native Americans. However, since Native Americans had no immigration laws, the Europeans, technically, didn't "violate immigration laws" and cannot be labeled 'illegal'. "Invaders", yes; but not "illegal". If you disagree, please show me the law that they violated. Native American's had tribal governance and while they had a sense of territorial privilege, they also had a custom of territorial rights by force of arms (kind of like gangs). "Our gang" was simply better organized and armed than theirs.
Besides, are you suggesting equivalency between the European invasion of the Americas and a Mexican invasion of the Southwest? Or, i.e., are you suggesting that we are in a state of war with Mexican invaders (who, I might add, are not Native Americans at all, but are descendants of fellow-Europeans)?
@Revilo - http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05337r.pdf
The information in the second reference surprised me. The GAO estimates that illegal immigrants constituted roughly only 2.8% of the total population in the US; yet they constituted 27% of the population in our federal prisons. The report goes on to say that the vast majority of the 27% are Mexican nationals.
Not only is there a correlation between illegal immigration status and serious crime - it is an overwhelmingly strong correlation proving that illegal aliens commit a disproportionate share of crime; and it is worse than I ever imagined.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05337r.pdf
The information in the second reference surprised me. The GAO estimates that illegal immigrants constituted roughly only 2.8% of the total population in the US; yet they constituted 27% of the population in our federal prisons. The report goes on to say that the vast majority of the 27% are Mexican nationals.
Not only is there a correlation between illegal immigration status and serious crime - it is an overwhelmingly strong correlation proving that illegal aliens commit a disproportionate share of crime; and it is worse than I ever imagined.
@Revilo - I need to credit the whole previous post to "Resom". I lifted it out of an older thread and pasted it; but accidentally submitted it before I could cite my source.
I have an interesting post from somebody named "eompr" or something like that which I'm looking for. His contained all sorts of statistics from a variety of sources. I'll post that too, if I can find it.
I have an interesting post from somebody named "eompr" or something like that which I'm looking for. His contained all sorts of statistics from a variety of sources. I'll post that too, if I can find it.
@Revilo - The average illegal immigrant in our federal prison system has committed roughly 10 times as many known crimes as the average inmate who is a US citizen.
That fact, coupled with the fact that they comprise 27% of the federal prison population indicates that illegal aliens are responsible for roughly 78% of known crimes. And the vast majority of them are Mexican nationals.
Statistically speaking, it is accurate to presume that a given Hispanic criminal is likely illegal, and almost surely a Mexican national.
That fact, coupled with the fact that they comprise 27% of the federal prison population indicates that illegal aliens are responsible for roughly 78% of known crimes. And the vast majority of them are Mexican nationals.
Statistically speaking, it is accurate to presume that a given Hispanic criminal is likely illegal, and almost surely a Mexican national.
@Revilo - $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report:
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf
"The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States".
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html
Every day 12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien. Another 13 Americans are killed by uninsured drunk illegal aliens and Eight American Children are victims of a sex crime committed by an illegal alien each day! (Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore.) http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html
Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates. These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population. Incarceration of criminal aliens cost an estimated $624 million to state prisons (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002), according to the most recent available figure from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters0b9c
Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens which translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens (Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa)
Eight American children are victims of sexual abuse by illegal aliens every day
a total of 2,920 annually. (Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa)
95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.
75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix,and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally..
48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
29% (630,000) of convicted illegal aliens in state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually.
More than 53% of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.
More than half of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.
More than 43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens.
More than 41% of all unemployment checks issued in the United States are to illegal aliens.
62% of all undocumented immigrants in the United States are working for cash and not paying taxes, predominantly illegal aliens, working without a green card.
Illegal aliens make up 32% of State & Federal Prison populations (FNC O Reilly Factor)
There are an estimated 240,000 illegal alien sexual predators currently in the USA (Violent Crimes Institute - May 2006)
Over 1,000,000 sexual crimes are estimated to have been committed in the USA over the past seven years by illegal aliens (Violent Crimes Institute - May 2006)
90% of all crime in Brooks County Texas is committed by illegal aliens (Brooks County Sheriff s Department April 2006)
Numerous law enforcement officers have been beaten, stabbed and shot by illegal aliens over the past few years
o Officer Rodney Johnson, 40, Houston, Texas
o Officer Brian Jackson, 28, Dallas, Texas
o Deputy Brandon "Brandy" Winfield, 29, of the Marion County, Ohio
o Detective Hugo Arango, 24, of the Doroville, Ga
o Deputy Saul Gallegos, 35, of the Chelan County, Wash.,
o Deputy Sheriff David March, 33, of the Los Angeles County
o Officer Tony Zeppetella, 27, of the Oceanside, Calif
o Officer Daniel Howard Golden, 27, Huntsville, Ala
o And Dozens More...
Source Post by eotpr on 21 Mar 2007
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report:
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf
"The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States".
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html
Every day 12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien. Another 13 Americans are killed by uninsured drunk illegal aliens and Eight American Children are victims of a sex crime committed by an illegal alien each day! (Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore.) http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html
Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates. These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population. Incarceration of criminal aliens cost an estimated $624 million to state prisons (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002), according to the most recent available figure from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters0b9c
Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens which translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens (Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa)
Eight American children are victims of sexual abuse by illegal aliens every day
a total of 2,920 annually. (Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa)
95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.
75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix,and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally..
48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
29% (630,000) of convicted illegal aliens in state and federal prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually.
More than 53% of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.
More than half of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.
More than 43% of all Food Stamps issued are to illegal aliens.
More than 41% of all unemployment checks issued in the United States are to illegal aliens.
62% of all undocumented immigrants in the United States are working for cash and not paying taxes, predominantly illegal aliens, working without a green card.
