can be done. It may mean cold cereal for breakfast, tunafish for luch and a can of chili for dinner. But you are not going to starve. Food stamps should not become a way of life. If you want a steak find another way.

Mormons and Food Stamps @Holysmoke - We Mormons never use government food stamps

We have been taught to go to our families 1st, to the Church 2nd, and not to the government for assistance.

Well, at least that is how we used to teach it. I have noticed a movement away from that philosophy by many members in recent years.

"If a member is unable to sustain himself, then he is to call upon his own family, and then upon the Church, in that order, and not upon the government at all." Elder Packer, The Ensign, Aug. 1975

to 'At2008' @At2008 - While what you're saying may be true, not everyone is LDS. There are plenty of people who don't have families or the LDS church to go to. Let's not make this into a religeous issue.

@Loni S. - Not that your point about the previous comment wasn't warranted but as way of an FYI you don't have to be LDS to go to the church for assistance. The "ward" boundries include non members as well and the church will step in to provide for anyone in need.

Rollin S. @Rollin S. - I realize that the LDS Church is there to help everyone within its boundaries, LDS or not. But not everyone knows that and not everyone feels comfortable with that. I know a lot of people who feel more comfortable seeking assistance from the government because they are US citizens, than from a religion to which they do not belong. Right or wrong, I am merely pointing out that I am glad that the govt. offers assistance to those who need it outside of any religious affiliation. The source from which we seek help is our own choice. I'm just glad there are options for those who need it. I just didn't think it was right to say that EVERYONE should seek help from the LDS church, or any other church, before relying on the govt. for assistance. Those choices are individually made and should not be condemned by those who would do it differently.

Socialism goes contrary to the intent of our founding fathers @Loni S. - Redistribution of wealth is stealing.

The difference between charity from private organizations (such as churches) versus so-called charity from the government is people donate voluntarily to private organizations whereas the government takes money by force (if you don't believe me, try not paying your taxes and see what happens).

Taking from the government is like breaking into your neighbor's home.

Taking from private charity is like asking your neighbor for help. It's a big difference.

I know this post will anger many people. Sadly, most Americans today have embraced socialism.

Religion embraced socialism long ago my friend... @Brian M. - While you didn't specify which church you were speaking of, the LDS church certainly has a voluntary tithing, but what happens to members who don't pay it? Also it wasn't long ago that the LDS church required it's members to give all their earnings to the church, which were then distributed amongst the members as the church leaders saw fit. If this isn't the definition of socialism I don't know what is... ;)

tithing @Jeff N. - It is only "sort of" voluntary. Every member is expected to pay it, no matter the hardship it brings, as they believe that if you pay it, then things will just naturally work out for you. However, for some people, it just does not work out that way. I know that on my current budget, 10% gone could be devastating for my household, so I am sure there are others in the same position.

@Bonnie P. - How do you know this, Bonnie? Have you tested your theory??

Being a member of any religion... @Jeff N. - ... is voluntary (at least in the United States).

Government instituted socialism is compulsory.

Apples and oranges.

Wrong @Jeff N. - It is a common misconception that socialism and the united order are the same thing. This is blatantly false as explained by LDS leaders. The united order is about voluntary stewardship. This implies agency. Socialism is about a few at the top running everything. People are not viewed as independent beings who can think and chose by themselves they they are forced to surrender their private property.

http://www.latterdayconservative.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=109
This is a talk by Marion G. Romney comparing the two.

The biggest embracers of. of socialism are... @Brian M. - The biggest embracers of socialism are the Business owners themselves.

They justify paying a low wage because their business' have to pay taxes which support the welfare program ---

Therefore, they don't feel obligated to pay an employee enough to feed his family ~ since their business is already paying taxes which fund the welfare program.

Go figure!

You!! Obviously @Chad H. - Don't own a business. I work my tail off and my company supports about 25 families. I go without pay in the lean times and do OK in the not lean times.

You think I should pay more than my company can afford?? That is absurd, then I go under and 25 families lose their income.

Only the foolish, lazy, or jealous think it is easy to own a company. Trust me, luck has nothing to do with it. Everyone thinks people who own a business are rich, perhaps you should go start one and be rich then

Sour grapes don't count, Of course I could pay them more if I killed the health plan that costs more than I make.............. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Or we could double everones pay, but that house you want will cost twice as much. Money dont grow on trees.....

C Dog @Cdog - C dog

I di own a businees but I refused to break the law and hire cheap Illegal aliens AKA undocumented workers like my competitors hired and therefore I went out of business.

So why dont you come clean and admit that 23 out of those 25 families that you support are probaly undcumented workers.

You are just another hypocrite that actually doesnt pay enough to support themselves and therefore you employees are on government asststance.

Don't lie, be a man and admit that your HR has to spend countlees hours fiiling out government assistance forms on behalf of your employees.

Hypocrite!

Socialism @Brian M. - Ok, so first of all, what you define as socialism is way different than what the world defines as socialism. Taking out the little taxes that the government does is simply the price that we pay for the protection of our rights to our property and to be protected. Now if you don't like the taxes that we pay, feel free to go live in truly socialist countries in europe and south america that have to pay 50+ percent of their pay to the government. I think that paying the taxes that we do is worth all the benefits this wonderful country gives us.

I agree that Europe and South America are more socialist @frisby - But it's like comparing fat people. Fat people can range from slightly overweight (such as myself) to morbidly obese (such as Michael Moore).

Just because we are not AS socialist as Europe or South America doesn't mean we're not socialist.

I don't think all taxes are bad. And I think government is necessary.

Taxes spent on protecting our rights (i.e. law enforcement, civil courts, criminal courts, etc.) are good and I have no problem paying my share.

Taxes taken from Person A and given to Person B is stealing.

but remember @Rollin S. - that helps depend upon the individual Bishop of that ward and he can choose not to help. And yes, that happens more than people want to believe. Some Bishops will just not help those in their ward area if they don't go to church every week.

Bishop chooses who gets the help. @Rollin S. - If your not the Bishops cup of tea... he'll leave you & your young children in a gutter and help out a bunch of crackhead drug addicts that are living on welfare, drug funds and stolen possessions.

Policy as I have seen it @motoxcoma - is that the Church helps those who help themselves. I have seen it many times. If you are trying to get into rehab or trying to find a job then the help will come. That is unless you have been on Church welfare for so long and you havn't made any improvements. In that case the bishop would be totally right in telling someone that the church would no longer give them assistance. I pay my Fast Offereing to the ward. The bishop decides who to help with my Fast Offerings. That is where the money comes from when the bishop is helping you. I trust my bishop in the decisions he makes there. I am sorry if you have a negative experience here, but I am sure that bishop made the right descision.

- @motoxcoma - I am sorry if you ended up having a negative experience with the Church Welfare program but I dont think that it is up to us to judge whether or not someone else gets the family, we dont know the circumstances of their situation. Church policy is to have Bishops help those who help themselves, or those that are doing all that they can do. Those that attempt to utilize the Church as a source of regualar income are those that will be excluded eventually from the Church Welfare services because they are making no attempt to ge themselves out of the situation they are in. I am not referring to anyone in particular, just mentioning a point, once again sorry if you had a negative experience, just know that the Bishop did what was right.

motoxcoma @motoxcoma - I am not LDS but I know you are telling the truth I saw it happen with some neighbors of mine who are LDS.

True Enough, Loni @Loni S. - I agree. Not everyone is LDS.

My point is only to those people who call themselves LDS, yet choose not to follow the instructions of the leadership.

The following quotation is only for my fellow mormons:

"Latter-day Saints should not receive unearned welfare assistance from local or national agencies. This includes food stamps." Pres. Benson, The Ensign, May 1977

I suggest going to lds.org and reading the quote in context. Pretty good stuff there.

At2008 @At2008 - So you were speaking only to the LDS? Then I agree. Those who profess to believe something should follow the counsel of the leaders they profess to believe in. I was suggesting that we not make the whole US welfare program and religious matter. It is not.

attitude @At2008 - nice "Christ like attitude" skippy

Non member @At2008 - I made 20 dollars a month too much to get any help from the state. Struggle we did btwn childcare and medical bills for our kids.I went to see a bishope in the area I lived for help, all I needed was help for a week with food due to my exhusband loseing his job. The bishope told me if I needed financial help he was willing to pay my utilities,(wich I had just spent the grocery money on) but that if I wanted help from the churches food bank, I had to go to church for at least a month befor he would help me with a food order. Never went back to talk to that man again. He wouldnt even listen to how I had payed my bills with our grocery money and I just wanted a week to get by til my pay day came. My teens still talk about it and wont even listen to anything haveing to do with LDS. Self reliant is the only way we live. Boiled beans , spegetti or steak it doesnt matter we eat alot of spegetti.

Wow @Rhonda M. - Oh, boo hoo. So, you thought that the church would just give you a free handout when you obviously didn't want anything then or now to do with the Church itself? Unbelievable how many people expect these handouts and then badmouth the Church to everyone their know.

I know of missionaries who were working with people who would leave messages on their answering machine with their list and prices of bills. The final remark was: If you can help, great, but if not...THANKS A LOT!" Wow, seems sincere to me.

Non member @N P. - Most my family are members, they told me to go to the church. They told me no really they will help you. As I said I WORK. We just needed a little help and I didnt want to let my kids go hungry. DONT accuse of people asking for hand outs if you dont pay attention or know the story.

NP @N P. - Your reply is why many people like myself question the claims of mormons being truly christian.

If someone humbled themselves enough to ask for help a true christian church would do what they could to help not ask what they get in return for it.

One bad apple @Craig S. - Why you would base your opinon of an entire group of people based on the behavior and commentary of a few, especially someone as cantankerous and generally opinated and rude as this poster, NP, is beyond me.

Like I've said in other posts, for every 1 bad experience I have with Mormons, I have 10 more that are good. I think it's shortchanging yourself and others to believe that 1 bad apple spoils the bunch, it's just not true- don't believe me? Go buy a bag of apples at Harmons. ;o)

Whoever said it was one @Nozeerozee - Its not one. NP and the bishop make at least two. And this is not the only example of it. I saw it on my mission plenty of times. I would never base my decisions on one person or one example. But when you start seeing this happen and hearing more and more of these stories. It made me question whether it was christs church. There are plenty of other examples of those who claim to be christian with some very unchrist like behaviors in any religion. I think mormons are very nice people, but there is a great amount of them who dont understand what christ like really means.

@Craig S. - "It made me question whether it was christs church"

Craig, it sounds like this isn't the only issue you have with the Mormon religion, but please stop playing the "I was offended" card and blaming what sounds like your "falling away" on the people. Hopefully you've realized that there are "bad apples" (I guess I'm considered one because I don't believe people should mooch off any church and then badmouth it when they don't get what they want) in every religion and based your decisions on the doctrine and not on the people.

NP @N P. - Where did you get the idea "I was offended". I never said that, never even hinted at it. But yea I guess whenever someone leaves the church it is because they have thin skin and were "offended" right. I hear it a lot. It makes it easier for you to believe what you believe. Of course I have other issue with the mormon church. I said that in my last post.
"I would never base my decisions on one person or one example" There are plenty of questionable teachings and practices the church does and has done that in my mind is not right. I dont understand how anybody in their right mind who would study both sides of JS would decide that he was a prophet of god. I could go on and on. But wont, I will just say their is a small precentage of mormons who know what being a true christian means.

___ @Craig S. - Sorry to intrude into ya'lls postings, but Craig, yours caught my eye, and I think yes, your right, wherever you go (no matter which denomination of religion) you will find different levels of commitment by its members, some may be half committed, some may not be, and some may be some of the most comitted, wonderful people you have ever met, you see it in all religions. I am not trying to argue with you or call you out on anything, but I am just mentioning that maybe we all ought to be more cautious about painting an entire Church as false because of the actions of some of its members, I agree though, its sad and tragic when some dont follow or practice what they preach, I cringe everytime and my heart goes out to them.
We ought not to consider Christ's church false because of the maliced actions of a few (take Judas Iscariot for example, he did some terrible things, but we shouldnt discredit Christ's gospel because of his actions as bad as they were)
As to what was being discussed, there is a great scripture in the Book of Mormon, it states how members of the Church succurd to all of the peoples "wants", it can be easy to forget that, especially when one seems to be taking advantage, which happens, but it is relatively very few in number. I guess all I am trying to say is yeah, there are a few bad examples, there are in every religion, different levels of commitment, but we ought not let that shake our own faith.

--ps, where did you serve your mission?, just curious here.

I respect that @Ryno - Like I said most members are nice people but that doesn't mean they know what it is to be a christian. Most people are nice people too. Mormons like to give themselves a lot more credit then they should. Like I said it is more then the actions of a few. There is plenty of doctrine which I could get into but refuse because it is something that brings a happiness into the lives of my family and neighbors of mine. I am not a mormon hater but I am not afraid to call you at when false statements are made.

reminds me @N P. - It reminds me of a woman I know who was going through hard times and asked me to put her in touch with her Bishop. She was furiouse when he offered her food from the store house or to pay her utilities. She wanted cold hard cash. I'm sure she slams the church about it to this day. It's frustrating.

Dont know what your point is @Andrea S. - But OK be frustrated. People will make you frustrated if you let them.

Craig @Craig S. - Okay, but you are saying that you "think Mormons are nice people"- a generalization of character- and then saying you feel there a great many who do not comprehend the meaning of Christlike behavior. Most people I have found to be TRULY nice, are almost always acting in accordance with the principles taught by Christ, even if they are not FOLLOWERS of Christ. Look, I'll go out on limb here and be honest with you, okay? You are talking to a person who at one time had a VERY negative opinion of the LDS Church which was based on isolated experiences with only a few members- it didn't take much to rub me the wrong way back then and I wasn't about to INTENTIONALLY comingle with those bleepedy bleep mormons! But what I found out once I was willing to look beyond the few, is that the greater more have been exceptionally loving, giving, caring and accepting people to me and my family- I really and truly mean that. We have been included far more in the lives and goings on of our LDS neighbors than we ever have by our own Catholic Church community. Anybody intent on "mormon hating" as I've experienced it here in Utah, probably doesn't want to hear me say that, but it's true.