Illegal aliens make up 32% of State & Federal Prison populations (FNC O Reilly Factor)
There are an estimated 240,000 illegal alien sexual predators currently in the USA (Violent Crimes Institute - May 2006)
Over 1,000,000 sexual crimes are estimated to have been committed in the USA over the past seven years by illegal aliens (Violent Crimes Institute - May 2006)
90% of all crime in Brooks County Texas is committed by illegal aliens (Brooks County Sheriff s Department April 2006)
Numerous law enforcement officers have been beaten, stabbed and shot by illegal aliens over the past few years
o Officer Rodney Johnson, 40, Houston, Texas
o Officer Brian Jackson, 28, Dallas, Texas
o Deputy Brandon "Brandy" Winfield, 29, of the Marion County, Ohio
o Detective Hugo Arango, 24, of the Doroville, Ga
o Deputy Saul Gallegos, 35, of the Chelan County, Wash.,
o Deputy Sheriff David March, 33, of the Los Angeles County
o Officer Tony Zeppetella, 27, of the Oceanside, Calif
o Officer Daniel Howard Golden, 27, Huntsville, Ala
o And Dozens More...
Source Post by eotpr on 21 Mar 2007
If we enforced the borders this sweet young girl would not be dead!
Shame on those that support illegal immigration. Will you pay to help bury this innocent victim of illegal immigration?
You can claim that I hate but you are the one with blood on your hands.
Shame on those that support illegal immigration. Will you pay to help bury this innocent victim of illegal immigration?
You can claim that I hate but you are the one with blood on your hands.
before reading your post I was thinking exactly the same thing in regards to the other homicide cases that have captured the attention of our city. The point is is that a young and beautiful girl was tragically taken away from her family and friends. Regardless of WHO shot her - it is tragic all the same. Regardless of where they (suspects) came from the tragedy ends the same - a child is lost. It can happen in any community, rich, poor, white, not white, etc, etc...I think you should all get the point. Instead, the majority of the comments here immediately turn to racist posts and propaganda in which none of you are intelligent enough to put aside for one moment. Simply childish and stupid on the part of those wanting to blame one race over another. The fact is that the suspects are incarcerated - thank goodness! and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent in which the law allows. Don't worry - they will definetely get and deserve what is coming for them. Putting this all aside, however, I mourn for the family of this beautiful child. Too bad that many of you aren't adult enough to put differences of opinion aside and pull together as a community. Fact is, it could most certainly be one of our children next. God Bless this child and her family. You are in my prayers!
@Rebecca D. - It's so tragic what happened. The problem is, (and its not a race thing) so many of our youth today, have no regard for one another. This world is raising a group of selfish, inconsiderate losers. Its not an illegal problem, its the worlds problem.... White, black, yellow, brown and red.
I cant believe that someone has the nerve to bring up immigration after such a tragic event. Whomever thinks that this event is the right forum, is a heartless coward. Remember that a 7 year old girl lost her life, and anybody that brings up illegal aliens is a spineless rat.
@jmg - Why? This little girl's murder has everything to do with foreign nationals and illegal immmigration. The perpetrator Benevides, has been arrested before for violence with a firearm and was deported to Mexico...last year matter of fact. Now he is back and murders a young hispanic girl. Like it or not, this is an immigration issue that must be addressed. We cannot carry on, ignoring the fact there is a tremendous increase in violent crime in minority neighborhoods and it is directly related to immigration.
Until the Salt Lake City police steps up to the plate and with a concerted effort with other law enforcement agencies, like ICE, to attack these foreign national gangsters, things will only get worse.
Until the Salt Lake City police steps up to the plate and with a concerted effort with other law enforcement agencies, like ICE, to attack these foreign national gangsters, things will only get worse.
@jmg - this innocent, beautiful, young light was extinguished by a cold-blooded illegal alien with a long criminal history who was able to get through our porous borders and import his particular brand of hatred and violence into our city and state.
I've little tolerance for myopic fools who insist upon pretending that illegal immigration has nothing to do with this tragic, sad and AVOIDABLE crime (and thousands more just like it).
Every crime has elements of motive and opportunity and they are both legitimate discussion topics. Why did this guy have the "Opportunity" to act on his motives? Hmmmm? Why do you think it is ok to talk about the criminal motive, but not the element of opportunity? This particular subhuman had opportunity BECAUSE we've failed to properly secure our borders. That is a materially relevant fact in this crime and is a condition that is due to heartless, spineless fools who continue to hide their heads in the sand: fostering tolerance for illegal immigration.
Pretending that the illegal immigration problem is somehow only tangential to this crime, when it is the critical enabling aspect behind "opportunity", is the real mark of a heartless coward and spineless rat.
I've little tolerance for myopic fools who insist upon pretending that illegal immigration has nothing to do with this tragic, sad and AVOIDABLE crime (and thousands more just like it).
Every crime has elements of motive and opportunity and they are both legitimate discussion topics. Why did this guy have the "Opportunity" to act on his motives? Hmmmm? Why do you think it is ok to talk about the criminal motive, but not the element of opportunity? This particular subhuman had opportunity BECAUSE we've failed to properly secure our borders. That is a materially relevant fact in this crime and is a condition that is due to heartless, spineless fools who continue to hide their heads in the sand: fostering tolerance for illegal immigration.
Pretending that the illegal immigration problem is somehow only tangential to this crime, when it is the critical enabling aspect behind "opportunity", is the real mark of a heartless coward and spineless rat.
This is tragic.
It will happen again and again and will continue to be commited by hispanic/mexican gangs.
Do the math.
It will happen again and again and will continue to be commited by hispanic/mexican gangs.
Do the math.
To all legal or not legal immigrants and irresponsible legals...regardless of who you are or where you originated from…you are in America now. Please, let go of your selfish ideas about enemies and revenge. Rise above those destroying behaviors and enjoy your freedom in the greatest country in the world! Doesn't every man and woman come to America for a better life? Well, here you are...it is your own responsibility to make it a better life.
@appleaday - Not all immigrants come to be Americans, although that's what immigrants of old did. The new wave of immigrants from mexico come here to sell our kids drugs, or "work" the system and mooch all the freebies they can off us (free education, WIC, welfare, emergency room care, citizenship for anchor babies). Either that, or they believe they are entitled to come here and "re-take" this land because they feel they are entitled to it. Most of them hate America and Americans, and are just here to get what they can off of us, because WE LET THEM do it. It's time to stop the madness.
How long are we going to stand by and let crap like this happen? We out number these scumbag gangbangers tremendously. They could never stand up to a combined effort of american citizens ready to wipe them off the map. When you see this suspicious gang activity, call your friends and neighbors and lets start pushing back. It wouldnt take them long to start looking for easier pickings and move on.
@Hilbili - ....... have the judges and the parole board on their side. There is a revolving door that lets these animals back out on the street time after time to victimize decent society.
No one wants to deal with the illegal alien problem and we are being flooded by those who are no longer welcome in Arizona.
Our beloved ex-mayor, Ross Anderson, would not permit the Salt Lake City Police Department to join a task force with the feds to detain illegals.
In answer to your question, Hilbili, I believe the answer to your question is that we will always tolerate this behavior until the criminal element destroys our way of life entirely.
No one wants to deal with the illegal alien problem and we are being flooded by those who are no longer welcome in Arizona.
Our beloved ex-mayor, Ross Anderson, would not permit the Salt Lake City Police Department to join a task force with the feds to detain illegals.
In answer to your question, Hilbili, I believe the answer to your question is that we will always tolerate this behavior until the criminal element destroys our way of life entirely.
I DONT KNOW WHAT THE REST OF YOU THINK OR WHAT YOU KNOW WHERE YOU GET YOUR INFO OR WHERE YOUR APINION COMES FROM BUT I LIVE ON 800 SOUTH AND 800 WEST AND WHAT HAPPINDED TO THAT LITTLE GIRL IS SAD BUT IST A FEAR THAT EVERY ONE ON THIS SIDE OF TOWN HAS TO LIVE WITH AL WE CAN DO IS TRY TO KEEP OURS SAFE WHAT YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THIS WAS AIMED AT SOME ONE ELS AND THE LITTLE GIRL WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF IT ALL WE NEED TO GIVE OUR KIDS SOMETHING BETTER THEN GANGS IN SLC ON THE WEST SIDE OF TOWN AND I DONT MEAN JUST GLENDALE I MEAN FROM 2100 SOUTH TO 1500 NORTH AND FROM STATE T0 2100 WEST THERE IS GANG ACTIVITE ALOVER PEOPLE SAY ITS JUST THE BROWN AND ITS JUST THE MEXICANS THAT DO THIS WELL IS SOME CASES IT IT BUT THERE IS A LOT MORE THEN JUST THAT IN THIS SIDE OF TOWN THERE I THE SURENIOS,NORTHENIOS,TCG,QVOS,BLOODS CRIPS,CAM,LATIN KINGSAND THERE IS ATLEAST THREE OR FOUR MORE THAT I COULD NAME BUT ITS NOT IMPORTANT WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS GIVING OUR KIDS IN THE AREA SOMETHING BETTER TO DO AND LETTING THEM KNOW THAT IT OK TO BE FRIENDS WITH OTHER RACES GROWING UP YOU ALWAYS KEPT TO YOUR OWN PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY HAD YOUR BACK IF THEY SEEN YOU IN TROUABLE THEY WERE THERE FOR YOU THAT DONT MAKE IT A GANG BUT THAT IS WHAT STARTS IT HATE THIS SIDE OF TOWN IS FULL OF SO MANY DIFFERENT KINDS PEOPLE AND INSTEAD OF COMING TOGETHER WE FIGHT WITH ONE ANOTHER UNTIL THIS HATE STOPS THERE WILL NEVER BE PEACE
[Please don't shout with ALL CAPS.]
[Please don't shout with ALL CAPS.]
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7:45am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
8:06am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
8:23am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Your comment about jobs being vacated by baby boomers is definitely bogus. We are currently in a recession and more people are being laid off than hired.
Let the good folks from Mexico find employment in their own country.
8:27am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I'm afraid that until the community and the PD starts taking a proactive approach to gangs, it will only get worse. Pointing fingers at one ethnicity will do NOTHING...there are gang members of all ethnic persuasions and one is no better than the other....wake up people!
8:35am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
9:12am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
That some illegal aliens are involved in another violent crime? OR,
That KSL once again declines to provide a full and accurate description of violent crime suspects?
9:35am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Then send them my way. Hunting season is coming and I need target practice...
3:05pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
5:42pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
'Tail.
6:21pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
7:31pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
9:54pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
11:32am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
12:22pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Immigration status matters a LOT.
We have no choice but to deal with our own, home grown scum.
But we have every right to exclude the criminal element from the rest of the worse.
12:27pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
1:16pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Illegal aliens make up less than 10% of our population: some 20 million out of a total population of 300 million persons.
However, 27% of the total population in all U.S. prison systems (including city, county, state and federal) is composed of criminal aliens. With 2 million people now in US prisons, that means some 540,000 illegal aliens are sitting in our prisons and most often for the commission of crimes far and beyond "mere" immigration offenses. At an average cost of $40k per year per prison inmate, that meas we are spending $21 Billion (with a B) per year each and every year on prison costs for illegal aliens. The border fence is around $4 Billion to build or less than 3 months worth of prison costs.
Looks to me like removing this 10% from our population eliminates upwards of 30% of our serious crime and the costs associated with housing the criminals who commit it.
Then consider the other costs. Higher medical bills for all of us to cover the unpaid ER bills of illegal aliens. The cost of crime. Over crowded schools. And so on.
"On average each day 25 Americans die at the hands of criminal aliens in the United States. Twelve Americans are murdered by criminal aliens. Another ten Americans are killed by drunk-driving criminal aliens. Finally, an additional three Americans will die because of negligent homicides by criminal aliens, such as running a red light, speeding, or the negligent handling of a dangerous weapon."