I see lots of examples of other people throughout the world who also proclaim their Christianity but act like hateful monsters- most readily coming to mind are more or less born again Christians and Baptists and all of the anti abortionists who try to stop murder by committing it- I don't need to go on a mission to see it, it's all around us right here.

I liken the few here in Utah who behave badly or have it all backwards and really make a poor impression for those who don't intimately know the Church, or treat non-members or inactive members unkindly and pass judgement unfairly, to what it must be like to be a Mormon, or a Jew, or a Muslim living in Vatican City, Rome. That's the best comparison I can offer.

yes! @Nozeerozee - and it seems that if people feel 'wronged' by the church they come out of the wood works to share their stories, but if the church or a memeber of the church helps they don't shout it out or do a story on it in the paper. I don't think that we should shout it out, but I do think that people are more willing to talk about the bad stuff that happens than the good. This string of posts is a great example of that.

Get what in return? @Craig S. - The whole purpose of the LDS welfare program is to help people get back to work and not to create dependency. When people are asked to do work for what they receive it is most of work that assists others in need. The stories given only present on side.

@3arwax - How is going to church for a month work for others?

Or did you not read what I was replying to?

Seeking help on YOUR terms @Rhonda M. - You don't see a problem with your asking an LDS Church, whose members tithe @ 10% of THEIR earnings to help you through your hardship and expect to give nothing in return for their willingness to help you? That is what is wrong- not the Bishop asking you to at least be willing to come to church and listen to what is being taught there. If you had, you might have learned some valuable lessons which would help you in your efforts to become self-sufficient and be able to manage for at least 3 mos in the event of unemployment or loss of income in the future. You didn't go, you just expected help and as you indicated, the Bishop was willing to give it to you by paying your utilities since you spent that money on food. And besides that your story doesn't exactly add up- You spent your utility $$ on food but instead of help to pay the gas & light bill, you still needed help with food and not the utilities? I don't see where you've been wronged by anyone. If your teens are experiencing negative feelings about a whole group of people, based on what YOU communicated to them as children regarding ONE LDS Bishop, whom you NEVER talked to again because you were unhappy that he did not give you what you wanted HOW you wanted it, that is a downright shame.

I lost my job and my husband and I were in dire straights. His family and my family are very small and they helped where they could but, it still was not enough. We could not qualify for state assistance in any form, INCLUDING the food stamp program- we like you were only a few dollars above the income limit for the number of people in our household.

We were not members of the LDS Church at the time, but had been fellowshipped by members in the area. Upon learning of our hardship, the presiding Bishop and then his successor were notified and offered help in the form of food assistance from the Bishops Storehouse. They knew there was no way that my very Catholic husband was going to attend their church and they knew that we would too would be eating a lot of top ramen & spaghetti, as you say, which would not meet the nutrition needs of our family, before he would ask for a "hand out". They also knew he was a good man in spite of his pride, and instead of asking him to attend church, they asked him for something else- to help those in the ward who could not help themselves, such as an elderly widow who needed her fence mended, and a young single mother who needed help with some household repairs.

It was a very humbling experience to have people offering to help us in our time of need, we were so grateful for their love and assistance, as hard as it was for us to accept it. I am sorry that you do not find an offer to help with your bills as a sufficient demonstration of love and charity simply because the monetary assistance they were willing to give you was not accompanied by a shopping order to the Bishops Storehouse.

That all happened about 7 years ago. For every negative experience we've had with members of the LDS Church (and there have been negative experiences), we've had 10 more that were positive. I'm only sorry that you've let what happened with that one person leave a bitter taste in your mouth for the rest of the members of his church. :-(

re-read @Nozeerozee - Why dont you re read my post. I spent my money on rent childcare, utilities and medical costs. Maybe I should have said family from another state told me to seek assistance from the church. Not wanting to, but not wanting my kids to go hungry, more then just teenagers BTW.,I humbly went and asked for help for ONE WEEK, til my payday came. It wasnt a matter of the bishope just saying no, it was him being judgemental without knowing us, other then we were non-members.

I've re-read your comment @Rhonda M. - "The bishope told me if I needed financial help he was willing to pay my utilities,(wich I had just spent the grocery money on)..." I guess I misread your post- He was willing to give you money to pay your utilities but you, unfortunately, had already used your grocery money for these bills before seeking help from him and the church. My apologies for misreading.

I would ask though, did you know when you paid the utilities with your grocery money you would need to figure out an alternate means of providing food for your family? I can't see how you wouldn't. We've all had hard choices to make and maybe you were panicking or you didn't think it all the way through before you chose to apply what money you had as you did- I know I've done my own share in making bad decisions. Still, you didn't bother to talk to him again after he asked you to go to church for bailing you out of your situation, and I really am sorry, I'm not trying to call you a liar, but it doesn't sound believable to me that any Bishop would tell you that you had to go hungry for a MONTH attending his church before he would help you with food for ONE week- it doesn't ring true in my ears.

Maybe you were upset and you misunderstood whatever it was he was asking you to do or when/how long he was asking you to do it? I can see him telling you he wanted you to attend church but, witholding one week's food assistance hostage for that attendance? If that's true, then I can only imagine he must have been a brand new bishop with little experience and made a bad judgement call, or maybe he really was as bigoted as you say which is very unfortunate- but how can you ever know for sure since you NEVER talked to him again?

Judgemental @Nozeerozee - as he was I am sure I did not misunderstand. And we had beans and rice. Wich I thought would do for a week with some tomatoe sauce for flavor. HOWEVER my extended family did not and talked me into seeking help. I applied for emergency food assistance, then went to the bishope whenI found I made 20 dollars a month too much for state assistance. At the time no one litterally no one told me of food banks. believe it or not , not even Workforce services informed me you could find a food bank in your area that does help with 3-4 days of food. WICH IS ABOUT ALL WE NEEDED. I do know how to make things streatch.

he he he @Nozeerozee - I havent paid my gas bill in a few months...
shhh.. don't tell

LOOK, @Nozeerozee - Before I saw the light and stopped going to the WARD, me and my wife we members and I was paying my 10% month in and month out. I got laid off and needed help with the rent so after trying everything I could of I went and talk to my Bishop and he told me he couldn't help me with the rent, but could get me some food at the storehouse. Well I needed $250 for the rent and I had $325 in a check for tithing. So I told me I'd have to miss tithing this month an pay my rent. I guess that was the worst thing known to man. I won't going into the full story here, but needless to say I stopped going to church and got Sundays off and a 10% raise to boot.

@Robbrouse - I guess getting laid off was your excuse to feel justified about leaving the church. Always an excuse, always playing the "I was offended" card...

Cult @N P. - No just like a Mo.... I giving my hard earned cash to the church and doing everything like they want us to and then what happens after paying all money I just for help one time and I get told to **** ****. Leaving this cult was the best choice I made and anyone one else to.

@Robbrouse - Nobody made you do anything you didn't want to do. If you didn't believe it in the first place, then why did you become a member or even attend church at all? Please stop trying to act like you're this saint who gave all of his "hard earned cash" to the Church. If you didn't want to, you wouldn't have.

Keep justifying and get back to your anti-materials...

NP @N P. - I think you need to go read your scriptures again pal, you are the most judgemental mormon I have ever read on this forum, how can you judge others when you don't even know them? That is exactly what Rhonda was stating about in her comment, and you just keep proving that the LDS are very judgemental people, I know I have met QUITE a few myself, if I were you I would shove my foot in my mouth and shut up....

@4:20 - Nope, just calling them like I see 'em.

-- @N P. - give some people a break NP, we dont know their situations, if they felt like they needed help I am glad they came to the Church for help, it can do alot to help others.

Rhonda M. @Rhonda M. - I'm sorry that happened to you. I disagree with the Bishop's decision, but try not to let that incident form a negagtive a opinion on the Church itself.

Church, or beliefs @Kp - I believe in the teachings of the church. The inccident did turn away my kids from it, but I am niether here nor there with it at this time. My family are mostly members and hold recomends. I just choose not to be a part at this time.

The incident or your reaction? @Rhonda M. - I imagine that your reaction, which you just posted, had a role to play in your children's reaction.

Perhaps the problem was that the Bishop never writes you a check. He only writes checks to pay for things directly. The also usually does not buy groceries and instead refers you to the Bishops storehouse with some credit for food to be picked up. I don't have enough information to say what the problem was though.

No @3arwax - he did not. He told me he would not help w food at all til we went to church for a month. and offerd to write a check for utilities wich I had paid previously. If he had offerd me a voucher for the store house I would have been greatful as my extended family are all tith payers.

Not enough info @Rhonda M. - As I have only heard your side I cannot judge fairly. It really isn't even my position to judge. I hope that you and your children can get over your bitter feelings.

Because @At2008 - you have the Church. Some people are not comfortable asking the LDS Church for a handout. Apparently you are fine doing that. Personally I work for a living.

Out of Date Doctrine Alert @At2008 - You need new sources, AT2008. The newest edition of the Church Handbook of Instructions states, "In some instances, members may decide to seek welfare assistance from the government. The bishop should advise members to comply with any laws that regulate the receipt of non-Church assistance...."

Wrong @Drgroovey - That does not say it is OK for members to take government assistance. But unfortunately didn't live that doctrine so the policy has been modified. At least that is according to my understanding. The doctrine is currently being taught in another form. Be Self Reliant. Save for a rainy day. Even Bishop Burton talked about why the LDS welfare program was established in the most recent conference "to abolish the evils of the dole".

The LDS Churech Encouraged @At2008 - its members to use government assistance during the depression. In fact, it told the members to use federal assistance and not bother the bishop or church for assistant.

There are just as many lazy mormons as non-mormons.

Just a thought... @Stewpendous - Commenting on Stewpendous' comments: As to your claim the church encouraged the membership to rely on the govt' during the depression I have no information one way or the other as to whether that is true. It probably is true. Not because "Mormon's" (or anybody needing assistance) are lazy, but because the Great Depression happened before the LDS church set up it's Welfare system. The Great Depression first hit in 1929. The LDS church set up it's system (partly because of this event) in 1936 and I'm sure in the beginning it wasn't nearly what it is today.

As far as the statement "There are just as many lazy Mormons as non-Mormons" that may or may not be accurate, but in the context you use it you would suggest the people suffering during the Depression were suffering because they were lazy. That is not the case, people of all faiths suffered because of an economic disaster.

Just something to remember. Yes, some people do abuse the system, but there are many who do not. We shouldn't judge them.

Show me a source @Stewpendous - I don't want to just take your word for it.

Zero Common Sense Is Right @At2008 - Oh, that is SO not true. Members of the LDS Church are counseled to prepare for the unexpected and when that preparation falls short, assuming it's even been made, they can get help from the Bishop but, if you really think that people won't seek help from the State simply because they are Mormon? Common sense says otherwise.

Just like people who belong to the Church aren't supposed to go to the bars, fornicate, adulterate, be dishonest etc. etc., they aren't supposed to seek help outside of their family first and Church second either- BUT THEY DO. People are after all, HUMAN and subject to fault and error before anything else including, being Mormon.

LDS @At2008 - Leave it to a mormon to tune this into something it's not.

Yep @Robbrouse - And it makes for some mighty interesting discussions.

It is good to read the various opinions and experiences of others.

Mormons and Food Stamps, We Mormons never use government food stamps @At2008 - Yea Right..............Were did you get this fact? From the Bishop?

not true @At2008 - This statement is simply not true. Granted the lds church does offer these programs I have stood in line behind a lady in my ward who had no problem pulling out her food stamp card to buy groceries. The sad thing is that I know people in my ward who work two and three jobs to stay off foodstamps but this lady goes to church every sunday, had foodstamps and wiic and other goverment help, but doesn't work as she has told people that she is a "stay at home mom" So becareful when you stand on your high horse and say mormons don't use government subsidies they most certainly do. And by the way, the lady that I'm talking about is a VERY nice lady.

All about choices. @Holysmoke - I have known many people who make a lot of money and still end up broke every month. I have also known many people who make very little, and still have enough for their needs and for the simple pleasures of life. While it may not be true for every single person, I believe that our level of "poverty" has more to do with the choices we make than with how much we make.

I've seen two families with identical jobs and incomes go two very opposite directions. One made "wise" (in my opinion) choices in their spending, and where they lived, etc. They never got assistance, though they qualified for it, but they never seemed to need anything. The other family made "poor" (in my opinion) choices. They spent a good amount on junk food, sodas, beer, and cigarettes, and would go out to new movies and things all the time. They also qualified for government assistance, and received it. Yet, they always seemed to be "needing" something else. Their kids were often hungry, and looked like they were anorexic because of how little they ate and the types of food they ate. Two families, same income, different choices, very different results. It's all about the choices.

Choices @Mr_neo - It is easy to to live within means if you work hard at it. the key is WORK. Its work to live within your means when your pay rate is lower. but it is possible. I have been a single Mom now for almost 2 yrs. I dont have much not even a couch, but I take care of my kids and we get by. And yes I have asked for help at one time or other, and have been turned down, thus making it manditory to live with in my means. Not that I would have it anyother way. Just takes a little more work.

Piece of cake @Holysmoke - I just looked up how much my family has spent so far this year. It comes to $1.03 per person per meal, and I think we eat pretty well. It's actually less than that because my "grocery" expendatures includes a lot of non-food items.

So dont get on food stamps. Go find a job, work for your living, provide for yourself. I am so tired of the mind set in this country. If someone cant meet the standard, we dont make them work harder, we lower the standard. God forbid anyone has to learn that life is full of dissapointments...nope, we're too compassionate for that. I think that they ought to get rid of food stamps, get rid of wellfare and if you cant eat, you better go find a job.