1:41pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
1:48pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
2:34pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
But what do you propose instead? Ever more generous welfare programs (by whatever name) so we can encourage even more criminals to enter our nation illegally? How long do you figure we can keep THAT up?
2:39pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
2:45pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Look, I'm all in favor of punishing employers who deliberately hire illegals. Will you join me in pushing to repeal laws that make it expensive and dangerous for employers to deny employment when they suspect documents are forged? Or maybe support laws requiring that existing e-verify systems to be used to at least confirm that the age, name, sex, and SSN presented all match each other. That at least prevents middle age men from stealing IDs from toddlers.
And I'm all in favor a very harsh penalties for ID theft. How far you willing to go on that one? I'm right there with you and then some.
But there is no reason to do these things "first." They should be done at the same time we secure the border and beef up interior enforcement.
Every cop, teacher, doctor, nurse, and day care provider in this nation is LEGALLY OBLIGATED to report ANY and ALL suspected cases of child abuse/neglect. How about we require those persons to ALSO report ANY and ALL suspected cases of immigration violation?
And if you oppose this last one, try to explain to me why mandated reporting of suspected child abuse is a good thing, but mandated reporting of illegal immigration is not.
3:12pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
9:04pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
1:22pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
2:31pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke.
3:08pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
11:20am - Wed Jul 09th, 2008
6:46pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
12:37pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
1:12pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
1:25pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Let me guess what you won't support:
Teaching children that having sex before marriage is not only risky on a number of fronts but fundamentally WRONG;
Eliminating the welfare and other incentives that reward young women for getting pregnant out of wedlock;
Imposing HARSH penalties on criminals rather than blaming society for the choices criminals make.
Rachael, I will not be at all surprised to learn that some, even many of those involved directly in this shooting were citizens (I wonder how many were anchor babies of illegals). But the fact remains, without the critical mass of illegal aliens, and the flow of drugs through open borders, gangs in Utah would be largely crippled. Critical mass dear. Look it up and learn something.
2:05pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
2:40pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Anyone can throw rocks at others' ideas as not good enough. But you've yet to suggest any real specifics yourself.
What do YOU think will reduce violent and gang crime?
2:56pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
You just bring up premarital sex and activist judges...which is really irrelevent.
3:03pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I believe heavier penalties for gang activity (including for juvies involved in gangs) are critical. I think gang units among the PD and proper education for and awareness on the part of parents, teachers, pastors, and others is vital. We AGREE on these points.
I happen to believe that intact marriages and fewer illegitimate births would be even more effective than community centers in the long run. YOU dismiss these fundamental social issues as "irrelevant" or worse.
I also believe that solving our illegal alien problem is ONE critical component of fighting violent and drug related crimes including gang activity. You refuse to even consider such measures as part of the effort.
So who is it that is refusing to think about options?
3:52pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
There are plenty of gang members who have both parents in the home.
4:37pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
4:38pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
3:59pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Perhaps the solution to Utah's illegal alien problem would be to ship them San Francisco where they have established a safe haven for them.
4:08pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I'm really not speaking about Cali in terms of the illegal immigration issue - i was speaking about San Jose in terms of how they reduced the gang crimes...
7:26pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
California is going to drown in red ink within a few short years, and the illegal aliens they are supporting are only making matters worse.
11:28am - Tue Jul 08th, 2008
1:25pm - Thu Jul 10th, 2008
11:41am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
9:47am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
10:04am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
10:12am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
11:37am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I shave my head...but I dont have a goatee, so I guess I have immunity from guilt of criminal behavior...cause I dont have a goatee. I guess I will be automatically cleared of any charges by simple minded people who need to lump lifes challenges into categories of perpetrators.
12:23pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Like they have said in prior messages, This is about that young girl.
I have deepheartfely sarrow for this seven year old girls family. I can not imagine their loss.
Respectfully...
12:30pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
2:46pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Illegal aliens are criminals, by definition. They do no respect our nation's laws or sovereignty.
I have NO problem with legal immigrants. God bless 'em. I have a problem with criminals.
3:41pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
3:58pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
8:04pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
11:59pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
This is why our country continues to struggle with progress because of people like you with your ideas about race and crime. Yes, there is a connection between the two. Does that mean we should judge the entire race based off a few bad apples?
Get Real!
10:02pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
2:39pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Special interest groups are tearing our economy apart. Illegal immigrants are the cause for many things, but the economy that they are a part of, really is the lowest in the country. Place the blame where it needs to be.
Rest in peace to the 7-year old girl and may her family be comforted by their loved ones.
8:30am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
9:12am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
However, even if we accept your premise about 95%, that leaves a VERY PROLIFIC and violent 5% who MUST be excluded. But with our current de facto open border policy and lack of interior enforcement, we have no choice but accept the bad with the good.
We must secure the border, cut off all benefits to illegal aliens, and get serious about interior enforcement.
Tall fences can (and in many cases probably should) have wide gates. We need to accept and admit the good. But we must be able to protect ourselves from the bad.
And so long as there are so many bad, who are so prolific, they cast a pall on the good immigrants. Border security and proper interior enforcement not only benefits native born citizens, but would also be of great benefit to law abiding immigrants and future law-abiding immigrants. The decrease in crime, welfare burden, and other social costs that border security and interior enforcement would bring would most certainly reduce hatred and bigotry and opposition to legal immigration.
9:20am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Blame the employers, who are the ones supporting these illegals' entry into the US.
But no. It's easier to blame the illegals for coming here, than figuring out the root cause and doing something about it.
9:29am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Cost is NOT an issue. Politics are. Including those of you who refuse to hold illegal aliens responsible for their own conduct.