Job? @Kenny M. - Got a job, so does my wife, we both work for the state and government (probably tells you something about those entities) and still qualify for food stamps. Of course we are also students and have kids, but food stamps don't always equal dead-beats. Having said that and never been in the situation to qualify for food stamps until I came to Utah (and started working for the state) we eat better now then we ever did.

@Dcnielsen - yeah, I work for the Govt as well and I also qualify for food stamps. Guess what, I got a second job to make up for it. And I know that someone is going to give the excuse that "we have kids to take care of" I am also a single father. People need to learn how to make it on their own and not rely on the Government. Its not the governments responsibility to make sure you have food in your stomach.

I got no problem.... @Kenny M. - With people like Kenny getting food stamps. At least he is willing to get out and work. After all, isn't that what the program is supposed to be about? I don't mind taking up the slack for people willing to try their hardest and do their best. Good Job Kenny

No excuses @Kenny M. - You sound a little disgruntle. I accept the help for what it is and will not bite the hand that feeds me. I have made it on my own for the majority of my life and have worked several jobs in addition to my full time job as well as been a full time student. People say take responsibility for your decisions, I was making more than enough for a family twice the size I have now when we decided to start a family (it was planned, imagine that). But an accident changed all that. I was lucky, I am not a vegetable and if any blame should be assigned it should be assigned to the irresponsible company that did not take care of its employees after it had mangled them. I never claimed it was the responsibility of the government to feed me, but I have certainly served them in more capacities than most could even imagine. Just as the majority of Americans could not afford to go to school if it were not for some sort of assistance I see this program as that, assistance to finish something that will ultimately make me more profitable in the long run. As a father, I would argue that you are not putting your priorities in the right place. Forego your second job and spend that time with your kid(s) and finish your education to completely eliminate the need for government assistance. Otherwise you will only become more sour and your kid(s) will pay for it. Not to mention our society.

second job @Kenny M. - I appreciate what you are trying to say.... However, everyone is different and we have these govmnt programs for a case by case basis.

I think it was unfair to assume that everyone on govmnt assistance is jobless. My husband & I are both educators (gov. employed),my husband is a fulltime graduate student, I DO have a second job AND we are full time parents. At the end of the day we still struggle to put food on the table. I am Very greatful for the programs offered by the govmnt in assisting my family to eat healthy. I don't "rely" on the government to support my family, but it is comforting to know that if I ever needed anything it would be there to pick up the slack.

It can be done without assistance @Asl - My husband works for the state and I am a stay at home mom. We do not rely on any form of government assistance or church assistance. We live within our means. With ONE (repeat ONE) income and a couple kids, a house, graduate school, we make it each month. Very tight but we make it. It is pleasing to use that we are self sufficient.

@Bkcowley12 - I have to agree with Bkcowley12. My husband works one job. I'm not sure how much state employees are paid but we can't be making much more than those who work for the state. I am also a stay at home mom. We currently have one vehicle while we save up for a larger one. We live in a 3 bedroom home where our children share rooms and our dining room is our play area. We also have more then enough to live on with extra for treats and activities for the children. Where we could qualify for government assistance, we do without. Planning a grocery trip by watching the sales helps out a lot. I also try shopping at walmart because they will price match most sales offers so I can take advantage of all 6 area store sales with one stop.

One income @Bkcowley12 - Put yourself in the shoes of someone who is 1) female 2) divorced or otherwise single and 3) has children to feed. I am very happy for you and your husband that you manage to care for your family on one income, but I would caution you to take into consideration the fact that YOU do not have to make arrangements for childcare and therefore do not have that added expense which, a single working mom may have. And please, do not forget that in the American workforce, women workers are likely make around anywhere from 15%-40% less than men. If your situation was reversed and it was you in the workforce with the same education level and experience as your husband, and it was him staying home with the kids, do you think that you as a woman, would be able to "bring home the bacon" to the degree that your husband currently does? I don't know...

Nozeerozee @Nozeerozee - I apologize if it sounded like I was against people using government assistance when needed. That was not my intent. Supporting a family as a single parent would not be easy and I admire you for being willing to do so because I know some parents choose not to. I was commenting more towards people who can get along without the assistance but choose not to because they like to have the bigger and better of everything. One of the reasons that I quit my job when my second child was born was because of the cost of child care so I know how expensive that can be as well. I grew up in a single parent home and was raised with some assistance from our church. I also learned how to do without things that were less important when planning the budget, such as the $150 jeans that everyone else was wearing. I wish you luck as a single parent and admire what you are doing. Once again I apologize if my comment was found offensive.

;-) @Amanda H. - Amanda I am NOT offended. I just wanted to make an observation that sometimes what WE are able to make work, another cannot, for whatever reason. I grew up in a single parent family too. My situation might have been a little different, but I can very much relate to getting by with less.

I was especially interested to know the outcome of the shopping trip Mayor Cahoon made with his wife and children. He was able to stay under budget simply by planning, using coupons, and being willing to chose food that is just as good but not as expensive as other choices. Feeding your family on a budget CAN be done with or without foodstamp assistance.

For the record, I once was a divorced mother of two. I am currently- and HAPPILY ;)- a married mother of 4 beautiful children who do not get everything handed to them and who are learning that if they want something they must plan ahead and save for it. An iPod is a luxury, not a necessity and we only provide for the necessities except for at Christmas and on Birthdays. We hope our children will develop a greater sense of personal responsibility and a sense of self satisfaction knowing that they are capable of doing for themselves.

Justification @Nozeerozee - Do circumstances justify someone using the government to FORCE people to assist them? Why not let people do it voluntarily?

What happened to the simple concept @Kenny M. - What happened to the simple concept of being a self sufficient, sustained, and contributing member of society? What happened to the days where if you could not afford it you did not get it? What happened to the days where if you could pay for something it was best to do it in cash?

I do not begrudge those who are using Government Assistance however I do have a problem with those who are soaking the system and profiting from it. That is my Money Too!

First people need to look to themselves for assistance, what have you done and what are you capable of doing to make your situation better? Then how can your family help you? Then how can local charities and churches help you? Government Assistance should be the LAST option. However these days it is becoming the first.

How can I make things better when things get tight for me... 1. Live off my Food Storage, Cut back my spending, Cancel Cable TV and Internet and any Optional Services that I can. 2. Get a second job or work overtime until things get better. Ask Family for Aid whatever that may be.

When the Food Storage Runs thin you can go to the Local LDS Church and ask for assistance. They do require that you Work in a Form of Service to pay for the food you are given. Now how is that a bad trade.. Sure we can help you but you need to help us in return. That is the problem... People just want a hand out.. The Government just gives it to you. They do not require you work at the food plant or Storehouse to pay back for the items you have been given, they do not require you do anything to change the situation. That is the problem with the system. And it needs to change.

Work for the state? @Dcnielsen - That means you get Arbor Day, Columbus Day, and Groundhog Day off. Must be nice. It turns out you are deadbeats if you overextend yourselves by going to school and having kids before you are financially able to handle such a load. Maybe you should defer school so you don't ripoff us taxpayers who decided we will save for school rather than steal from our fellow citizens. Nobody who is on foodstamps thinks they're a deadbeat freeloader. If I were on foodstamps, I would consider myselfe a deadbeat freeloader.

@Floyd Hoopper - Hey Floyd,
Newsflash for ya. In a lot of Govt jobs, school is a benefit. I just took a english class and didnt pay a dime. I dont consider that being a dead beat. It's a benefit of doing the job that we do. I dont know what Dcneilsen does but as far as mine, its is a perk for doing what I do.
I'm very happy for you that you saved for school, I'll bet you are proud of yourself, you're a big boy now.

What? @Kenny M. - That has nothing to do with being an overextended deadbeat freeloader on foodstamps? I'm glad you are learning English this year.

@Kenny M. - So schooling is ok to recieve but not food assitance? Why couldn't you just pay for school on your own you free loader? It isn't the gov'ts job to make sure you are educated you know, you should take care of yourself instead of being a burden to everyone else.~

@Rollin S. - Well, Rollin. My free education is one of my benifits for being an active duty member in the U.S. Military. It is one of the ways that I get compensated for voluntarily putting my life in harms way to keep terrorists out of this country. So I dont feel that I am being a "burden to everyone else."

@Kenny M. - "People need to learn how to make it on their own and not rely on the Government"

That is your comment. I don't agree with it but I assume you do so the point remains, you should take care of your education on your own if you want to own what you said previously.

I think education benefits for active military are a wonderful benefit and I congratulate you for taking advantage of them. I also think the welfare and food stamp programs are wonderful programs that can and sometimes do get taken advantage of. That alone does not make them unworthy of support.

@Rollin S. - I believe there are too many people that abuse the system. I also believe that we should either totally abolish the food stamp system and find something better or have a very strict qualification process. There are too many people sucking this country dry with food stamps, well fare and other "support agencies."

But one point, if I may @Rollin S. - Many employers give tuition assistance or reimbursement to their employees- why should the government, as an EMPLOYER, do the same? This is very different from "seeking government assistance" in general, don't you think?

@Nozeerozee - Makes sense doesn't it? Yes I agree with you it should be a benefit and it's a very good one at that. Thank you for making my point I hope Kenny comes around to our thinking on this issue. And no I don't think it's vastly different from asking for gov't assitance, they are essentially funded from the same source. My point is that are we not all beggars? Don't we all have reasons to be grateful? Can't we all find something in our lives that we aren't deserving of? I am confident there are many ways I have been blessed which I remain unworthy of and I feel as I have been blessed so should I contribute and bless the lives of others where ever I can.

@Floyd Hoopper - YOU COULD HAVE THE INSITE AND INTELLIGENCE OF A NAT, IF YOU TRY REALLY HARD!

[Please don't shout with ALL CAPS.]

When attacking someone's intelligence... @Delski - ... it is best to spell insite and nat by their common spellings "insight" and "gnat".

And best to identify the lack of intelligence @Floyd Hoopper - Too bad you aren't smart enough to do what is best for you. Just as I find myself at the bottom of society now, I will not be here for long so enjoy your rude comments. The difference is I would be doing what I am doing with or without food stamps (so how does that make me a deadbeat freeloader?). While my earnings exceed six digits again you will still be sitting here thinking I was some how a deadbeat. While I pay more in taxes than you make in a year, you will sit there thinking I was somehow a deadbeat. I know this, because I already have a job lined up. While you are spending your time correctly the spelling of others I will be working less hours than I am now, making much more. The trick is trying to get more on the program to do what I am doing (I don't think it is possible, because I was well on my way to finishing my degree before coming to this state). I returned to this state to help my aging parents so that they are not a strain on your little society. You have a lot to learn young padawan and I hope you learn it before too long.

Q & A @Dcnielsen - Q: The difference is I would be doing what I am doing with or without food stamps (so how does that make me a deadbeat freeloader?).

A: Because you are on food stamps. Food stamps is just a phrase for "I will steal money from hardworking Americans for my own advancement. I will then state that my higher taxes will count as repayment for my foodstamps, when, if I had any integrity, I would pay back the full amount." Food stamps is just one of many government entitlement programs that extort from the productive and give to the freeloader.

Q: While my earnings exceed six digits again you will still be sitting here thinking I was some how a deadbeat.

A: Not really a question, but you are a deadbeat now, and when you make 6 figures, you will no longer be a deadbeat, provided you are able to wean yourself off of your entitlements. Taking money from productive people against their will for the purpose of redistribution is extortion.

Filthy thief.

Clueless @Floyd Hoopper - Call me what you like but it does not change a thing. Just because you don't see how capitalism works is not my fault. You will probably call me a thief then because I will qualify for tax breaks you won't even understand as I will actually be employing others. Would I be able to do this without this kind of help, yes (but it makes it easier and more likely I will be successful in doing so). A thief takes something that is not his, not something that is given him. You want change do it through the political process (good luck). I would say you are a bigger drag on society because of your ignorance and unwillingness to meet full potential. You don't like how things work here I invite you to any other country (you take your pick) and see how your ideology works. I will now take the time to call you a filthy pig, as that is precisely the person I see behind your words. Of course that may not mean much to you, but it is the best description of you and if thought about one much worse than what you have assigned to me.

Capitalism? @Dcnielsen - Capitalism = you buy your own food because you were productive
Socialism = governement buys your food with money taken from productive human beings.

Clueless @Floyd Hoopper - Capitalism generally refers to an economic system in which the means of production are privately[1] owned and operated for profit, and in which investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are determined through the operation of a free market. In capitalism, individuals and groups of individuals acting as "legal persons" or corporations trade capital goods, labor, land and money (Wikipedia).

With that said, it is a capitalistic society that benefits from spring boarding its members into the position to further support the society as a whole. It is not the individuals who merely survive that help capitalism thrive but the individuals who exceed. You are a strain on capitalism because you do not produce enough!

How you gona make six figures, @Dcnielsen - You buy into Amway??

@Floyd Hoopper - I went to school(for both an undergraduate and graduate degree), had children and never had to use food stamps. But while I was in school, I would not have been opposed to it if I needed them. Why? Because now that I graduated, I am paying a lot more in taxes because my salary is higher due to the education. I am paying for those food stamps 10 times over. So don't complain about students on food stamps for a couple of years. They are the ones paying for everything once they graduate. So they are not deadbeat freeloaders.

Thank you @crmeatball - I have already paid in excess of tuition what I have received in food stamps. Despite relocating here for reasons other than education (aging parents and violent living conditions in my previous residence due to drugs and criminals). Tim Ebner would not give me in-state tuition so the state is giving me food stamps as I pay four times as much to finish my education. I already have things lined up for my graduate degree and a job lined up after that. While working construction I paid quite a bit in taxes and I will be paying a lot more (gladly knowing it is going to programs like this).

@Dcnielsen - you paid out of state tuition because you were not a permanent resident of the state, that is not the states fault, that is yours, so that should count. and as you get paid more, sure your taxes go up, thats the way the game works, doesn't mean you're paying back the government, it means you're finally contributing your share. If you want to pay back society, pay more than what you're supposed to in taxes, and don't cash the tax return check.. otherwise, you're still freeloading.. if you really want the government to support you, join the military.... at least you'll be trading your life (or the chance of giving your life) for the benefits that you receive.

END OF RANT....

is that your wife.. @Floyd Hoopper - Floyd is that a picture of your wife. if so maybe you should go on food stamps because she looks way too healthy.

I don't have an opinion either way, I just think your comment was way too trollish regardless of which side of the fence you are on.

Choice? @Dcnielsen - Why not give somebody the choice to voluntarily help you out instead of using the government to force them to?

to Kenny M. @Kenny M. - I understand what you're saying and I agree with you to a point, but it has limits. There are people who cannot work, those who are not capable of getting a college degree, those who will always need public assistance. Those who need it should get it and should not be begrudged or criticized for it. There are also very capable people who lose their jobs unexpectedly and have to rely on public assistance until they get the next job. I am thankful that these services are in place for those who need it when they need it. But I also recognize how badly the system is abused by those who can provide for themselves and choose not to. Blanket policies don't suit our needs. These things should be determined on an individual basis. I agree with Holysmoke above, though. The food stamp budget may not be elaborate, but you can live on it. It even provides for eating out at select restaurants. It may be a change of lifestyle for the Mayor, but not something that would cause pain or suffering.

food stamps @Kenny M. - How about this- if you are ever laid off work for an extended time, injured, disabled, have a child with a terminal disease, spouse leaves you, etc. pleas don't acdcept ANY gov't assistance (that you have paid for with your taxes) and be the self supporting hero that you think you are.

I hope this isn't a repeat @biff smitty - Biff it doesn't take a “hero” to keep her job if her husband leaves her. It doesn't take a "hero" to find another job if she is laid off. I think we can take the "child with a terminal illness" out of the equitation since that probably applies to less than 1% of those on welfare. Don’t pretend that those who have gone through hard times without help are high and mighty. This country is a better place for them.

can you say Geneva Steel? @biff smitty - In this case, there wasn't enough jobs to be had to absorb all those that were looking. And even if you found one, chances are it was for half the pay.
So here you are with a job you thought you would have until retirement, and the rug is pulled out from underneath you. And to boot, the industry you've been working in all your life has dried up and moved overseas.
Alot of these people came in for food stamps. Would you call them deadbeats?

Food stamps What about the elderly people who are on a fixed income. These people worked all their lives and they should be taken care of when they are this old.

Different @Rhonda L. - My parents have had no money their whole life. They have never needed government assistance in raising their nine children. My dad worked his ars off to raise us. But now that they are too old to work (74) there are several organizations that help them because they are senior citizens. Don't worry about the elderly. They are taken care of.

Usually @Andrea S. - Unfortunately not all the time. I have seen some elderly go without certain things. Eventhough you are right about some being taken care of, some are not. Something we as a society need to think about, our government does not have to fix everything. This would be resolved if more of us were to take care of our own (precisely what I plan on doing with our own parents when they need it).

@Dcnielsen - Absolutely!! If more people took care of each other and didnt rely on the Govt, we would be better off.

understand @Dcnielsen - I understand that some of the elderly are incapable of driving themselves to the local senior citizens center for low cost meals (or the gov't buildings to inquire of qualifying benefits) and that is where you say family needs to take care of them. When my parents get to that point they will have a home with any of their children. But for now they insist in staying in their tiny little town where they are most comfortable.

@Dcnielsen - Not only the Elderly but the young as well. What about the children that these parents have, do you think they should not be fed because there parents can't or won't get a job? This is not the children's fault, I like the fact that they don't just recieve money they recieve a food card that they can only purchase food with so we know that the children are being fed and it's not going to mommy & daddy's drug habit or anything like that.

8 children? @Andrea S. - Your father may have worked is "ars" off to raise you, but since there were so many children in your family, he paid less taxes too. People like my husband and I pay higher taxes to cover the educations of all of those children, not the people who actually have the children. We have no children, but yet we have to pay for all of their education, health costs, etc. So don't brag about your family without realizing that fact too. I sure hope with 8 children that your mother also worked. Yes, I know times were different, but if your parents wanted such a large family, they need to plan and make sure that they could afford it, not just hope that God or whatever would help them out in the end. And they should be required to pay taxes the same way all of the rest of us are. Those of us without children (and NOT by choice) should not have to suffer the pain of not being parents and also paying for other people's children. Something wrong there.

@Bonnie P. - Oh give me a break! Your the classic troll! Get off your cry baby soap box about having to pay for others children! There are plenty of families I know who have lot's of kids and the parents work hard and pay taxes and continue to after their children are grown and moved out. A lot of the children are raised well and go on to be well educated members of society paying money into our tax system- it all works itself out in the end so you have nothing to complain about. Don't be so bitter because motherhood isn't afforded to you-because in reading your post, that's what your rant is really about.

More @Bonnie P. - We kids know that our parents had more children than they could afford or handle. But what can we do about it but make the best of our lives.

You always have a choice to have children. I have several friends who have adopted and never could have imagined how much they love their babies.

I'm sorry that my being proud of making it through hard times on my own is perceived by you as bragging.

Elderly @Rhonda L. - I can see giving assistance to the elderly, but if these people have families, and many of them do, the responsibility needs to fall in their laps. After all, they took care of us growing up, now so must we when they are growing old.

They knew. @Rhonda L. - You know the old people knew that they were getting older and that they would need to eat as they aged.... I do feel bad but it is still not our problem.

I hope you think about that @Tracy S. - As I imagine I will not be in that situation you just never know. I can easily see you in that kind of situation and hope that there are those with a little more heart when you are.

I agree with you Tracy @Tracy S. - People seem to troll you when you are rational. There are so many elderly that never planned for retirement. My father ended up spending his on my wayward sister.

It's really sad to see elderly in bad situations. People plan now for your retirements.

Andrea @Andrea S. - I'm a 25 year old SINGLE mother myself my daughter is 7 years old, I have cared for her all by myself since she was born (no help for the sperm donor) anyway when she was born I could not breast feed (for reasons I won't explain)and the formula was very expensive there was no way being a 17 year old mother that I could afford to pay for all that formula so I went to the state and got on a program called WIC, it was so helpful not only to me but to my baby I didn't want starving Andrea, and to this day I work my tail off everyday of my life and I make an honest living I pay taxes and support me & my daughter, you Andrea are one ignorant person to not realize that this is helpful to those in need you state the elderly knew they were getting old Andrea you have no idea what the elderly went through in thier times, i'm sure you have heard of the depression though, you sound like you were some spoiled little rich kid who thinks oh I did it by myself, Shut up Andrea the reason you did not recieve a grant (and I can tell you why from experience) is because your parents made to much money that's why Andrea I know because my parents didn't make alot of money and my single no children brother got a grant just fine.

Wow @4:20 - You are a real sweetheart! Love your signature. What time is it? It's 4:20 (smoke a doobie time)! That says a lot about you by the way.

You obviously didn't read any of my previous posts where I talk about my dad working his ars off to raise me and my EIGHT sisters and brothers, with no help from the Gov't. I watched him work for every dime and I have been through really hard times and made it through on my own and am a better person for it. No silver spoon here.

I'm glad that you found help for little Andrea being such a YOUNG mother. I'm not apposed to welfare helping out the children by any means. We need to care for the children at any cost.

Assumptions & Hatred @Andrea S. - Say alot about you Andrea, how do you know what 4:20 stands for? is 4:20 not a time?

@4:20 - haha, thats crap- we all know dang well what 420 stands for.

HA HA LOL @Jason B. - well jason I thought that 420 was a number and 4:20 was a time. It is funny however how you an Andrea were the first to point that out.hmmmmmmmm????

Jason B. @Jason B. - I have no idea what 420 stands for. Could you explain? Thanks. Feeling a little lost here.

So @4:20 - you go out and get pregnant so you can get assistance?

Food Stramps I think that this means Peter will be eating better than he was before because SLC and County employees do not make all that much money....in fact a policeman can qualify for assistance if they have a few kids.
I see people in line at Smiths that are buying items with their Horizon card that I would not buy because of the cost.....and they pay for their smokes and beer with cash; drives me nuts.

Not everyone abuses the system @Dogface - Good point about how nice food stamps truly are (except the fact you are treated poorly by some citizens) we eat better than we have ever eaten. Another good point that state/federal employees qualify for them (we do and both my wife and myself have state and federal jobs). But some of us are trying to improve our situation (both of us are students) so all welfare cases are not deadbeat cases.

Way to Go Mayor Show them that is how it needs to be if the want MORE... GET A JOB and by more, it is not up to us to feed them with steak and lobster..

They eat better than I do I used to be a bagger at a grocery store and most the people on food stamps ate a lot better than I do. (frozen pizza etc.) I currently know a person who has a 2007 Tahoe ($35,000) to drive and is on food stamps.

A little bit about food stamps @Brady C. - It takes into consideration what you make. Usually several things come in to consideration like what you need. Being a recipient after being self sufficient my whole life up until now I can appreciate this program for what it can be. It is not just a handout and so long as it is seen that way it is a good program. The way I see it is if I can finish my degree then I will be paying more in taxes than we have received in food stamps in the whole grand scheme of things. So it is a great service for some and for others it is the only thing they have to survive (elderly, handicapped, broken families). Not everyone is in absolute control of their situation and until you have been in that situation you may never know what I'm talking about.

That person is a deciever then @Brady C. - Someone who has such a nice car does not usually get assistance because that is considered an asset. They must not have reported it.

Maybe... @Brady C. - he should get rid of the Tahoe. I don't own one and I can feed my family...

Food Stamps If they do not get enough food stamps, then why is it I see those horizon cards at convenience stores buying candy, soda etc. And then most of the times I see items in their carts that I usually don't buy because they are too expensive as well as junk food, the good quality meats, etc. And on many occasions I have seen 5 or 6 pizza's being purchased at Pappa Murphys and then paid with a horizon card. Sheesh.... My neighbor is on food stamps and she gets more money in food stamps than my family spends with our money we earned.

Here's a constellation @asymosky - Having made more than most could imagine working construction before being seriously injured (and work compensation is not the answer $200 in two months) you still find yourself working hard even if you are on food stamps. For some it is the long hours that both parents put in that in order to have a meal it requires some additional help like Pappa Murphys or frozen meals. I agree for some food stamps are perhaps more than what some need, but it is nice when working towards being an asset to society to have this kind of help.

Horizon card @asymosky - More than food stamp benefits are on the Horizon Card, cash assistance (welfare) is also issued on the Horizon Card.

It would suck I think I would hate to have to live off of food stamps. After one week I would get a job. I know I know "but what about the single mothers...?" You make your bed...

Andrea you Rock @Andrea S. - You are absolutely right. The single mothers made their bed (or did something else in it and thats why they are in this situation) now they need to deal with it. Get a job. there are plenty of jobs you can do from home now so there is no excuse for anyone.

Really? @Kenny M. - Let's just take it out on some one we think uses this program and not the actual users. Having lived abroad much of my life I realized early on that all Americans are on some sort of welfare or something that compares to a membership club. Most things you don't even realize (whine about gas prices when they are still half what any other country has). Fact is it is not all single mothers and even if that were the only group not all of them are to blame for their situation. Many go into relationships (as far as even having children) before realizing that they are not going to be having that happily ever after they thought they were. Fact is most I know on food stamps are not single mothers but others in similar situations like myself. Many are obtaining an education to get off assistance and ultimately give back to the community. But in a place where service is practically the state motto I'm shocked to see the clueless in this message board. I truly hope you never find out first hand what it is like to be in this situation and what a blessing it truly is. Chances are many of you will and of course you will justify it then, but just the same you may be the very people you are so harshly speaking out against.

I know they are getting an education @Dcnielsen - I guess that is why I am still bitter. When I was 18 and living on my own I couldn't qualify for a grant. Many things kept me from getting it part of which were my two full time jobs that I needed to pay for my living (apt, gas, utilities, food etc). But I was told that if I was a single mother I could qualify for a grant. So if I had already screwed up my life I could get help, but if I was struggling to make it with no mistakes there was no help for me. Don't worry the story ends well. I did it...but I did it all on my own proudly.

For some it does not end well @Andrea S. - I know for me I would do whatever it takes to provide for my family, having already worked two full time jobs and attended school full-time before moving to this state I know. However it is a nice program to have available to take off a considerable amount of stress. I have already paid more taxes working as a construction worker than I will have received the remainder of time I will have on food stamps, after which I will again be making more than sufficient to make up for the cost. Having been involved in business I can attest to the fact that if you want to make some money you have to spend some money and in this case the government is spending money on me in return for what I will be able to do for society in the future. Granted it is a humiliating thing to know you are not able to do enough (but working for the state, who pays half my tuition and my wife's tuition as well as excellent healthcare for my family, what do you do?). When I was 18 living on my own I did not qualify for any financial aide (not even loans, let alone grants) because my father was an officer in the military and making far too much for me to qualify. So I went into construction and made a decent living, very decent, until I was injured. Again I did not qualify for any assistance and ended up paying my first two years of my education out of pocket. All before even qualifying for assistance.

I'm glad @Dcnielsen - I'm glad that it has helped you. It sounds like you use it the right way and apreciate it.

Good luck to you!

@Dcnielsen - Nope, like I said earlier. I work for the govt and I qualify for food stamps. I choose not to collect them and got a second job to cover what I needed. On top of that, I am also going to school and am a single father. So there arent too many excuses out there that I'm gonna buy!!

You rock @Kenny M. - Doesn't it feel so much better to just do it on your own?

Live the Dream..... @Andrea S. - Wow Andrea S. and Kenny M. How's the view from the cheap seats? I'm not sure if being a single mother qualifies as "screwing up your life", but okay. However, let's stop pretending that grant money for school or food stamps give recipients a free ride.