Certainly, businesses (and owners, HR directors, and other INDIVIDUALS) who deliberately hire illegal aliens should be charged. But current law makes it difficult and potentially illegal and costly for businesses not to hire someone they merely suspect is an illegal alien. Banks and other lenders are not allowed to report persons who present bad SS numbers. They just have to keep running credit checks on whatever number is presented.
Illegals come here for a lot of reasons. Some noble, some not so worthy. Some may be enticed by promises of big money and a better life. But at the end of the day, it is the ILLEGALS themselves who make the choice to come.
We can't fix the corruption, violence, and low standard of living that the hispanic culture seems to foster in those nations where it dominates.
We can and should hold employers responsible for deliberate or grossly negligent violation of our laws. We can and should shut off all welfare benefits. We can and should require hospitals, doctors, teachers, and others to report suspected violation of our immigration laws just as we require them to report suspected cases of child abuse.
Such measures would result in large numbers of illegal aliens voluntarily deporting themselves. Consider who poor nations like Mexico were able to "deport" millions of people to our nation? Certainly, we can afford to take the measures necessary to reverse that process.
But we must ALSO never minimize the responsibility held by those who CHOOSE to violate our immigration laws. Illegal aliens must be deported when they come to the attention of law enforcement.
12:55pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
1:28pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I'd like to see them build that fence. It won't work. But it will force the pro-fence people to start thinking of a REAL solution.
2:09pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I think the fence is a good idea AND we as a country need to make it easier to come here legally. Mostly, I think we need more people to work in immigration and process the applications faster.
2:09pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
2:24pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Apr 23, 2008 12:45 pm US/Pacific
Feds Scrap $20M 'Virtual Fence' In Ariz.
CBS News Interactive: Immigration And Naturalization
TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) ― "The government is scrapping a $20 million prototype of its highly touted "virtual fence" on the Arizona-Mexico border because the system is failing to adequately alert border patrol agents to illegal crossings, officials said.
The move comes just two months after Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced his approval of the fence built by The Boeing Co. The fence consists of nine electronic surveillance towers along a 28-mile section of border southwest of Tucson."
2:38pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
"In Yuma, at least, the fence seems to be preventing illegal border-crossings.
"Bernacke, the patrol agent, says that since the triple fence was finished in October, there has been a 72 percent decline in illegal migrant apprehensions in the 120-mile swath of the US-Mexican border known as the Yuma sector. Eight hundred people used to be apprehended trying to cross the border here every day. Now, agents catch 50 people or fewer daily. "
2:55pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Dude, things must seem very sunny in that dreamland you prefer to live in...but if you ever manage to pull your head out of that area, you might see the difficulties with what you're suggesting....
3:13pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
20,000 men--fewer than we have on the Korean border, fewer than we have stationed in Germany--would put a man every 1/2 mile for the entire 2,000 mile border, 24/7. That accounts for vacation, holiday time, sick leave, etc. Double it to 40,000 to provide support services, air support, etc and you are at roughly the size of the New York CITY police department (currently at about 38,000 sworn officers PLUS support staff).
At $150,000 total (salary and benefits) which is a lot more than we are paying today, that is a grand total of $6 Billion a year to man the fence, or about 1/3 what we are spending to incarcerate illegal aliens in our prisons. Not only would border security be a LOT cheaper than locking up illegal aliens AFTER the commit crimes, but it would save lives and property damage as well.
Have you EVER run these numbers yourself? Or do you just believe whatever the liberal media and conservative big business owners tell you?
4:21pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
We can build your fence. But as a Liberal I want amnesty for illegals here now.
All my Liberal buddies in Congress will vote for you to have your fence, if all your Conservative buddies will vote for amnesty.
4:41pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
NO AMNESTY. Your family and your life partner will all have to go home and apply for legal entry, smurfette.
But as long as you're handing out amnesty, I'd like to get an amnesty to buy and own all those cool guns you libs have banned over the years. And for all those taxes rich people managed to avoid paying. You up for that? Or do you limit amnesty to little brown people?
4:53pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
3:44pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
A real fence just gets climbed over or tunneled under.
5:17pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
At this point, all the "virtual fence" can do (on a good day) is to tell the non-existant border cops that some Mexicans are crossing...which they're not allowed to do anything about.
11:29am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
They squat in and leech off of our country because we let them do it. It's time to stop the insanity NOW.
12:45pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Federal funded programs. Don't believe me, learn the language and go to the country and hear those who advocate it talk about it to others. Or work as an interpreter for the government programs and you will see first hand. That is the cause and we have to stop it or else we are only going to hurt both the immigrants and this fine country!
12:48pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
9:22am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
9:36am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Not only is there the issue of "critical mass" in organizations like criminal gangs. But there is also the cost/benefit analysis.
I expect that for the cost of convicting ONE citizen gang member of the kind of crime that would lock him up for 25 years, we can convict and deport somewhere between 10 and 100 illegal alien gang members on simple immigration violation charges.
As for the citizens who are gang members, I suspect all we need to do is persuade a few liberals that it is time to get serious and draconian about making life unpleasant for those who choose to associate with criminal gangs.
10:00am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
1:07pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Look there is nothing that can be "given" more to the parasites who join gangs than is already there. Free education K-12, free or low cost medical care, free college for most minorities who bother to learn to read in K-12, and on and on and on.
Look I can't force fathers to stay with their families. I can't force women to avoid getting pregnant until AFTER they are married. And any talk of further welfare reform (or elimination) to remove the economic incentives that allow a 50% illegitimacy rate among some of our minority populations gets me accused of being greedy.
I can't force kids to learn, or to value a traditional western-european education that will allow them earn an honest living. At great expense the taxpayers offer these things for free. But I can't force kids or their parents to value or avail themselves of such things.
As I wrote below, you liberals (including your activist judges) have removed all moral instruction from our schools. You have nearly succeeded in removing all morality from our laws and society. We reap what you have sown. So the only answer is to make crime as unpleasant and unprofitable as possible.