Why @Kathryn B. - Why are the majority of single mothers (who are on wellfare) single? The majority, not the case of the unlucky widow.

@Andrea S. - I'm not sure I see your point. It is so easy to grumble about those dang single welfare mothers! It's not as if they got that way by themselves, you know. A bigger societal issue is at play. Where is your disdain for the absent parent? Mothers, whether single or not, have an innate responsibilty to care for their children, by any means necessary. As in the case of the 'unlucky widow', life's paths are not always predictable and its not up to us to dictate what level of single motherhood is acceptable.

No @Kathryn B. - I disagree with you Kathryn and I'm sorry if you are a single mother struggling to make it on your own. Take comfort in the fact that there is tremendous support for you from the Gov't. But I don't agree that when a woman becomes single it is due to "societal issues". You make your own future based on your decisions.

@Andrea S. - Actually Andrea, I'm not a single mother and through God's grace, our family is fortunate not to struggle. I guess my hard line stance softened some as I got older and had the opportunity to realize that not everything is black and white or as simple as we would all like to believe. I hope all your decisions have been and will continue to be good ones.

Single Mothers @Kathryn B. - Gosh.....with so many single mothers, maybe it's time for the Lord to bring back polygamy.

President Spencer W. Kimball petitioned the Lord in order to give blacks the priesthood, maybe GBH can do the same on the subject of plural marriage.

Just a thought.

Single Mother @Andrea S. - No my daughter is not the unlucky widow. She is a victim of D.V. She got away from her husband by gods grace. It took him not just hurting her, but threatening the baby befor she would leave. WHY you may ask, well because she didnt want to be a single mother on aid and struggling through MORE school to try and make a better life for her daughter and herself and have ignorant people like you judge her for being on aid without knowing her story. I made her apply to get more education in one year then to struggle like I had to, raising her for 18 years with no help.

Don't be mean @Rhonda M. - Geesh can't we all just be nice without getting so testy?

Why would she be a single mother?

I'm sorry but @Kathryn B. - I'm sorry but thinking about it more. How could you not think that being a single mother at 18 is a mistake? If I was a single mother at the age 18 I feel I would have screwed up. I'm sorry you disagree and think that is a great way to start your future.

@Andrea S. - A mistake is one thing. You referred to it as 'screwed up your life'. Those are different concepts. I absolutely never implied it was a great way to start your future and my heart aches for those that were in that position. We all make mistakes and some are more visible than others. However, the direction of a persons life hopefully isn't dictated by one decision.

understand @Kathryn B. - I said that when I was 18 I could not qualify for a grant unless I was a single mother. I said "So if I had already screwed up my life I could get help, but if I was struggling to make it with no mistakes there was no help for me."

In response to my remark you said that "I'm not sure if being a single mother qualifies as "screwing up your life", but okay." Maybe you misunderstood me since I wasn't saying that being a single mother is screwing up your life but rather if I were a single mother at 18 I would have screwed up my life.

If you disagree that's fine. For alot of these mothers on welfare unfortunately one big mistake has been the direction of their life. THey never turn it around.

Andrea is Full of BS @Andrea S. - How much did mommy & daddy make sweetheart? Because any of us who have been through this process know exactly how it goes let me tell you, my brother at the age of 19 being single,working,no children apllied for a government grant and in the process work he was asked to verify his parents info and thier income at that time my parents were living check to check (and not very much at that)well guess what he was approved for his grant, so I think Andrea your version on how they turned you down is a little ill informed, it was either because your parents are wealthy enough to put you in College or you did not do your homework and filed for the wrong Grant which would not apply to your situation.

Home @4:20 - Man you are testy! Maybe you need to take a "4:20" break.

Did your brother live at home with his parents when he got his grant? If not did his debt (rent, utilities, car payment etc) equal more than his tuition would? Did he have any debt? Did he live in a different state like I did? Did you see my grant application?

My parents were poor when I moved out (at 17). And they still are. I know because I pay their auto insurance for them.

Mistake @Andrea S. - I would never consider one of my children a mistake,
I was married at 17 I have 3 children, luckly I am still married to the same man and have been for 29 years, yes we are one of the few that beat the odds, but never ever would I consider one of my beautiful children a mistake!! I am one of the few that made it and I understand why some may need help. if you have never walked in those shoes you can not judge why people do what they do, and may you never have the disfortune to walk in those shoes, some single mothers are single not because they want to be but because life takes turns they can not control, they get involved with men that turn out to be bad, yes they choose that man but people change and sometimes the person you choose is not the person you end up with. So until you have lived this do not say i would never, because life does funny things.
Never say never. as you never know.

Maybe a repeat @Jab - I hope this doesn't repeat.

I didn't say if you have a child at a young age out of wedlock that your child would be a mistake. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I said that if I got pregnant at 18 while I was single I would have screwed up my life. Maybe that isn't the case for many, it definately was not the case for you (but like you said you beat the odds).

Getting pregnant so young would have been a mistake. You obviously agree with me since you said "and may you never have the disfortune to walk in those shoes,"

Congratulations to you I'm sure that your success comes from a lot of hard work on your part.

Food stamps @Kenny M. - Kenny - how much time are you spending with your children if you're working 2 jobs and going to school? Ask them if they'd like to see you more. Maybe you should get food assistance and quit that second job.

Dcnielsen - which state agency is paying for tuition?

Liberal mom @liberalmom - I spend plenty of time with my son. Rest assured he is not missing any of my time. Its all about making time and he has plenty of it, everyday.
As far as you saying that I should get food assistance and quit the second job, I would rather work 5 jobs than be on any type of assistance from the government.

U of U @liberalmom - It's kind of tongue and cheek how it all works out, but the U of U pays half tuition for it's employees. The funny thing is despite that fact they would not give me in-state tuition and have been paying four times as much on my tuition than they would have if they gave me in-state tuition. Despite being born in this state and raised for all means and purposes military service disqualified me for in-state tuition, not because of military service but because my education was started outside of Utah. The only reason I left Utah was for military service. Go figure. Oh well, the sad part of the story is after I'm done I will probably leave this state as it has become clear that this state does not care about those who were born and raised here as much as illegal immigrants. Plus $150,000 sounds like better pay as well.

@Kenny M. - Going to school on someone elses dollar as you pointed out before which makes virtually all your comments immaterial because you don't practice what you preach.

Public Colleges and Universities @Rollin S. - Public colleges and universities are subsidized by the taxpayers. Tuition and fees do not cover all the costs of one's education.

@At2008 - So we're all beggars after all... just like Christ taught. So all these people claiming that they take care of themselves and don't ask anything of anybody of anything should be more grateful for the opportunities and breath that they take everyday? Excellent point, I think you have hit the nail squarely on the head.

@Rollin S. - Just as i said before, my tuition for my school is a benefit for my service in the U.S. Military. its no different than getting health care benefits, however, I get a paycheck for food, rent, utilities, and other day to day expenses. That is why I am against food stamps. If I cant pay my day to day expenses, I will go get a second job, just as I already have.
It was a good try to bring me down though. I'll give you that.

@Kenny M. - I responded to you above if you care to read it. In short, you have suggested that people rely on themselves instead of the gov't. My point is that your "benefit" is a cost to the taxpayers just like welfare and food stamps. I think it's a great benefit and kudos to you for taking advantage of it. But according to your own statements it makes you a hypocrite for taking advantage when you could just pay for college like everyone else instead of using the gov'ts dollars.

@Rollin S. - It absolutely does not. My education benefit is a benefit for providing this country a service. Food stamps are a free handout to someone who cant make it on their own.

@Kenny M. - You can't pay for your education on your own so you are taking a handout from the taxpayers to help you with it. It's a fairly simple concept. Thanks for your service though.

kenny m & andrea...... @Kenny M. - You are both liar hypocrytes.

I wasn't born last night.

You are not angels.

You are morally bankrupt just like the women you are critical of.

Fortunately, my wife has a second job so we have never needed food stamps.

I would rather support a single parent that stays home and takes care of her kids than requiring her to get a second job and the kids run the streets getting into drugs and who knows what else!

lOOK AT MY SIGANATURE!!

By the way we both work 2 jobs but we also have atleast one of us at home to tend the kids too!!

@Chad H. - I'm very happy for you that you and your wife are able to make it on your own. Thats all I'm preachin. I'm not saying that I'm an angel or I'm perfect, but I have a little more pride and self worth than to just sit back and let the government feed me for free. I dont know, call it, proud of making it on my own and doing what I have to do to survive without having to go to the govt for "aid." You say that by me working a second job, my son will be out on the streets getting into drugs and who knows what else. Who are you to assume that I am a bad parent, allowing my child to be out on the streets?

And just because you are "happily married to a stripper," doesnt mean that you are anybody special.

You've gone too far @Kenny M. - I was going to stay out of this conversation until I read Kenny's and Andrea's take on single mothers. I was a single mother. But not the way you all are thinking. I married a man who got himself addicted to meth and herione. After five years of putting up with his BS, I left and I did it on my own, after he took all my savings and all my assets to buy his drugs. I did go to the govt for help. I did not get food stamps but I got help on my day care, so I could work and I got medicaid for my kids because my job at the time did not offer health insurance. I admit there are a lot of people out there, who did not deserve it or need it, that made it hard for to get any assistance. But the help I did get was welcomed and helped give me that push over the dead end I thought I was heading for. So, stop assuming that all people on assistance are milking it for everything its worth. And stop judging the people who do use it. That's what taxes are for. I don't use the govt help any more and I wouldn't even if I could. After two years of assistance I was able to work myself up to a position and job where I got insurance and where I made enough to take care of my kids. So back off and go throw your accusations some where else.

Niki @NikiL - Holy Cow we have alot in common my daughter's sperm donor, (as I call him) was addicted to meth as well I was a dumb stupid kid & I thought I was un touchable well he started hitting me when I got pregnant, I didn't think I had anywhere to go. My daughter was born and 5 days old when I got the courage to leave well after a police standoff with my ex holding a gun to my head I finally broke free with my daughter. I got help from the state it wasn't to long but they helped me alot and to this day my 7 year old is a happy little angel I work only one job but it provides me with just enough to have a roof over our heads, foods in our bellies, health & dental to make sure she is and will always be cared for in those areas, we don't live a fancy life but me & her are healthy & happy, but I'm so thankful for the help I recieved and now I'm a better mother/person for it.

What @NikiL - What exactly did I say that you disagree with?

"they make their bed" @Andrea S. - That is what I disagree with. I married a man who decided to enjoy drugs instead of his family and in the process spend all our money on those drugs. Some people will ridicule me because I only gave him five years before I left him. Others say I should have left him at the beginning. Now you are saying I "made my bed". I'm sorry, maybe my crystal ball should have told me that he would turn to drugs. Next time I will consult that so I will know what the future will bring, so I won't "make my bed". I'm not saying that I shouldn't take some responsibility, but my concern was not what happened in the marriage, but that I needed to take care of two small children. Despite anything that happened I needed to make sure they had food and clothes and a roof over their head and if that meant getting government assistance because everything I owned had been taken by my ex-husband, then that is where I will go. Don't judge someone just because you think you are better than them. I don't need government assistance any more but I am happy to pay taxes to help those people out that really need it. There are a lot of people out there that don't necessarily need it and should stop milking the system, but there are people out there who do need and would be out on the streets if they didn't have it. Just remember, what goes around comes around. Don't judge unless you want to be judged too.

Agreed @NikiL - I agree with you that there are a lot even the majority that don't need it and should stop milking the system. And that is who I was referring to. I'm sorry I should have put a disclaimer on it. I also believe that there a those single mothers that do what they can to raise young children and I appreciate what they go through to make sure that is done.

I was not judging you individually. I'm sorry for your hardship. I hope better days will come for you if they have not already.

attitude @Andrea S. - nice "Christ like attitude" scooter

Im SO glad to see you havent reproduced. @Andrea S. - So far, every comment of yours I have read has been rediculous. Single mothers arent always single mothers because they slept around etc. There are victims of rape out there. But I guess you will probably come up with how "they asked for it" as a response. Its people like you in society that keep the struggling people that way. Why would they go to society for help knowing your kind was part of it?

What!? @Me Y. - I didn't say single mothers sleep around! What the heck is wrong with you? I said "they make their bed" its part of a term that you may have heard before.

My sister would agree. She made bad choices (got pregnat at 15, married a scum bag). What person that got pregnant early on or married a scum bag does not agree that it makes life harder?

Andrea S. @Andrea S. - Would that be your “wayward sister”? I doubt she’d agree with you if she knew that’s the way you talk about her on these forums. You have little respect for others and their situations. You talk about all of the hard times that you’ve made it threw; I don’t see that you’ve come out with any compassion. It sounds to me that most of the people whom have responded to you are not on welfare, yet you seem to still attack them. You keep asking what is wrong with everyone on here…what is wrong with you??? I guess I fail to see how this article is about single mothers and why everything is their fault. There are plenty of us out here who pay our own bills and take care of our own kids. Did you know that a divorce actually takes two people?? You talk about how we make our beds…well I guess we do, after we choose that the life we thought we were getting into isn’t the life we want for our children or ourselves. It sounds like your sister had to make that same sort of a choice, but I guess she made her bed as well. For that matter so do you. That is fine if you disapprove of people taking hand outs. So do I and it sounds like so do most people on here. I pay the same taxes you do to help people and I hope that they are going as a hand up not a hand out (even though I know that’s usually a lie). There are plenty of married people and especially illegal immigrants taking our taxes for welfare, but I don’t see you complaining about them. If a married couple is doing it I think its worse because you have two people that should be doing something to stay off it. The person on here that you should be complaining about is the guy who is using welfare to get threw school while he’s working and supporting his family. The reason that I say that is he says himself that he could make it on his own but chooses not to so he can live the high life while he does it and so one day he can make a six figure income. I’m not using the system to better myself; in fact I’m not using the system at all. Like I said I am a single mom, with a government job, and my child support is irregular, however somehow I manage. Therefore I resent you knocking me, as a single mother, when everyday I give everything I have to make it. I hate single mom haters! Life is funny, watch what you say. :)

No @retch2k - It is not my wayward sister. It is my sister who the second time around found the perfect man. She agrees that she made bad choices and she said if she could do it over again she would. She is rational she is not going to sit and pretend that she couldn't have done things different. She had to get help from the gov't in between husbands. It helped her get back on her feet. As it does all single mothers who make bad choices. I understand that there are some who have no control like the lady whose husband became addicted to drugs and she relied on him for her stability. But what about the girl who calls her "baby's daddy" a sperm donor? Now that was a meaningful relationship. Especially since she admits he was addicted to meth and something else I don't remember. How do you think that makes those feel that are paying for these meth addicted "sperm donors" babies just because somebody made a bad choice?

There are several women who I think the system is good for. They are in horrible situations that could hurt their children and I sincerely believe they need it. But the majority rules and these women are not the majority.

Most who are responding to me are on welfare. I am on the attack because I do not believe that a woman should rely on a man for financial stability, education or direction. Because when that man leaves them where do they go? A woman should stand on her own so that when the men around them let them down, they don't fall. Why am I a villain for believing that?

I know that life is about bad choices I pay for the bad choices I make by struggles that I get through on my own. I can do it on my own. I don't need a man and I don't need the government.

I apologize to all of you that are so offended by that. Sincerely. Have an open mind and accept a difference of opinion.

Excuse Me Andrea @Andrea S. - You have no idea what i've been through I was a 16 year old GIRL when I ran away with this older guy that I thought was a great man I did not know that he was into meth noor did I want him to hold me down and inject me with it either and then when I tried to leave he beat the living He!! out of me & threatened to kill me and my family, I was just a child and when I finally broke free after a police standoff with him holding a gun to my head and a shattered rib cage I took my new born and never looked back, so i'm sorry he is a sperm donor he was never a father and still is not, actually he is sitting in prison the last I heard, so Andrea maybe you can shut the he!! up, I was on a program called WIC sweetheart where they gave me vouchers for formula and I was only on that until my daughter was 6 months old and then I had a great job that provided for me and her she is almost 8 now and never since that period have I ever had to be back on,& no I don't recieve child support noor doea the church or my family help me, so obviously I made something with my life, I made mistakes but I learned from them and moved on, please don't act like you know me Andrea.

@Andrea S. - And don't act like you have supported my child sweetheart I have a [no swearing please]good career and have got quite a few licenses hanging on my wall in my private office, I pay alot in taxes a hell of alot more then they ever gave me when I was 16, Andrea my point is not everyone uses and abuses the system, there are people out there in need and to be so ignorant as to just keep pointing out single welfare mommies I think you need to take a step back and look at reality, there is alot of people that don't belong to this country noor do they pay taxes but yet they are draining are welfare system, that is where alot of the problem lies.

4:20 @4:20 - Amen! Good for you to not let the jerk ruin you. It takes a real woman to stand again and face the world and make her life better. I have a lot of respect for you and other women like you.
Even though my ex was addicted to meth and herione he fortunately never hurt me. I believe he loved me and my kids but the drugs were too powerful for him. He actually passed away two years ago from a drug over dose. He had been clean for two years and was making amends with his kids, but those drugs called him back and ended his life. He was a good man, but the drugs made him into a person that no one recognized.

Much better Andrea @Andrea S. - I agree with you on the fact that a woman should not rely on a man. I made that mistake, even though I was working, but it was not an income I could rely on without my husband. So yes I did "make my bed" when it came to relying on my husband for most everything. Since my divorce I have been finishing my bachelors degree and I am nearly done. I have advanced very high in my current job and make a very good income. I didn't let my divorce ruin me, but I did need the assistance to help me get through the hole I was in. Now I am married to a wonderful man and hopefully I will be able to quit my job in the next year and be home with my kids for this very critical time in their lives. However, if the need comes where I need to take care of myself and my kids again, I will have the resources and the ability to get a good job and not rely on the government for help. I accept your apology. There are a lot of people who are on welfare that do not need it, but use it because it does give them the high life. And it is sad to see them abuse the system when there are so many others who really need it.

When I went into get assistance the lady I spoke to told me to quit my job and use welfare in its entirety. I was appalled that someone would tell me to rely completely on the government and never let myself advance and get away from the system. I took the least assistance that I needed and left. I think our welfare should be used for the most needy and should not be used by a two parent family. I work, go to school, my husband works and goes to school and some how we support my two kids and his two kids, own a house and two cars and we don't need government assistance. I don't know why others in the same situations as us, do need it, but I guess that is not my problem. It is too bad and too sad that people milk the system making it harder for others who really need it, get it.

With my comments, I am just saying that you should not judge a book by its cover. You have never walked in any other shoes buy yours. It is hard not to judge especially when you have been through hard times yourself. But people are touchy about their own hard times and don't think others should judge them for those times. Just be careful and considerate of others feelings and realize you have never been where they've been. Even if you have had similar situations, you will never go through exactly what they went through and you will never know how they felt. It is different for everyone.

Okay @NikiL - I will. Thank you.

@Andrea S. - And there you have it. 4:20, niki, your sister and I are all examples of single mothers who had a temporary bad spell in life and used the system briefly to get on our feet and are all self reliant individuals who give back to our community today. That is exactly what offended me in the first place, it's not fair to comment about single mothers abusing the system when here are four of us standing up as examples that maybe we can mess up our lives but we can also become better in the end because of it. I wouldn't change my life at all for all the lessons I've learned, and in the end Andrea, it sounds like due to your personal experience you somewhat agree with the system helping as long as its not abused. Therefore you shouldn't be so fast to shout out. We have all worked hard to be where we are today and your previous comments were taking away from our accomplishments. I appreciate you smoothing your tone, it takes a big person to do that. Have a nice day.

Okay @retch2k - It was a generalized statement Retch2k. I knew that their would be individuals (you, Niki) that it did not apply to, but like Niki said we are sensitive to our own trials. Mine is schooling to the underprivileged.

Look at it this way @retch2k - If nothing else came out of my discussion with you, at least we each picked up a suitable tag line.

Food stamps and Drugs A report said that each year some $660 million are funneled from Food Stamp benefits into the illegal economy. It's criminal fraud and diversion. Recipients trade their Food Stamps for drugs and money and go on their way.

Six hundred and sixty million dollars.

Almost three dollars from every man, woman and child in the United States. Taken right off the top of some do-gooder program theoretically intended to put food in poor people's mouths.

But instead, it puts drugs in their veins, and millions of dollars into the bank accounts of drug lords large and small. Massive foreign drug cartels and marauding street gangs all enriching themselves from the national treasury.

The decay of America's urban neighborhoods is being paid for by the federal government.

It may feed some people, but does that outweigh the damage it does them and their communities? Is it worthwhile for the federal government to dole out some food while simultaneously fueling the rampant destruction of lives and families?

The harm done America by the infusion of $660 million into the drug economy is far more significant than the good done by food-targeted welfare.

But it doesn't have to be an either-or choice. It's not keep Food Stamps or get rid of Food Stamps. The issue is, if America really wants to subsidize the impoverished in this manner, how to make Food Stamps into a program that delivers food, not drugs.

The largest obstacle to that will remain the honesty of recipients. If the people benefiting from the largess of the federal taxpayer simply followed the rules and obeyed the law, there wouldn't be a problem. The odd fact is that the Food Stamp program must be saved from the dishonesty of the people it benefits.

There ought to be some way to help the truly hungry without underwriting the nation's criminal economy.

Of course, any overhaul of Food Stamps will be rejected by advocates for the poor and by the Democratic Party. Activists will march behind the banner of hungry children and probably succeed in expanding the program, instead of curtailing it.

It's hard to see how that might work @Sea Elephant - Seeing how food stamps work it is hard to believe how your claim may even work. Narcotics is something I know quite a bit about having never experimented with them, rather studied and worked against them. Most funds in narcotics do not come from food stamps and it would be extremely difficult to make it work as you suggest. Maybe some references are in order. When making a drug deal, what, give them a gallon of milk for an ounce of crack? If you want to see where this program is being exploited see illegal immigrants. As an interpreter I have seen many illegal immigrants receiving this kind of aide (and no they are not fueling the drug trade). Perhaps initiatives should be offered to get people off; I have my own with obtaining a degree, but for others that may be better. Unfortunately, there are some who only have this kind of assistance until they start working again and then lose everything and are unable to obtain education that would ensure they would not return to be a recipient of this assistance.

it's the barter system @Dcnielsen - you buy some weed,
find a stoner with foodstamps,
trade your 50.00 of weed for 110.00 in foodstamps.

This is True @Sea Elephant - I know of people who buy the Food Stamp Debit Card from people for half the worth so the person on Food Stamps can buy other things.

I turned them in but did the state do anything about it. [no swearing please]! it is still happening.

That's one way @Emily W. - I still don't see how that much mentioned above could be going to narcs. I would just like to see the statistic on where that info is coming from.

Ever try to get your "facts" correct? @Sea Elephant - > A report said that each year some $660 million are funneled

Several seconds on google produced this reference:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/oane/MENU/Published/FSP/FILES/ProgramIntegrity/Trafficking1999-2002.htm

Program integrity has improved substantially. About $395 million per year was diverted from food stamp benefits by trafficking between 1999 and 2002. This is less than two-thirds of the $660 million per year diverted between 1996 and 1998 and less than half of the $815 million diverted in 1993.


That says about $400 million per year is diverted into the trafficking economy. That is just a small drop in the bucket when compared to approx $30 billion budget for Food Stamps.

Using Hannity-type tactics to make your point don't really make sense in this age of instant information.


Renegade Priest - Gary

I would love a food stamp budget! Let me see. 1.05 per person per meal....2 adults and 4 children. That makes $6.30 per meal and 3 meals a day makes it 18.90.

Provided that I did my math correctly, 30 days worth of meals is $567.00 per month for food. I don't get food stamps and my family of 6 lives off of $350.00 month for food!

What are you eating Steak and Shrimp?

And we're not starving! We each pork, chicken, hamburgers...so we could go even less if we had to.

C'mon, people. This should be "assistance" to get back on your feet, not a way of life!

Being on the system I agree @Russell P. - I was shocked to hear how much we qualified for and we have yet to use it all in any given month. We use only what we need (or should I say what helps) and take care of the rest by ourselves. I have only been on assistance for 9 months and don't imagine I'll be on it after another year. But it makes things much easier in the end and I will continue to be an advocate for it. The only thing I think it should offer is direction/motivation to get off the program in a productive way. Far too often people are taken off of it without any means to ensure they won't end back up on it again. Not everyone has plans to get a degree and have jobs already lined up that will pay them enough to give back, let alone the desire to do so.

ya right. 350 for a family of 6. @Russell P. - Enjoy your ramen 3 meals a day.

I doubt you have a family or children with a claim like that...

Um.. @ICS4S - I have a family of 5 and we live off about $200 for food. So a family of 6 living of $350 a month is totally possible. It is called good budgeting.

Wow. @Scybo - I am horrible with money. We spend about $300/week for a family of four. I suck at this budgeting game.

@Andrea S. - Andrea, I was just wondering if you have any good qualities???

right @Scybo - show me how you can feed 5 people for $200 a month... or ~45 cents per person per meal.

ICS4S @ICS4S - Its like Scybo said, it is good budgeting. I have a family of 4, plus my two step kids every other weekend and twice a week and we live off $350 a month for groceries. And we buy too much junk food if you ask me. So if we eliminated some of that junk food we could live off of even less than $350. We don't buy steak or roasts very often. We eat chicken and fish more.
If someone can do it for $200 a month, then they are experts at the budgeting thing. I know I could be alot better.

Then.... @Scybo - You must eat a bunch of crap and an unbalanced diet. I have 2 kids and we could never live on $200 a month. We eat lots of fruits and vegetables and good lean protien (fish). I choose to spend more money to keep my family healthy rather than have them running around with snotty noses all the time or grow up fat because they eat high carb high fat disgusting food.

$350 for 6? @Russell P. - Please, please, please tell me how you do it? I do everything I can -- price match, coupons, sales, internet ads, etc. and I spend about $500-$600 a month for 5 people. We don't eat steak except for maybe once a month, if that. I don't buy a lot of junk food or soda for my kids. In fact, buying healthy fruits and vegetables is more expensive.

Ideas @Connie R. - Here are a couple of ideas.

Don't buy name brands. They are often much more.

Coupons don't always make sense for two reasons. I have seen people buy something they wouldn't normally buy just because they had a coupon. Plus even with the coupon a store brand is often cheaper.

If you are spending that much for food I would guess you are buying a lot of extras, which is ok if you want to spend that much.

We have a budget of $130.00 every two weeks for a family of four.

Family of 8 here @J. H. - and we have a budget of 210 every two weeks for food.

My secret? No name brands, meat as an ingredient instead of a main course. (We do have a roast on Sunday). If pork is on sale, then it's a pork week. Butter on sale this week? Buy a ton, the price may go up next week.

No, we don't eat ramen and mac and cheese, I swore that off after college!

It just takes planning, Spaghetti is cheap, beef stroganoff is cheap, etc.

You can make tasty food at fractions of the cost if you plan and do some research.

I could go on @Ppyper - all day. Another trick? Macey's freezer meats. The stuff that didn't sell the day before is cheaper in the morning in the center freezer by the meat. I freeze meat until I use it anyway, so I don't mind if it's frozen. Also, go to deli's right before they close. They'd rather sell something cheap then toss it. At Kohlers in Highland right before the bakery closes you can get a large bag and fill it full for $1.99. I've gotten about $20 worth of bread this way. I got a Mother's day cake this morning for an FHE treat tonight..... $.99 (it was 3.99 on Sat).