1:21pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Just shrug your shoulders and think we can't do anything else to prevent gangs and the crap that comes along with them...and we'll see how that works out for us...
1:27pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
And also realize that a city that reduces the murder rate from 1000 to 500 per whatever metric has a much more impressive PERCENTAGE improvement than does a city that only reduces murders from 100 to 90 per the same metric. But the second city is still a safer place to live.
2:03pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
But what do they know - they're just a bunch of amoral liberals that made their city a safer place to live for all of its residents and visitors...
2:08pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
3:28pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
You want to talk about crime that has sky rocketed in the last decade - have you been to the bay area lately?
4:01pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
2:03pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
10:34am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Estimates are that we have around 12 million illegal aliens. Most of them causing no problems and are actually a net plus for our economy since they pay into a system which they can not pull money out of. So, we have all these people who are afraid to call police when victimized. Give them a path to citizenship (with fines or whatever) and you suddenly are able to deal better with the pests.
I agree we need to get tough on these creeps. Send them to federal prisons away from their homies. I understand that this is actually happening. Alternatively, we can chain them in work crews in the west desert. No cell phones, no comforts. They can dig footings for their cement bunkers, or just dig holes.
12:31pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
As for being a net plus... replacing them with American workers would be an even greater plus because the money would remain in our country. In 2003, $60 billion was earned by illegals, and of that, $10 billion was sent back.
I don't care if people are afraid to call police when victimized. If you don't feel safe, then move.
Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column
titled, "Mexican Visitor's Lament" -- 10/25/07.
She interviewed Mexican journalist Evangelina Hernandez while visiting
Denver last week. Hernandez said, "They (illegal aliens) pay rent, buy
groceries, buy clothes...What Happens to your country's economy if 20
million people go away?" That's a good question - it deserves an answer.
Over 80 percent of Americans demand secured borders and illegal migration
stopped. But what would happen if all 20 million or more vacated America?
The answers may surprise you!
In California, if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico, it would
leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupt
hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and
less congested.. Everyone could understand one another as Englis h became
the dominant language again.
In Colorado, 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and
grand-kids - would move back 'home', mostly to Mexico. That would save
Coloradans an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 billion) annually
in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration
costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.
Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror
that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don
Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death,
accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.
Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67 percent drop-out/flunk-out rate
because of thousands of illegal alien students speaking 41 different
languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities
in Colorado.
Denver's four percent unemployment rate woul d vanish as our working poor
would gain jobs at a living wage.
In Florida, 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State back to
America, the rule of law, and English.
In Chicago, Illinois, 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals, schools,
prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience.
If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home' --
If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home', the U.S. Economy would return
to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a living
wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they wouldn't be
working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 Billion in
IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for local, state
and city coffers.
No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion in
American schools that now must contend with over 100 languages that degrade
the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose
more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and
free breakfasts and lunches.
We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than
$1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who
distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country.
In cities like L.A., 20,000 members of the '18th Street Gang' would vanish
from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans!
No more foreign rapists and child molesters!
Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded highways and
gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by
illegal aliens!
America's economy is drained. Taxpayers are harmed. Employers get rich. Over
$80 billion annually wouldn't return to the aliens' home countries by cash
transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further
drains America's economy - which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt.
At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us
$109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California,
Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupt out
of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act.
Americans wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases rampant in our
country-brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.
Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid
locking our cities. It would also put the 'progressives' on the horns of a
dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11 percent of our
greenhouse gases..
Over one million of Mexico's poorest citizens now live inside and along our
border from Brownsville, Texas to San Diego, California in what the New York
Times called, "colonias" or new neighborhoods. Trou ble is, those living
areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta where grinding poverty, filth, diseases,
drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean
water, streets, electricity, roads or any kind of sanitation. The New York
Times reported them to be America's new "Third World" inside our own
country. Within 20 years, at their current growth rate, they expect
20 million residents of those colonias. (I've seen them personally in Texas
and Arizona; it's sickening beyond anything you can imagine.) By enforcing
our laws, we could repatriate them back to Mexico.
We should invite 20 million aliens to go home, fix their own countries
and/or make a better life in Mexico. We already invite a million people into
our country legally more than all other countries combined annually. We
cannot and must not allow anarchy at our borders, more anarchy within our
borders and growing lawlessness at every level in our nation It's time to
stand up for our country, our culture, our civilization and our way of life.
Interesting Statistics. Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should vacate
America, and I hope they are forwarded over and over again until they are
read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them:
1. $11 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to
illegal aliens. http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 billion dollars are spent each year on food assistance programs such
as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexechtml
3. $2.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexechtml
4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school
education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of
English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
5. $17 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the
American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor
babies.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars PER DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
7. 30% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
8. $90 billion dollars are spent each year on illegal aliens for welfare &
social services by the American
taxpayers.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
9. $200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by
the illegal
aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and
a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children
are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
11. During the year 2005, there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
terrorist countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine,
and marijuana crossed into the U.S. from the southern border.
http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute estimates that the total cost of mass
deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of
between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/publications.php?b=deportation
13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to
their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes are
committed by illegal immigrants in the United
States!"http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!!
1:08pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
If you're going to CUT and PASTE all your information from websites, you should at least FIX your errors...
6:08pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Since I COPIED and PASTED then they obviously aren't MY errors. Attack the information not the spelling.
7:08pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
However, here is the first problem with your information. Illegal aliens DO pay taxes.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24054024
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?ei=5090&en=78c87ac4641dc383&ex=1270353600&partner=kmarx&pagewanted=all&position
7:36pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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I've read studies that show that most of the crime committed comes from this group, but it is not usually attributed to illegal immigration because of the instant citizenship given to children born here, even if the parents are illegal.
11:22am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
1:41pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
And for those democrats who figure these are sure fire votes, realize that hispanics will vote Democrat ONLY until they get the first chance to vote hispanic. Those who cling to the failed culture of their corrupt homelands will vote their race and culture first and foremost. It will be a short ride democrats.