I'll stop now, even if more ideas come to me. I think I've made my point.

Forgot to mention @J. H. - we don't stock up on chips, soda, treats, snacks. not only does that help the budget, but it helps our waistlines.

We will occasionaly buy this stuff, but rarely.

Also in the summer we plant a garden, saves a TON! If you plant things like spaghetti and acorn squash, they can be stored in the basement for use all winter (they are called winter squash). I still have about 5 left in my basement from last fall.

Hooah! @Ppyper - I still have tomatoes from last fall as well, not to mention meat in my freezer from the hunt. And I agree meat does not have to be a meal. I have learned the truly exquisite taste of meat only after making it a part of a meal. "Junk" food is one person's way of judging another. I don't pretend to know the circumstances of others as so many here do. Want to enforce those abusing the system, I'm for it. Just as I'm for enforcing the speed limits (I don't speed). In my household we eat a lot of things like beans, and rice (talk about affordable) it's our own ethnicity. We also get "junk" food for snacks for the kids as well as for our selves. An interesting fact is in our day and age "junk" food is actually cheaper than good wholesome foods. But what do I know, I'm on food stamps. Again great comment Ppyper.

I love rice!! @Dcnielsen - I don't think I could cook w/o it, I use it so often. Inexpensive and versatile! Needless to say, we aren't low carb types are we? *LOL*

How do you store tomatoes? I've heard that you can do it, but I've never heard how.

good math @Russell P. - however I do not know any family that receives 567.00 a month in food assistance. And yes 110 a week for one week is easy, the question is does he actually have to stick to fixing meals on what he was given or is he allowed to use the storage he has at home, people have to by the cheap, unhealthy food to make ends meet like it said they can by the pizza for 1.50 and feed everyone something or by apples and give them nutrition. you can not buy quanity and quality.

@Jab - I know someone who was using assitance for a little while that recieved over $400 per month. This was for 2 adults and one newborn. Keep in mind formula was also provided in addition to the $400. This amount was way too much for the two adults and they never used all of it in a month it just happened to be what they qualified for.

I don't get the math @Russell P. - Mayor Corroon has a family of 4 and $1.05 per meal...
4 people X 3 meals per day X 7 days per week = 84 meals
84 meals X $1.05 = $88.20

Did the good Mayor go over budget or does he have a family of 5?
5 X 3 X 7 X $1.05 = $110.25

Maybe there's something else they haven't mentioned in the story, but I don't understand the math!

Food stamp budget @Russell P. - That amount assumes the maximum benefit, anyone who has earned or unearned income (disability, social security) does not get the full amount. 85% of the food stamp caseload gets less than that. In Utah the per meal benefit is 96.3 cents, $1.05 is the national average.

it is possible ok..first of all....eating for $3.15 per person per day isn't really that difficult..but it does require effort, thought, and planning. Food Stamps and other welfare programs are supposed to be a helping hand ...to boost people back up to providing for themselves....about supplementing..and subsistence....not about convenience...and certainly not intended for a person to "eat better than they ever have....while reading the internet at thier State Government Job...going to school..and raising a family after spending much of thier life travelling" DCNIELSON...doesn't sound like you have any business complaining...in fact it sounds like you are the perfect example of why those of us that work are butts off to pay our own way get so upset about those that take advantage of the system...

no..I couldn't afford to travel the world..I worked full time to put myself through college...at one point I had $18 for food for an entire month...that was all that was left after paying tuition! Children...nope...couldn't afford them...so didn't have them...

If you need a helping hand...great! No problem, but understand that we are going to be upset when we see you buying beer with cash...then crappy unhealthy food with your benefits....and many of us have seen that many times! Similarly...we are going to be upset that you call us insensitive...while you proudly proclaim that you are taking benefits...while eating better than you ever have!!

Travelling? @Nobadges - Is that what military service is called today? I'm not complaining, just defending the system.

what I see.. with the food stamps is this. People getting sodas, chips, frozen foods, junk foods, trading the stamp cards in for cash. All the other things I seen mentioned here.

What I am not seeing are neighborhood gardens, share programs, co-op buying, bulk food buying, and a number of things that could help people manage with a lower food budget.

If you'll read history, back during WWII, you'll see great examples of how to manage life with less.

Cut the cable tv, smokes, coke, and junk food, plan meals to serve more than once, and watch how easy it is to feed your families, and live off a lower amount.

Look closer @Copperpenny - Our food co-op accepts food stamps. Maybe it's a University student thing. Not aware of people selling their cards. It also depends on what you purchase. We make most of our food from scratch so occasionally we do get a nice meal sometimes once a month (and still don't use all our food stamp balance).

If you can't feed them don't breed them... Maybe instead of shopping on foodstamps he should work in a grocery store and get a clear idea of what foodstamp users are buying. Don't get me wrong I am for the program. I know it helps a lot of families get back on their feet. What I am not for however, are those that use and abuse it. Bringing more babies into this world just to get more money. There needs to be a tighter screening process for foodstamp applicants. I definitely think that if you are fully capable of working you should have a set amount of time to find a job and get back on your feet. I personally have three job so no one can tell me that there is no work available. It's called being an adult.

Similar Tactics When I read this article identifying the food shopping tactics the Mayor and his family are using to live on Food Stamps, I recognized they are the same tactics my family uses but we don't even get food stamps!

I think they could have done better @Sam - We have absolutely no problem spending less than what we are alotted. Perhaps you need to develop a taste for things like rice and beans. I'm sure some even notice the exotic foods in our cart and make these stupid fast judgments I see in this forum as well. Fact is an avocado may be expensive if you think everyone eats one, but when it is used to garnish your already affordable menu it is reasonable. Plus with kids, you can never have enough snacks. I'm sure the junk food in our cart makes some think we're headed for obesity, another fast judgment. Our activity levels and metabolism help digest the junk food along with the healthy stuff. I have to say good thing some in this forum are not deciding things based off half truths and I think this is a wonderful learning time for my own family. Something I have told my family over and over (and we're actually living up to in our meanial income increases) is that even when we are not so poor we need to live well within our means thereby having more to spend elsewhere (i.e. taking care of family, donating to certain organizations, etc.)

Thats great, but.... I'm not on food stamps and never have been, but when reading this article and looking at the pictures, one has to wonder. The mayor was able to buy food for his family under the 110 limit. But do you see his 2 kids in the shopping cart? I am sure they don't eat a whole lot. What about the families who have teenagers (12-17). They seem to eat a lot more and need the additional calories in their diet.
I also agree with the person who posted earlier that the city people need to work at the check-out stand to actually see what they are buying. Why can't they limit like what W.I.C. does and have certain stamps for certain things like peanut butter, milk, eggs and so on. It seems to me that people can use these stamps for chips and soda. Tell me if I'm wrong because I am not familiar with the program, but I believe I am correct.

food stamps I also work in a store. We are constantly reminded not to be rude or act any differently to the person using food stamps than we are to every other customer. First, they get far more money to feed there families than I have to spend on my own family. The thing that discourages me is when I see what they buy or I hear them complain. Iam always seeing the young kids of these families coming in with their friends using the family food card and buying tons of junk food for them and their friends. The other thing that bothers me is when they use their food card to buy groceries and then in the next transaction they purchase 1 or 2 cartons of cigerttes and a case of beer. No I have nothing against the purchase of any of these items but they are LUXURIES and if you can afford them purchase your own food and let someone who truly needs the assistance use it. The food stamp program is like any other program it takes just a few who abuse it to make hard for the ones who truly need it. Also I believe the ones who truly need and appreciate it dont complain they are grateful for such a valuble program.

Really? @Jeff W. - When I worked in a store you couldn't but beer and cigerettes on food stamps. And checking the states website for verification this is still true. When someone comes through with a total you swipe their foodstamp card and then a seperate amount comes up that includes all non food items. You couldn't by already heated iteam. There are many restrictions to food stamps. It is not free money to spend on what you'd like.

I realized also @lindz - Did you know that Mc Donalds accepts food stamps?
I have a 'friend' that said that she needed some 'girl' products, I did understand that need and she told me that all she had was her food stamps, I gave her money and told her just to grab something for my kids to eat at the store like a frozen pizza, or something of the sort (it was lunch time) She came back with McDonalds....

From the Foodstamp website @BC MOM - Households CAN use food stamp benefits to buy:

Foods for the household to eat, such as:

breads and cereals;
fruits and vegetables;
meats, fish and poultry; and
dairy products.

Seeds and plants which produce food for the household to eat.

Households CANNOT use food stamp benefits to buy:

Beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes or tobacco

Any nonfood items, such as:

pet foods;
soaps, paper products; and
household supplies.
Vitamins and medicines.
Food that will be eaten in the store.
Hot foods

BC MOM @BC MOM - To the best of my knowledge, Mc D's does not accept food stamps. I wonder if your friend did her shopping at a WalMart with a McD's inside the store. WalMart accepts food stamps and you can pay for your McD's order at the register with your purchase. As long as it's a food item, I wonder if their registers would distinguish between them?? Interesting.

@lindz - obviously I did not make my self clear enough I did not say that they purchased beer or cigerettes with their food stamps I said that they would use their food stamps and then do ANOTHER transaction and pay for their beer and cigerettes with cash, cash that I said should have ben used to purchase their food which as we all know is a nessessity and I think we can agree that beer and cigerettes are not. Like I stated the system is a good one people have just figured out that like everything else there is a way to abuse it so that the people who really need it have a harder time getting it. I agree it is not free money but you can spend it on what you want if what you want is chips, soda and lots of candy and all of the other really health foods that are being bought.

$110 a week? I have a family of 6 and I live off of about $110 a week. We don't eat like poor people either... you can do it if you try!

What a shame I actually sat here and read most of these comments. Just because someone is on Food Stamps or State Assistance doesn't mean they are a freeloader. The programs were put there to help people over difficult times. I've paid into this system for many many years and I for one am glad that the program was there in my time of need (had an accident and unable to work) while I wait for the other government people to get off the duffs and start my disability (been waiting over a year now) I find that is so crazy that when you pay into something for so long and you have don't have a choice but to pay it, that when you are in need you live below standards for anyone because you are forced to wait while our government plays their little games. So before you get on someone for needing help why not find out why they need the help. I know there are people that abuse the system but please don't put everyone in your little story book as being deadbeats because I for one would love to work if it didn't hurt so bad to sit for more than 20 minutes at a time, or walk, stand up to cook for myself or clean my house. I think it is so wrong for anyone to judge something that they have no clue about. And this one is for you Floyd

Good Luck @Donna M. - For you on your recovery. I haven't really read most of the comments, but you read a few and see that mainly the frustration is with those who abuse the system, or even those who do need it but that are so ungrateful and critical of the amazing help that's available for people like you in hard circumstances.

It does get draining when you struggle without the help of food stamps, and sacrifice the "life style" choices of cable/satellite TV, cell phones, vacations, newer than a decade old car, cigarettes/beer, soda/candy/junk food, etc. Then you see people accepting these food stamp benefits who are still managing to have all of those things you are doing without, or at least a significant portion of them.

I don't think it's fair to categorize everyone on assistance as the same. Just as it isn't fair to disregard the bad just because there are a lot of good.

Easy $110 for a family of four (two adults, two kids)?

Remember, they give you food stamps for a full month. So that really is more like $440/mth. But this challenge is actually less than a food stamp family gets anyway -- for a family of four it is actually $518/mth or more like $130/wk. (http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/applicant_recipients/fs_Res_Ben_Elig.htm).

And if you buy some staple things like flour, eggs, oil, sugar, etc. in your first week, you really can go a lot further on that "allowance".

Not to mention that if you are pregnant or your children are under six, you can qualify for WIC, which gives you free milk, cereal, cheese, OJ, etc. So you get that PLUS foodstamps!

I feed my own family on less than two-thirds of what food stamp "allowance" is for the family with the same number in their household. And no one hands me my food budget in a form of a little plastic card to swipe at the check out -- sales tax free!! When it comes out of your own pocket, you learn how to eat healthily and without that expense.

Likewise @Wrong-righter - Our family of 6 can survive just fine on less than $518 a month- granted we don't eat "high on the hog" but, we make due with that and we do meal planning and clip coupons. It does not work for everyone, however. I wish that it did. When you owe someone else something, even if it's only an explanation why you need their help and not a monetary debt, it's like being in bondage...

Let's take a look at what it takes to get the $518/mo... @Nozeerozee - look at the math...to get $518/mo you must have $0 countable income. Let's use $800 gross income for this example:
$800 - 20%(work deduction) = $640
standard deduction of around $145 brings the income down to $495.
There is a maximum shelter deduction of $417. To get this you take $495 and divide by 2($247.50), anything over this amount paid to rent & utilities(gas & electric) is deductable(which comes to $665 in rent & utilities). This brings the countable income down to $78, which means at $800 gross monthly income you would not be eligible for the full $518 in food stamps.

I wish I could have $110/week to spend on food.

it's a crutch not a way of life i'm tired of people using the foodstamp issue like it's the only way there is to buy food. here's an idea treat it like an emergency (it is) and go into survival mode. frozen pizzas? how about potato's for about 5 bucks and root crops that will sustain you. i'm glad it is there to help but there need to be limits on how long someone can stay on the program, and if it's so tough to make that budget strech give a list of what to buy. beggars can't be choosers, you need a full belly of good food not just hot pockets and pizzas.

Family of 6 on $95 per week We are not on food stamps but we spend only $95 per week on our food and snacks, etc. It is tight and it does takes planning and self restraint but it is possible. However, I must say that we don't buy soda, candy, or "junk food". Our biggest expence is produce, about $35-40, and so it is very possible to eat healthy foods without a heafty price tag.

Everyone here is bashing the foodstamp programs. What about the other government programs? Should we abolish Medicad and Medicare? How about the pell grants? What about tax breaks for people who have children?