2:11pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
3:00pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Republicans often split between those committed to a better community for all and those who figure cheap labor is good for business.
3:45pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
do you have a family?
do you have a job?
10:21pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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11:14am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Rachael's right, Chuck and NOT because she's a liberal. Utah is controlled by CONSERVATIVES, meaning that they have MORE than 50% of the vote.
I suspect that we need to persuade the CONSERVATIVES who are profiting from the illegal aliens who are here that they must make their *own* lives unpleasant so that we can crack down on gangs.
You are a RIOT, Chuck...
11:36am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Now it's time to dump the rest of the bums and clean up this huge mess.
11:50am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I never mentioned Chris Cannon at all.
However, Chris Cannon is as much as a Liberal as Ted Kennedy is sober...
12:54pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
12:51pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
About your other point, I've never understood the argument that even if we deport all of the illegal immigrants we will still have violent crime? Of course we will, but we will have to deal with fewer cases as we'll have fewer people. It's STILL beneficial.
9:40am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
9:56am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
The best solution to our crime problems is the one adopted by “America’s Toughest Sheriff”. Joe Arpaio has a cost effective deterrent that works. We should try his methods here. And by the way, Rachael, the ACLU has challenged his methods ....... and lost!!
12:08pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I have also been involved with the Hispanic community and the great majority of them work using their own identities. They do hired labor or run their own businesses selling food or wares.
Where do you get your "50%" quote regarding the number of illegal Hispanics in Utah and about how many use false identities?
1:44pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Whites make up about 90% of Utah's population in case you've missed the constant lamenting about lack of diversity here.
Do you know what it means for a group to be OVER-represented in something like welfare use?
2:15pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
3:16pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Do you REALLY believe the arguments you make? Or do you make them just to avoid discussing the real issues?
4:14pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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9:35am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Imagine if all of our homeless and drug adicts went to Canada for illegal work. Canadians would think we were a nation of lazy druggies. The families that work hard and stay in Mexico are the better part of their society. Yes, there are a few that come over that are good people, but the majority of them are Mexico's scum. Scum comes across with TB, hepititus, and many other viruses that get into our population. They also come here and realize that you have to work hard here as well. They feel stuck and go back to the life of crime they knew in Mexico, only this time they bring it to U.S. streets.
So we have to judge the illegal scum as scum and not the representatives of an entire nation.
9:44am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
And while many who do so are decent, hardworking people, far too many are deadbeats looking for welfare, or criminals looking for easy prey.
8:25pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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1:46pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Tell me again why you oppose meaningful border security?
OH, that's right. Because open borders means that efforts to enforce in the interior can be dismissed as ineffective. And you figure all the anchor babies will grow up to vote against evil, rich, white republicans. Right?
2:21pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
2:52pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Lay this problem at the feet of both parties.
3:22pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Join me--and oppose the democrats--in supporting requirements for employers to use existing government e-verify systems to help spot stolen or forged ID.
I'll then happily accept your help in imposing harsh penalties on anyone who is willfully or grossly negligently hiring illegal aliens.
And since we agree that the ability to make money and thus to live in this nation is at the heart of illegal aliens coming here:
Join me in eliminating ALL welfare for illegal aliens including free child care, free medical care, and access to other welfare programs.
Join me in supporting voter ID laws that require proof of citizenship to register to vote and positive ID to cast a ballot.
Join me in requiring all welfare applicants to provide proof of citizenship.
And join me in supporting mandatory jail time for all illegal aliens caught committing any crime at all. It is VERY difficult to earn money to send home if one is sitting in jail.
Now, did you REALLY mean to say you want to make it difficult for illegal aliens to get money? OR, did you just want to attack business owners and divert attention from a host of other measures that would also contribute to make it hard for illegal aliens to live in this nation?
12:42pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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1:27pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
HOLY SMOKES!
2:26pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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6:55pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Do you know whose number that was? Because 50,000 Utahns have had their socials hijacked by illegals. Others just use socials from people who are from out of state. So figure that most illegals are using someone else's SSN to work and nothing happens.
3:48pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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2:56pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I think we all know (even you Rachael) that illegal aliens are coming here to "work" the system, and they're getting away with a whole lot (including murder in this case).
3:22pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
And also all you have to do is rent a house and now you have a legal residence. It's not hard. Also there is a whole underground market for things like id's and social security numbers....it's not hard to get that either. Simple fact is once here, they can and do find a way to get anything they want here. For one the illegal problem is so big already that it's not hard to find in the Mexican community someone with a connection...
maybe you meet and fall in love with someone who is legal(because they were an anchor baby) But it's a cycle that will never end until they secure our borders! Thats the only way they can get in...and if they can't get in anymore and we are actively deporting them the problem will get better.
Your statement about community center in Santa Barbara and the community taking them under their wing...SICKENED ME!!! So we make it NICER to live here? Provide more resources at taxpayers expense and make things all fuzzy and warm for these people who have turned our communities into gang territory and garbage heaps?? HAVE YOU BEEN TO MEXICO??? I have many times...IT'S A WASTELAND! And thats exactly what neighborhoods are turning into where these people congregate and live...My cute little neighborhood was a 40's style subdivision kept up and maintained very well when I was a kid...not to long ago...it's over run by Mexican families(I know most are illegal) And that clean well kept neighborhood looks like a tailor park now 15 years later.
If instead of fighting terrorism 5,000 miles away and depleting our resources, we brought our troops back home to do what they should do and defend our BORDERS maybe we would be more secure. This isn't about trying to teach them or reabilitate them...whatever...THEY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE! Get them out...make it hard for them to be here...yes...build a fence then secure it with our national guard and the people who are supposed to defend out country. Maybe you should realize what illegal immigrants think about the southern states of America...They want it back, it was once theirs and if you have ever been to one of their protests...or heard a speech by those Mexicans who are angry and want back what they believe is rightfully theirs then you would know, they are trying to come here and take it back and have no respect for this country at all...and you want to make it nicer for them??!!!
Where is your logic? Better yet, where is your respect for those men and women who died to secure this nation and it's liberties for us? Where is your respect for our national security sovereignty and independence? And your ok with a bunch of illegal undermining everything we have fought for?? You should be ashamed of yourself. Why don't you take a look at these links and hopefully your eyes will open up a little.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=aztlan+rising&sitesearch=#
11:51am - Tue Jul 08th, 2008
READ MY WORDS BEFORE LABELING ME!!!!!
1:03pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I hope the gang members ROT in H*LL!!!
1:22pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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The wheels of justice do turn slow in this country and hopefully he is under those wheels for as long as it takes until he meets his maker.
2:06pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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8:48pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Supporters of illegal immigration now have more blood on their hands.
9:41pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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Illegal aliens are grossly over-represented in the commission of violent crime, hit-and-run, DUIs, graffiti, drug related crimes, and gang crimes.
The truly tragic part is that these criminals are giving a bad name/image to the larger hispanic/immigrant community, most of whom are honest, hardworking people. Of course, they do bear some small responsibility for the image problem since by-and-large they support, aid, and abet illegal aliens and oppose proper enforcement of our immigration laws.
It is time for the larger hispanic/immigrant community to stand up against illegal immigration and the crimes that too often follow it.
This isn't Mexico or Honduras and those who choose to live here need to respect our laws and assist in making life difficult for those who don't respect them.
9:09am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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9:36am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
My main concern on this particular story is not illegal immigration, but gang violence..they are two completely seperate topics, and if you say that the majority of gang violence stems from illegal immigration, you would be incorrect. Go down to Watts, Compton, LA, San Jose...visit the bloods and crips neighborhoods..the Nortenos neighborhoods..tell me how many of those gang members are illegal..
This little girl did not die as a result of illegal immigration..she died as the result of gang violence, and it could have very well been a black, asian, islander, white perp that fired the shots...it just so happened that it was a hispanic this time. So, what are the solutions? I don't want to see finger pointing...that won't stop this from happening in the future or even reduce the gang violence.
10:02am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
10:47am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I won't claim to know how to deal with the gang problems in Watts, Compton, LA, San Jose, NYC, or other similar locations. I don't live there. But I won't pretend that their problems exactly mirror our own either.
Those locations have large populations of inner-city residents who are native born, multi-generational CITIZENS.
WE, on the other hand don't have those same demographics. WE have large numbers of illegal aliens, mostly of hispanic descent.
I suspect the gang problems among inner-city citizens is a MUCH more costly and difficult problem to solve than is gang activity involving largely illegal aliens. And I see no reason to limit OUR solution set to those measures that would work in a different region of the nation with different demographics.
It is EXACTLY the refusal to see the direct, CASUAL link between illegal aliens and gang (and other criminal) activity that prevents finding and implementing workable solutions for the greater SLC area.
The solution to crime remains fixed:
1-Teach and preach morals and values;
2-REMOVE the criminals from society and otherwise make it unpleasant and unprofitable to be involved in crime.
Inasmuch as liberals have made it legally impossible to teach true morals and values in our government schools, support constantly pushing the limits of decency and decorum in popular media as a matter of 1st amendment rights, and otherwise seem intent on dismantling the moral foundation of our culture and society, we are left to rely on number 2, removing criminals from decent society.
And while it is (and must remain) costly and difficult to do that to citizens, it is (and should be) comparatively easy and inexpensive to remove illegal aliens from our society.
So while I can't offer any fixes for inner-city gang problems, I do make the case that OUR gang problem can be much more easily mitigated.
11:40am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Here is some light reading for you, Chuck.
http://www.slsheriff.org/html/org/metrogang/overview.html
Read up and come back when you have some REAL solutions for "OUR" gang problem...
11:58am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
10:51am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
I wonder why these illegal immigrant criminals come here? Does crime pay better here? The police are better in Mexico? It seems like it would be easier to commit murder and mayhem in their own country. I'm thinking maybe THIS is their country.
The gang violence (which is minimal) that I have seen in my neighborhood has been asian gangs. They are likely not illegal, but they are flat out wicked. Write on (sic).
12:16pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
And yes, this girl did die due to illegal immigration. In this case again, that coupled with gang violence go hand in hand.
12:22pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
12:33pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
1:27pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Please explain to all of us how this crime could possibly have been able to happen if this suspect or the suspects parents wouldn't have broken a federal law and been here.
Unless you know of some sort of new law of physics, even you can't argue this...
And no, we are not interested in hearing your opinion of the right of these people to make a better life for themselves while draging ours down.
Just an answer to the question please.
1:48pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
The fact of the matter is that the person who committed the crime is here DESPITE the law.
In fact, he had been DEPORTED for another crime.
Exactly, HOW is an immigration law going to keep a guy like this out of the country?
According to you and guys like Chuck, rounding up all the illegals will keep him out.
So, Just an answer to the questions please...
3:02pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
3:44pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
12:51pm - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
Gang violence, shootings, drug dealing usualy = Hispanics
On the other hand, rape, molestation, sodemy, money laundering, fraud, ...etc.. usually = home grown White Americans.
Lets not forget that all people commit crimes noit just those of a different skin color. Everytime a crime is commited by a Hispanic they are assumed to be illegal citizens and are racially profiled. Everytime a white person commits acrime their race has nothing to do with it their citizenship is not in question and all we talk about are our sympathy for the victims. Here, barely one or two people even took time to mention anything about the 7 yr old girl who lost her life.
9:27am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
9:41am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
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9:53am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008
But mostly, I want to see what the removed comments said. Free speech, KSL. Take out the cuss words, but let us read the thought, however Neanderthal it may be.
11:52am - Mon Jul 07th, 2008