There are thousands of government assited programs, but you are only focusing on one and bashing the people within it.

I am not on foodstamps, just to clarify that. But I have a neighbor who is. She is now a single mother of three kids. She was a stay at home mom who raised her children. She was also in an abusive relationship. She finally was able to escape. She now works a fulltime job that pays her $11/hour. She can't get a higher paying job because she doesn't have the skills. She can't get the skills because she has to work over 40 hours a week to support the three children she has. Is she a deadbeat because she uses foodstamps?

Should the people that can't afford food for whatever reason starve and die on the streets? That is what happens in countries where the povertly level citizens have no government support.

Socialism is defined as, any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

Food assistance, educational assistance and medical assistance do not equal pure socialism. They are programs that civilized democratic societies have in order to give those who haven't had full sucess in life an chance to find their way.

Good Job The fact that Mayor Corroon would accept that challenge speaks well of him. Good job, Mr. Mayor.

It boils down to Education Choices in our lives start early. I know the clock can not be turned back, but there is a responsibility to teach that entitlement is not a right. You should work for what you have. If you can not separate your wants from your needs, you will be needing financial assistance sometime in your lifetime.

I have six children, lost my job, searched for several weeks and now commute 45 miles each way. I took a 25% cut in pay. However, because I make managing my income a very high priority, no one from the outside would speculate my single income family, living below poverty level, is in need of assistance of any kind. And no, I do not, and have not received government or church assistance. I work and my kids work to earn their own spending money.

Where there is a will, there is a way. You just have to want it bad enough (meaning you are willing to work until every muscle in your body aches).

Mayor tries food stamp budget. My initial response to this story -- was good for the Mayor!!! Having been a single working mom of 4 young children, and not earning enough to pay for groceries, and who's ex-husband would quit his job so he didn't have to pay child support -- I have been in the position of using food stamps. I agree with the mayor's position of having to plan and budget in order to make it on food stamps. I would get out cook books and favorite recipes, plan nutritional and kid-friendly menus and then write out the grocery list. The calculator always went to the grocery store. Then, I thought to read the comments and hoped to hear from other single parents working and having to use food stamps. That was disheartening -- it seemed to have developed into a harangue against the LDS Church and the bishop's warehouse. I was able to work hard, and eventually make enough to be able to self-sufficient. That is the point of both the food stamp program and the bishop's warehouse -- isn't it? To give you a hand up, not a hand out. I was disappointed by the harangues against the LDS Church and so will probably refrain from reading the comments posted on KSL again. GOOD JOB MAYOR for trying to see the other side of the picture!!!

Kudos To mayor Corroon for taking the challenge.
I totally think that he is right on when he says it is about budgeting, and having a plan, my family survives on that a week and my family is the same size
Casseroles are easy and nutritous, I make alot of old LDS recipes that have been handed down for a century
they are nutritous, low fat, Filling and I am not even LDS, But you can make nutrtious MEALS without sacrificing alot more in price, processed foods always cost more, one of my favorite recipes Funeral Potatoes and you can put ham with it or Sausage or chicken and feeds a family of 5 for .90 each and so throw a frozen veggie with that there is your .15
I love mormon recipes they are delicious and nutritous and are very economical to make,
Maybe The State shoudl put some of those old recipes together in a cookbook and issue them to food stamp recipients some of them may not know how to cook or don't have time between jobs and other things and those kinds of recipes surely taste good and kids love them, even if not just for a change or to help them carry there food stamps out a little longer
all kids need popsicles all kids deesrve a treat of Ice cream and ther eis nothing wrong with that either
I think that the point is that they are not making it thorugh the whole month without running out. and my opinion is you can always learn something new, in times of hardship, if you need to feed your family for an extra 5 days on the same budget with skyrocketing food and gas prices make like the people who had to live on rations during the depression, they made it, So ounce of prevention is the best cure
learn to budget and cook with the times I don;t suspect it is going to get any better either

Let me live on his salary for a week. eom

Help, Please? Rather than all the pros and cons about food stamps, how about helping those of us who struggle to feed a family on a budget by submitting a low-cost recipe we can use to plan our menus? I will start with a family favorite...Taco Soup
* 1 to 1 1/2 pounds ground beef or turkey
* 1 med to large onion chopped
* 2 tbsp. oil
* 1 can corn-undrained (optional)
* 1 can black beans-undrained
* 1 can kidney beans-udrained
* 2 cans chopped tomatoes with chiles
* 1 can tomato sauce (regular size)
* 1 envelope taco seasoning

PREPARATION:
Add chopped onion to hot oil in fry pan. Cook until tender; add ground meat and cook until no longer pink. Drain well and transfer to crockpot. Add corn, black beans, kidney beans, tomatoes, tomato sauce, and taco seasoning; stir well. Cook on low for four to six hours. When serving, top soup with broken taco chips and shredded cheddar cheese. Enjoy!!!
Serves 6 to 8.

Great Idea @Island girl - I love your idea. Instead of everyone being upset, let’s actually do something (instead of complaining) and help one another out by submitting our ideas and recipes.

I go grocery shopping every two weeks. I have a budget and a two week meal planner I take with me. Also if you choose to shop at a store that allows you to price match that will save you additional money. My two week meal planner includes at least 6-7 freezer meals I make that night after shopping for those days when I do not have a whole lot of time to actually cook. I save a lot of money this way, which is good since we do not have a lot since both my husband and I are attending school. I spend about 50-60 dollars every two weeks for a family of three.

This is a new recipe I came across that I love:

CHEESY Chicken and Rice Bake

1 can condensed cheddar cheese soup
1 cup water
1 cup shredded cheddar cheese
¾ cup regular white rice (minute rice works as well)
1-2 cups frozen broccoli (optional)
4 skinless, boneless chicken breasts halves or 2 whole chicken breasts

In a large bowl mix all ingredients together. Pour into a baking dish. Bake at 375 degrees F for about 45-50 minutes or until chicken and rice are done.

sustain life and not life style! We were refugees back in 1975. We were on goverment and church welfare for very short period of time (3 months). We lived in a single-wide trailer (2 bedrooms and 1 bath) with 8 adults and 3 children. We went to night school to learn to speak english. We all have jobs at different places making minimum wages. You have to be frugal and learn how to manage your money. It is not how much you have/make but how much you will save!!! This country provide you so many opportunities and you can't go hungry in this country!!!

Here we go again..... Why does every topic bring up LDS vs. non LDS? Lets look at this for what it is.

My family of 4 lives on a $250 per month grocery budget. I would love to have $100 a week to spend on groceries. I worked for Wal-Mart for 6 years and saw what people buy with food stamps. Roughly 60% buy junk like soda and chips, or expensive stuff like shrimp and stake, followed with a bunch of raman noodles. Drives me crazy! They should require a budgeting course with food stamps. Help people learn how to help themselves financially.

We're not taught anymore to live within our means. To have to eat simply sometimes is a have too. To live on food stamps should only be temporary, not a way of life. It is only to help out for a temporary situation. When my family was younger I would find out what the alotted amount was for food stamps for our family and base our buget on that amount. Some one said you can't have steaks on that amount. Like anything else in life if you want the high priced stuff you need to have the income to get it. A high life style has to be earned it is not a RIGHT!

Welfare sucks Not only does it hurt one's self esteem, it isn't a cure all. But when you have nothing else, it's much welcome help. My family was on welfare assistance when I was younger. We never had what our friends had, food wise, or clothes wise. The mayor didn't get it, but his wife did. We always had enough at the beginning of the month. That last week however, sometimes it got very lean until the next month. My mom used it even so so she could go to nursing school and get us off the welfare truck by making good money. I found it odd that a recent article stated 1/3 of Utahns live paycheck to paycheck, yet finding jobs that pay living wages here is harder than imagined.

As for the LDS church, it is just ONE resource people who need help can go to. No guarantees of course as people have stated here, but it might be of help.

I think what the Mayor is doing is great - However??? Is the Mayor willing to not go out on Lunch appointments or dinner dates and etc. These can make a difference in how much it impacts someone on food stamps. People on food stamps do not go out to eat and have public functions to attend. I can't speak from experience but if I can only imagine that if your on food stamps and are limited to what you can buy then you may still end up wanting in the end for lack of funds and sufficient food.

What does everyone else think?

Food stamp budget? They think that not being able to buy anything you want and having to buy store brands is a food stamp budget? How about just a normal people budget? I have a family of four, and we make just about exactly the average income, and we certainly can't afford California Pizza Kitchen pizzas and brie cheese. Those Jeno's pizzas only cost a dollar, and has anybody noticed how much cheese of any kind costs? Corroon sounds like a completely out-of-touch rich person if he thinks most people can just go to the grocery store and buy everything they think looks tasty. You don't have to be poor to have to be careful how you plan your food budget; grocery shopping is one of our biggest expenses. The article is totally right though about "healthy" food being much more expensive than just something to fill your belly. I learned even back when I was single that anything healthy or low-fat or whatever costs a lot more than the regular stuff.

making homemade laundry soap can add more money to your food buget Compare this laundry soap recipe with a $20.00 120 load box of Tide and you will save big and you will have more money to spend on food!

http://www.thefamilyhomestead.com/laundrysoap.htm

I buy my bars of soap for this recipe when Walgreens has thier bars of soap on sale for 5 cents an ounce. making it even cheaper than what the website shows.

Homemade laundry soap @Kyle S. - THANK YOU!!! I think this was the most beneficial contribution to this board!

I love how we got off the subject here. Went from socialism, to the LDS church back to god knows what else. The point of the story was for people who had money to try and make a budget work with what the state government gives families to live on when they are in need of help. Not everyone on state assistance abuses the system they are really in need, but it seems to me that people was to put everyone in the catergory of abuse just because they've fallen on hard times. Maybe those you that are complaining about the state helping people should find someone in need and help them out of your own pocket, maybe then you will see what they are going through. The saying goes walk a mile in my shoes. I for one am very thankful the state assistance as I cannot work (injury) and now have been waiting over a year and a half for Social Security to get off the duffs and start my benefits that I've paid into most of my life (since I started working at 12) Yes I said 12, working durning the summer to help support my family when they were in need. So get off your soap box and get with the program, you haven't a clue why most people are on state assistance but you want to think everyone on it is abusing it. So sad if you look at what is going on in here.

$110 every week? Whew, I'm glad Peter made it! My family of 4 have lived under that budget for quite some time VOLUNTARILY! True, you can't have fresh vegetables and fruit every meal. Sometimes you have to buy in bulk and cut it up. You might actually have to (gasp) look for a sale! You might have to not have a desert after every meal and not have a 12 pack of soda in your fridge at all times. DRINK WATER! I think I could live quite well on $440 a month. I have spent about $250 a month for about 6 years. If a starving man asks for food and he refuses rice, beans, stew, and water for a meal he isn't starving.

The Food Stamp Challenge and Food Stamp Facts I think what is so great about this Challenge is the opportunity for us to have a conversation about not only the short comings of the program but also it’s strengths. While the benefits of the food stamp program are modest it provides those households who access it more resources than those households who do not access it.

One of the things we have failed to talk about in this experiment is that those who are participating in the challenge are using the amount of money they would get if they received the maximum allotment. Most households do not receive the maximum allotment; in fact only 15% of the food stamp households in Utah have no earned income. If a household has earned or unearned income that reduces the amount of food stamp benefits they receive. The Food Stamp Program was never intended to cover the entire cost of a household food budget, that assumption however does not take into account the rising costs of raising a family and low-come families have to pay rent, pay rising fuel costs and other necessary things like non-food items. A lot of folks who are on fixed income, either disability or social security, receive the minimum benefit, which is $10, that amount has not been adjusted for decades.

In terms of education there are education programs available to those folks, Utah State University, through the Extension Service has nutrition classes as well as cooking classes, I think the challenge for a lot of families is making the time outside of work to go. Research has shown that girls who are in food insecure households that participate in federal nutrition programs are less likely to be obese.

There is definitely more nuance to the issues of poverty and hunger than are being captured in the Food Stamp Challenge, but it does offer an opportunity to talk about the importance of the program and program improvements, whether that is adjusting the amount of benefits households get to reflect the increasing cost of living or streamlining the program to make it easier to administer.

Did you know?
Utah’s food insecurity rate is 14.5 %, the 6th highest in the nation.
Utah’s food insecurity rate with hunger or very low foods security is 5.1%, an increase, the 4th highest in the nation.

Despite the declines in the years after welfare reform in the late 1990s, there has been a steady increase in the Food Stamp caseload in recent years.

The average Food Stamp Household is 2.44 people.
The average benefit for March 2007 was 209.31.
52.1% of the Food Stamp caseload are children, or 68,145 children benefit from the Food Stamp Program.
In Utah, the average benefit is a modest 96.3 cents per meal per person, nationally it is $1.05.
13% of Food Stamp households have a member who is elderly.
23% of Food Stamp households have a member who is disabled.
Each Food Stamp dollar spent in Utah generates nearly $2.00 in economic activity.
Each month there is $11,000,000 in Food Stamp benefits issued in Utah.
Nearly 1/3 of households have earned income, note % of elderly and disabled households.

YIKES That's A LOT of money for a month. . .$440 dollars a month??? What's the problem with that? If you are needing a helping hand, it should be temporary anyway. I know people who get food stamps AND assistance from the church. Their pantrys are STOCKED. I work hard full-time and can't fill my pantry like that. There's somethign wrong with the mindset that everything should be free. It should be there to help with food, not be the only source of their food.

I just WISH I could eat as well as some of the welfare bums do!Im in Wal-Mart,in the so called express lanes,behind an obvious illegal alien,and her 4 anchor babies,pushing 3 whole carts jammed full of steaks,crab legs,name brand stuff,too!She didnt care that the express lane was for 20 items,or less only,either!I guess she thought that meant 20 CARTLOADS,or less only!Oh,by the way,,she was about 8 1/2 months into anchor baby #5!